The concept of faith eludes me
I don't understand how people can believe in something without solid evidence or even when there is solid evidence against whatever they believe in
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Belief in stuff without evidence is something we humans are predisposed to. It helped our ancestors to survive. However, in this day and age more and more of us are valuing evidence over faith.
I don't get how people automatically jump to "it's supernatural!" every time they have an encounter they can't explain. When I hear something weird, my mind immediately comes up with a variety of explanations. It doesn't seem to be the same for many other people.
e.g. My colleague believes in ghosts because when her husband's grandmother died, on the day before the funeral, they heard her room door close. To me, possible explanations could be wind, a difference in air pressure creating a suction effect that pulled the door close, their dog (yes they have one).... To her, that's irrefutable proof ghosts exist. I cannot fathom someone's mind automatically assuming a supernatural explanation.
People's minds like to correlate coincidental events and assign meaning to them I guess...
I don't get how people automatically jump to "it's supernatural!" every time they have an encounter they can't explain. When I hear something weird, my mind immediately comes up with a variety of explanations. It doesn't seem to be the same for many other people.
e.g. My colleague believes in ghosts because when her husband's grandmother died, on the day before the funeral, they heard her room door close. To me, possible explanations could be wind, a difference in air pressure creating a suction effect that pulled the door close, their dog (yes they have one).... To her, that's irrefutable proof ghosts exist. I cannot fathom someone's mind automatically assuming a supernatural explanation.
People's minds like to correlate coincidental events and assign meaning to them I guess...
Faith doesn't really mean belief from my perspective. It's more like trust.
Prove you're not a product of my imagination
yeah that's what an hallucination would say
yeah that's what an hallucination would say
I am yet to see any solid evidence that suggests I am not a computer generated avatar of another beings ego... If you can answer this same question for your own self, then you are in a better position to truly understand that existence requires the pre-requisite of faith in some manner.
What i think you mean more specifically is the distinction between blind faith (no impending evidence) and faith (impending evidence), even here the lines are not as clean as we like them to be.
What i think you mean more specifically is the distinction between blind faith (no impending evidence) and faith (impending evidence), even here the lines are not as clean as we like them to be.
Holocaust denial.
Dinosaur belief.
Both will use "evidence".
Dinosaur belief.
Both will use "evidence".
Of course you would compare people who believe that dinosaurs once existed with Holocaust deniers.
Both "use evidence".
And you LOVE "evidence", dontcha?
And you LOVE "evidence", dontcha?
Not as much as you hate evidence. Because nothing is a greater threat to the existence of your God as evidence. Oh, do you know who else uses evidence? The people who oppose Holocaust deniers. Fancy that.
Because apparently Holocaust DENIERS *DO NOT* "use evidence", riiight?
Do they actually though? What is some of the evidence which is used to deny the Holocaust? And since you are so opposed to evidence, do you also oppose evidence that the Holocaust did happen? Do you oppose the use of evidence to prove everything?
"People speeches, details about gas usage, etc."
All PRESENTED as "hardcore EVIDENCE" - yet contradicting every OTHER evidence that still debunks it.
So it's "evidence that PROVES something" against "evidence that disproves that same something".
How can THAT be, ya know - evidence being both supportive and contradictory to the same event, lol.
Maybe it's because "evidence" isn't TOO RELIABLE to begin with, ya know?
No, you don't KNOW - you don't even TRY KNOWING.
And that is the worst part about YOU.
All PRESENTED as "hardcore EVIDENCE" - yet contradicting every OTHER evidence that still debunks it.
So it's "evidence that PROVES something" against "evidence that disproves that same something".
How can THAT be, ya know - evidence being both supportive and contradictory to the same event, lol.
Maybe it's because "evidence" isn't TOO RELIABLE to begin with, ya know?
No, you don't KNOW - you don't even TRY KNOWING.
And that is the worst part about YOU.
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Here is a loaded question. How about if I said, I've seen and talked to who I believe was God?
He once just walked into a place I was just starting to work at. I thought he was just a guy that worked there (as I haven't met many co-workers yet at the time). He had a bald head and a beard (like Santa Clause only thin) and wore a 3-piece black suit. He asked how I was doing, and if I was settling in ok. I told him sure, but I just got there. He said that's good and handed me a religious pamphlet and left. Later, I found that guy wasn't anyone that worked in the building, and the door he came through couldn't be opened from the side he came through from without a key. I don't think he was a witness or Mormon because he never preached anything to me, just asked how I was doing. I'm sure I still have the pamphlet he gave me somewhere.
Would you accept that the experience (as well as others) made me believe in God or would you still demand more proof (thus making the point I stated below)?
How about if I showed you the pamphlet (if I can find it, cause yeah I doubt that would make any difference)?
I admit it's not the most profound religious experience I could have had, but it was enough for me. Why do I think God visited me that day? I don't know. It was my dream job, one that I wanted for a very long time. I guess he was just showing me, it was he who got it for me.
He once just walked into a place I was just starting to work at. I thought he was just a guy that worked there (as I haven't met many co-workers yet at the time). He had a bald head and a beard (like Santa Clause only thin) and wore a 3-piece black suit. He asked how I was doing, and if I was settling in ok. I told him sure, but I just got there. He said that's good and handed me a religious pamphlet and left. Later, I found that guy wasn't anyone that worked in the building, and the door he came through couldn't be opened from the side he came through from without a key. I don't think he was a witness or Mormon because he never preached anything to me, just asked how I was doing. I'm sure I still have the pamphlet he gave me somewhere.
Would you accept that the experience (as well as others) made me believe in God or would you still demand more proof (thus making the point I stated below)?
How about if I showed you the pamphlet (if I can find it, cause yeah I doubt that would make any difference)?
I admit it's not the most profound religious experience I could have had, but it was enough for me. Why do I think God visited me that day? I don't know. It was my dream job, one that I wanted for a very long time. I guess he was just showing me, it was he who got it for me.
I think in particular because of human imagination and delusions are a part of the human condition. You could have dreamt of the interaction after receiving the pamphlet. Or there is simple mistake. Maybe you weren't at your workplace but misremembered.
There are numerous non supernatural means by which what you claimed took place. Why immediately jump to "it was god" asides from the subject matter?
Why is it thus does not occur to everyone?
There are numerous non supernatural means by which what you claimed took place. Why immediately jump to "it was god" asides from the subject matter?
Why is it thus does not occur to everyone?
I remember it clearly because it was my first day at a new job as a manager, and I thought it was odd that someone would hand me a religious pamphlet at work. At the time, I didn't really think anything of it, until I found that the man didn't work for the company (nor any office in the building) later that day. Also there were a lot of other strange things occurred after the encounter, as well as other events that solidified my beliefs. However discussing those details is beside the point. My point was people generally are unable accept my beliefs no matter what I say or what I experienced to justify them, thus it's pointless to talk/argue about it as the experience only means something to me.
A lot of what you're saying I've heard from others on these very boards but for different denominations and faiths.
And it's not like believers don't proselytize.
It's always vague and personal anecdotes. But if you don't expect your claims to be believed by anyone else, why should you?
And it's not like believers don't proselytize.
It's always vague and personal anecdotes. But if you don't expect your claims to be believed by anyone else, why should you?
It's the same analogy I made earlier of extraterrestrials. When you've experienced something yourself, you can no longer deny its existence no matter what others may think. And I'm no Bible thumper, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I respect that you can believe what you want to believe, I just ask for the same respect. I remember one (non-Christian) person once telling me it's my duty as a Christian speak out to save the eternal souls of others. I responded with no it isn't, that's on them to do that for themselves. It's not like knowing/believing made me a better person (it didn't BTW). I do however state my position on the topic when it's brought up.
However as you pointed out the Bedtz sphere lends the claim of extraterrestrial evidence. It may not be conclusive but it is much more substantial than hearsay.
How do you know your situation wasn't a delusion?
The fact that people suffer from delusions has to me always been a strong counter to the personal experience argument.
For that matter I'm not saying you didn't experience it but without corroborating evidence how do "I" know it happened in reality?
How do you know your situation wasn't a delusion?
The fact that people suffer from delusions has to me always been a strong counter to the personal experience argument.
For that matter I'm not saying you didn't experience it but without corroborating evidence how do "I" know it happened in reality?
It wasn't a delusion. I've had my head checked for other things I've seen, mentally and medically, just to rule that out. Plus, I'm a programmer, I always try to look at things logically, and rule things out systematically.
As for making you believe, I don't really need you to believe what I've experienced. Just respect, that I believe it.
As for making you believe, I don't really need you to believe what I've experienced. Just respect, that I believe it.
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One must first define and distinguish "faith" as it has more than one definition.
What you're describing is religious faith.
Be sure to note that as people from what I've already read are quick to conflate the faith and religious faith. Especially in context to falsely equate contrary positions.
Example: "atheism = theism"
What you're describing is religious faith.
Be sure to note that as people from what I've already read are quick to conflate the faith and religious faith. Especially in context to falsely equate contrary positions.
Example: "atheism = theism"
Lest we forget that particular leap of the imagination 
For me, the belief in an ultimate justice after death that holds us all accountable is as comforting as it is asinine. I like to believe that people who do wrongs in this world can't get away with it in the next, but it is just a belief, after all. It might be irrational, but it makes life just that bit easier for me than believing that these people do get away with it after all.
Though I fail to see the "solid evidence" against God - any God - existing. If we were able to see God, we would probably not be able to comprehend God, and dismiss it as a trick of the light or something like that.
Though I fail to see the "solid evidence" against God - any God - existing. If we were able to see God, we would probably not be able to comprehend God, and dismiss it as a trick of the light or something like that.
Well because it gives them a sense of hope. As long as they're not using it to convert of scare everyone else to oblivion, I don't mind.
Wanna know why I believe in fantasies? Because it gives me hope.I love to take a good laugh at celestial being silly as people ...and lion dogs. Because who wouldn't want a pair of lion-dogs? If that doesn't work for you that's fine.
I don't understand why others have a problem with it or even care? I wonder if it's because they constantly fail to convince everyone to believe they as they do, or maybe they foolishly believe they can in the first place...Maybe they do not have a choice, automatically having a "triggered"emotional response due to they anger they sport for merely knowing that no matter what they do, there will always be individuals who will have faith, religion and certain beliefs that things that others do not.
Oh, well. It matters not. The world goes on.
there's a philosophy out there that describes and goes in debth about nihilism
I"m sure you haven't read any of it
its why you are here, attentionwhoring about it, doing the exact opposite a convinced nihilist would
I"m sure you haven't read any of it
its why you are here, attentionwhoring about it, doing the exact opposite a convinced nihilist would