"Western medicine has only been around for about 300 years where as herbal remedies have been around for over 4 thousand years. "
>i don´t like to call it western medicine anyway, since we also have herbal medicine used in the west and there is also homeopathy, that was invented in the west as well. Apart from that...what do you think western medicine is based on. Dividing herbal medicine and western medicine so harshly makes no sense to me.
"Doctors only treat illnesses, with no intention to cure." > whoah...why be so mean. That is not true at all.
"Honestly if a doctor has been treating you for the same ailment for the last ten years, then maybe it is time to try something else." > Most doctors i know of encourage you to try new things if one treatment doesn´t work. Be it herbal medicine or acupuncture. Where does your hate for doctors come from. Do you only use herbal medicine in your life. No vaccines, no ...nothing?
"As a herbalist myself it is frustrating how stubborn some people can be, even my own family. My Mother who is suffering form menopause, refuses to drink sage tea because it tastes funny." > What has that to do with western medicine. It is not like doctors tell you: "Don´t drink tea. It will never help you". Literally everyone i know drinks tea when sick. sage tea is not even something fancy. I literally just typed in what gynecologists say one should take apart from hormones it says herbal medicines like sage, black cohosh etc.
What do i think?
Aspirin-Willow bark Ibuprofen- inspired by aspirin structure Digitalis Atropin morphin Hypericum perforatum is prescribed against depression.
They started to extract the drug out of the plants. Modify them so they work better/loose side effects/ are easier to be ingested... Model other drugs after the structure of already existing ones and experiment with them. Now they are modelling them also after the receptors they have to intercat wit.
But all of that started with nature.
There are tons of plant-derived drugs still used nowadays and prescribed by doctors. And a lot of drugs are based on that.
It is just. When you buy a drug the concentration is written on it.
If you use plants you need knowledge. The drug concentrations in plants are different during diefferent periods and in different parts of the plant. If it is just sage.. Ok. But if you are dealing with Atropin, Digitalis or Aconite it can get dangerous. Plants can be really dangerous. And there are always does people that are like:
"fuck it ia am not buying a plant medicine in a shop, if i can get it for free in the wild" and there are also those people who can´t tell wild garlic and autumn crocus apart (No idea how they manage that...)
Just wanted to point it out:
Nowadays people seem to forget that plants can be fucking dangerous too and "more does NOT help more" Regarding any drug...actually regarding pretty much every substance.
In the end the thing i don´t understand is why you act as if modern medicine and herbal medicine don´t go together at all. modern medicine just took a step forward and started inventing drug instead of solely relying on already existing ones. I don´t see the competition.
The only thing i see many doctors "hate" is homeopathy. For a reason. Still know a ton of people using it anyway.
Hmm... interesting... I don't know where to begin my reply to you.
I feel like I have no grounds to assault you or support you, your message was super natural.
Anyway I suppose my hatred for doctors purely comes from people when they refuse a herbal remedy stating, "I only trust my doctor" which really pisses me off when I can see someone is suffering but they stubbornly refuse to try anything out.
I blame western medicine for this reaction and I suppose I could be unjustly accusing them for the reaction I receive from people. Who know why people are so afraid of trying out a possible cure.
Still I have seen examples of western medicine treat but not cure illnesses that have been cured long long long ago and yet in our modern age we continue to use treatments instead of cures.
Asthma was one of the conditions I was astounded to find had a herbal cure that works. I was dealing with a smoker at the time that I discovered it(read about it). The smoker had asthma and agreed to try out my herbal remedy partly because it required him to smoke something(lol). There was a bit of trial and error being that I had never tested it before, on myself or any other, but after about 2 weeks we had figured it out together. After which he was cured of asthma totally and utterly.
Snake bites can also be treated/cured with herbs which again astounded me. Considering people die from venom I found it strange that there are herbal cures.
My fathers Psoriasis is now slowly recovering. He eventually caved in to my suggestions and we have noticed two big boosts to his skin health. One is that the psoriasis isn't so scabby any more, and it heals faster now. It still refuses to go away but at least my father isn't spending all that money on treatment that wasn't working(for about 5 years). The treatment was actually making his skin thinner which causes more psoriasis(it starts out from bruises and injuries and then just gets worse from there)
My Mother is taking western medicine, but like you said it is derived from a herb which is quite ironically sage Yep.... she is doing alright now
I suppose the only thing that can be said about western medicine is that it is safer. There are a lot of herbal remedies that are quite dangerous even when you are experienced in what you are doing. For instance that asthma cure uses a poison. However I've experimented with that poison so much that I have either built up an immunity or the internet and every book I've read lied about how poisonous it is.
i would like an example for something that has been cured long long ago and isn´t now.
With cured of asthma totally and utterly, do you mean, he doesn´t have to take the medicine anymore? What did you give him. Especially since it is a poison. Poisons are a great interest of mine (don´t get me wrong...not to kill somebody). To quote Paracelsus regarding this: "Poison is in everything, and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy." I took a toxicology course in university...one of my favourites by far. ( I am studying biology)
Well when I mean cured I mean the definition of cured. As in no further treatment is required as the problem ,that once was, no longer exists.
We used the 'thorn apple' plant. Drying the big leaves of the plant as the small leaves are deadly poisonous and get less so poisonous as they age. Drying them out further reduced the amount of poison as the poisonous element is an alcohol based component/compound.
What we actually discovered is that though the internet and many books say that the plant causes permanent nerve damage, it is really only temporary damage that can recover as long as you cease treatment. However in order to cure the asthma and over sensitivity of the Bronchiole, we needed to cause a bit of permanent damage
Yes I agree about poisons. When I discovered that most poisons were used as herbal treatments, It broaden my tool belt of plants that I can use. For example most poisons cause diarrhoea which eventually kills a person, but heavily diluted it helps relieve a person from constipation.
Thorn apple is notorious for being one of the most deadliest poisons EVER!!!! Yet I'm quite disappointed in the claims since it is hardly poisonous at all! I've bitten pieces off the plant, eaten them, chewed bulbs of seeds, sniffed the leaves which cording to the internet will land you in a coma. NOTHING! Either I'm immortal or the internet is a big fat liar. What is really disconcerting is that I read the same thing in a lot of books. It sounds like all these authors aren't doing any research in what they claim is poisonous. However despite what I say and claim, I do know it does cause a slight numbing sensation when applied topically. it is just you would have to apply a hell of a lot of it in concentrated form to have any long lasting affect
Of course that plant is tested. Just not every author tests. Ever heard of using sources. You can't just kill make proper toxicological tests for every fucking book. Do you know how many books are out there, that talk about toxic plants.
You probably don't even have an idea about the requirements for such a experimemt to be significant.
Just making a significant experiment regarding leaf growth in relation to lighting is a pain in the ass already and costs money and time. And that is way simpler. When it comes to getting e.g. The LD50 (rat) of a toxin it is way worse. That is hundreds of dead animals. You don't repeat that.
And since you can't experiment on humans...you have to get footage from hospitals etc.
The experience of a single person is pretty much worth nothing in science.
It is simply unnecessary. There is enough sources for that already.
You are being silly. This is like expecting everyone who writes about the earth being round to travel around it.
Claiming no one has died from it seems a bit...idk. How do you know. The only thing one can say is that there are no cases in humans reported. Though i heard there were some.
The only cases I've read about with regards to the thorn apple and human experiments is as follows:
British soldiers mistook it for spinach(how the fuck I know right) and where found later playing with their own faecal matter, the affects only lasted 11 days after which they were perfectly fine.
Ladies in France used to put their attackers into comas(rape) purely by chance because they used to use the thorn apple leaves to plump up their breasts(I suppose they gained some sort of an immunity)
When western medicine was still developing and they had yet made anaesthetic, they used to use an oil decoction of the plant which made patients compliant during surgery but feel every bit of the pain. The patients later forgot about the pain. The reason for this is that thorn apple can be used to brain wash people(hence why they were compliant) and it can also erase peoples memories. Look up zombie cucumber if you need some research pointing to this
Later when more advances in medicine took off they found two elements in the plant. Both alcohol based. The one makes a person compliant and the other makes them forget. I believe they used this for some other not to legal human experiments.
Then of course you get the normal research which showed the plant can be used to numb the skin when applied topically.
Because they work? Herbs help the body strengthen itself, nourish, and relax you. With my illness I couldn’t go by the days without herbal treatments and the smell of eucalyptus (which I know isn’t a herb)
So I have a chronic illness, and have been seeing various doctors for it over the course of nearly three years. Everyone is quick to tell me there is no cure, but are willing to give me pills to 'ease my pain' or 'reduce a symptom.' I find that all of these meds make everything worse, even causing me to spend sporadic nights in the ER. So at this point, I mostly rely on CBD oils, teas, and other herbal remedies. I've grown up surrounded by gardeners, botanists, and other people that swear by herbs, so I've never seen anyone set against herbs apart from doctors. I asked one if Ginkgo Biloba would help, and she acted like I just asked for heroine.
I have Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome as well as tinnitus. I live in the USA, but I've spent a good part of my life near/in intentional communities. I've been having lousy luck as far as doctors and treatments go, but the herb issue seems ridiculous!
I'm not sure about the tinnitus? Is it a mental problem or is there actually a physical sound or rather ear problem causing these sounds?
If it is a mental problem, strangely, the Brazilian pepper helps with that too. It will make mental problems far worse at first however, before curing them totally and utterly without remorse lol. I used to hear voices which the Brazilian pepper probably caused to leave for good, I'm not sure.
The pepper was also at one point not allowed into mental homes(since it is used as an additive in black pepper) but I don't know if they still have these rules in place. considering it can cure most mental problems caused by electrical discharge, which is a long list of possible mental problems ranging from OCD, Tourettes, schizophrenia and even epilepsy, this plant really should be made into a pill.
However such is the nature of western medicine. If it cures they will not monopolise on it because there is no profit in a cure, only in treatment. For example, asthma has been cured many many many times in the past but modern medicine merely treats it and tries to cure it with steroids which stunt growth and don't always work.
I wish you luck and let me know if the Brazilian pepper fails to work. I'm not sure if I will have any other suggestions but since I'm constantly investing my time in herbs, who knows
I'll definitely see if I can get my hands on some! Thank you! Wikipedia never seems to do things justice: POTS also alters my ability to thermoregulate, and the blood circulation gets messed up. If I stand too quickly, I'll get dizzy and possibly pass out. (Lots of fun during classes.) Since not enough blood is getting to my brain, it also alters my processing speed and memory. The tinnitus seems to be a mental thing, we've done all sorts of scans. Hopefully the pepper can help with that, I'm tired of wearing headphones everywhere!
Yeah I read that Wikipedia article years ago, it has a lot of inaccurate information.
I believe the one thing I read said that it is fatally toxic to birds, which is an obvious lie considering the plant is spread by birds in the first place.
Anyway I really do wish you the best and keep me informed on how it all goes. If the dizzy passing out has anything to do with blood pressure you might consider eating a little ginger every day, it increases blood pressure.
I actually wanted to ask someone about that because what I found is that when ever I eat anything that increases blood pressure, my eye sight improves. I just wonder how much ginger you would have to eat to no longer need glasses, lol it would probably cost to much
I'll defiantly make that part of my next experiment
I'm currently working on a time pausing herb. yeah I know that sounds crazy and in truth I only recently discovered the herb myself.
it changes your perception of time while at the same time increasing your reaction speed. basically slowing down time.
so far I'm quite disappointed in it because it has odd and unpredictable affects. like sounds suddenly sounding muffled, the perception of time making walking feeling like you are never getting to your destination and sometimes not working at all.
For someone who understand even some basics of Traditional Chinese Medicine which is herb based medications.
Without fully understanding the cause of illness, and administering the wrong medication can be fatal.
Chrysanthemum is "cooling" or strong in alkaline, it has great effect against "heaty" symptoms caused by inflammation from eating excessive potato chips or too "acidic" with high meat/ fried food diet.
It clears the toxin from the lung and liver, but has adverse effect when consumed excessively. and cannot be administered to people with body that is "cool" in nature.
Using Chrysanthemum with American Ginseng help to cap the "over cooling" nature of the herb that reduces side effect and risk of overdose.
Tienqi is a herb that is "blood livening" or blood thinning, it can relieve symptoms of blood clotting and blood vessel choking due to high cholesterol, however pregnant woman can be induced miscarriage even by smelling the aroma of the herb boiling in water. Hence it is a high risk medication.
Same level of severity as using anti-clot medication, people who just undergo surgery or have wound that is healing should also refrain from using it.
There are instances two polar opposite illness can present the same/ nearly identical symptom, which without proper diagnosis, taking the polar opposite medication can make the illness worse.
The face inspection and asking about the illness is more of superficial observation,
Yellow fats lumps around the eyes indicates high cholesterol, pressing the fingernail and seeing how fast the color return inspects the viscosity of the blood.
There is pulse taking that would further increase the accuracy, as well as inspection of stool and urine.
Generally a yellowish urine kind of indicate poor hydration, and the person could be on the side of being "heaty".
Also the meridian system is observed, since different location and "pressure points" that is typically cavities and depression on parts of the body that is usually a weak point and stress tend to build up there.
These meridians seems to be running along vein and arteries route, some along tendons and ligamants, pain or discomfort on certain areas can reflect injury or even poor blood circulation (flow of chi and blood) that could indicate weakened organ or underlying illness.
If a person is complaining about certain part of body being painful, it could mean the corresponding organ is being affected, for example excessive use of computer typically led to the "Hand Greater Yin Lung Meridian" being subjected to stress and injury,
leading to cough or other respiratory related illness due to work-induced meridian injury that affects blood circulation to the respiratory system.
Diet wise would also be asked, since a lot of food themselves have mild to strong effect that would affect the situations.
And a whole list of taboo food for situations.
Eating yam, pumpkin and crab/seashells/ shrimps is generally a bad idea for healing wound/ post surgery recovery,
While eating tomato (anti oxidant and vitamin C) is encouraged for healing wound.
since yam and pumpkin have sap which is considered "toxic" nature food that can cause wound to heal slower.
crab and shrimp is kind of same issue.
Eating pumpkin and crab is a big taboo as this itself might give a person rashes or trigger major skin rotting due to the excessive "toxin"
Egg and Chicken is nutritious, but can cause "heat" and "wind" to be trapped in the body, Chicken that is left overnight is generally advised to be avoided as it causes "wind" to be trapped in the body, that might cause joint pain and even a person to fall sick.
Overnight rice is given the same notorious status as overnight chicken, since the fungus in the rice are activated when cooked, bacteria can be killed by high temperature, fungus remains
when left untouched for a long period of time the fungus level can increase to a dangerous level causing "wind" or even severe case food poisoning.
Ginger is known for ability to purge the "wind" as such dietary "suppliment" chicken are often cooked with ginger to counteract the effect of the wind while maximizing the potential of the nutrients.
Eating excessive fried food is known to led to increase of "heat" in the body, that is kind of related to acidity level in the body, meaning ulceration is more likely to occur, if left unchecked it could led to cancer developing.
What is your understanding of the five elements theory
I only recently, like last year, discovered that generating elements are not the same as elements that help the body release what is generated
Pungent foods make your lungs generate more mucus, but it takes bitter foods before that mucus is released. Sour foods make your liver produce more bile, but it takes a pungent food before your body releases that bile. Salty foods make your body store more water, but it takes sweet foods to make your body release that water
I wonder if you could offer me some further insight, especially when it comes to poisons
For example snakes and venom is considered to be of the poison type 'fire', which means it over powers the heart and negatively impacts the lungs and liver.
However how would you go about then treating this poison?
My idea was that you would take the excess energy way from the element of fire by supplying more energy to earth, because fire turns into earth. Also giving more energy to wood because wood is burnt by fire to produce earth. However I do not know if this is the actual case?
I know in hospitals when they do not have the venom anti agent, they give the patient a lot of salt and sugar to help them naturally get rid of the poison. However I would like a great understanding of how poisons work so I can use that understanding to create anti agents against all poisons given the situation.
For example if the poison is of the element of metal, meaning excess power given to lungs, what would the treatment be?
There is a 24 hours rotation of organ circulation, that kind of rotate the elements around the clock These meridian run at the peak during certain hours of the day and if you are planning to recover or let the organs rest, there is optimal time.
Do note that these meridians kind of run sequentially so there is a pattern to follow going from Yin to Yang and alternating.
(Heaviest Yin and Yang) 11am - 1pm Hand Lesser Yin Heart Meridian (Fire) 1pm - 3pm Hand Greater Yang Small Intestine Meridian (Fire)
3pm - 5pm Foot Greater Yang Bladder Meridian (Water) 5pm - 7pm Foot Lesser Yin Kidney Meridian (Water)
(Secondary Yin and Yang)
7pm - 9pm Hand Jue-Yin Pericardium Meridian (Fire) 9pm - 11pm Hand Lesser Yang Triple-Burner Meridian (Fire)
11pm - 1am Foot Lesser Yang Gallbladder Meridian (Wood) 1am - 3am Foot Jue-Yin Liver Meridian (Wood)
(Weakest Yin and Yang) 3am - 5am Hand Greater Yin Lung Meridian (Metal) 5am - 7am Hand Yang-Ming Large Intestine Meridian (Metal)
7am - 9am Foot Yang-Ming Stomach Meridian (Earth) 9am - 11am Foot Greater Yin Spleen Meridian (Earth)
this 24 hour cycle basically loop itself over again.
It seems the elements is also related to emotions like happy, sadness or anger. Sadness hurt the stomach, anger harm the liver.
For poison with element of metal (Affecting lungs)
It seems the treatment is rather simple by adhering to certain diet pattern.
Also it seems balancing the work flow of the organs is important, if the lung is overpowered and the other organs are unable to keep up, it would cause someone to fall sick.
Tuning and balancing the organs seems to be what most herbal medication is about.
Also there is elemental studies from Buddhism for Earth, Water, Fire and Wind, which a person's body is kind of like Earth, going out of synchronization with the bigger environment and disharmony in the elements usually led to sickness.
Emotions affecting the organs, some of the medication method involves meditation and finding "inner peace" just so the mind feels less disturbed thus the body fall sick lesser. Both Taoist (Yin Yang and 5 elements) and Buddhist have some degree of meditation involved to calm a person's emotion and stay "chill".
Anxiety and Depression, or worrying too much often led to irritable bowel syndromes and gastric related illness, while modern gastric medication has effect treating the symptoms, the cause lies in a person's personality and recent encounter.
This is the few rare instances where physical pain is caused by mental suffering, the cause of the illness is not physical but mental.
Hmm... not really what I was going for but it helped a bit
For instance, I never new that the nails and fingers are the reflection of the liver. However I did know that the liver controls the thickness of your blood.
What I want to know is if you are poisoned, where someone intends to kill you with a toxin, if you know which organ is being targeted or which element the poison is
What do you do in order not to die from this poison?
My example was a snake bite
All snake venom is of the element- fire but depending on the snake it is either of yin or yang nature.
Yin means that the poison makes a big impact which later fades and gets less worse with time. You might die from the initial impact of the poison, damaging or destroying your organs, but if you survive that then the poison will grow weaker and you will live.
Yang being a poison that takes a longer time to kill you but the longer it is in your body the more damage it does. Alternatively there are a lot of yang poisons that are incurable, meaning once you have been poisoned you will die no matter what you try and do and it could take days to kill you.
For example of both poisons....
Element of wood poison will make you expel yourself to death. If it is of yin nature you will vomit to death, if it is of yang nature you will defecate yourself to death.
However if you know this poison is of the element of wood and that it is of yin nature, what can you do to prevent dying?
Since wood means the liver is strengthened, it is over powering the liver which impacts the spleen directly and the kidneys indirectly. It also gives more power to the heart.
However the question still remains?
Do you treat this poison by using the element of mental, which would expel the power of liver or would that make it worse? Releasing more wood nature into the body
This is my question, I have been trying to research it for a while but there are very little answers. I hope you can help shed some light on this topic
If you don't use USP standard herbal pills, there's no telling what you're ingesting or even that you're getting an effective product. Some companies voluntarily commit to a USP standard and have the label and testing to prove it. Many do not and testing their products shows adulterations, and sometimes even pharmaceutical compounds. Like pharmaceutical grade steroids found in a Chinese herbal product. Or sometimes some herbal companies cut their herbal pills with non-effective parts of the plant, and not every pill has the same amount of active ingredient. Like throwing in the stem and leaves when the active ingredient is in the roots. All this does is add bulk, but cuts down on effectiveness. That's why USP standardization is important, because it tests active ingredient per pill and makes sure it is evenly spread out. I don't know how it's like in your country, but at least this is how it is in the USA. Do you have a regulatory body for this sort of stuff where you're from?
Also, herbal medicine is not a panacea for everything. If you eat McDonald's every day, taking an herb isn't going to undo the damage you do to your body. Diet and lifestyle play a HUGE role in your health. Getting the right nutrients so that your body can work in tip top shape is important too.
I do find herbal medicine fascinating. I've tried Ginko myself to see if it helped me study or improved my brain function. Not sure if it helped my brain, it's a difficult thing to measure, but it sure as heck helped me with menstrual cramps. Didn't have any, it was awesome not being in pain every month. Unfortunately it also made me bleed more when I cut my finger. A lot of herbs thin the blood. After gushing a ton of blood when I volunteered to get stabbed in the finger to test the PT/INR machine, I stopped the herb. Sadly, the PT/INR machine was still broken and I couldn't test my clotting time, but I'm sure the result would have been bad anyway. My coworker was staring at me because she wasn't expecting so much blood to gush out of my finger. And I swear, I didn't break the machine! I might go back to Ginko, maybe but not daily. Maybe start the week before menstruation, then stop when it's over. Make sure I'm not eating or taking anything else that thins the blood. Still want to do more research on long term effects of taking the herb first though and learn the pathophysiology. Did you know Omega-3s also thin the blood? Like fish oil? Doctor's tell you to not take it before surgery because it will cause more bleeding, which is the last thing you want if you're undergoing surgery. That's also why you're not supposed to take herbs before surgery because A LOT of them also have blood-thinning effects. Ginger, cinnamon, peppermint, oregano, cayenne, garlic and Turmeric do, and that's not the complete list! Sometimes it seems like every time I look up an herb or even a beloved spice, it has blood-thinning properties.
I have more to say, but it's late and I need to wrap up my rant right now. Maybe I'll comment back at a later time. Also, if I had to choose between Digoxin and Foxglove, I'll take Digoxin any day ok, stopping now
I am not at all in that camp but I think most of the pressure against herbal remedies is rooted in the lack of accountability. When you use herbal cures, you are basically on your own. You have to trust that you know what you're doing and that the people offering the remedies know what they're doing (or at least selling you want they claim to be selling because I've heard a lot of herbal capsules are filled with rice). With commercial drugs, at least they are supposed to be tested by a standard.
I cure simple illness by herbs like cold, stomach pain a.s.o. Sometimes I try to treat bladder infection or headache with herbs and teas, but when I notice, it doesn't work, I take stronger medicine. And yes, I believe my doctors. When they say I have an inflammation and need antibiotics, I do it. Getting rid of inflammation can be dangerous. A good doctor prescribes as little as possible, but as much as necessary.You can't force people to take herbs. It's their own decision.