Struggling with toxic fandom


The-Future1's avatar
So recently news came out about the snyder cut finally being released after the fandom relentlessly pestered warner bros into releasing it. The behavior they displayed was irritating at best and actively harmful at worst with many toxic fans harassing snyder critics and executives as well as villifying joss whedon (even though what happened with justice league wasn't his fault) This is not the first time a studio cowtowed to toxic fan demands. Many of the decisions made in the rise of skywalker were in response to hostile fan backlash including reducing rose to a glorified extra after rose's actress kellie marie tran was bullied and harassed off social media. And to add another kick to the nuts, Ruby Rose quit being Batwoman which means the toxic assholes who ate her alive (metaphorically) for being gay are going to rthink the universe is rewarding them for their bad behavior.

I've always had a massive problem with toxic fandom and their actions over the years in general but now I believe we're entering a era where toxic fandom is actively being rewarded for its bad behavior. This is beyond frightening to me because I've always believed that if you do bad things, bad things will happen to you. But in the case of toxic fandom (along with trump rising to power), the universe has shown that if you do bad things, you'll get everything you've ever wanted and that's an absolutely horrible message to send. I mean if kids discovered this, then more of them will grow up to become monsters which is something the world really doesn't need.

What frustrates me is that every time I talk about this problem is that whenever I talk about this problem to someone, they either say "just ignore them" at best or "you're just a filthy whiny sjw so go kill yourself" or some other horrible thing. But the rise of skywalker and the snyder cut debacle clearly demonstrate that toxic fandom is more powerful than ever and that for all the talk people make of fighting against toxic fandom, they are more than willing to succumb to their demands out of fear. That's not fan love, that's terrorism. This is bad for everyone. It's bad for the studios since it just makes them look like cowardly spineless worms, it's bad for sane fans whose names will be forever smeared by the toxic fans, and it's bad for art because it stifles creativity. We constantly complain about overly controlling committees, but toxic fans are starting to turn into overly controlling committees.

With how 2020 has been so far with the coronavirus pandemic, the Australian forests burning on fire, kobe bryant's premature death, and trump using the pandemic to justify his unbridled racism, another incident of toxic fandom being rewarded for it's deplorable behavior just reminds me how powerless I am against this cruel unfair universe. 

What do you think I should do about this and please don't use this thread as an excuse to antagonize and villify me.  

     
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Suthriel's avatar
It seems, you accuse normal fans as being toxic, while they just want their beloved fandom to be, what it was for a very long and successful time: NOT a platform for any kind of agenda and politics, that some higher ups want to shove in.
And one reason, because they became successful in the first place, was, because they didn´t care about real world politics, and were for EVERYONE from the beginning.
With that those fans also get accused, that they excluded some groups, which they never did. It just was not a thing to point it out and say"Look, we include LGBTQ", because it didn´t matter.

The new Star Wars was agenda driven, Batwoman ("The suit is literal perfection." "It will be. When it fits a woman." Roll Eyes ) even more, new Aladdin the same story. And the upcoming Ariel sent out similar vibes with the released stuff. Mulan?

Some even tried to make Warhammer 40k kidsfriendly, with Warhammer Adventures. Yeah, because the whole Warhammer Universe is known for being totally kidsfriendly :)

Nobody would/will have a problem, if the stories are well written and respect the established universes they play in (and that includes, not altering already existing chars to a new and hip agenda, because its trendy), if it then revolves around a gay/lesbian/whatever you want character.
But if that gender stuff and agenda is the main selling point and everything is altered to fit to that, yeah, of course the fandom will not like it. And that does not qualify as being toxic.

See it that way: It was the so called toxic fandom, or their shitton of money, that they spent on the movies and merchandise and theme parks etc., that made all that stuff successful. If you drive them away, of course, their money will go away too, and everything starts falling apart.

Remember, since a very long time the big money comes from merchandise, not from the movies. So pointing at movies, and saying, that they were a big success, yeah, doesn´t matter much, if nobody buys the merch afterwards, because massive groups got disappointed by those movies. Everyone will watch it at first, out of curiosity, but if they dislike it, they won´t buy all the other stuff, that brings in the most money for the companies.
The-Future1's avatar

First of all, I'm not accusing all fans of being toxic. Secondly "the new star wars films are agenda driven" news flash the creation of stars wars has always had a political agenda behind it. I mean apart from selling toys, what did you think the ewoks were for in return of the jedi? Lastly, this isn't about political agendas this or quality that, this is about bad people being rewarded for making the working environment of actors, critics, creatives, etc, extremely unsafe which is just going to drive creatives away from beloved franchises. I mean the whole reason Lucas gave up the rights to disney was because toxic fan backlash drove the guy away and he was tired of dealing with them.

Suthriel's avatar
You wrote about the fandom as a whole, and how toxic it is, not that some fans of the fandom are toxic. The fandom is all of them.

Including Ewoks to have something to sell later is a whole different story than infusing real world or gender politics etc. And the Ewoks were acutally pretty well written and included in the story, and they helped progressing the story and fleshing out the universe, unlike the Porg.
Oh, from the point of view of many fans, the bad persons are exactly those people, that have nothing better to do, than to infuse and enforce such agendas in the franchises.

Lucas sold it because of toxic fans? Maybe there was a different reason... like:

"George Lucas sold Lucasfilm Ltd, including Star Wars, to Disney to secure the future of the company he had worked so hard for most of his working life to build from scratch. In his own words:
“I felt that I really wanted to put the company somewhere in a larger entity which could protect it. Disney is a huge corporation. They have all kinds of capabilities and facilities, so that there’s a lot of strength that is gained by this…I’m doing this so that the films will have a longer life, and so that more fans and people can enjoy them in the future. It’s a very big universe I’ve created and there are a lot of stories that are sitting in there.”


In Disney's original press release in 2012, George Lucas was quoted as saying:

"For the past 35 years, one of my greatest pleasures has been to see Star Wars passed from one generation to the next. It’s now time for me to pass Star Wars on to a new generation of filmmakers. I’ve always believed that Star Wars could live beyond me, and I thought it was important to set up the transition during my lifetime."


Those are his own words. He wanted to make sure, that his creation can life on and be there for further generations, even after he passed away. 
However... one of Disneys first steps was to completely shut down the entire Expanded Universe. How was that supportive for the fans and all involved creators, that helped  creating it?
Not everyone, that call themselfes a creative or critique, are one.

But i guess, it´s pointless to continue this discussion. Have a nice day.
The-Future1's avatar

See this is why toxic fans keep getting their way. People like you and henry cavill assume all fans are sweet innocent lambs and that the people who make these films are these great and mighty demons who destroy everything in their path. Also if Lucas didn't sell the rights due to toxic fan backlash, why did he tell the new york times in 2012 "why would I make anymore when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?"


It's like everyone forgot just how horrific the backlash against lucas for the star wars prequels really was. But you know what? There's no point in trying to convince you. So go ahead and continue assuming that toxic fandom doesn't exist and just villify disney like everyone with george lucas after the prequels, but heed my words, someday, an innocent person might end up dead due to toxic fandom. Good day

Agent-Sarah's avatar
If you want a REAL toxic fandom, look at Stephen Universe. The nut bag fans nearly drove an artist to kill herself because she drew a character skinny before the show depicted said character as plus sized.

Or maybe the Voltron fandom where the hardcore fans tried to BLACKMAIL the creators into getting their fan ships canon or they will release the leaks of the next season. They went batshit nuts over the finale because they didn't got what they want while the normal half of the fandom tells them to fuck off.
The-Future1's avatar

Let's not even get started on the rick and morty fandom who harassed the show's female writers for the flimsiest of reasons, not to mention the schezshuan sauce incident.

DesenhoExperiment's avatar
Well, unfortunately, this is an industry and they really want that audience money, the bigger the product, the more money it needs to compensate, it is that simple.
The mainstream has become a complete, utterly mess, maybe we all should get away from this madness, and start to live within smaller, but easier to manage fandoms, with cheaper, but still entertaining works of media, that might work.
The-Future1's avatar

Any fandoms that spring to mind in this regard?

DesenhoExperiment's avatar

Not a fandom, just a small example of less popular media:

These days a saw a cartoon series called "Gari and His Demons", it was pretty fun, sometimes a little dirty, but this is a web cartoon after all.

Try to look into stuff like that for example.

The-Future1's avatar

What's Gari and his demons about?

DesenhoExperiment's avatar

It is about a demon hunter who really hates his job, he kinda sounds like Rick from Rick and Morty.

Lord-Commandr's avatar
Honestly? Keep being polite, be nice, don’t give into hatred or anger. Simile, be happy, be understanding that there are events out of your control and those that shout the hardest aren’t always the most correct.
The-Future1's avatar

You really think that'd work?

Lord-Commandr's avatar
You wont be able to reverse the negativity or toxicity, I'm afraid. The DCEU is full of hatred and people who are upset with nearly everything going on with the cinematic universe.

But it is better than answering with hate. Hate will just breed more hate and you will never out hate your enemies. But if you show compassion, you may be able to dull their hate enough to calm them down and maybe, just maybe convert them to your side. And I am meaning everything from pop culture disagreements to politics.

There is too much hate in the world and it is not one person's or one political party's or one countries fault, but society as a whole. We have forgotten how to be kind to.one another.

This is of course my opinion of the matter.
The-Future1's avatar

You're right. If I continue to hate then I'll essentially become the thing that I dread most. I mean if I keep dwelling on this then I'm essentially the same as the snyder fanatics who harassed the studio into releasing the snyder cut all because they can't move on from failures. Maybe being a little more optimistic and compassionate might help.

Lord-Commandr's avatar

Indeed. You may not change the world immediately, but you can influence kindness and that can influence others to do the same, and then slowly, you can fight to change the world. There is this quote from Gandalf that I love, from The Hobbit. "Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love "

YangXiaoFan457's avatar
Unfortunately you can't do much besides from reporting those people for harassment/death threats/abuse/etc.

The sad reality is that until someone actually dies, the people responsible won't be properly punished.
The-Future1's avatar

You'd think those kind of people would be properly punished after what they did to jake lloyd.