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April 16
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Is photoshopping a tattoo onto a character cheating?

:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
So basically, the fanart I drew is of a character with a tattoo, an arm sleeve to be specific. Would you say it's cheating to just grab the already existing tattoo from google and warping it into place with your piece?

I'm pretty sure that's a common trick used by other digital artists, to speed up the process, am I right? I tried searching for an answer but I couldn't find anything about people using that method, but I'm sure it's a well-known trick.

Just to reiterate, this isn't some random tattoo that I took, it's a tattoo specific to the character, and it would be quite complicated to recreate if I did.

Using an artist as an example, Ross Tran uses patterns and textures and images all the time with his piece, as long as it isn't pasted on exactly how it is, you have to edit and manipulate it to make it fit.

Let me know your opinions on it.
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Devious Comments

:iconapocalipsepony:
ApocalipsePony Featured By Owner May 21, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I see nothing wrong with it. just ask first
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:iconthn1mnyrpants:
Thn1mNYrPants Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2018  Hobbyist Artist
same
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:iconlillendandie:
Lillendandie Featured By Owner Edited Apr 30, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
No. As long as you 1. Have permission to use the tattoo design from the original artist (or created the image yourself); 2. Attribute the original artist who created the tattoo design; 3. Aren't misleading people.

I do not recommend grabbing random images off Google and using them without permission. It's a copyright violation, which you can be sued for, especially if you profit (sell prints / Patreon). Plus, it's very disrespectful to another artist.

Traditional artists also have light tables, tracing paper, carbon paper and camera obscura to do pretty much the same thing as you're trying to do. Using newer tools is not "cheating". It's pretty standard to use stock assets to speed up workflow. It's only when an artist is misusing a tool and trying to compensate for an ability in which they lack, that they run into problems.
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:iconplanet-i-studios:
Planet-i-Studios Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nah. I don't see it any diffrent than using stock images in this case.
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:icongoaga:
goaga Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2018  Student Digital Artist
no it s not cheating.it s called photobashing and it s used by a lot of industry level professionals. You are just adding texture and detail to your already existing drawing . If your art it s bad (and it s not bad at all), this will make it only worst 
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:icongoaga:
goaga Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2018  Student Digital Artist
if you need help send me a note, i know some texturing techniques
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:iconpyreite:
Pyreite Featured By Owner Edited Apr 23, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
If you can, ask.  It's just courteous, but that's if you can find the original artist.  Providing credit is a good idea if you can't track down the original artist anyway.  You might still get outted to them by fans, though, btw.  Who'll provide links even if you did credit, especially if you still used that image without permission. 

You're also in essence giving the creator of said tattoo free advertising if you grab it from google.  It might be your art, but it's their work.  So the thunder isn't entirely yours.  Peeps might see the credit you give, and go searching for the tattoo image instead.  You lose your audience. 

Plus your art is amazing.  Why take a shortcut?  You could always take elements of that chara-specific tat and design something original that fits them as well.
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:iconlillendandie:
Lillendandie Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
If you use a random image off Google, it won't be free advertising if the people don't know where the image came from. That's usually what happens. People share images. They don't credit.
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:iconpyreite:
Pyreite Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
It probably depends on whether or not they can find the original posting of that image.  If it's watermarked you're in trouble, especially if it came from an artist or photographer for example.  The watermark is identifiable whether it's posted anywhere on the internet, as is the image if it's from a source that people can find.  For example some artists on DA have had their art put on merchandise for sale without permission.  It took one or two comments from users on DA on their profiles to inform them of the issue.  And that's without their artwork being watermarked or signed.

You are correct however in terms of people sharing images without credit.  It has happened with some of my fav now defunct artists like Sandfreak.  Their stuff is all over Pixiv etc.  But it's been easy to ID where that stuff came from. Sand's DA gallery.  Their style is very distinctive.
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:iconmattchee:
mattchee Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2018  Professional General Artist
I don't consider that process cheating per se.

I do think there are intellectual property and ethical concerns where by you are possibly using someone else's art without their permission.

However, if you had permission, or took the photo yourself, or obtained it in some other free and clear way, then no. I do think that is cheating. At all.
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:iconpaulaedith:
PaulaEdith Featured By Owner Edited Apr 17, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
I know a lot of tatoo designers who would get crazy mad reading this thread, not like they get economically hurted for this but they got their designs stealed so often and so easily (and nobody cares) that is a thorny issue.
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:iconayywa:
Ayywa Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's not cheating. And don't worry about the copyrights.
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:iconnickia5775:
Nickia5775 Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm not so sure...
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:iconnickia5775:
Nickia5775 Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
unless they say so, I guess... I usually look at the policies on the art.
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I can see having sex with someone other than your spouse is cheating, or cheating on a test, or cheating on a diet which only keeps you from losing weight or gaining it that is the way you want to go. 

I don't relate cheating to anything in art, but I do consider your art as a test for what you know and can do, and what you can imagine, but there is no cheating on that test because for a lot of people they will see what you did wrong, and what you really do know.

When you are working to make someone's imagination look real. They don't care how you do it as long as they get what they want. If you are selling art then you could be infringing on copyrights, but when you actually do the work they can't claim copyrights when it is not a copy, no matter how much it looks the same. If you make any changes to it then it is not a copy. 

I can paint Disney art and it will be my work, and there will be no argument over it, because unless I show it to the public nobody would see it, and since I made it I am fine with it, while other people might want to argue about it. I never feel I cheat in art, but if there is any cheating then the artist could be cheating themselves out of the experience. 
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
So based on what you said in the 3rd paragraph, "If you make any changes to it then it is not a copy", it's fine as long as it's not a 100% copy paste, the tattoo needs to be manipulated or edited.
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:iconachipps:
achipps Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That is the way copyrights works. If it has a lot of details then more would need to be changed, just to say it was not a copy. 
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:iconbookofcheats:
BookOfCheats Featured By Owner Edited Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
depends. are you going to then sell the character? If it is strictly for personal use/non advertisement (aka using it as a commission sample etc) then it shouldn't be a problem. Just remember to cite where you found the original tattoo ^^ If it's for a commission, you should get permission from the person who created the tattoo/and or character, or it could bring up legal issues.
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Best case scenario, I can look at artists like ross tran and sakimichan and assume that companies mostly don't care about suing fanart 99.9% of the time. Either that or they have some pretty good lawyers.
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:iconnguyenhuuhongvan:
NguyenHuuHongVan Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That depend on the company policy, Japan company encourage the doujinshi culture for a win-win end meet : www.tofugu.com/japan/doujinshi…

I can't say the same for western base company, but maybe they view that those two wasn't worth it yet, or because so far Sakimi claim that she sell tutorial as the main merchandise.

back to your case, since this is the tattoo specialize for this characters, that's not cheating one bit.
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:iconzackseamus:
zackseamus Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Student Digital Artist
I don't think so. 

You must do everything you can to put what is in your head down to the paper (or monitor, in this case). 

The only thing that I would recomend is adding a note referring to the original artwork of the tattoo in your description. Always be open and transparent to your followers, and thats it :)
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Cool cools :)
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:iconsparkietheartist:
SparkieTheArtist Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Student General Artist
Its not cheating if you acknowledge it
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Thanks for the input :)
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:iconyese30:
yese30 Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
It depends :3
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:iconl0ni:
L0ni Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
If you can make it work, its smart to use digital tools to their full potential. 

The method I saw was to take a pattern like this: www.google.com/search?q=chines…:

Cut it so you only have the dragon and then set it to overlay and warp it on to the character and adjust the colors and what it showing.

Anyone that calls it cheating doesn't understand that it takes skill and know-how to do this.
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
It's kinda basically what I did but with a whole tattoo (excluding the parts that were cropped out because it wrapped behind the arm or something.
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:iconbookofcheats:
BookOfCheats Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ooor it's because they are worried about legal actions and copyright laws. If it's free use, that's different sometimes (certain free use images don't allow people to use it commercially, while others do.)

It really just depends on the situation and the 'what fors' or whatever lol
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:iconsoftwarrior:
Softwarrior Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
i dont think it is cheating really, you are just using it to the entire fanart, but if u want to be sure it can be a good idea let in the description what the tattoo isnt yours or the link to the original one
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
True true :)
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:iconmathildasdoubel:
MathildasDoubel Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018
if it's copyright yes, otherwise no. 
I feel like often it looks bit out of place though, so I'd keep the style of the image in mind and match it the level of detail to the rest of the picture.
sometimes when they photoshop tattoos on a character, it's much to high in detail compared to the rest of the picture.
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:iconnguyenhuuhongvan:
NguyenHuuHongVan Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That's entirely depend on a company policy, Japanese company usually encourage doujinshi for a winwin end: www.tofugu.com/japan/doujinshi…


Western base company, in the other hand............
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:iconlillendandie:
Lillendandie Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
I think we need to factor in the western companies that pay for the Copyrights to own anime in the west. They do protect their properties. They can file DMCA. I'm not a lawyer, but they could probably sue. There's a difference between the fanartists online and Japanese manga-ka selling small run doujin at an anime con.
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:iconnguyenhuuhongvan:
NguyenHuuHongVan Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Oh, I was talking about their priority. However if it come to law, then yes, both have all the right to sue the hell out of people (Japan already did with their EDM culture part). Japanese company use that to control the progress of a property tho; hence you could see alot of manga got dragged on to the point of repetitive, while some got a forced end.

erm, I wasn't all familiar with western culture so care to elaborate a little for me?
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Even if it's fanart? I believe fanart falls under some sort of creative law rights, right?

And I hope my rendering does the tattoo justice.
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:iconmathildasdoubel:
MathildasDoubel Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018
Yes and no. making fanart is completely legal as long as you don't publish it for example via dA.
if you see it strictly, as soon as you post your fanart online without permission and you profit from it for example by getting views on your page that could be potential customers for your own art, it's copyright infringement and thus not legal.
most bigger franchise owner will ignore you though unless you start making loads of money with their stuff.
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Sakimichan must have some god-tier lawyers, either that or she sets the bar of how much companies don't care about suing fanart.
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:iconmathildasdoubel:
MathildasDoubel Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2018
yeah. they mostly don't really care.
I heard of Disney suing people for selling fanwork. 
DC and blizzard also had statements that they don't want fanwork to be sold... I don't know where i read them though.
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:iconbookofcheats:
BookOfCheats Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yup ! This is also why a lot of conventions won't allow you to sell fanart, or if they do allow it, they want you to only sell a small portion as fanart and the rest as original works to lessen copyright infringing.
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:iconleilaascariz:
LeilaAscariz Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I would just make sure that the material isn't copyrighted and possibly mentioning the source as a reference, but it is not cheating at all. Many people tend to consider photomanipulation, rendering, using textures or stock pictures as "cheating" but that is unfair. It's only cheating when people claim not to have done it.
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Yeah, true true, I mean, the character is a licensed character since it is fanart but that falls under some creative law, right?
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:iconlillendandie:
Lillendandie Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
If you are talking about US Copyright laws, they are pretty poorly defined with intentional grey areas. There are literally lawyers who specialize in this sort of thing, and it's pretty confusing.

If a company owns a character it's Copyrighted to them. Technically, you don't automatically have the right to use it. However there are certain things that are protected, like "parody".

Other factors are things like - Does your stuff look official? Are you making money? Are you selling something they would sell? Did you have permission?

DA actually had someone talk about this topic. Warning it's long.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBsTU…
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:iconleilaascariz:
LeilaAscariz Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I think that you should be allowed to use it... But I don't know that much.
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:iconyatocommish:
yatocommish Featured By Owner Edited Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
I believe not. I mean hey, that's one of the functions of Photoshop. It'd be a waste if you don't use it eh?
As for the tattoo, make sure you designed it so you won't hit any copyright issues. :)
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
Well, the tattoo is off a licensed character, a fanart. So I'm not designing it, just using an image of one that is of the character's.
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:iconyatocommish:
yatocommish Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist General Artist
Well then, that's fine.
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:iconscottahemi:
ScottaHemi Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Hobbyist Digital Artist
id' worry a little about copywrite issues.

but yeah that's a common tatoo trick, especially for complex tatoos. 
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:iconchrisn-art:
ChrisN-Art Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Professional Digital Artist
I mean, the character I drew is a licensed character but it's fanart so it falls under some sort of creative law, right?
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:icondjmarshmellokity:
DJMarshMelloKity Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2018  Student Artist
So long you make it look cool and awesome then im fine with it. and i will no hate you for doing it.Squish Hug  
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