Know what your talents are worth. Don't be taken advantage. Don't lower your compensation standards.
First off, let me apologize if this is considered the wrong place to post this. I can't see it finding the right audience anywhere else. I was considering posting it here AND the job offers forum.
My name is Kellan Stover, an illustrator who has been on dA for 5 or 6 years now. I've basically grown up as an artist, posting my work for they eyes of the interested, on this very site. My gallery (while most of the oldest stuff has been removed) is a timeline from a 16 year old with a hobby to a 21 year old professional illustrator. I value this website very much for what it can do for an artist development that usually doesn't happen until you've enrolled in an art institution or college. Posting work here and being critiqued before college critiquing began truly prepared me to be open minded about how others view and accept my art.
If there's one thing, above all, that I've learned from my years at the Savannah College of Art and Design, and also from practicing and improving my craft, it is that you must know that your talent is worth every cent. You should never hurt your integrity as an artist, or the field in general by knowingly or unknowingly accepting below industry standard compensation. I understand that many of you who post here are teenagers. This is a wonderful environment in which to be, surrounded by like-minded individuals pursuing a passion. While it is true that as a non-professional you can't expect as high returns as a pro, I still want you to know that offering the prices most of you do for the services you do is almost robbery on the clients part: $3, $5, $10 pencil drawings, $50, $100 logo designs, $30 t-shirt designs, $100 book covers
It is criminal. The only way I ever look the other way is when it is a for fun situation where both the client and the artist are in understanding that it isn't a lot of money but there isn't any more money to be given anyway. Both parties being non-professionals or non-adults. But more often than not, it is an actual company representative dipping in to take advantage of the uninformed. Contests from design sites calling for logo designs with a prize of only $200 (guaranteed for only one winning artist), Bands requesting album art for mere dollars. It causes me legitimate chest pain, people. It is for this reason that I want to be present here, and answer any pricing questions you may have. I want to provide any assistance you require. Professionals in the field or hobbyist, you deserve just compensation. It IS up to you to set your prices. I don't intend to dictate what everyone must ask for, but to let those who might think these low prices are correct know that they are not. At all.
My partner in crime is the Graphic Artists Guild Pricing & Ethical Guidelines Handbook 12th Ed. 2007 (the next edition is due out this Sept.). This industry standard text has every single thing (seriously. every. single. thing.) you need to know about pricing, contract writing, royalty payments, and the people you contact in the process. The Graphic Artists Guild serves as your best defense should complications arise during a contractual agreement between a client and yourself. The Guild requires membership for their benefits, but the handbook is for everyone. I'm not a salesman, so I won't post a link to an online store. I'll just suggest that you buy it if you are a professional or intend to become one.
I quoteth the handbook:
"Outlets and usage have mushroomed over the past 70 years, yet reimbursement has not. At the same time that the demand for all kinds of art is escalating - as an essential component of sales, persuasion, and education - there is less and less respect for its practitioners. Not only is the artist expected to meet shorter turnaround times, but there has been an epidemic of inappropriate requests for uncompensated rights.
This does not mean that contemporary artists should cut their mouse cords in despair. Rather, this information is intended to encourage illustrators and designers to evaluate the true worth of their work and seek it aggressively."
Thank you for your patience and time,
Kellan Stover
illustrator
My name is Kellan Stover, an illustrator who has been on dA for 5 or 6 years now. I've basically grown up as an artist, posting my work for they eyes of the interested, on this very site. My gallery (while most of the oldest stuff has been removed) is a timeline from a 16 year old with a hobby to a 21 year old professional illustrator. I value this website very much for what it can do for an artist development that usually doesn't happen until you've enrolled in an art institution or college. Posting work here and being critiqued before college critiquing began truly prepared me to be open minded about how others view and accept my art.
If there's one thing, above all, that I've learned from my years at the Savannah College of Art and Design, and also from practicing and improving my craft, it is that you must know that your talent is worth every cent. You should never hurt your integrity as an artist, or the field in general by knowingly or unknowingly accepting below industry standard compensation. I understand that many of you who post here are teenagers. This is a wonderful environment in which to be, surrounded by like-minded individuals pursuing a passion. While it is true that as a non-professional you can't expect as high returns as a pro, I still want you to know that offering the prices most of you do for the services you do is almost robbery on the clients part: $3, $5, $10 pencil drawings, $50, $100 logo designs, $30 t-shirt designs, $100 book covers
It is criminal. The only way I ever look the other way is when it is a for fun situation where both the client and the artist are in understanding that it isn't a lot of money but there isn't any more money to be given anyway. Both parties being non-professionals or non-adults. But more often than not, it is an actual company representative dipping in to take advantage of the uninformed. Contests from design sites calling for logo designs with a prize of only $200 (guaranteed for only one winning artist), Bands requesting album art for mere dollars. It causes me legitimate chest pain, people. It is for this reason that I want to be present here, and answer any pricing questions you may have. I want to provide any assistance you require. Professionals in the field or hobbyist, you deserve just compensation. It IS up to you to set your prices. I don't intend to dictate what everyone must ask for, but to let those who might think these low prices are correct know that they are not. At all.
My partner in crime is the Graphic Artists Guild Pricing & Ethical Guidelines Handbook 12th Ed. 2007 (the next edition is due out this Sept.). This industry standard text has every single thing (seriously. every. single. thing.) you need to know about pricing, contract writing, royalty payments, and the people you contact in the process. The Graphic Artists Guild serves as your best defense should complications arise during a contractual agreement between a client and yourself. The Guild requires membership for their benefits, but the handbook is for everyone. I'm not a salesman, so I won't post a link to an online store. I'll just suggest that you buy it if you are a professional or intend to become one.
I quoteth the handbook:
"Outlets and usage have mushroomed over the past 70 years, yet reimbursement has not. At the same time that the demand for all kinds of art is escalating - as an essential component of sales, persuasion, and education - there is less and less respect for its practitioners. Not only is the artist expected to meet shorter turnaround times, but there has been an epidemic of inappropriate requests for uncompensated rights.
This does not mean that contemporary artists should cut their mouse cords in despair. Rather, this information is intended to encourage illustrators and designers to evaluate the true worth of their work and seek it aggressively."
Thank you for your patience and time,
Kellan Stover
illustrator
Comments297
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Sorry, but this forum is only for posting job offers. But I think this would make a great news article. You might think about submitting it. 
I'm very much agree on what this guy saying...
Value yourself higher YOU ARE an ARTIST.. we are...
Value yourself higher
YOU ARE an ARTIST.. we are...
Nice message. I'm not sure myself as what to price my works since my teacher said that at most $50 - $150 is the acceptable price range for student works. I guess that's why my Degenerative Robotics sculpture didn't sell, since no one was willing to shell out the $150 I was asking for. Not many people realize the amount of work I put into it, from burning myself with hot embers to suffering a sprained wrist while bending the metal to the hours, literally I was in the shop until 2 a.m. working on this piece to prepare for that show. Let alone the many headaches I suffered in the design changes and flaws that sent back in front of a grinder to make sure the metal was clean enough to weld to.
To the naysayers, it might not be a BIG IMMEDIATE difference, but it definitely needed to be said. At least one of thousands on here will take the advice to heart and realize that it's really cutthroat out there. I once did a commission for a "friend" for hentai in exchange for a fully operative robotic assembly (some kind of ear rigging for his girlfriend), but when my computer went KAPUT! from his meddling, guess who got stiffed with the bill.... yours truly. $2500+ dollars I'll never see again on a computer that wasn't worth half as much and he wouldn't replace it until I finished the project. To which I left him $400.00 in unassembled parts he bought as my parting gift and gratitude for wrecking my system.
So yes, it is imperative that we do learn from this. I had to learn it the hard way.
To the naysayers, it might not be a BIG IMMEDIATE difference, but it definitely needed to be said. At least one of thousands on here will take the advice to heart and realize that it's really cutthroat out there. I once did a commission for a "friend" for hentai in exchange for a fully operative robotic assembly (some kind of ear rigging for his girlfriend), but when my computer went KAPUT! from his meddling, guess who got stiffed with the bill.... yours truly. $2500+ dollars I'll never see again on a computer that wasn't worth half as much and he wouldn't replace it until I finished the project. To which I left him $400.00 in unassembled parts he bought as my parting gift and gratitude for wrecking my system.
So yes, it is imperative that we do learn from this. I had to learn it the hard way.
agree, and wel said sir! let's treat anyone in this forum as an adult and once you are offering your service. You're turn professional and should put an appropriate standard as such. Everytime you're slash your prizes, you hurting fellow artists.
Any idea so we can get projects with high prices?
It's not high prices we're looking for, it's proper ones. They only seem high because everyone here is so used to chump change. But no, there's nothing one can do to bring in people willing to pay the right amount. I've said it before, but jobs like that, with real, respectable, well-paying clients don't fall into your lap like the offers in this forum. You gotta work for it and go to them. They don't come to you. Every now and then you will get one in here, yes, but for the most part, without regulation in this forum don't expect much to change. :\
I think DeviantART should either remove the word "serious" from this board and let their site continue to die, or actually have mods make sure what is offered is up to industry standards.
that or offer up a new board strictly monitored, and leave this one for the scammers.
great post ! this pricing-guides should be an fixed part of the forums.
I just want to point out that my previous estimation for the JustJean's paint was based on Italian rates and taxes.
1 hour of work, here in italy, is payed between 7 and 14 Euro. Adding taxes it become a range from 14 to 28 Euro per hour.
Freelance pro usually ask 28 Euro per hour. Therefore, 28 Euro * 27 hours = 756 Euro.
756 Euro with the today Euro/Dollar change is equal to $926.364.
Italian taxes are about 50% of the price, therefore the artist would earn about 378 Euro, that is about $463.182. I don't know exactly the taxes in other countries of Europe or the USA. Of course, if your country taxes are less then 50% you can apply lower prices.
1 hour of work, here in italy, is payed between 7 and 14 Euro. Adding taxes it become a range from 14 to 28 Euro per hour.
Freelance pro usually ask 28 Euro per hour. Therefore, 28 Euro * 27 hours = 756 Euro.
756 Euro with the today Euro/Dollar change is equal to $926.364.
Italian taxes are about 50% of the price, therefore the artist would earn about 378 Euro, that is about $463.182. I don't know exactly the taxes in other countries of Europe or the USA. Of course, if your country taxes are less then 50% you can apply lower prices.
@fantasio « I have learned to ask people who want to lower my quote with a question if they can bring their mechanic or lawyer to lower their quotes, if they got a receipt or proof for that, I ´ll do that too. »
I have tried that many times with my customers, but most of the times I got to... offend them, this way. I guess that this approach does not work with Italian customers.
I have tried that many times with my customers, but most of the times I got to... offend them, this way. I guess that this approach does not work with Italian customers
.
This needs to be in the Job services forum. I agree with everything in this post (don't get me wrong). However, the people in that job service forum are the real victims and don't have a clue. They need to see this and I doubt (and don't expect) change from these job offers as they should be taken out of personal choice and not professional standard. I'm sure you're aware of what I mean.
Anyways, great post and cool art too.
Anyways, great post and cool art too.
Problem is:
I don't know how to market myself like you do and how to survive while doing the fun/free (not cheap commissions) projects and most successful artists are either too busy or too scare to share their marketing strategies with the rest of us and they only repetitively post a thread like this of which most of us have been aware. The key is to share the marketing guide, not the price list info. + --> [link] Seriously I'm willing to pay you $250 for bringing a client like that. Can you?
I don't know how to market myself like you do and how to survive while doing the fun/free (not cheap commissions) projects and most successful artists are either too busy or too scare to share their marketing strategies with the rest of us and they only repetitively post a thread like this of which most of us have been aware. The key is to share the marketing guide, not the price list info. + --> [link] Seriously I'm willing to pay you $250 for bringing a client like that. Can you?
Oh, sorry I didn't see that comment from before! My apologies. But, I don't think I can. I'm not linked up with those types of clients. I appreciate the offer though. But marketing yourself is a never-ending process of self-promotion, networking, and stress! I can't tell you exactly what steps to take, but there are LOTS of resources with pointers out there.
Nate Williams has a great article here:
[link]
In a nutshell, you should:
constantly hone your craft, do personal project when you can, to develop your style (as a strong cohesive portfolio stylistically is probably your best asset)
Create promotional materials - postcard mailers to send to art directors/publishers/editorial staff, a strong portfolio website, business cards, and every now and then email newsletters to previous or prospective clients (sometimes they don't like the impersonal aspect of this, but what can you do?) When submitting materials to the cream of the crop, the people you REALLY want to impress, the best thing is to make something from scratch for them. Many people create and bound their own specially designed sample books (upward of a hundred dollars or more) to really give that "You need to hire me" vibe.
Getting your name out there, marketing yourself, and finding clients is a huge gamble. There's a lot of give and just a little take. It's exhausting, but required in this world where everybody and their grandma has a website, email address, and copy of Adobe Photoshop. That's why everything about success has to do with standing out, being unique, and being NEEDED.
Nate Williams has a great article here:
[link]
In a nutshell, you should:
constantly hone your craft, do personal project when you can, to develop your style (as a strong cohesive portfolio stylistically is probably your best asset)
Create promotional materials - postcard mailers to send to art directors/publishers/editorial staff, a strong portfolio website, business cards, and every now and then email newsletters to previous or prospective clients (sometimes they don't like the impersonal aspect of this, but what can you do?) When submitting materials to the cream of the crop, the people you REALLY want to impress, the best thing is to make something from scratch for them. Many people create and bound their own specially designed sample books (upward of a hundred dollars or more) to really give that "You need to hire me" vibe.
Getting your name out there, marketing yourself, and finding clients is a huge gamble. There's a lot of give and just a little take. It's exhausting, but required in this world where everybody and their grandma has a website, email address, and copy of Adobe Photoshop. That's why everything about success has to do with standing out, being unique, and being NEEDED.
I'll check the link. thxs
For every solution there is a problem...
see, I refused to join twitter a long time, but for that very reason you want to gain, I recommend everyone to join and follow the right people, for example, theispot, artorder, escape from illustration illand, ninja mountain, blogs and stuff from the people who know it.
I´m only an artist too and can only share from where I have my knowledge, but as you said have not the time to build lists or blogs full of resources, when its easier to share to them with a pointer on twitter -instead writing a blog that no one reads.
additionally for the marketing and freelancing part there is also freelancefolder and artmarketing dot com for important infos and news, you need to filter whats important to you and what not, what helps you grow and what not, equally important is to find out whats your best communication method, if you are good on the phone, spent less time on the internet, if you are good in person, don´t waste time on the phone or the internet, etc.
also i have to say your gallery is very mixed, which is not bad, but quality should not suffer or have an equal level, less is more and focussing on less styles may scare some possible clients away, but gathers new interested parties allows faster popularity in general, make different portfolios instead and show them on different places, cartoon-works on toonpool.com, the concept-art on cghub, the sketches here on dA, etc...
interesting names to google about, should be: Seth Godin, Copyblogger, Molly Gordon and Artorder, Ninja Mountain, the artcenter-blogspot, freelancefolder
this might be a crash-course but only helpful for those who are not afraid of doing the hard work, I can only show you the door, and..there is no red or blue pill, sorry Neo
see, I refused to join twitter a long time, but for that very reason you want to gain, I recommend everyone to join and follow the right people, for example, theispot, artorder, escape from illustration illand, ninja mountain, blogs and stuff from the people who know it.
I´m only an artist too and can only share from where I have my knowledge, but as you said have not the time to build lists or blogs full of resources, when its easier to share to them with a pointer on twitter -instead writing a blog that no one reads.
additionally for the marketing and freelancing part there is also freelancefolder and artmarketing dot com for important infos and news, you need to filter whats important to you and what not, what helps you grow and what not, equally important is to find out whats your best communication method, if you are good on the phone, spent less time on the internet, if you are good in person, don´t waste time on the phone or the internet, etc.
also i have to say your gallery is very mixed, which is not bad, but quality should not suffer or have an equal level, less is more and focussing on less styles may scare some possible clients away, but gathers new interested parties allows faster popularity in general, make different portfolios instead and show them on different places, cartoon-works on toonpool.com, the concept-art on cghub, the sketches here on dA, etc...
interesting names to google about, should be: Seth Godin, Copyblogger, Molly Gordon and Artorder, Ninja Mountain, the artcenter-blogspot, freelancefolder
this might be a crash-course but only helpful for those who are not afraid of doing the hard work, I can only show you the door, and..there is no red or blue pill, sorry Neo
That sounds too general, I think, but well, at least I found the art center blog spot & freelanceholder are interesting to browse. Thanks for sharing those.
there is a lot more resources that I´d need to gather atm, but it might be a good resource to have all links on one place, I guess
glad I could help a bit
glad I could help a bit
I think it'll be very useful if you could gather all practical - up to date - links & info on 1 news article. I'm sure serious artists will be grateful.
ITs on my list for blog-posts in the near future, but to keep it -up to date" I need to make it on my blog in order to be able updating some links and stuff that changes ..
But in the meantime search on twitter and you ARE up to date on infos
btw. freelanceswitch is also great!
But in the meantime search on twitter and you ARE up to date on infos
btw. freelanceswitch is also great!
freelanceswitch requires money to apply the job there :/
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I can relate to this article and also would like to point out hte quote from a designer blog I´ve read a while ago: "Do work for full prize or for free, but never for cheap" where I´d say the free- means personal work, fun projects and such.
I have learned to ask people who want to lower my quote with a question if they can bring their mechanic or lawyer to lower their quotes, if they got a receipt or proof for that, I ´ll do that too. with that sentence people actually start to think about what they want from an artist and that it isn´t any different than asking a technician for service. but you need to get through to this point all by yourself.
Luckily I can afford working rather on personal projects than for cheap, but then, personal works bring in more professional work, so in the end, free work isn´t free at all if you know how to market yourself.
get a twitter account, get the right sources, read the right blogs and follow the right guys and if everyone would follow this simple guide in a few years no one except for schoolkids would charge less than 150 bucks for a private commission, but as long as artists don´t know what they are worth and people hiring these artists, this vicious cycle will never end...
I have learned to ask people who want to lower my quote with a question if they can bring their mechanic or lawyer to lower their quotes, if they got a receipt or proof for that, I ´ll do that too. with that sentence people actually start to think about what they want from an artist and that it isn´t any different than asking a technician for service. but you need to get through to this point all by yourself.
Luckily I can afford working rather on personal projects than for cheap, but then, personal works bring in more professional work, so in the end, free work isn´t free at all if you know how to market yourself.
get a twitter account, get the right sources, read the right blogs and follow the right guys and if everyone would follow this simple guide in a few years no one except for schoolkids would charge less than 150 bucks for a private commission, but as long as artists don´t know what they are worth and people hiring these artists, this vicious cycle will never end...
Problem is: I don't know how to market myself like you do and how to survive while doing the fun projects and most successful artists are either too busy or to cheap to share their marketing strategies with the rest of us and they only repetitively post a thread like this of which most of us have been aware. The key is the to share the marketing guide not the price list info.
The people who do this are in one of two (possibly three camps)
1.) Other countries whose economies are so depressed that $100USD could pay their entire rent for a month. Which is a truly frightening reality for every illustrator who lives in a more expensive country
2.) Western artists who don't need to support themselves by their art yet: live with parents, have another job that makes them actual money, living off financial aid and PT work in school, etc.. What these people do not understand is that by eroding the marketplace *now*, they themselves will never be able to be full-time artists--when their own monthly expenses come to a couple grand, or more per month, where will they be able to go to get freelance gigs that amount to that, month after month?
3.) Uneducated aspirants who think they need to get "in print" a few times to get "real" work. You don't--you have to understand that. If you are never published, but walk up to a "real" client with stellar artwork, you *will* get work. However, the quickie job you do for $50 will likely never get you that "real" client who might pay you a decent fee. And you'll have wasted your time that could've been spent producing something better, minus the paltry $50.
#2&3 can be educated. #1 unfortunately is the new reality in the digital age, and the reason why freelancing in the west is going to shrink considerably over the coming years. Some of these artists are truly great, and when you can do a $100 logo or illustration, spend 2 weeks on it, and support a family because you live in small-town china or iran or something, well, how can western artists compete with that?
1.) Other countries whose economies are so depressed that $100USD could pay their entire rent for a month. Which is a truly frightening reality for every illustrator who lives in a more expensive country
2.) Western artists who don't need to support themselves by their art yet: live with parents, have another job that makes them actual money, living off financial aid and PT work in school, etc.. What these people do not understand is that by eroding the marketplace *now*, they themselves will never be able to be full-time artists--when their own monthly expenses come to a couple grand, or more per month, where will they be able to go to get freelance gigs that amount to that, month after month?
3.) Uneducated aspirants who think they need to get "in print" a few times to get "real" work. You don't--you have to understand that. If you are never published, but walk up to a "real" client with stellar artwork, you *will* get work. However, the quickie job you do for $50 will likely never get you that "real" client who might pay you a decent fee. And you'll have wasted your time that could've been spent producing something better, minus the paltry $50.
#2&3 can be educated. #1 unfortunately is the new reality in the digital age, and the reason why freelancing in the west is going to shrink considerably over the coming years. Some of these artists are truly great, and when you can do a $100 logo or illustration, spend 2 weeks on it, and support a family because you live in small-town china or iran or something, well, how can western artists compete with that?