The peoples speaking out about cheap wages are the people who are tired of buyers like you cheapening the freelance community. You are just as bad as the naive artists accepting your commissions because the both of you are contributing to a huge problem with freelance work. Art is work and usually the consensus is that an artist should be paid cheaper because its seen as an easier, funner career choice with opportunities to become "famous". The sad reality is, those who do become "famous" through their work is few and far between. We all want to be shooting stars, but usually it ends with just a constant struggle to pay bills and get good wages for artwork. But, that is what being an artist is. Struggling to do what one loves.
I know this is an older post. I just wanted to put my 2 cents in. Also, PS, insulting someone for having an opinion on the subject matter is not a very professional way to present oneself. Also, touting around expertise, degrees, and successes, doesn't put you on a pedestal where you're above criticism. You're just one in an endless sea of people with the same dream as you.
I never said I was a professional at making comics. I run it as an actual business but I have a real job. This is my hobby.
I don't care about the artistic community or the health of the freelance art industry I care about me and the people that I work with. I think I've expressed that enough that you should really know better.
In the future please keep your self indulgent opinion to yourself. It is not wanted or warranted in this truly ancient thread.
And if you think I was trying to put myself on a pedestal you need a class in reading comprehension.
I appreciate your interest but this is a really old ad revived by idiots. Remedial Comics is not hiring at this time. However if you send an e-mail to email@example.com I will add you to the list of artists I pull from when I need more work done than the current artists I work with can handle.
So you're offering $5 per comic with the panels ranging from 1-6 per comic with three comics per week. At best that is $1.66 per panel and worst is 83c. You claim you're looking for professionals but you're offering peanuts that quite frankly are a slap in the face for every hardworking cartoonist.
I doubt you're after professionals. More like the young and naive who can be fooled into believing this is yet another amazing opportunity for 'exposure'. I'm not knocking the idea of you joining the throng pulling out teeth trying to eek out a few bucks with online web comics but do you really think that paying that sort of rate will attract the talent to bring life to you're words? Is that all they're worth? Will your artist be prepared to work for a few years at that rate to gain any sort of following or do you think you have an instant winner?
First.... you're an idiot. Not a little one either but a quite spectacularly large idiot. Second.... who the hell are you to tell me how to run my business? Did I solicit your feedback? No. I have degrees and expertise in a whole bunch of things but I don't spend my time writing to people and forcing my opinion of their job offers down their throats. The arrogance of people like you (and there seems to be a lot of them centered on this site) is shocking. In short, get stuffed. Third.... you clearly don't do much research... the ad you are commenting on is practically ancient in internet terms. Nearly a year old. And guess what? I found my artist. His name is Corey Kramer... he's a graduate of the Joe Kubert School (pretty much the most prestigious art school in comics) and we've been making and publishing comics together for over eight months now. Wanna guess how I met him? How about what I pay him? Go on guess. Or you could just read the ad again. We formed an LLC together and we've already exhibited at NY Comic Con and Connecticon. Our table was in the same row as Webcomics.com, Blind Ferret Entertainment, Nintendo and DC Comics.
We're doing just fine. And if you bothered to take even a moment to check my site you might know that.
And guess what... I just worked on a print submission that I'm sending around to editors and I got it done for FREE and it looks awesome. Suck on that.
I'm not sure exactly what's going on but it appears there is nothing in your gallery. On your home page I saw a bunch of photographs but only one or two drawings and only one thing that was color (colored by you but drawn by someone else).
If you have other stuff please feel free to link me.
Anyone who feels this offer is less than fair you are invited to go find work elsewhere. I've been very clear in my ad as to what I'm looking for and what I'm going to pay. If you have any questions and are interested specifically then please contact me via e-mail as I asked in the original ad.
What I do not want is yet another in a series of debates about whether or not what I'm doing is fair/right/or just. Like any job on this planet if you take the offer you are expected to do the work to earn the money. So far I've been busting my butt on this project for over a year and have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours and dollars on pulling it together.
If you want in great, roll up your sleeves and we'll get to work. If not, I wish you good day.
Wow, you're art is amazing. I think I've seen your monkey somewhere before. Squish is incredible.
Do you have an instant messenger? Please send me an e-mail at firstname.lastname@example.org and I'll forward on my instant messenger account names so we can have a chat about the specifics of what I'm looking for.
In the mean time please take a look at the existing comic at www.remedialcomics.com
Thank you for your interest. I would like some more information from you. If you would be able to provide some of your experience as an artist and any sequential work you've done, that would be incredibly appreciated."
I've looked at your art now I'd like to know more about your history as an artist. Thanks,
Sorry for the delay, I have no internet at my residence at the moment, I will begin checking more freequently. Most of my two dimensional animations have been lost, as well as storyboads. my sequential work is under comic in my gallery.
well, ... I accelled in art from elementary school from junior high I made mettle sculptures in highschool as well as back drops and props in drama I recieved a scholarship from the art Institute of Seattle. I studied nothing primarily (a little of everything.) unless you count drawing most of my classes could incorporate drawing. I studied 3d animaton 2d hand drawn and the entire prosceesses. primarily virtual modeling, Illustratrion, storyboarding, photoshop as well as many traditional art classes. I graduated in 2003 dec found no work, mooved home, found a regualar job.. eventually began the freelance thing, I've done a comic, an instruction manual, cherecatures, and many varied Illustrations. I have done snow sculpture. I'm pretty much trucking on as an artist, starving but skilled and content. Is there anny thing in particular you would like to know?
Yeah, a week is kind of a long time to wait for a response. Constant communication is pretty important to me.
Is this internet outage of yours a temporary thing? When do you think you will have internet again?
I'd like to speak to you about this in a little more detail. Preferably over an instant messenger or something like that.
I have AIM, MSN, Yahoo and a chat enabled G-Mail account.
Please send me an e-mail at rob@remedialcomics and tell me which of them you would like to use and I'll send you my screen names.
Right now I'm mostly interested in a few things. First what is your artistic process? Do you work traditionally all the time or can you ink and or color digitally? If so what software do you use? Have you looked at Remedy? Do you own/use a tablet of any kind? Do you feel you can comfortably replicate the comic on schedule with similar art and style and still have time to contribute to the overall big picture of Remedial Comics? Where in the US are you located?
Those are my primary interests right now. There are other things to discuss and we can talk about perhaps doing a test comic after I establish some reliable communications with you. Let me know what you think. I look forward to hearing from you.
$5 is a little cheap unless you just want stickmen like cyanide & happiness, especially committing the artist to 3 strips a week. I would do it for maybe $10-$15 a strip, and thats being very generous.
You're entitled to your opinion. Since I run a community of webcomics creators with over a 135 other webcomic artists and writers and I've polled them about their financial arrangements I will respectfully disagree.
I didn't even realize at first that this was for Remedial Comics. >_> I did some of your turnarounds over the summer and honestly, the $20 you were paying for those wasn't really a fair wage either, not for how picky you were and how many corrections you wanted.
$5 is dirt cheap. It's less than minimum hourly wage. To do a 3-4 panel strip, inked and colored, is going to take way more than an hour. I understand if you're funding it all personally that you might not have the cash to pay a lot, but at least make it worth the artist's time. And that means a reasonable wage for a skilled job ($10-15 an hour).
Well they weren't turnarounds they were rotoscopes. I thought I made the difference and the necessity for correct detail clear. As with all jobs no one put a gun to your head and I believe I paid you as agreed for the work you did (with the possible exception of the last piece which was never finished).
You seem to be really hung up on this hourly rate as if I'm hiring someone to do a job. I'm not. I'm looking to bring in an artistic partner. While the back end profit possibilities are on spec they are there. The per strip rate is simply something of an incentive so that the artist feels he/she is getting something for his/her work up front.
And as I've said already, I have access to a large body of webcomics creators and artists. I know what the market will bear. I've already had several interested parties contact me and am in the process of selecting the best fit from the bunch.
No one is asking you to work for this money. If you are so against the amount I'm not even sure why you are here. Did I mistreat you in some way? Do you feel the need to warn others of this mistreatment?
The first time I replied to the post I didn't even see that it was for your comic, only that it was yet another job offer on dA offering an unfair wage. I generally do comment to point out to the offerer how insulting the low prices are and how unlikely they will be to get a good artist for next to nothing.
If you want someone to be an 'artistic partner' and put all the life and soul they can into the work, it would certainly help if you respected the artists and their effort enough to pay them what they're worth. You may not see this as a job, but art is work and any art on commission is a job. When artists aren't vigilant about making sure they get paid a fair amount, they get ripped off. So yes, in that sense I do want to warn others.
Just because you've found people to work for pennies doesn't mean it's a fair wage, whatever your web community says. How experienced art the artists on that site? How aware are they of professional rates? A lot of artists simply don't realize how much their art and work is worth. Those people get taken advantage of.
If you want an equal partner than treat them like an equal and respect their work. Or at least if you know you can't pay much, acknowledge that it's not really fair. But pretending like artists should accept a tiny bit of pay and be grateful even for that is a bit insulting.
You want to talk about insulting? How about entering a post where you have no interest in the offer simply to voice your opinion of the offer?
Or maybe this; how's this for insulting... an artist assuming that the years I've spent building a community, gathering assets and contacts, building and maintaining a website and my not inconsiderable writing skills are not worth as much as they might have to offer to a partnership and therefore they deserve additional, up front remuneration?
I have had enough of whiny, overindulged, self delusional artists telling me what I should pay them for their work.
This is a capitalist economy. I offer to pay what I can afford and what I feel the work is worth. An artist can either accept the role and enter into the partnership or they can go looking elsewhere for more money. That's their decision. It's called free will.
This idea that you need to save them by telling everyone how unfair the wage is, is utter nonsense. What's next? Will you be combing through the want ads and calling up anyone with a printed ad and telling them they aren't paying enough? Perhaps moving on to Monster.com after that? You can become the authority on what is and what it not fair pay and all shall bend to your will. Come to think if it, I wish I had someone like you in the room when I negotiated my salary at my last job. I really felt like I was taken advantage of there.
But then I agreed to the pay, so I did the work and I didn't gripe about it. Because that's the way it works.
I didn't take advantage of you and I'm not looking to take advantage of anyone else.
Spec work is not the devil you folks like to pretend it is. Ask almost any working webcartoonist today and they will tell you they got to where they were by either doing it themselves or entering into a partnership with someone on a project they believed in and in almost every single case they busted their ass for peanuts in the beginning because when you are building an original IP and no one has any money that is how it is done.
If you know any venture capitalists looking to kick in on a starter webcomic please send them my way. Otherwise, this is pretty much how it goes.
No one will hand you something for nothing in this life. You have to work for it. And if you want to be your own boss and become a professional in this field then I can help you and I'll do my damnedest to make it happen for both of us. If you are just looking for a paycheck you are in the wrong thread. It's hard, doing it after your job, staying up late, traveling when you don't want to and sometimes frustratingly insane work.
But I'm willing to do the work too (and have been already for some time) and I'm willing to give you a little kicking around money as a sign of good will. That's my offer. That's what I'm here for.
If you aren't interested then I go in peace. All I ask is that you leave me with the same consideration.
Your comments about "whiny, self-delusional" artists pretty much tell me exactly how much respect you have for my profession. Clearly I'm not going to convince you otherwise. But I now think I see why you lost your previous artist, and why it's been nearly a year without finding a replacement.
Good luck on finding and keeping an artist, but if that's your attitude, I don't think you'll have much of it.
My previous artist left because he lost his job and had to move. Life gets in the way sometimes. He was doing excellent work and he was doing it completely free.
My comment about whiny, delusional artists was and is restricted entirely to those who think they can advocate on behalf of their profession simply because they don't agree with a deal.
Believe me, I know you are not alone in your feelings. I've dealt with more than a few outspoken folks such as yourself which is exactly why I reacted the way I did. I'm tired of the debate. You and those like you have no stake in it other than the amorphous idea that the world would be a better place for artists if people paid more for art... or to state more exactly, what you think your time and work are worth.
But that's not how a free market economy works. You earn what you negotiate and you negotiate what the market will bear.
If every artist was unwilling to work for the small amounts what you would have is a whole lot more artists with a whole lot more unpaid time on their hands. Because not everyone can afford $50 for a commissioned portrait for their girlfriend.
I have a great deal of respect for professional artists. I know many and am friends with more than a few. And in every case they either created their projects themselves or joined up with someone they believed in and worked their butts off to make it happen.
The artists I have a problem with are the the ones who think they need to advocate on behalf of everyone who ever picked up a pencil when their input is neither warranted nor wanted.