I think the issue here is: the price of the page-rate is for quality of work, my friend; if you pay 10 times less you'll get something of ten times less quality, or you'll get a flake or a deadline failure. It's immature to say you'll pay someone less because they need it less; work is work in any culture. If you want top-dollar work, you've gotta pay top-dollar. Good luck.
I was wondering if you intend to cover other genres (eg military space-opera) or are focusing solely on contemporary (ie Irak) war comics. You can check out my gallery here: [link] [link] [link] I haven't got a lot of sequential art online (although I could send you some pages), but you can see some storyboards and such on my scraps gallery: [link]
Someone does all the work for you, and you will pay them after it's all been published, based on how much it makes....I mean, in the real world, you pay someone at least a lil' bit up front. If you didn't, artists would be dead, not starving (if they have to wait for months, if not years to get paid on each gig, their first year out on their own would be unlivable without taking out a loan, and after that, if they failed to keep a constant flow of jobs going, even one screw up would result in needing another loan (with no way to pay off the first loan to begin with)).
But the next part is interesting...I know for a fact that rent where I live in the US right now is 800/month, while where we used to live it was only 400/month. So, would you pay me enough to sustain me in my current housing situation, or is that borderline 'too rich'?
Furthermore, cost of living changes by area in America. Someone living in a cheap, 80/month apartment who grows their own food, would have a much, much lower cost of living than someone living in a 1200/month apartment in San Diego. So, which America are you paying for? Arguably the penny pinching first one would get away with a huge profit, while the San Diego one would probably barely be able to scrape by.
And the reason why a third world country remains third world, is because its' people are treated poorly by 'superior' (and I use that term loosely, O American Idol morons) countries. Why pay them the same as us when they clearly live somewhere more broke than us?
I weep for the future, because this superior primate slashes up chunks of land and claims which ones should be allowed to live well, and which ones need to remain treated poorly. It's the idea that a well made product could be made in America and sell for $200, while the same product could be made in Mexico and sell for $10. The general idea is that birthplace = birthright; be born here, and you deserve less than being born there.
But yes, let's continue to sell the idea that Americans deserve to be paid more, while people in third world countries deserve to be paid less.
Actually in the real world almost everyone works first and then get paid. Artists are the only ones who seem to think it is their right to get paid (imagine a waitress who demanded her tip before you even ordered).
Oh and pat yourself on the back for being anti-American. Such a brave stance and so fashionable.
Actually, in the -real- real world, people get paid in the following ways: hourly wages, weekly paychecks. Or do you just get paychecks at the end of the year? Boy that must be weird, getting paid $100 per job at the end of the year (actually, most jobs offered to artists are $50 or less; imagine if we all got paid after the fact on $5 art work). Must make surviving the next year difficult, especially if any of those jobs flake out.
Keep in mind that people get paid -during- their job, not once they quit their job.
The reason why artists get paid up front (and not ALL of the pay, it is usually split half up front, half at the end), is because some people just take the art and run. Someone who demands that the artist get paid at the end, raises two warning flags: first of all, they could just take the art and run (especially if they have a vendetta against artists), and second of all, they will be extremely rude if asked to reach a middle ground.
Let's take a look at you, for example. You want to pay the artist at the end, because artists not on this site stopped working for you after you paid them. Instead of reaching a middle ground of paying them a little bit up front and paying the rest at the end, you proceeded to insult all of the artists that dared challenge you, and even became borderline bigoted in some comments about third world country folk.
I think it's cute though, that you had no real comment about what I said. All you can say is that I am anti-American; funny, 'cause I am American. I'm anti-American Idol fans, is all. It's outrageous that more people voted on that than the next president. That also shows what your 'superior' country thinks is important: a bunch of pop-wannabees howling along to songs other pop artists wrote, only to fall to obscurity immediately after the show ends.
As I said, I'm not anti-American. I'm anti-your school of thought. Chew on that for a while (how's your artist hunt going, by the way? Getting lots of artists to work with you? I'm sure your little temper tantrum here is showing your winning personality in a team environment).
You can't sue somebody who you haven't hired through contract. You define "unprofessional" sir. An artist is payed for the work he does, not based on where he lives. You really need an reality check dude, or go do some work yourself. Especially some art-form where skill is the only thing that will get you a job.
It really sucks to see how a publisher can have such shitty attitude. And your business method must have been really bad planned. -First you work ( or take a loan. ), in whatever way you get money, then you start up a business , hire artists, get more profit, hire more artists.. and so on -
-get artist for free, try to force him to work for free to make money for YOU, project fails or gives no profit, try to get more artists to work for free and so on -
As I thought. You have no arguments, you're just another self-centered, bigoted motherfucker. In other words, you're just defending him because you identified yourself with his fucked up sentiments, and you don't really have a point (because honestly, the argument you're trying to come up with was at the very least, how can I put this, wrong).
And as I thought, you are coming out with baseless assumptions. I don't have anything to prove to you. Our opinions are gonna differ greatly and there is no sense in arguing with a stone. So you can act like a child, or you can grow up and talk like an adult. Troll more imo...I'm sure it makes you feel better.
Oh, but you have. Sure, let us ignore the fact that it was you who posted calling us ignorant, doesn't explains yourself, then backs off cowardly and tries to suddenly act mature and collected just because you realized you don't have any argument to base your shitty OPPINIONS - and by the way, I find highly ironic that you would now call "oppinion" what you once implied to be fact.
So yes, let YOU tell ME about growing up and talking like an adult.
I never once lost my cool, or openly insulted anyone. I agree that the original poster is an asshole and Isn't quite "politically correct" but what's even worse are the people getting completely bent out of shape because of it. And keep up with the cussing and name calling, I'm sure that's behavior of an adult. And again, I never said my opinion on the matter is fact. Please try and find where I said things as "fact".
these people (...) that don't know what basic currency conversion is
If we don't know, then you are implying that you do, and thus, that you know a fact that we don't. Yet, you didn't explain neither did you change your mind about it, you're just vaguely stating that we are ignorant without pointing out why.
No professional would take a back end deal. If you are untrusting you should explain that to a potential artists and then maybe work out a page at a time payment plan. The guys I used to work for would give me three pages to do, then they would pay me, then I would start the next three pages. I'd be interested in working with you, but not on a back end deal. I've been put in a bad spot waaaay too many times now. Good luck.
lol after reading all these message reply to your job offer i found it really amusing, it is true u can get amazingly low cost to complete your goal rather than finding the state artist to do the same thing.
it's true coz i worked in mutiple art gallery and they seem to hire chinese artist to do the oil paint work for 50 dollars USD and sell it for 1000+, obivously i wouldn't do something like that for the same amount that i live in states. and they did an amazing job on it, so ya, it's reality u gotta face it.
as for artist not showing up, i feel you for that. because among some of the manga project i was in, my partners are highschool student mix with college/university student, they ran off on me not just one time but for serveral times, i ended up have to clean their arse by doing their portion as well, it's quite furstrating especially the person handling the main role of the art, it's hard to simulate the style and it might come out completely different from the last issue, ya , i really do suggest you to establish a contract before u even start this thing.
i would be interested in your project if it wasn't a back-end deal, coz those kinda deals you can easily find it from ANY publisher out there, i do mean ANY, game magazines, gaming websites, anime related sites, they all would love some theme manga to accompany with, but paying you upfront is another story, every publisher wants a back-end deal coz they dunno the outcome of the manga, so is the artist. somebody gotta take the risk, but as for me it isn't my cup of tea.
anyway it may seem pointless for me to type these replies, i just feel like u r someone who suffered same fate as my friend, who is running a publishing company oversea. the 30 page manga took 5 months only finished 7 pages and the crews were changes over 10 times. and i was there to see this happen lol. ah well, good luck with it though.
"anyway it may seem pointless for me to type these replies, i just feel like u r someone who suffered same fate as my friend, who is running a publishing company oversea. the 30 page manga took 5 months only finished 7 pages and the crews were changes over 10 times. and i was there to see this happen lol. ah well, good luck with it though. "
Thank you. I started out by pre-paying all artists and I always got screwed. I never stiffed an artist in my life. In return, I had my good faith and money wasted.
..what do you guys think does the industy doe?..why come your nikea shoes or the animation sequences from your loved cartoon series which are "produced" in the usa...from india/japan or a other poor land ? sure its not right because where all the same...no were not! thats life i know it sucks but yes it is so that you give a guy who works on a farm here ( in my case germany) more money then a guy who works in ukbekistan...also called outsourcing. no one have to deal with him when you think he is an id*ot or f++l ...dont attack people and do the same by buying stuff which is produced in poor countrys for you.
People in poorer countries ACCEPT lower payments for many reasons, it's not the payer who goes there and say: "Where do you live? Here? Ah, great, if so I'm cutting your wage by half". It's the fact that they take advantage of them to offer much lower payments.
What makes this guy such a dick is that he is clearly and openly intending to change wages if a guy is from a different place or, in his case, pays a different rent than his. Which is ridiculous.
i am not from a poor country but i must get lower payment (euro /usd echange and living costs here) so its not just poor countrys . ...there a lot of people here who ask for people who came from theire country --- lets say indian people who would work for them..
they ask it because they know how that they dont must pay them so much like a guy in a other country like usa england or whatever...in his case i think it whas realy badly formulated but its nothing more then a "job" offer..and you see it here in public that there still a few people who are interested to it..who knows how much notes he have become---when you dont like what he wrote let him be and go your way..i for myself wouldnt work for the kind of payment he offer and i think its ok for everyone to choose if they want to reply on such a offer or not...but there is no need to discuss this here so large..its a job offerforum nothing more..and as i said before the most job offers here arent good ones..
There's nothing wrong on preffering to work with people from their own country, what pisses me off is his self-righteous xenophobic attitude to think that everybody else should get less payment and that it is his prerrogative to dictate that and to feel that he's right for doing so.
he just wanted to pay less to the peoples who live in "poor" countrys ...i understand you and why your angry but ...its a job thread not more...i think this should be closed because it looks like a neverending story
I understand what you mean when they base their rates off of someone elses currency. our dollar is falling and our housing is rising so we make nothing. and while their currency is fine and their rated are lower then hell they make bank saying that they should get the same compensation that other artists are offering. but artitsts are offering what they price wise are to survive. im sure if things cost far less here people wouldnt charge as much. its inflation. alot of other contries dont have it but are suckin off it in the art world.
Id apply but dont have any sequential pages. *notes to make some*.
First: Yeah, housing may cost more for you. But you do realize EVERYTHING ELSE costs more in developing contries, right?
Americans like to whine about how their economy is failing and apocalypse is upon them and BOO-HOO but they are so damn self-centered they don't see how other countries struggle much more than they do, financially. Do you know how much the cheapest Wacom tablet costs in brazil, for example? About R$ 500.
That whole logic to pay less for poor countries just doesn't makes absolutely any sense. In fact, it would be fairer to pay MORE to compensate all the shit they have to live with.
Second: As I said, judging wage from nationality is fucked up and is prejudice. You're gonna pay someone less than you would FOR ANY OTHER AMERICAN, why? Just because he lives in another place and is poorer than you. Oh, I am sorry, please leave your money to someone richer.
ok so what they would charge in their country (their prices based off their economy and price of living) they are allowed to up a ton when they work with someone who lives in a country with a stronger currency? so can I up my prices if i deal with someone in Europe?