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November 14, 2012
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turntables are expensive?

:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Hi everyone!?
For a while now i want to find myself a turntable to ear that "authentic warmness" that everyone is talking about when it comes to turntables. So i shop a bit and every place i went they told i can find a good one 200$ MINIMUM (around 400$). So here's my question: can you explain to me in a common language why is it a much higher price to have a turntable when you can buy a cd player that haves the best quality sound you can find? Is it because of something about digital vs analog sound?
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Professional General Artist
You can get a decent phonograph for cheaper, but if you are looking for higher quality audio or DJ grade (direct drive) you definitely pay extra.

Your argument holds about as well as saying a Miata competes with a high end Veyron. Both get you from A to B...but not with the same style, class or overall experience.
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
hahaha i was just saying the same comparison to my friend the other day about the different parts of the system i need to get what i want :p
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:iconhotelchelseanights:
HotelChelseaNights Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
There's a lot of correct info here, a lot of not so and a whole, whole lot missing. First off, and I cannot and will not go into much detail unless you ask for more, CD's are a digital format, and a compressed format, and no matter what the digital format it is compressed, FLAC, APE, ets... a compressed any thing is missing information, it is not a true to source sound file, even if you convert the file back to analog that missing information is gone forever, same reason so many still love film photography it just has a soul that is lost forever in the 1's and 0's. As a music/emotional junkie, not an aficionado, a junkie, I need it. In an sufficiently set up analog system, and I mean system, sorry merely buying a decent table cartridge and stylus(needle) will not get it, but is one step in the right direction if you wanna stop there, just stop there and don't get me wrong if I was willing or able to make the investments, I will still be burning the life out of my CD's and if I had never heard the soul I feel with a passable analog set up be no less content/crazy. But as a music junkie the way I can describe it for me is, were I to hear to say a beautiful violin piece, just magic to my ears, make my eye's go moist, well a good analog set up might make me feel every winding on that violin string vibrate or feel every bump, or broken hair, the slickness of rosin of that bow, pull across my heart with the passion of a loves the likes of Don Juan would be envious, my heart yes the actual organ itself. To much Blah, Blah, Blah... turn back now, there are some AMAZING! digital reproduction out there.
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
i understand everything you said. But back to my main question, and still i guess, we have to put more investment in an analog based sound system than digital?
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:iconhotelchelseanights:
HotelChelseaNights Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
It depends on how far you want to go. Even with the loss and yes lossy and lossless are compressed (information for those who may not know). It really is an individual experience. Alright cutting it short. Basic set up for turntable analogs, Turntable, Phono Pre-amp, Pre-amp if you intend to use more than one source, Amp, Speaker cables, Speakers, various interconnects. Digital system, Ipod - Computer+Storage or whatever source you are choosing, DAC, Pre-amp if you intend to use more than one source, Amp, Speaker cables, Speakers, various interconnects. Can be put together for same price. If you use a Source/Pre/Amp in one such as a Sony/ Denon/ Marantz/ whatever the brand you will cut costs phenomenally. You still need speakers which color the sound, speakers referred to as monitors tend to do this the least. And speaker cable. Does this help at all? The thing is all these components affect each others sound immensely. As for the "authentic warmness" that's a whole different conversation. A solid state amp with monitors will probably bring you closest to the sound of the original recording and is usually cheapest. A tube amp will color the sound, give you the warmness you may be speaking about.
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
any tube amp you can suggest me in the 0-1000 category? loll
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:iconhotelchelseanights:
HotelChelseaNights Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
I'm sorry most of my stereo experience is with solid state amps, and currently I am more interested in investing my money and luck in a different pair of speakers. The is a lot of good used equipment in the under $1000 range. I would not recommend to you at the moment spending more than that, It may not be the sound you are looking for. although your resale should be close to what you paid for it used, and the used market is very recyclable.
I would suggest doing some research of your own !. hear it in person, take a good copy of the music you enjoy and visit higher end equipment suppliers and have a listen for yourself, as no sane persons opinion is more valuable that your own ears. 2. there are quite a few good forums around. I would try Audiogon.com first. You many find many helpful opinions there, as well as find used equipment at reasonable price and condition form people with a little incentive to give a "fair" price, and not a lemon. You may wind up with a set up you can enjoy for years, or you may wind up on a years/life long hunt for exactly the right sound. for me the is a monetary limit to this, and you may create the perfect sound for you. Seems to me some people spend extreme a mounts for so called accuracy, clarity and warmth only to create something that was never there to begin with.

0-1000 check Audiogon, etc...
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:iconhotelchelseanights:
HotelChelseaNights Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
Sorry Typo, If I was NOT willing to make the investment. Oh If your into the club thing, no disrespect as all, stick with the CD's, You will not gain a thing going analog or miss a thing and have a whole lot more music to spend on music. If you are spinning records at a club get a used direct drive turntable maybe $400(used) with a quality med to med/heavy arm a good cart and stylus $125-250 tops Stanton or Ortofon may come with table and enjoy as anything more will be lost by the dynamics of the speakers that will be used in a club. It's ALL good baby.
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:iconbadgercheese1994:
Badgercheese1994 Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Student General Artist
Ya wanna talk expensive? Drums ._. those things cost a ton!
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:iconangelxxuan:
angelxxuan Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Student General Artist
a good one with all the bells and whistles, yes is going to be pricy. but you can find ones for small prices with plug in adapters, there's also used ones as well as old record players that you can later tweak to your own liking. I prefer the ones with the adapter plug ins and they are under a hundred dollars, a few places I've been they have been under 50 dollars. now the adapters could run pricy, like speakers, etc but it's all your call as to what you're going to do and how personal you're going to get with it.
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:iconergasterd:
ergasterd Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
$200 is not expensive for a turntable. I would not pay less than that. There are rather a few more moving mechanical bits and pieces than in a cd player, and to get good sound out of your albums you need to minimize the sorts of noises that can get transferred through the pickup, things like rumble and wow--noises made by the motor that spins the platter. You also need a decent tonearm--the thing that holds the cartride.

That said, you don't have to go crazy and spend much more than $200 for the table itself, you want to put your money into the cartridge. That is what picks up the sound, and if that is crap it doesn't matter how much you have spent on the rest of it. $100 - $200 is the minimum you should spend on that tiny little thing (I'm perfectly serious).

In other words, to get the sound of vinyl, you have to invest in it.
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:iconredmarlin:
redmarlin Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
It's because they're soooo vintage :iconhipsterplz: If you shop around, you can probably find a cheaper one, but it won't be as decorative. But I agree, it's stupid to demand such high prices for such a simple device. Good thing my family already has one...
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:iconwolfyspice:
WolfySpice Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
It's old technology. Try finding a video or audio cassette player. Same thing.
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
but it's not the same need.
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:iconfngrscr8dstroui:
fngrscr8dstroui Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
Mostly what FutureReagan said; there's a history to the medium and its culture that commands that price today. Plus, that hardware is getting harder and harder to come by b/c the commercial market for it is practically nonexistent.
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
J'me suis fait dire que la qualité des vinyles avait plus de potentiel qu'un disque numérique... pis oui c'est cher! Pour vrai j'ai deux 33/45 tours... si t'était dans l'boute j't'en aurait bin donné un! ah!
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:iconajglass:
AJGlass Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
I don't have anything against your language, but just so you know:

FAQ #801: Are there any rules for the Forums?

:bulletred: Please post only in the English Language
While we respect the fact that deviantART is a global community we need to ensure that all posts are in English so that the forums can be properly moderated. If you wish to post a thread in another language you can use the Forum Widget on your main page (if you have a premium membership).
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
LOL! Hé, monsieur.
Uno: I didn't know this was on a forum. It appeared in my watch thing, and replied directly from it. How was I supposed to know?
Secondo: This guy's first language is french, so I can't talk to a french-canadian bro in french? What kind of nazi are you...?
Turd: I don't care about a discriminatory rule. I'm sure you can understand that.
Four: ~Eddy-all-die-for (the one who started the thread) replied to me in french... please arrest him!! (¬¬)

...control freak.
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:iconajglass:
AJGlass Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
:lol:

I'll just say that it's not my rule.

If I had my way, we'd all be speaking Klingon.

Got that, pataQ!?
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
haha
t une vieille pookie de biker s'a poud
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
loll j'ai bien rit quand j'ai lu vos répliques, tu lui as bien répondu ils se pensent tellement le nombrils de la terre.

lolll i really laugh when i red what you said to each other.
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
en effet!
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
haha merci! Mais tu veux dire des disques ou une table tournable? Tu habites dans quel coin?
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
Une table tournante. Saint-Germain-de-Grantham, à proximité de Drummondville!
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
La qualité du son est pas top top comme un énorme système de son mais ils jouent les disques très bien. (Un vieux Emerson pis l'autre yé chez mes parents alors j'me souviens pas trop trop c'est quoi)
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Bin je sais pas, c'est sur que je refuserais rien pour avoir un point de départ, mais comme tu connais mon but, je me renseignerais peut-être sur le modèle, si tu es sérieux :p
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
oui oui jsuis sérieux, mais j'va étudier ça plus demain si tu me permets! (yé 1:34)
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
ouais loll et je me sens stupide de pas avoir demandé à ma mère si elle en avait une XD On se recontact en inbox ;)
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:iconhyakulegger:
hyakulegger Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
bin demande-y! peut-être que ça va m'sauver la mienne! ;^)
haha ok c'est bon on se recontact bientôt
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(1 Reply)
:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
It's because no one listens to records anymore
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:iconfuturereagan:
FutureReagan Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
It's because you have no idea what you are talking about, guy.
Anywho, cd's are a digital format. Vinyl is analog, analog requires more moving parts and physical contact. This means you get what you pay for. A cd on literally any cd player will sound the same, but a record with a top of the line turntable/cartridge will produce a much better sound than the kind they sell at walmart.
Plain language: Vinyl completely reproduces the sound as it was heard in the recording studio, while cd's contain that same analog sound and compresses it to digital. Cd's sound clearer, but if you are dead set on the full experience then go for vinyl. Analog contains the full sound. Cd's while clearer in sound,require little maintenance, but do not provide the same "oomph" of vinyl.
It's expensive, yes, but in the long run it will reward you if you are serious about your music. I've only got about 100 or so records, not worth going balls out on a really nice setup. But I'm content with what I have...for now!
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:iconfngrscr8dstroui:
fngrscr8dstroui Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Professional General Artist
A while ago I'd of wholeheartedly agree w/ this, but I do think digital audio is making big gains these days. You combine uncompressed losless formats like WAV, FLAC and AIFF, and combine that with the storage medium of Blu-Ray and you may have something about as comparable to a vinyl. Of course, it still matters a lot what sound system and sound card you're using, too.

I don't think there's ever gonna be a big consumer-level market for uncompressed digital music, but there could be for mid-level djs and sound engineers. Maybe. And just having blu-ray become more affordable w/ a losless audio format adaptable for any playback device (so you can immediately could AIFF out, hah), maybe gets somewhere.

Personally, tho, I would always like to choose the vinyl. Warm, solid feeling with physical presence.
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:iconfzang:
Fzang Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Hobbyist
No one can tell the difference past "CD quality", so approaching a bit rate nearing infinite, so that you'd need to store songs on bluray, would be a massive waste.
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:iconfngrscr8dstroui:
fngrscr8dstroui Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Professional General Artist
But isn't there still a difference btwn the quality from a CD vs. a vinyl? I mean, if there is it probably isn't that big, yeah, but maybe something like blu-ray would still be beneficial, if only for the amount of data it can read at once.

Willing to concede, tho, that it could be ridiculous all the same. I don't think AIFF and WAV files, for example, go pass 100MB on average, so maybe a solution'd rest more on the stereo setup.
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:iconfzang:
Fzang Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2012  Hobbyist
This is the difference between analog/digital: [link]

To approach "vinyl quality" (that is, analog), you must have a digital bit rate that is so infinitely high that the squares you see on the graph are so infinitely small that they appear as a smooth curve.
When you play digital music, it gets converted to analog, and the conversion will be more or less precisely matching the "true analog" curve, depending on the digital source and the hardware that does the conversion.

But "CD quality" has proven to be good enough to be indistinguishable from "true analog", so that's why it's useless to increase quality further.
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:iconfngrscr8dstroui:
fngrscr8dstroui Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2012  Professional General Artist
So blu-ray really would be useless then after all.

Still tho, wouldn't there be a distinguishable difference if one were using equipment playing in a large open-room arena w/ the best sound system setup,..to the trained ear? Or maybe I'm just over-thinking this (or under-thinking, I suppose :3).
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:iconfzang:
Fzang Featured By Owner Nov 18, 2012  Hobbyist
I think you're over-thinking it :p

Large open areas sound less "precise" than a couple of good headphones. The sound waves bounce and reverb all over in much more unpredictable ways.

Imagine "above 16 bit depth music" as a spectrum that is unavailable to your ears. It's like X-rays. No matter how powerful or large a beam you have, you will NEVER be able to see it with your eyes. They just don't have that capability.
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(1 Reply)
:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
yeah but yet again, what is a price of a amp combined to a digital to analog converter (i dont remind the name of the hardware lol) VS a good turntables? Seriously i'm pretty lost now!!! Uh :''''''(

I don't where to find the info: i heard that if you want to fully gain quality from digital sound you need to find a amplifier that goes with the genre of music you listen. And i can only find info about those who listen to rock jazz or classic.

But i think for what it's for the digital hardware it would be better to start another thread :/ even if it starts from the same needs ;)
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:iconfngrscr8dstroui:
fngrscr8dstroui Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Professional General Artist
Probably a lot, for a good one xD. Keeping in mind the brands of course and what you want.

There should be some websites you can use. Any sites focused on electronic music and equipment may work. If you know some artists you like, ask them on FB or Twitter. Or use Google ;)
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
you mean like this one? -> [link]
let's laugh a bit now.......
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:iconfngrscr8dstroui:
fngrscr8dstroui Featured By Owner Nov 17, 2012  Professional General Artist
That 'Thunder' model looks like an absolute beast!

Quick Google search that may be of some use to you here !
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
i need to tell that my sound card is really bad from my imac + where i put my headphones it as surround by aluminum (i think it cause magnetic conduction) = WHITE NOISE.
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
You didn't understand my point at all, great job...

No one listens to records anymore. It's a niche market now. They won't sell as many record players as a result of more people buying CDs, and now people buying music through digital downloads. It's not about quality, it's about convenience. 256kbps is good enough for the majority of people anyways, and they can stick a few thousand songs in their iPod and go.
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:iconergasterd:
ergasterd Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
We understood your point. It's just wrong. Vinyl doesn't sell as much these days as digital does, but the volume of sales have been steadily increasing every year, to the point where major music stores now have entire vinyl sections for *NEW* (not used) vinyl. Established artists are beginning to release vinyl along with their cd releases, and independent and smaller artists have been doing that for years. Most new vinyl releases come with a digital download code. Turntables are reappearing in the audio shops.

There will always be people who don't give a crap about how things sound, but that's not the point either. It's a niche market, but that niche is growing. Make no mistake.
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012
The point is unless there is a big enough market, hardware producers are still going to want to make a profit. Since there isn't much competition, they're free to set their own prices. Once vinyl matches CD and digital sales, then we might see a difference.
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:iconeddy-all-die-for:
Eddy-all-die-for Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
are you trolling or what? You cannot figure in my intro that i was a type of guy who's searching for quality sound. You know, not like "the majority of people"... That's why i started a thread. If you want to tell these things that i and mostly anyone who answer to me already know, you can just tell it to yourself and everyone will be good with this :)
Thank you for wasting my time.
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
I was explaining why it's so difficult to find an affordable turntable. If you can't get that from what I wrote, you're kind of a lost cause :shrug:
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:iconfuturereagan:
FutureReagan Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
See, if you had said "vinyl is a niche market", it would have still been dumb but a lot less ignorant than a blanket statement such as "no one listens to records anymore".
For someone who is interested in the format and is asking about it, "no one listens to records" is extremely unhelpful.
I'm sorry there are people out there who choose quality over convenience and don't share the same views as you.
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2012
OP asked why it's so difficult to find an affordable turntable, so I explained why that is, in a short statement :lol: But I'm sorry if a snarky comment like that is too ignorant
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:iconfuturereagan:
FutureReagan Featured By Owner Nov 14, 2012
Find a used record store in your area, or search ebay or resale shops. You can get really nice turntables at a huge discount if you get one used. Just be careful you aren't getting a lemon!
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