The main thing we have to remember about Sora and Kingdom Hearts in general, is that it IS just a game. A fun game and with interesting characters. No matter if you love the Organization and the Heartless and all the villains (yes, I'm one of those) or you just love the Hero and all that he represents (yep, I'm on that side, too), it's a game.

Now, getting that out of the way--

I realize Sora has faults--that's one of the reasons why I like him. He's a KID in the game; fourteen-ish when he first starts out. His world is destroyed, his best friends are missing and he's given this key and told "well, you're the only one that can do this." I'm not sure how I would react in that type of situation, but Sora handles it remarkably well.

That may be seen as a "well, that's not fair and so on.. " but in the terms of game-universe, this is what makes Sora so special. It's his heart that makes it possible for him to accept his companions and his mission, if you remember, he didn't want at first. He didn't understand why he had it, but his heart is strong enough.

No matter how much one likes the Nobodies (and believe me, I <3 thing muchly) they're still 'heartless' creatures. They like to manipulate and hurt people. The first six helped destroy a good chunk of Radiant Garden/Hollow Bastion. They helped set Heartless on the worlds. Yes, all of them want their hearts back. Maybe one of them lost their heart in a sacrifice, such as Sora lost his. But they still have hurt and killed worlds and people to achieve their goal.

They used Sora, they used Roxas, even--the power of the Keyblade was how they could get to where they wanted to be. They were very skilled at what they did.

Let see.... some things pointed out was how hypocritical that Sora was, how he was terrible at just following orders. He's fourteen-fifteen-sixteen (at the most) and in a strange set of worlds with a mission thrust upon him. He's going to have to listen to other people's advice. He's a kid and there are people he thinks that know better than he does.

I personally think Sora's adorable and love his cocky attitude that just shouts "teenager!" and not "I'm so great, cause I'm the hero of everything." If he wasn't confident, if he descended into wailing and weeping as so many fanfic writers depict him as, the worlds would be screwed as a whole. He did have moments of being unsure of himself, of missing his friends, but he had to push that all aside.

But anyways-- yes; Sora is a good kid, strong heart and above all, he's still a video game character. You can love him or hate him, but let's not get uptight over how much you hate or love him.

Shoot, let's see...time for Kai to bring out his true argumentative colors. Lazuli24 is totally right, Kingdom Hearts is just a game, and a fun one at that. So, being that it is, I figure I should share my ideas on the situation.

Sora, when you start out in Kingdom Hearts, is a thirteen year old boy living on a small island. He doesn't have anything wrong with him. No special powers, no super attributes, he's just an ordinary boy. He even still has his parents, a not so common fact for heroes in video games. He lives his daily life playing with his small group of friends and dreaming of other places, just as any child does. This single fact makes him one of the most interesting and realistic heroes anywhere. Something I wish more games would get across is not everybody has a story! Not everyone is an orphan who was mistreated, lived on the streets, became an assassin and all of the usual things. Nope, none of that, he's just a regular kid.

So, Sora's island is attacked at night, though at first he just thinks it's a storm. First thing he does is get out of bed and run outside. "Oh yes, I'm the hero, I have to save the day!" Nope, sorry, not Sora. First thing he's doing is running to make sure his boat's safe! It isn't until then that he realizes that small shadow creatures are scurrying around everywhere. "Now the monster killing begins!" Nope again, now he wants to make sure his friends are safe, so he runs to their secret place. He gets there and some dude's standing around in a cloak. Regular? No, but he doesn't attack him, he asks what in god's name he's doing there and who he is. During the process of all of this, his friend Kairi is blasted towards him by a door and disappears, and his friend Riku has gone up a few notches on the creepy factor and starts inviting the darkness. Here's another part to show Sora's normal. He doesn't go, "No, darkness is bad!" Pfft, uh uh, he reaches out his hand to go WITH Riku! Unfortunately for him, he's still a kid and has shorter arms, so he doesn't make it. Only after all of that does he get the keyblade and concentrate on saving himself.

Now that we see that Sora's just a kid and not the standard "Here I come to save the day!" kind of hero, let's talk about the bad guys. First off, the Heartless. Heartless are little creatures that are the end result of people losing their hearts to, basically, the 7 sins. In one way or another, they become blackened and lose their heart, thus shaping them into their true nature. I believe that's why there are different sorts of heartless and not just the normal shadow. Now not all people were corrupt. Some people had their hearts stolen by the Heartless and became one that way. Even Sora loses his heart at on point to revive Kairi, but he's returned to normal when his friends find him and immediately recognize him, and even protect him! The Heartless, from what I can tell, are the emotions of the people who's hearts were stolen, which would be why they're so unpredictable and often very jagged in shape.

Next are the Nobodies, the bodies of the people who've lost their hearts. Empty husks with no emotion, the Nobodies are smarter more calculating and intelligent without the weighted emotions holding them down. Their common white color signifies their lack of flavor for life and once again, lack of emotion. (That's what I think anyway) Each type of Nobody is controlled by one superior, so there are far less of them than Heartless.

The Organization XIII, Nobodies who've managed to keep a human shape and nature. Still missing their hearts, they somehow seem to get most of their emotions back, even love (for Axel, anyway. I dislike yaoi as much as the next guy, but even I'll admit Axel's totally gay for Roxas). I completely LOVE these guys. Each of them has their own personality, and for the most part, they're not the stereotypical, "I want to rule the world!" kind of bad guys. Not once do you hear about them wanting to turn the world into darkness, or make everyone a nobody, uh uh, the only thing you ever hear is that they want their hearts back. Yeah, they WANT to be human! In a sense they're not evil at all, they're just trying to get back what they need to reclaim their personal light. If you look at it from their stand point, they're just like Sora. Sora kills the heartless to bring back the worlds from their light, the Organization XIII kills what they must to get back their own hearts, their own light.

I was really just going to talk about Sora, but well, the whole game is just so good to talk about I couldn't help myself. In a sense, everybody's the bad guy, but no one is really that bad. Well....Larxene may be bad.......really bad XD But I love that girl more than anyone else in the game <3 (it killed me to have to annihilate her in Chain of Memories, and see someone else do it to her again in RE: Chain of Memories ><. Even the baddest of the bad, like Maleficent and Pete, end up helping you. (Maleficent actually helped twice!). -ahem- Anyway, Sora's still going to be one of my favorite heroes in any game or movie. The only one I can see topping him is Link from Legend of Zelda, but then again, they've got pretty much the same thing going on. (Friends, no terrible back story. Only thing making them fight is some force saying "You're chosen." and the courage in their hearts.) But anyway, Sora just really isn't someone I see as a bad guy. If you can provide me with a good reason, sure, I'll accept it, but it better be a damn good reason. >

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There's one rule that applies to anything and everything in life; If it doesn't work for you, burn it.

I'd also like to take up arms for Sora, though I don't have any association with any of the three Sora fanclubs. Because I'm not the best writer on Earth, my papers usually follow a "idea/refutation/conclusion" format, because I can never really come up with any original arguments in the first place. So sue me. =3 So, I'll find reasons why one would dislike Sora, both credit its legitimacy and refute it (in my own opinionated way, of course x3), then come up with a conclusion for that particular bit of madness. I really can't think of more than a few reasons, though, so if any representatives of the SSC could help me out in that sense, I'd really appreciate it. 8D Argumentation papers ftw.

1. Sora is perfect in every way and unrealistically idealistic.
An unrealistic characterization would be a good reason to shy away and dislike a character. No one likes a story where the hero/heroine seems to have no imperfections and no flaws, and all of their challenges overcome with minimum fuss and hassle. Such a characterization would effectively ascend the character to such a height that it would be extremely difficult to identify with him. I can also see where the members of the SSC could associate this view with Sora: he's a nice, energetic guy with a lot of confidence and not some small pride in his own abilities. But in truth, Sora was not, is not, and probably never will be a complete characterization disaster. Not even close. Physically and mentally, he's had and has flaws, if not fatal, then at least marring.

In the beginning of the first game, Sora fights Leon. Right? I think it's a pretty memorable moment. Now, if Sora were a perfect, unrealistically strong and smart character, he would've quickly kicked Leon (gently) to the curb, before happily introducing himself and going out with Leon for some tea, because a perfect person would be able to defend himself, identify allies, and negotiate truces with others... perfectly. But, if you'll recall, that isn't what happened. Sora is suspicious of Leon, horribly suspicious. When Leon tells him to hand over his keyblade, Sora refuses rather bluntly, and in the ensuing fight, do you remember what happens? No matter if you won or lost (I personally lost the first time I played through the game, lawl), Sora drops from exhaustion. Boom. Down, flat out. He wasted precious time and energy fighting who would become one of his most loyal allies. He did not have the presence of mind to question the Leon's motives, and he automatically switched to "OMGWTFSTOPATTACKINGME" mode when he was in danger, rather than calmly assessing his situation and choosing the best course of action from his options. Sora, in his naivete, his inexperience, in his inability to continue to fight, was not perfect. Even afterwards, he's bullheaded and constantly interferes with the affairs of other worlds, sometimes to disastrous effect (I dare you to tell me that Wonderland turned out perfectly. I dare you.) even though he was expressly told not to. He gets angry. He's petty. He holds grudges. He does not get along with everyone (like Donald), like his enemies (duh) and Riku (... duh). Not perfect. Not even close.

At Hollow Bastion, Riku and Sora meet in front of the Castle Entrance, if you will kindly recall. Now, if Sora really was perfect, what would've happened there? Sora would have made instant amends with Riku, they would have teamed up with Beast to take down Maleficent, saved all of the Princesses, locked the keyhole, and gone back home. Easy as pie. In (relative, this is a game, after all XD) reality, Sora could not make it through Riku's darkness, his Keyblade was nabbed, he lost his two allies and close friends that had been by his side since the beginning and his pride. All he got in return was a toy sword. And if you'll recall, he was none too pleased by that development. In fact, he stayed on his hands and knees, depressed as all hell, even as his best friend walked away with what was rightfully his. No challenge. No retaliation. Just a horrified sort of humiliation and a sinking sense that oh crap we're all screwed now would sum up his situation and responsibilities to the multiverse. Sure, he made do with what he had in the end, and eventually got his keyblade and friends back... but he never, ever saved Riku. Riku had to save himself from the brink of total loss of self, if aided a bit with his memory of his friendship with Sora. Now go back and tell me, which part of that was not realistic?

In Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, Sora follows his heart. And if you don't think he was screwed over multiple times because of his choice, I want to know which copy of COM you were playing. Mine says he screwed himself over many, many times in a row. He willingly fell into a trap, continued even though he knew the consequences, was used as a puppet, lost more and more of himself to the point where he couldn't even remember who he was anymore, all for the sake of a girl that he blindly set his path towards, who was ultimately a lie. If Sora really were perfect, he would never had made such mistakes, abandoned his friends, and would have never, ever forgotten Kairi. But his mistakes and redemption is what made this game so beautiful, so interesting, so bittersweet and tragic. It's my favorite out of the three, really. x3

In KHII, Sora is still trying to find Riku. Does he? Not until the very end, no. And it was more Riku who found everyone and Kairi who found Riku and brought him to Sora, although it was Sora who brought Riku home. Sora is not all powerful and all seeing. Actually, he's far, faaaaar from it. He's more of a puppet who's cut his strings - lost, used, dazed, a little confused, with only what's in his head and his heart (and the advice of well-meaning persons) to guide him. Again, he's pissy, suspicious, a little unintelligent, rash, easily attacked by despair. He's defeated (again), and has to be saved by one of his worst enemies. At the very end, he couldn't bring Riku back home without the impetus of Kairi's letter. While he has a buoyant personality and a talent for making friends, he's only human, and he makes mistakes, mistakes that he pays for in full. He's a well rounded character, full of likes and dislikes, quirks and personality, strengths and weaknesses. He's dynamic - as he grows and learns, his actions and motivations change as he faces his challenges and defeats them. Not many of us could claim that. And we're real.






.... And honestly, I can't think of any more reasons. 8D Do any of you think he's too weak as a person or as a character? Or something? Iunno, someone throw me a reason. Plx. This is fun. 8D

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Kingdom Hearts PSA: [link]

Best to take it to the forums?

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_{By the time you realise my signature has nothing to say, it's too late for you to stop reading it.}

I have always thought of Sora as a hero. Ever since the game starts he is fighting evil and helping others. [corny I know xD]

Hero..

As the founder and administrator of the Sora Slaughterers' Club, I think I should probably be adding a little "diversity" to the discussion here by tossing my opinion in the hat. If it's all Sora praise it's not really a debate, now is it? Heh heh heh.

Obviously, I'm not exactly one to agree with the above-stated points -- though I'll have you know that I read each and every one of them, and find them very honest, relevant, and to the point. Way to go, Sora fans. I congratulate you on your ability to support your cause.

First off, I'll have you all know that I'm a very, very biased person. I've always had a thing for villains, ever since my first-ever RPG. This, though not the most relevant of reasons since it's a personal and ingrained opinion, formed the basis of my dislike for Sora. I'm sure some of you out there can relate to my point; what's the purpose of a villain if you can't either hate them or love them to pieces? I usually end up doing the latter.

Now, understanding where my loathing began, we can continue. I don't hate Sora for the sole reason that he's the hero of the game, but moreso for his personality and attitude towards his enemies. I will admit that he is not a perfect person, and very much has the potential for flaws and failure -- something I don't hate about him at all. The part I really and truly dislike is the way he treats the Organization. Sure, they're the bad guys, and they're his enemies. But I believe that until you really know a person's motives, you shouldn't outright hate them.

Take poor Demyx, for example. He was presumably one of Roxas's friends back when they were in the Organization together, and simply wanted to bring him back. So he was sent out to face Sora, upon which the boy taunted and insulted the Nobody before even understanding that he meant no harm. Then, later, he went right on and killed him, not ever feeling sorry. This pattern continued with every member of the Organization he fought. He showed no respect toward them as his enemies, something a proper hero ought to do (but that isn't often seen). He's constantly underestimating his enemies, commonly seen charging into battle against a fight that, under normal circumstances, would be nigh but impossible for him to win. I don't know about you, but to me he's making a lot of assumptions and not thinking before acting (a very teenagerly thing to do, yes, and Sora IS a teenager, but that doesn't make it any less despicable.).

The other side of the story would of course be from the Organization's point of view. What did they, as the "bad guys", want? Their hearts. All they wanted was their hearts back. And personally, who wouldn't? If I lost my heart, I'd sure as hell go to lengths to get it back... and I'm convinced that if Sora had permanently lost his, he would have done the same thing. Living without emotions would suck, admit it. I don't find the Organization to be terribly "evil" at all; they're simply fighting for what they think is right, just like Sora is. Their methods may be unorthodox and cruel, but their and Sora's goals are, in essence, the same: to regain what was lost. How can one consider them to be purely evil, in that case, without considering Sora evil as well? They're people, too -- or at least, they used to be.

And yes -- it's true that Sora was thrown into this entire ordeal without knowing what hit him, and certainly not by his own choice. But honestly. A teenaged boy, no matter how innately talented, would never be able to learn to fight like Sora does in the time he does it, magical weapons and hidden powers aside. I understand that the reason he's allowed to wipe the floor with the majority of baddies he comes in contact with is because it's a game, and if he couldn't then there'd be no point to playing. Still, he IS overpowered beyond what a kid of his age should be. It comes with all RPGs, yeah yeah. But it's the honest truth, people.

Sure, I'll admit it. My arguments don't nearly have as much basis to them as a lot of the Sora-supporters' do. But hey, it's the way I am; when you like the baddies, your mind thinks of things differently. Sora seems to be a quite well-rounded, human character in general -- but when you like the villains from the very beginning, everything he does against them seems like a slap to the face. It might not make sense to everyone out there, of course. For those of you who understand what I mean, however... well. I happen to have a club JUST for you.

I would like to thank ~xsyntheticsmile for starting this topic. Without it, there'd still be flamers swarming the SSC's page, and that's the last thing I want. This thread is proof that we can get along while still having different opinions, and that's something I'm proud to be involved in. Even if it's just a game we're debating.

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Because Evil is better, dammit.

Hero. But he did rape that one bitch right?

Excuse me? Please keep crude language at a minimum, unless absolutely necessary. Also, when did Sora ever rape anyone?

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"you can't capture life on film."

I think his name was Riku

There was no rape involved in the game whatsoever. Maybe in the fandumb world, but not canon.