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February 19, 2013
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Sony and backwards capability

:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
[link]

Sony Corp. 6758.TO -1.87% is planning to offer technology to stream games to its next videogame console, people familiar with the company's plans say, alongside other enhancements to bolster its position in the market.

The new technology, to be unveiled Wednesday along with the new console, will allow users to play games delivered over the Internet, these people said. The streaming service, they added, is designed to use current PlayStation 3 titles on the new console; the new device is also expected to play new games stored on optical discs.

Sony's plans come after it acquired Gaikai Inc. last year for $380 million. Though many companies now offer simple games over the Internet, Gaikai was one of several companies that offered online access to visually intense games, which ordinarily require specialized circuitry found on high-end personal computers and gaming consoles.

The streaming technology is one of the new features and enhancements expected to be offered with the new console, which Sony plans to unveil at an event in New York. Sony's new PlayStation, for example, may control the action with higher fidelity cameras for its "Move" motion-sensing technology and touch-sensing pads on new controllers, according to people who have seen and been briefed on the devices.

...

Still, Sony is pushing ahead and has been investing heavily to prepare Gaikai's service, people familiar with the matter say. Microsoft also has experimented with its own version of cloud gaming, people at the company have said, but has in the past questioned the costs associated with building a service large enough to reach all its customers.


What This Means:

Due to how horribly fucked up the PS3 and CELL processor is, standard backwards compatability on the PS4 is difficult at best. Unfortunately, this compromise isn't a whole lot better. Basically, what happens is Sony streams the game to you (like Netflix), and you send controller input back. This has the following consequences:

-Forced repurchasing of your PS3 games.
-Internet required for backwards compatability.
-Broadband issues. See, one doesn't really "stream" a game; You play it on a remote server. This requires your internet connection to have to push a good deal of data upstream to the remote server where it is processed and sent back to you in a rendered stream of video. This'll eat up a ton of broadband. And God help you if you're Canadian . . .
-Severe input lag. Thisis going to be a nightmare for games requiring twitch-reflexes or precision.

And those aren't the only problems that will be caused by this compromise. What's especially distressing is that this wasn't reported by a gaming magazine, but the Wall Street Journal, meaning that it was likely leaked by Sony to influence investor perception, and has a 99% chance of being true.

Thoughts?
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Devious Comments

:iconz3ldamahboi:
Z3ldaMahBoi Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Sony = Dead
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:iconvalentineuk:
ValentineUK Featured By Owner Mar 5, 2013
I was originally thinking of starting to put money away so I could buy this console on launch, but after everything i've read about it since it's unveiling i'm not so sure.
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:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
Anybody catch Deep Down at the conference? Looks pretty damned good.
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:icon0rg:
0rg Featured By Owner Mar 13, 2013
it was interesting, if fairly generic

the last bit of the trailer confused me, though
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:iconrequiemthefallen:
Requiemthefallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional General Artist
Hey, I've got this brilliant idea. You either don't get a PS3 but instead get a PS4, and as a result, when you get the streamed games, they're new not rebought. Or, you get the PS3, you play the PS3 games on the PS3, and you play the PS4 games on the PS4. I know this is a new concept but I have this sneaking suspicion it will catch on.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
How does PS4 not having backwards capability mean you have to repurchase games?
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:iconrequiemthefallen:
Requiemthefallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional General Artist
Because this is Sony and I doubt they'll let Western gamers just confirm their games for streaming to their console. Even if they don't, you'll probably lose all save files and God help you if you still are hoping for a decent MP experience on a streamed game.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
But how does that require you to REpurchase games? Just play them on your Ps3.....
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:iconruffpuff:
RuffPuff Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I think a lot of people are planning on trading their PS3 towards the PS4.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013  Professional Artist
Then clearly they're a bit too eager to join in. The rewards for being a first adopter rarely are that worthwhile.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional Artist
Agreed, but have you noticed most people? They don't seem to understand this concept of "you could just play it on the machine you already have".
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I sincerely hope they don't go with streaming...That would SUCK. I wouldn't buy a PS4, and might as well start paying out of my ass JUST TO PLAY ONLINE with XBAWX instead. Seriously, the only Sony console I want right now is the Vita, and that's only because of Persona 4: The Golden, Gravity Rush, UMvC3, Street Fighter X Tekken (for the extra characters), and BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend. Then, there will be Disgaea 3: Absence of Detention, Dragon's Crown, and other games I want that are on the Vita. I would want those fighting games listed mainly because of the additional content included.
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:iconrequiemthefallen:
Requiemthefallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional General Artist
...or you could just get a PS3, which has games ranging anywhere from 3 bucks to 30 for games that had average scores of 7.5-10 out of 10, and not have to pay for online, get Vita remote play, and have MP. The only thing you'll lose is that not everyone will have a mic.

I know it's a crazy idea... but it could work.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I already have a PS3.
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:iconrequiemthefallen:
Requiemthefallen Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013  Professional General Artist
So you're saying your problem is non-existent?
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Well, if PS4 is coming out, it better have backwards compatibility. A lot of customers are going to be PISSED at Sony if it doesn't.
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:iconrequiemthefallen:
Requiemthefallen Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
But there's no reason for them to be pissed, because they'll have PS3 on the cheap, or they'll already have one if they care that much. It's a non-existent problem. Hell, I managed to get a PS2 not too long ago and those things are out of production. It was only fifty bucks, less than a launch day PS3 game, and the PS2 games are even cheaper. The same will be for the PS3.
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:iconkiwi-punch:
Kiwi-Punch Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Okay, but who's going to be on the PS3's network? Nobody, that's who. Every one else will have moved onto the next generation.
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:iconrequiemthefallen:
Requiemthefallen Featured By Owner Feb 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
...You realize people were still playing SOCOM's entries on the PS2, until a few months ago when the servers got turned off.

I think you're underestimating the love some people have for games. There are still people who play Bioshock 2, Dead Space 2, and Killzone 2 on the PSN even though there's no new content coming out for those games' MP.
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(1 Reply)
:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013  Professional Artist
Wait, no, that doesn't count as answer. What you're saying is -- it's a problem, because it is. Not because there's actually a reason for it, but just because.

Anyone who really wants to play PS3 games has a number of options. They can do the streaming thing. They can wait for the PS3 to go cheap. Or they can get a PS3 now. Considering that unless you've got literally no space in your house, you can have two consoles sitting next to one another, you're making an issue out of nothing.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional Artist
But then you don't need backwards compatibility. You have the original product that works just fine
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:icontrampire:
Trampire Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013
Good for them!! Good luck Sony?
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:iconcenaris:
Cenaris Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Geez, so much negativity. Save it for the press conference, mkay?

Though I do wonder what they'll make of the rumoured controller. I hope they keep the rubber start/select button. Those are to the PS controller what oxygen is to the lung.

We all know it's probably not going to be backwards compatible. That's a shame. I don't really want more than a couple of consoles under my TV at any one time. What if I want to get a 720 as well? Running out of space isn't cool.

I'm intrigued about the rumoured "Live OS" system though.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional Artist
The press conference already happened. They've already stated it isn't likely to happen.
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:iconmarvelouschester:
MarvelousChester Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013
Oh how people and their outcries for backwards compatibility, I guess I will just go play my N64 games on my Gamecube.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional Artist
...wait, the GC plays N64 games? Really? I didn't even know.
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:iconrainbowkitty777:
rainbowkitty777 Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
It's sarcasm. :P
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013  Professional Artist
I figured, but still, worth asking.
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:iconrainbowkitty777:
rainbowkitty777 Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
True. :shrug:
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:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
Incidentally, the Gamecube was a commercial flop :shrug:
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:icondraw-over:
Draw-Over Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This just won't work for the reasons you've suggested above...input lag in particular I mean in all honesty who wants to stream games? It's bad enough streaming live video which is constantly getting drop outs in the connection and freezing issues...its a bold move...really though this is just a move towards the 'you don't actually own the games you only own the license to the game' they have to push for this after for some reason I don't think Sony will implement the no used games idea into the PS4...it will effectively kill the console.
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:iconwhiskyomega:
WhiskyOmega Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013  Professional General Artist
My thoughts on the up coming PS4?

...I'm not buying it. Period.

I just replaced my 3 year old PS3 with a newer one and I'm not going to go out to spend ANOTHER $300 plus dollars for another system I'm going to have to spend even MORE money on just to run.
It's all just one big money-trap to force me to spend my hard earned cash to operate and I'm not falling for it.
I'm done.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional Artist
...but why get a newer one unless your old PS3 wasn't performing properly?
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:iconwhiskyomega:
WhiskyOmega Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional General Artist
That's exactly the reason I bought a new one, because my 3-year old system began to cause the games to skip and lag.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional Artist
Okay. Although, I'd imagine the PS4 being around the corner wasn't that much a surprise. Plus a PS3 emulator is in the works, it can already run homebrew PS3 games, and they're working on getting regular ones running on it.
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:iconwhiskyomega:
WhiskyOmega Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional General Artist
Nah. I knew that a new console was only a matter of time, so news about the PS4 coming soon isn't s shock. I just can't keep spending money to keep up on the newest consoles anymore, it's just turning out to be too expensive and especially after I just spent the money to replace my old PS3.
Maybe sometime down the line I'll upgrade again, but not any time soon.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013  Professional Artist
My advice -- forgo the next one and if you do plan on spending the money, just upgrade to a gaming PC. It'll pay of longer in the end, and games are usually cheaper to come by that way.

Either way, the PS3 is still going to get support for a few more years, so not too many worries.
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:iconwhiskyomega:
WhiskyOmega Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013  Professional General Artist
I was actually already thinking that because PCs are already so useful for multipurposes that it'd only make sense to turn it into my main gaming platform as well. :nod:

And yea, the PS3 will still be okay for a bit so I'm not worried about it.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013  Professional Artist
Aye, GPUs can help out in more than just upping graphics for games. Glad to hear you've got a plan.
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(1 Reply)
:icondj0hybrid:
DJ0Hybrid Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I'm guessing then that Sony is dropping their PS3 CPU design then? Honestly, besides streaming through a network with a PS3 on the network, I can't see how this can go well.
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:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
Them dropping the CELL is brilliant. It was a fucking mess that never should have been put inside a console, ever.
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:icondj0hybrid:
DJ0Hybrid Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
It also leaves a sour note if you were an investor. Creating and manufacturing the CELL processor (exclusively might I add) was not cheap and dropping the technology isn't like dropping the support of memory cards but almost similar to if they had dropped the entire PSP line. Yes, on the idea of studios knowing what to do with the system better, it is pretty smart to do as there are dozens of books followed by plenty of forums and individuals who can work with a parallel processor like it is easier than breathing. But to drop billions of dollars in a technology and to drop it completely is hard to justify when your company doesn't even make money on them directly and didn't exactly had an ideal financial situation as your competitor. All I have to say is that the PS4 is going to have to have a short shelf life and Sony is going to have to make money off of it if they want to stay good with their investors.
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:iconzoltor:
Zoltor Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013
Lol like I've been saying since the vita, clearly Sony hasn't learned anything from last gen, and this is just more proof that they haven't learned a damn thing. Not like it matters much anyway, because Nintendo is in line to make the greatest business move in history, the first step was releasing their system way before Sony, all they need to do now is drop the price of the wii U to 250 when the PS3 lauches, and Sony is done.

All the mainstream crap, and drone fodder is going multiplatform anyway, so there really is no reason to even want a PS4, not to mention the wii U is supposedly like the easiest system ever made to develop for(lol except for the 2600, but those were simple times to beginwith), nevermind the fact It's based around actual gaming, where Sony systems these days revolve around everything but gaming.

Seriously, It's not hard at all to make a system BC, you just need to design the system from the beginning, with BC in mind. With Sony, BC is barely a after thought, they are too bussy worrying about Blu-ray playback, so their non VG related blu-ray sales go up(as they own most of the market shares for the tech), and a bunch of other crap that noone who is looking for a gaming console, cares about.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
Except Sony makes good systems and games and Nintendo has sucked since they released the Wii. So yeah...

I think you are confusing Sony with Microsoft. Microsoft has far more non-gaming features that you have to PAY for. Sony has additional things (lol, you think this is a negative) but the majority of them are free. Sony has more exclusives as well. It's clear Sony is more focused on games than Microsoft.

Sure.
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:iconzoltor:
Zoltor Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
No, the wii was a great system, where Sony hasn't been good since the PS2(even then, there was a problem with half of the PS2 models). Nintendo's 1rst party games are meh though, but so is Sony's

I wouldn't call a dime a dozen FPS or action games, good, remaking the same exact game, and slapping a new number on it, doesn't=making good games. Also they recently destroyed some of their franchises, so yea, they're no better then Nintendo as far as that goes.

Infact Nintendo is slightly better on the game front, as they have a hell of a lot more franchises, some of which haven't been tarnished yet(Fire Emblem/F-Zero says hi for example, not to mention they have been releasing completely original titles here, and there)

MS doesn't make gaming consoles though, they make repackaged computers, which they never even tried hiding that fact(hell It's a computer software/networking company, what do you expect).

On the subject though, by all means, WTF does blu-ray playback, and soc networking have to do with gaming, if Sony doesn't add a ton of crap that has nothing to do with gaming?

Yes it is a "HUGE" fucking negative, when you drop game features, in favor of non gaming related features, and then use it as a excuse to hike up the price.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
You lost credibility when you called the Wii a great system. A great system that has a total of 4 good games is not a great system. The grand majority of the Wii's games were complete shit.
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:iconzoltor:
Zoltor Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
It has a hell of a lot more then 4 good games(including actual Greats), you see, the good thing about Nintendo, they actually make gaming consoles, that actually suppoert the gamer. I suggest you take your wii(lol if you even have one, saying there's only 4 good games, implies you don't), go check out the "Nintendo channel"(It's the greatest utility ever created), there you have access to every game coming out within a year, as well as the games that have come out already.

If Sony was gonna steal anything, why not this feature of all thing, it would help both the gamer, and publishers, but I guess that's asking too much from Sony, besides It's a game related feature, so that ofcourse takes a back seat.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013  Professional Artist
...yeah, there's more than four. Let me think.

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Red Steel 2
Death Jr 2
Max and the Magic Marker
...oh wait, I actually can't think of anything else. I guess if you're a Nintendo fanboy then there are a few more, but even then, you've got less good games for it than the Vita's entire library.
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:iconzoltor:
Zoltor Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013
Oh really, I didn't realize Shiren the Wanderer, Medal of Honor Heroes 2, Soul Calibur Legends, Blastermaster overdrive, Castlevania, Monster Hunter Tri(what was the name of the new Capcom title again), a new Gradius game, ect were Nintendo developed games.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 22, 2013  Professional Artist
Soul Calibur Legends is not a highly regarded game in the least.

Medal of Honor was running on WWII fumes and wasn't really worth the effort.

Monster Hunter Tri is a niche market. Specifically, the niche that likes Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, and grinding all combined into one very long, masochistic, monster slaying experience. It's not the worst niche, but it is in fact a niche.

...I never even heard about the new Gradius game and I know about bloody Deadly Creatures and Death Jr.

And Shiren/Blaster... I have not even heard of these either. Seriously. I remember one time scanning across all of Amazon for unique Wii games and never hearing about any of these ones you claim exist.
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