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January 15, 2013
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Bayonetta and Feminists...

:iconayior:
Ayior Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Professional Filmographer
I just can't understand why so many feminists complain about Bayonetta being a pure sex object and stuff. Sure she has her moves, but those are simply so over exaggerated that I take them as part of the humor. And seriously, she is tough isn't she?
...I am almost straw feminist and I don't get crazy over this.

What do you think about that?
Is it justified to sue her or not?
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Devious Comments

:iconxopachi:
XoPachi Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2013
Not this topic again...
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Feminists come in many different varieties. It seems to me, half of the feminists who know about Bayonetta support it as a "female empowerment" type of game while others are disgusted at how sexualized it is. It's best not to generalize that most feminists hate Bayonetta.

To be fair, a lot of feminists and women alike find it offensive that even though the game is a satire of hyper-sexualize females in video games, the material is still offensive and sexist/portrays women as objects. To some feminists, sexism is a very serious matter and jokes are never taken lightly. Jokes are seen as encouraging the stereotype and encouraging sexist behavior (which is true; an example is, it desensitize us from realizing and recognizing the actual problem with sexism) and I don't blame them at all for disliking Bayonetta.

On a side note, Bayonetta is my favorite slice'n'dice/beat-them-up action game and I find it to be much more enjoyable than (not recent) DmC games and God of War. My only gripe to people complaining about the game is when others have not actually played it and claim it's terrible because it's "soft-core porn".

...Because it's not soft-core porn.
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:iconhydris:
hydris Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013
How does the game Bayonetta portray women as objects?
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Let me reiterate -- I am saying this in the defense of feminists because SO many people on this topic is about to form a hate mob against feminists without even knowing true feminism.

Those aren't my sentiments. I love Bayonetta, and I view it as a satire on how women are often depicted in video games. I personally have no problems with the game. :D
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:iconhydris:
hydris Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013
I see disapproval of some notions and thoughts otherwise, but I don't see a hate mob.

Only thought you may elaborate the first sentence of your second paragraph.
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I didn't literally mean a hate mob. Yes, you're right. They are disapprovals and people generalizing that feminists are "men-haters" which isn't true. I'd have to suspect half of the disapprovals are from people with inefficient knowledge about feminism. You know what I mean.

I can't really elaborate on something that I don't 100% agree with, can I? I don't think she was an object at all, but I sure as hell heard it elsewhere from friends and online. I guess if you'd like to know more, you can search online? :)
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:iconblackrabbit98:
Blackrabbit98 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
the game overthinker (bob chipman) did a interesting video on her [link]
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:iconayior:
Ayior Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Professional Filmographer
Quite interesting.
sexually intimidating nails it! :D
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:iconblackrabbit98:
Blackrabbit98 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
ya, hes material is great
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:iconsallysfunnykiss:
SallysFunnyKiss Featured By Owner Feb 5, 2013  Student Digital Artist
It's supposed to be funny. Why aren't feminists complaining over how Laura Croft was just designed to be a pair of boobs and nothing else?
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:iconcodepurpleyedrawings:
CodePurpleyedrawings Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Actually, Lara Croft has already been complained about a lot, and she was never even supposed to have such big breasts in the first place. (Not to mention she' more than breasts) The concept art for the first games portrayed her a bit better, with normalish sized breasts. Then she fell victim to marketing and heterosexual men, you know how it is. Samus Aran too.

But you're right, if they were trying to completely objectify Bayonetta she would behave different. She'd be more scantily clad, younger, maybe.
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:iconinnocentfate:
Innocentfate Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:damphyr: :bulletpink: I don't know, it's just them :shrug: Bayonetta is such a beautiful lady. But as though her moves are a bit over-exaggerating, it does not bother me particularly. Maybe because the feminists are jealous what they don't have compared to her :stare:
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:iconaimforhorror:
AIMforHorror Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'm a girl, and I honestly don't find anything wrong with it. It seems ridiculous to sue, and honestly, whoever is getting upset about it should realize all they have to do, if they don't like it, is just not play it.

To be honest, I like Bayonetta so much, I preordered Anarchy Reigns just so I could play as her.
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:iconreluctantzombie:
ReluctantZombie Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I never really understood that either. Mostly because Bayonetta is so hyper-sexualized, that whenever she tries to do something "sexy," it just comes off as hilarious.

I don't really give a shit though. The game is fun to play, who the fuck cares?
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:iconreignxcrimson:
ReignXCrimson Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013
Eh they simply believe men are terrible. They still believe men hold all the power when clearly we don't and to add insult to injury we make strong female lead characters just so they can be called smut
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Not a feminist per se but, but men do hold a lot of advantages over women even in today's world and *gasp* feminists do focus on other countries in which women STILL have ZERO rights. And it's rude to generalize that feminists solely believe men are terrible. Some do reach that extreme level crossing over to sexism, but many also just wants equal rights and only believe men who suppress women are terrible.
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:iconreignxcrimson:
ReignXCrimson Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013
Your right please forgive my previous comment but my main focus were the extremist as you mentioned. Unfortunately these were the only feminist I've come across it's nice to know that not all femenist generalize men and yes men do hold powerful positions but thats beside the point those men are people who got power or earned it there are also women in high places that treat men as the scum of the earth not only that Im a victim of women who've tread on me
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
It's all good. I know that many men have bad experiences with feminists, and if I'd have to theorize, it's because those women just hate men. Those aren't true feminists. Real feminists fight for equal treatment of both sexes. The ones that hate men are hypocritical.

I'm sorry about your past experiences. :( But just know they're not all too terrible. :D I personally know some that are inspirational that have done a lot for her community in terms of trying to spread the word, prevent sexual harassment in public, etc.
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:iconreignxcrimson:
ReignXCrimson Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013
And again I apologize and believe i did not mean to offend and if there's one thing i can't stand it's sexual harassment.
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Hey, no worries and no need to apologize. ♥
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:iconreignxcrimson:
ReignXCrimson Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013
Love your work would appreciate some tips and criticism
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
sorry, personally know ONE*
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
"I just can't understand why so many feminists complain" -- theyre feminists, its what they do
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Great way to generalize. -_- Though I see where you're coming from, not all feminists complain for fun. Active ones actually go out of their way to make things more equal for both sexes.
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I dont know what they complain for, most of the time they are treated like princess'.
9 times out of 10 a women will get better treatment than a man.
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
You've never heard of slut-shaming, seen the treatment of women in other countries besides the U.S., sexual harassment in public/workplace -- and the fact that harassment towards women are deemed more normal than men? (example: Men to whistle, make sexual comments, make sexist comments) How women until very recently receive less income than men in the U.S or are less likely to obtain higher level jobs pertaining to authority and leadership... ie. Federal Government jobs, Corporate leadership.

It goes both way, but you can't just pull a random statistic out of thin air and say that 9 out of 10 women get better treatment when we both know this is not generally true. Real feminists aren't close-minded to fight for women's rights just in the states, UK, or Australia (or any country that has fair treatment towards both sexes). Feminists also fight for rights for countries in which women are still suppressed sometimes due to religion, cultures, and authoritarian countries that enforce sexist ideals.

Of course your location does effect the general mistreatment of women in society, but it's generally agreed upon that women, though making progress in equality, are NOT treated better than men.
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I'll open a door for a woman, i'll give up my seat etc etc, I wouldnt slight a woman in any way because she was a woman.

But if people in other countries treat women any differently theres nothing i can do about it.

Theres nothing wrong with whistling at women, all you are doing is telling a women that she looks good, if theres a issue there its with women.

I'll tell you something about men, men need elbow room.
"9 out of 10 women get better treatment when we both know this is not generally true." -- i'm talking about general interactions and i'm speaking from experience, men tend to be nice to women.

Its not something i pay much attention to but whenever i hear feminists speak they come across as men haters, lots of women who arent feminists manage just fine.
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
You might see there's nothing wrong with whistling at women, but I know MANY women who DOES NOT like it, myself included. It's degrading and disrespectful and my male friends have expressed that it's degrading. We're not your pets, and if you think we enjoy other people hollering at us as if it's a compliment -- it's generally an off-handed way to say you'd want to have sex with us disguised as a compliment. And if you're going to blame that on ME for not liking men who do this in a creepy manner through whistling, then you're one of those people who victimizes himself just because a woman didn't requite your flirtatious advances.

If you think it's our problem for your actions then you seriously need to re-evaluate yourself.

You've proven yourself to be ignorant about feminism. Just because women "who aren't feminists manage just fine" doesn't mean everything should stay the way it is. Especially since you've just acknowledged that the world doesn't revolve around your country and I quote...

"But if people in other countries treat women any differently theres nothing i can do about it."

...And you still have the audacity to put down feminists as a whole after admitting that women are not treated as fairly in other countries. Some of the feminists you see on the internet may be annoying to you, but there are many outside of the net who are fighting for rights for every women in the world, and your disposition against feminism because women "seem okay" without it is a blind eye turned. What a shame.

I'm not even a true feminist in any way, but at least I have the open-mind to recognize the shortcomings of society when it comes to the reality of sexism.
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
"I know MANY women who DOES NOT like it, myself included. It's degrading and disrespectful and my male friends have expressed that it's degrading." -- no offence but its you who have the problem IMO and your male friends are only telling you what they think you want to hear.
You shouldnt think a man whistling at a woman is anything serious because its not.

"doesn't mean everything should stay the way it is." -- if it aint broke dont fix it, i think half the problem in the world today is that you have people trying to "fix" things.

" and your disposition against feminism because women etc" -- yep. i dont like feminists because i think they are supremacists.

What have women got to complain about, everything is already in their favour.
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:iconsynchronetta:
synchronetta Featured By Owner Feb 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Yeah, because you have a say on how women should feel about how men treat them -- coming from a man such as yourself, you have all the rights to tell me and other women how we feel when you whistle at us. *sarcasm*

It would be nice if you didn't generalize women and feminists in such a negative manner. It's as if you've had some sort of vendetta against them due to past experiences but I regress. You're just ignorant on this topic and I've accepted that nothing will fix that. I'm done.
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(1 Reply)
:iconayior:
Ayior Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2013  Professional Filmographer
lol yeah thats right XD
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Professional Artist
As a feminist, I resent that.

That said, yeah, some feminists seem to think that's all there is to being a feminist... I don't know what to tell you.
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Tell me it will soon be over.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Professional Artist
Not until sexism dies. Good luck surviving until then.
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I'm fvcked so.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2013  Professional Artist
Best you get started on that bunker then.
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:iconmacker33:
macker33 Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I think i'd be better off with earplugs.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2013  Professional Artist
I'd*

And it's up to you. Fact is, equal representation -is- an issue in the game's industry. A big issue. The fact people are finally talking about it is a good thing.

Also, cheers for the Saboteur avatar. I loved the game -- it's right up there with inFamous as one of my favorite sandbox games.
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(1 Reply)
:iconcodepurpleyedrawings:
CodePurpleyedrawings Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Bayonetta seems very experienced as a witch, she's very feminine and very strong. She's very sexualized but she's a witch, and a succubus I believe. The devil's about temptation, and so are some of his minions, in logic. (Remember, she's basically a demon. That volunteered.)

The sexualization is in her personality, because being a succubus, she's so confident and comfortable in her own body she's shaking her ass at all of us. Bayonetta don't freaking care. She's 40 years old in witch years and beautiful. I've heard that from one dev anyway.
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:iconruamsa144:
ruamsa144 Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013
Wait, she's a succubus? I thought she was a human who sold her soul to Madame Butterfly?
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:iconcodepurpleyedrawings:
CodePurpleyedrawings Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
She's not a mortal human. She's never really been a normal human. She's inherently a witch. Born a witch, and raised as one. She probably sold her soul when she came of age. That's why Cereza knows magic and can see angels while mere mortal Luka can't, all the while being weak and helpless.

Witches have sold their soul to the devil, they are minions of the devil so I guessed they're technically demons. Madame Butterfly has been employed under Bayonetta to help her fight angels. She uses them, she never sold her soul to them. Same with the other demons she uses.
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:icon0rg:
0rg Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
let's just be honest here, modern feminists are retards and there's really no reasoning to be had with them
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:iconruamsa144:
ruamsa144 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
How adorable.
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:icon0rg:
0rg Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
glad you think so
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:iconruamsa144:
ruamsa144 Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013
I think they started complaining about Bayonetta because Feminist Frequency criticized it. Which was a terrible review, she didn't even play the game.

[link]

Bayonetta is a capable, smart, sexy and insanely powerful protagonist who kicks copious amounts of ass in a game where most men are (with the exception of Rodin and a certain other important character) at best merely human and at worst comic relief.

While I wouldnt call it a true Feminist Fantasy (TBH Lollipop Chainsaw had more feminist qualities in it and I'd only consider it a hybrid), I'm impressed that Hideki Kamiya's games manages to contain sexualized women that are also empowered. Bayonetta portrayed alot of emotions and alot more backstory than the typical "Ms.Fanservice". She becomes a loving mother to Ceraza, was scared out of her mind when she couldnt find the girl, caring towards Luka, cried when she held her mother's body during the witch hunts, furious when finds out her father destroyed the clans just to bring back Jubilee, and became distraught believing Jeanne drifted into oblivion right in front of her. Throughout the entire game, she developed from a Sex Object to a human being.
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:iconayior:
Ayior Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013  Professional Filmographer
That's a nice reference founded comment
and like all the others here, where are the people on dA that do think it is? just seems like artists can differ :P
and how do you review without playing the game, thats just stupid.
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:iconruamsa144:
ruamsa144 Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013
Think like what?
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:iconayior:
Ayior Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013  Professional Filmographer
I am still waiting for people who post in this forum which DO think bayonetta is entirely feminist
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:iconruamsa144:
ruamsa144 Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013
That's a slim chance to none. I have found many people who believe Bayonetta is a feminist and the new face of (video game) feminism. Thing is, I had to go through twice as many websites for those opinions. I can even post the links here. People have even made articles about their view.

When you say Bayonetta, you mean the character or the game?
I think Bayonetta IRL would definitely be an admirable proud feminist (just not an active one).
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:iconayior:
Ayior Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Professional Filmographer
I'm usually talking about both, the game and the character as being what resembles the game.
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