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January 7, 2013
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Big Sonic Debate

:icondigitalpear:
DigitalPear Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Filmographer
I've been getting a lot of mail about sonic and how it has grown/degenerated. I want to know what you think. As long as it's... well, long, I'll respond back with a long reply, and we'll debate about the storyline, how the cutscenes effect the gameplay mood, and overall the quality of the games.
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Devious Comments

:iconxopachi:
XoPachi Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013
I want a sandbox Knuckles game. I love Sonic games and don't cry about every aspect of it like most people, but I'm tired of playing as Sonic. I want to play as someone else. And Knuckles gets NO attention anymore. He deserves a huge open exploration game to himself.
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:icondoodlemancy:
doodlemancy Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013
I just feel like Sonic never needed to move into 3D, and it really, really, really never needed much characterization or story. I enjoy the gameplay of some of the later Sonic games but I liked it better when it was a "shut up and go really fast!" series and what passed for "cutscenes" was a 20-second pause in gameplay where Robotnik (or Knuckles) showed up, ruined your day and left. These were flat characters and trying to tell more complex stories with them... didn't work for me. Especially when they tried to get serious. Sonic 2006 was an unforgivable disaster of storytelling.

Sonic is one of those series that I think should just stick to formula, because the formula was good.
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:icondukedragoon:
DukeDragoon Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Student General Artist
Sums up my thoughts perfectly.
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:iconthelamadude:
TheLamadude Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Student Filmographer
Ditto!
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:iconthelamadude:
TheLamadude Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Student Filmographer
I would not touch anything post 2D era with barge pole, with the exceptions of the Advanced series and Generations.
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:iconkmwright:
kmwright Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013
I'm an off-and-on Sonic fan.

I still love playing Sonic 2, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and Sonic 1 (in that order) from Sonic Jam.
Of the handhelds, I love Sonic Rush Adventure and I thought Sonic Advance 2 is nice.
Of the moderns, I love Sonic Generations (PS3) and actually liked Shadow the Hedgehog game (don't hurt me).

Despite that, I lost interest around the first Sonic Adventure. I normally didn't care for 3D platformers and Sonic Adventure didn't change my mind. In fact, I couldn't stand the Sonic Adventure series anymore mostly because I felt those games are the reasons for the alternate gameplay styles and the trying-to-be-epic storylines. Plus it doesn't help to constantly hear from the fanbase "Make Sonic Adventure 3! That'll save the series!":roll: Give me a break. I know I'm being hypocritical because I like the Shadow the Hedgehog game, but even then, I didn't think that game is appropriate for Sonic. Sonic is getting better but as much as I love Sonic Generations, it's not really great because it was unique in its own right. If Sonic is to be truly great like his classics, Sonic Team is going to have to take it up a notch. As far as storyline is concerned, I didn't think Sonic games had any good writing to begin with. I didn't mind Sonic Generations' because for once, it was a fun main Sonic game through and through.:shrug:
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:iconseltzur-the-hedgehog:
Seltzur-The-Hedgehog Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
ill hop back on this l8r, be i have a lot to say x3
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:iconpriteeboy:
priteeboy Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I have to agree with ~hoggys2much, maybe with just a little less...murderous rage ^^; Sonic before 2006 was gold. Of course you will always have "purists" who will claim that Sonic died the moment he made the transition to 3D. But if that's so I wouldn't blame the medium (after all, Mario transitioned to 3D very successfully) I would blame changes in the games style, atmosphere, story etc - which would have occurred in any dimensions eventually. I say blame them trying to force down a story into it while the competitor - Mario, decided to play it safe and just keep it to little more than "Bowser kidnapped Peach, off to save her ass again!" :dummy: I believe a lot of early Sonic's charm came from the simplicity of the games - like any decent, entertaining platformer all you had to do was run from left to run and beat a few cute-looking enemies and some kickass  bosses and little much else than that :D

Also the level designs too. If there's one thing that I feel is missing from newer Sonic games - its the presence of inspiring natural worlds. They seem to go more "urban" these days and they saturate them with too many city/factory type levels and neglect places like snow mountains, beaches, caves, volcanoes, forests etc. While older games had those too, but only about 2-3 in an island landscape otherwise filled with colourful, natural wonderlands. My only gripe with Sonic Adventure 2 would be just that - more than half the game was in either the city or space colony. A few more nature levels would have been appreciated. But still - fun game, with heaps of content to work on for the perfectionist 8-) Sonic Heroes was the last Sonic game released that I still think is worth bringing out for the occasional "nostalgia-play" today. And the level designs, colours and mood of that game was very true to what originally made Sonic games so inviting and fun. They outta do more games like Heroes if they want a good 3D reputation (of course, don't rehash the team thing, imagine a game like Heroes again just with Sonic as the playable character) - I'd buy it :D
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:iconvanhir:
Vanhir Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Once it went 3D, the Sonic series went horribly wrong. Now it's just flailing around trying to find something it can work on.
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:iconcenaris:
Cenaris Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
The Sonic franchise and some of it's more rabid fanbase can be summed up in one image:
:icongottagofastplz:
Actually I quite like some of it. Sonic 2 is my fave of the classic games. I'm one of the rare individuals who considers it better than Sonic 3. Sonic Generation's gameplay is near perfect except for the fact it still really wasn't designed around momentum properly. It tries but kind of falls short of nailing it like the genesis games did.
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:iconsuperpika237:
superpika237 Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I only ever enjoyed Sanic Avanture 2 Battle, but I don't know what I feel about Colors.

I liked how fast the speed stages in Unleashed were, and I haven't played Generations yet.
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:icontronmanz:
TronmanZ Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
My interest in Sonic has been renewed to an extent. Sonic 4 kinda sucked, but Sonic Colors and Generations made up for it.
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:icontronmanz:
TronmanZ Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
The Sonic fandom is still retarded though.
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:iconhoggys2much:
hoggys2much Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
I used to be a massive Sonic fan but not anymore.

I have been playing Sonic since he first came out in 1991 but I will never buy another Sonic game again.

From 1991 to 2003 his games were amazing but since 2006 his games have been nothing short of complete horse shit.

Ever since Yuji Naka left and SEGA put that total fucktard Iizuka in charge his games have really gone to hell. Just what the fuck were SEGA thinking in putting that total fucktard (who I want to kill) Iizuka in charge? That motherfucking asshole hasn't got a clue about making games. Iizuka needs to go NOW!

This gen has been a total disaster for Sonic. Sonic 2006 was a broken mess that should have never have been released, Unleashed was a disaster of epic qualities and Generations is one of the worst games ever created (a game so bad I traded it in unfinished). The only half decent game this gen was Sonic Colors.

Sonic is now dead in the water.

It is time for either Sonic to be given to someone else (just get him away from those fucktards at Sonic Team) and rebooted or dropped and for SEGA to find either A. A new character or B. Or to bring back Alex Kidd.
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:iconkell0x:
Kell0x Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Student General Artist
Some Sonic games are pretty good but most of them are mediocre to god awfull. I haven't played Sonic generations yet but I heard good stuff about it.
I liked the gameplay in SA2 and the Sonic advance series was the best Sonic games for me the past 10 years.
Sonic heroes is okay, Sonic Rush was boring. I never enjoyed the Sonic rpg which was a shame cause I love me some rpg. Sonic 2006 was full of glitches and don't even get started on Sonic the werehog or that Shadow game.
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:iconlegendarysuperman:
LegendarySuperman Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I've never really been crazy about the Sonic games, although I have enjoyed some of them, and I recently bought a bundle of Sonic games through Steam, mostly so I could try some of the newer games (Sonic 4 and Generations). I'm a Sonic fan because of the Archie comics, which I read from maybe the mid 90s to the early 2000s or later :shrug:
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:icondigitalpear:
DigitalPear Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Filmographer
Ah, yes. Steam. The storylines where thought out in the new games, just executed badly. You see, they have Sonic and Tails sit here explaining everything every cutscene. Of course, you never got to experience the rough gameplay of the dreamcast or the simplicity of the genesis. Modern has gameplay straightened out, but the cutscenes totally ruin it because there's no action or emotion.

The comics are a different matter.
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:iconlegendarysuperman:
LegendarySuperman Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"Of course, you never got to experience the rough gameplay of the dreamcast or the simplicity of the genesis."

Wait, are you saying I never played those games? :lol:
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:icondigitalpear:
DigitalPear Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Filmographer
Well, I'm just assuming. Although it's true though. Dreamcast was way too buggy, and genesis was quite simple... and fun.
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:iconlegendarysuperman:
LegendarySuperman Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Why are you assuming that I never played those old games?
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:icondigitalpear:
DigitalPear Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Filmographer
Idk.
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:iconlegendarysuperman:
LegendarySuperman Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
:roll:
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:iconkylebjart:
kylebjart Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I shall foreword by saying that I really like Sonic. I have played it since I was 6, and add 20 years and that is alot of game-time.

What I used to love about the megadrive/genisis titles was that there was very little story, no dialogue and it sparked the imagination. I got more from wondering why Robotnik was flying around turning animals into robots than I did when he became a pantomime villain in the later titles. The stages were simple, yet beautiful and I used to dream about what might happen if sonic ever decided to turn left and right and look at those waterfalls, mountains or neon caverns.

The newer titles haven't all been bad, SA1 SA2 and the DS RUSH titles were fantastic, and the new Generation title has been the closest to the old sonic I remember than ever. What they have lacked is wonder, either they try and emulate what they have already done, or SEGA add a new gimic (ie now he has a sword, or magic book etc) to drive the game.

Sonic is at his best when it is simple, gameplay focused and if there needs to be a plot it should be subtle. Subtle, as it will encourage all ages players, like Marios audience to delve in. As soon as Sonic or Tails open their mouth - it is a kids game.

I am old now. Compared to most of you Sonic fans here (And there are alot of them) so perhaps my expectations are different. I would love to see a game that sparks the imagination, generates that sense of imagination and wonder with creativity and most importantly fun. (Just look at Rayman Origins, that is EXACTLY what I am talking about.)

Cheers for reading the rant.
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:icondigitalpear:
DigitalPear Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Filmographer
Nice. I've liked Sonic for a loooong time, but I liked it for the story because it sparked emotion into the gameplay. This is why I never went back to buy a genesis. In newer games like 06, the cutscenes might've had the right emotion, but the gameplay was so buggy that you'll forget completly about the cutscene emotions and start noticing gameplay flaws. Of course, story appeals to different people. Some people just like to play, and that's why the genesis was so popular.

The thing I loved about SA and SA2 is that the cutscenes had actions and emotions that helped boost the gameplay enjoyment. The storyline was well balanced, but not perfect. But now with colors and generations, Sonic and Tails just sit there explaining everything over every cutscene. When a good cutscene comes, you probably skipped it or quit the game because the game annoyed you. At least they straightened out the gameplay in this modern era.
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:iconkylebjart:
kylebjart Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This much is true, and where you and I differ is most likely the difference on growing up with a different type of game.

Back in my day games that had any talking or cut scenes at all were very rare so they relied on story telling through the action in the game itself or by having exceptional gameplay.

For me, I find the modern plots exclude certain types of gamers and they are very much focussed on a specific market and for specific people. This is fine and SEGA know what they are doing in this respect. In regards for story, I always wish for bit a of a darker more serious story line where the characters are explored with a bit more motive and less pantomime over acting. But again, it is all personal taste.

Again you are right, don't like the cutscenes? Just skip them.
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:icondigitalpear:
DigitalPear Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Filmographer
Yes, during my time, my first games where Sonic adventure and adventure 2. I loved the darkish, well developed storyline so when I look at a modern game's storyline, I'm disappointed. The modern plots are good, but the cutscenes aren't good at all and there are no plot-twists. I never skip the cutscenes, because... I hope for a better one after I see one. I never get it though...
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