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November 25, 2012
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Things that need to change in RPG games

:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012
1: No more Random battles.
Seriously it's 2012, get with the times.
Battle System in FF 12 was awesome, story kind of sucked, and gambits were awesome. maybe an auto learn gambit system?

2: No more Separate "areas" for battles to take place.
Star Ocean TLH has this and it's annoying seeing the battle swirl / fade every time for a battle

3: If I change my armor or weapon I expect it to reflect in the game.

4: Give me some actual "choices" that affect the story.

5: "new Game plus" should be mandatory for all RPGs

6: Maps that you can't move around.
Star Ocean TLH had this and I didn't realize how much it made me mad that I couldn't move it.

7: The ability to set way-points.
Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword had this and it was Awesome-amzing-genius.
I also wouldn't mind if it was like Fable's golden trail thing.

8: Not being able to get a treasure chest because I have to many.
I really applaud Star Ocean TLH in this regard because it didn't waste items by giving me items i was already maxed out on. This was helpful at the beginning but later on it became annoying.
Maybe have an option to just get whatever is in the treasure chest and ignore the values?

9: "Treasure sense" Every RPG should have this. Thank you Star Ocean TLH from having me obsess over every inch of real estate.

10: Special locked treasure boxes not recorded. So many I forgot about, it'd be nice if the hero made a note of it. I know I would if I was the hero.

11: Confusing and small icons.
Icons should be large (20X20) and tell me exactly what's in them.
*Stares menacingly at Star Ocean TLH*
Sword = Weapons
Shield = Armor
Potion = Items
Drum stick = Food store
Book = Book store
Bed = INN

RPG's feel like barren fields and hallways, I want to see packs of enemies roaming together... more of what FF13 was doing on the Steppe and more options for transportation I'm tired of walking EVERYWHERE.

Do you have any other ideas for RPG's?
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Devious Comments

:iconsareth1337:
Sareth1337 Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Besides the whole lot of samey JRPGs that I'd never stick my head in, I actually don't know any RPG that does those things. One or two at a pinch, but mostly coherent to your wishes.
Maybe you should look on the more western-side of RPGs.
I could list and describe a few examples if you want...
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
nah, i've already got some.
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:iconvaz612:
Vaz612 Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Personally, I thought the battle system in FF12 was an absolute joke. And random battles are completely fine. Quit whining when you encounter too many and be thankful for the extra EXP that'll help you against the next boss.

That being said, while I do enjoy the classic Dragon Warrior/Classic Final Fantasy turn based RPGs, I think some more action RPGs like Skyrim or Kingdoms of Amalur would be nice. (The class system in KoA was also amazing)

And yeah. Star Ocean TLH was a god-awful game.
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:iconferricplushy:
FerricPlushy Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
This seems like a thread about star ocean, which i don't think that many ppl play and I don't know what have your complaints are even about
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:icondiapermansex:
Diapermansex Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2012
too much random encounters that too same gameplay too
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:iconsandrorybak:
SandroRybak Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
I want random battles back in my jrpgs and a roundbased gameplay, but more advanced, with more tactical elements
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012
I kind of don't want random battles, but instead maybe ambush or sneak attacks? Like they hide behind bushes, jump down from above, jump from a trench... etc. It wouldn't be random but it'd add some excitement.

"roundbased gameplay?"
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:iconsandrorybak:
SandroRybak Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
yeah well like the old atb system of FF
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012
I don't think we'll ever see it again.
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:iconsandrorybak:
SandroRybak Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. it will be back after the whole fast battle hype has flaten down and the developpers realize that no one really liked the new way of (j)rpg
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:icondidj:
Didj Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012
Here's my list

- Less dialogue, especially in the beginning. I'm playing a GBA Rom of Summon Knights 2. And it actually took over an hour of "gameplay" (including two very short scripted battle sequences) before I was able to roam free and fight monsters. There's the golden rule of entertainment where if you don't capture your audience within the first 15 minutes, you've lost them. Final Fantasy VII got it right. Barely 2 minutes after starting a new game and not a word of exposition, and you're set into battle exploring a reactor on a mission to blow it up.

- Full control of characters in battles. I know you said that you like the FF12 battle engine, but I hated it. The way that I see it, any game that takes interactivity away from the player has failed in design. And the idea that you can set every character up with combat AI just meant that when I got into a battle while grinding, I could actually put the controller down and go do something else until I've won. Now, I know that this is done to make the battles more realistic as opposed to old-school RPG battles where everyone forms in ranks and takes turns. But look at the battle system of the Grandia series where they take turn-based combat where you do have full control over every character's actions, and it looks like a right proper brawl.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012
yeah, opening sequences should be skippable if you have at least one save past that point.

OOOH i'll have to play this Grandia series. that sounds awesome
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:icondidj:
Didj Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012
The Grandia series is a heavy in the JRPG cliches when it comes to story. But the battle engine is where it shines. fortunately, It's like the Final Fantasy series in that there is no continuing storyline, so you can pick up the series wherever. I'm not really talking about long opening sequences that should be skippable. I'm talking more like games where it has you run around and just talking to characters for a long ass time before it eventually lets you roam free and fight monsters. A big offender in my opinion is Kindgom Hearts 2. A game that expects you to follow along with the convoluted story line including what happened in the GBA card battle game, yet somehow assumes that you've never held a controller before in your life. So, it spends the first 3 hours or so holding your hand as you do boring fetch quests, non-threatening baby combat, and just talk to character before it eventually just lets you play the game.
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:iconakatsukidawn44:
AkatsukiDawn44 Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Freakin more intelligent AI. Seriously, don't use an attack if you already used it and proved it wasn't effective in the first place. You're making the game easy for us.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
for ally or enemy AI?
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:iconakatsukidawn44:
AkatsukiDawn44 Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Both.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 2, 2012
yeah, I hate it when one of my allies use an ice spell and it HEALS them and then continues to use it.

for enemy AI that sounds kind of scary. I APPROVE!
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:iconredfoxbennaton:
Redfoxbennaton Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Oh and I am sick of all the typical nerdy twinky settings. Stop using those.
But what if I want to look at the map? Like what if I want to zoom in on something?
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
"twinky settings" example please?
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:iconredfoxbennaton:
Redfoxbennaton Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Like having effeminate boys as the main characters.
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:icondidj:
Didj Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012
Or having the aristocratic man with the long hair being the obvious villain who's entire motivation boils down to "the world is full of suffering, the only way to end suffering is to destroy the world".
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:iconredfoxbennaton:
Redfoxbennaton Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Sethoroth.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
ah.
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:iconherbaldrink:
HerbalDrink Featured By Owner Dec 1, 2012
-Get away from the "Fantasy" setting.

You don't have to be all stereotypical science-fiction or Ye Olde British Isles. How about something like an Urban Fantasy? Or maybe something set in an African looking area? How about Dieselpunk? How about something set 20 minutes in the future like in Moxyland? How about something more globalized, too? What about ripping off Skies of Arcadia and setting it in some kind of weird Jules Verne like world?


-Quit just carbon-copying Dungeons and Dragons or d20.

Seriously guys, that's getting old. At least you've been making your own systems for awhile where I can't import a party from one game into another and still work. Also, don't go "Because your skill in swords is too low, you can't hit something that is four cm away from your face." If I'm missing something that's right in my face, then I expect it to be because I'm blind - not because I'm that bad with something. Seriously, pick up some weapon you're not familiar with in real life and try swinging it at something htat's two feet away from your face. -_-; IT does not work that way. It didn't make sense in d&D, and it doesn't make any sense now, especially if you're trying to be realistic.


-Don't overcomplicate things just to make it more complex. There comes a part where it just starts to become tedious. If I'm having to slog through four menus just to equip a weapon or have to take out the manual just to find out how to drop things, then it doesn't really start being a game, does it? It just starts to be annoying.


-Actually fucking tell us where we're supposed to go.

It's just fine and dandy if you're telling us to talk to all the people...but if the only person who knows where this location is happens to be that old man huddled in a corner, then that's just inviting us to go to GameFAQs. If you're putting in something like a quest marker? Allow us to shut it off just so those self-proclaimed "Thinkers" can act like they're feeling smart by "Figuring it out yourself". If you want us to figure something out ourselves, then provide us with the necessary information. Don't just expect us to flat out divine where something is supposed to be because the directions you get is incredibly vague.


-RPG players: Sorry, if you want to tell a story, you're gonna have to be linear.

Sorry guys, but if you notice a lot of games that give you the illusion of non-linearity, when you get down to the plot, it's actually pretty darn linear. Reason? Because that's how storytelling works. When you read a book, you don't just go to whatever page you want and start reading. Know why? Because it wouldn't make sense. In fact there is a reason a lot of games don't have the plot progress until you yourself trigger an event flag - because if you just hop into the plot whenever, it'll just not make any bit of sense when you do and they're talking about stuff that happened when you weren't around.
There's a reason they're handing the plot and the challenge right to you instead of just letting you find it out yourselves: Because you'll inevitably just skip it or go "tl;dr, what're they talking about?"


-Give me a reason why I can't just walk to the end if it's right in front of us.

Why am I being forced to take the scenic route? Why do I have to do a bunch of errands for someone before he'll let me in this zone? When I enter some zone and are told "oh hey great, it happens to be here but you have to go through this dungeon before you can accomplish what you can here to do", it starts to get annoying. Is there a reason we can't just waltz right in, apart from "Well, then you'd have a 10 hour game"? Explain why there is no ships going to the continent where I have to go, not just "oh sorry there are no ships there".


-Try and give alternate ways to accomplish a particular goal. And make them as equally rewarding.

So give me a reason for engaging in corporate espionage when I can get more experience by just shooting everything that moves. Give me a reason for taking this path if the only reward is gear that I'll never ever use since I am a warrior. Give me a reason for completing a puzzle if I can get more experience by just blowing it up.


-Cut back on the arbitrary plot barriers.

Why aren't you here waiting for me at the castle? Oh! Because I didn't speak to everyone in the village first. Seriously, stuff like this is just annoying. -_-;
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:iconchitugo:
Chitugo Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
12 .- Actually require gaming skills
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:iconavskyggene:
AvSkyggene Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
The Witcher 2 has all of these things except 7.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012
cool.
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:iconzerostorm91:
zerostorm91 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
This thread might as well have been names " 1o reasons why I dont like star ocean the last hope". That being said I had it on the ps3 and its a great game (at least gameplay wise) your just fussing too much over minor things.

For me j-rpgs just need more direction in the sense that developers should stop trying too mix genres and just stick with one. Final fantasy 13 is a good example of this, they tried to mix real time action with strategic elements and in the end all we got was a broken battle system that did everything for you.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
I don't know, I kind of liked FF13's battle system except for having to do that Paradigm Shift to heal / defend.

I liked Star Ocean's battle system where you would be auto healed, provided the AI wasn't being dumb.

"Leader death = game over" should be banned.
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:iconzerostorm91:
zerostorm91 Featured By Owner Nov 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
12's battle system was the best for me. You constantly had to adjust your tactics and moves in a fight.ff13 is just the same thing over and over( buff your pary,debuff enemies,kill). And yes I agree that anoying party leader death thing needs to be removed even if only for hope.
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:iconswxrdz:
SwxrdZ Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
A new age of character classes

Abstract original worlds unrelated to earth
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:iconshadow2k:
shadow2k Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You're really obsessing over Star Ocean The Last Hope. Which, by the way, sucked on the X360 and sucked slightly less on the PS3. You need to play more JRPGs and draw from your experiences thereof.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
It's the last game I beat, and I have played many an RPG.
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:iconparadigmfallen:
ParadigmFallen Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Professional Artist
...this sounds more like JRPGs than any of the RPGs I play. I think you aught to try something like Kingdoms of Amalur, Elder Scrolls, or Dragon Age. Also, try looking up some indie RPGs.

As to what I'd like to see in RPGs...

I'd like to see more RPGs willing to have action game play, but still integrate the RPG elements into them. Take Mass Effect 3 as an example -- it finally was on its way to getting min-maxable characters. Being able to make an elemental attack focused Quarian, a drone and sniping engineer, and the like finally made it feel like an approachable RPG. I don't also only want to have the option to program my squadmates -- not have it be a necessity.
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:icononlyelisha:
onlyelisha Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Student General Artist
Don't make another final fantasy XIII, that's all I ask.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
I've got some bad news.
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:icononlyelisha:
onlyelisha Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012  Student General Artist
LIGHTNING RETURNS!!!!! oh boy
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:iconsuperpika237:
superpika237 Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
I can't even believe that you would use Skyward Sword as an example!

Also, I like random battles... to an extent. I wish more JRPGs had the "repel" thing for Pokemon, but maybe I guess that'd defeat the whole purpose.

...y'know what, screw it, no random battles. Unless there's a repel-type thing involved. I think it was also in FF VIII, but I haven't played that game.

But all this stuff is, like, things that pretty much MAKE an RPG sometimes.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
So you would argue that "Super Paper Mario"for Wii isn't a RPG?
Threads of Fate or that Star Ocean Til the End of Time or Star Ocean The Last Hope also aren't an RPG?
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:iconsuperpika237:
superpika237 Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
I said "sometimes".
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
fair enough.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
Moral choices that make a difference but aren't between angelic do-gooder and evil-regardless-of-utility.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
How might that work?
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
More than one resolution, for one. Practical choices that don't satisfy everyone, cruel choices that still benefit the kid, that sort of thing. Side with either faction in a war, destroy them both, broker piece, lead a native uprising against both, reveal to both that you started the war in the first place just to see what happens, deliberately extend the war for the benefit of your lucrative profiteering business, broker piece by unleashing a deadly virus that wipes out all live because, hey, the option presented itself and the game didn't make it clear which button destroyed and which button released the virus (at least that's what you'll tell people, if any survived to be told).

You know, that sort of thing. Not too ambition for a cooking sim, I'm sure.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
That'd be an interesting game!
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:iconkmwright:
kmwright Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012
-It would be nice to have a concrete definition of what makes a rpg.
-I wish a good chunk of jrpgs didn't look like tacky-animuish bs 90% of the time.
-WRPGists, if you're going to mooch off Tolkein for the 725th time in a row, can you at least try to be unique about your elves and dwarves.
-Speaking off which, how about some other types of mythology & settings that doesn't revolve around Europe or Japan?
-I love good non-linear narratives and choices and consequences, but I can't stand shallow c&c that only adds up to kiss the puppy/kick the puppy/don't care with no differences in the journey.
-If there's going to be a linear narrative, make it good. There's nothing more boring than sitting through a non-engaging bad story after going through dungeons and random encounters. As much as I love rpgs, they don't have the most exciting gameplay in the world to excuse this.
-Encounters need to be unique and not have us rely on the same tactics.
-Bosses need to stop breaking the rules and going 3 times in a row when things get tough. I find that a lazy way to make them tough.
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:iconlightdemoncodeh:
LightDemonCodeH Featured By Owner Nov 28, 2012
RPG:
Hero has a starting level, gains experience and with each level gains more strength speed, defense, etc.
Can equip different weapons, shields, armor, Accessories.
has multiple forms of healing items readily available to buy at stores.
can "revive" allies (if any) with restorative items.
encounters palette swapped enemies and bosses
all the other rules have been tweaked or ignored.

-"tacky-animuish bs 90% of the time" I know right!? They are always so gung ho, I want reluctant heroes who have to be goaded into fighting.

Hero - A drunk who stumbles in to the wrong place, he fights but only because he can't get drunk until the bad guys are destroyed for whatever reason
Girl - A poor lady living on the street, she's in it for the money for her family. etc. etc.

-yeah, some sci-fi and greek / roman mythology, or even some Maya, Hindu, dinosaurs!

-"but I can't stand shallow c&c" what's C&C?
-Story is like the meat to battle system potatoes, if the meat is no good the potaotes are super boring no matter how dressed up they are.
- yeah, i agree.
-What game did this???
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:iconkmwright:
kmwright Featured By Owner Nov 29, 2012
-c&c means choices and consequences
-Nice analogy there. :nod:
-The games that stick to mind are Final Fantasies and Golden Sun games.
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:iconhappyduckcreator:
HappyDuckCreator Featured By Owner Nov 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
1. Yeah, I agree with this. But at the same time, some games can still be awesome and have these in it, but I generally like games without them.

2. Err, this is a problem...? I mean, yeah, it sucks in PS1 games where it took ten seconds to load (And I don't even mind that), but for everything else, it's not an issue. Hell, who doesn't want a little variety in background every now and then? Look at EarthBound's totally ballin' backgrounds, whoah...

3. Again, no opinion. It'd be cool, but ultimately something that'd go over a lot of people's heads.

4. Really depends on the plot...

5. No it shouldn't. :unimpressed: Some games just aren't made for playing over and over again, especially 60+ JRPG epics...

6. ...Wouldn't that streamline the game? I dunno, I tend to get lost/bored as fuck running over the same overworld again and again, listening to that one stupid tune for the millionth time.

7. I guess that'd be helpful? For people who have taken a long break from the game, at least. Also, those are terrible games and you should be ashamed for commending them on anything (Especially in a JRPG related post, of all things!).

8. Not too big of an issue either. Some games do item management, so what? The only case where it got annoying was Paper Mario, where you could only hold about 8-10 items at a given time, coupled with a seriously annoying interface...

9. But... Part of the fun of any game is discovering things on your own...

10. It ain't the game's job to record pointless chests (or ones that are fairly obviously story related)...

11. I don't even understand this one, to be honest...
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:iconzazill:
Zazill Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
    1. For all RPG's, If a story can't fit into a small world, don't bother making a large one, in fact, don't make the game at all. Read a fantasy book, better yet, buy the license for it if you don't want to bother hiring good writers.

    2. On that note, stop mentioning wars that I didn't take part in as part of the lore.

    3. Get rid of cut scene action sequences where the character whoops the bad guys ass with special mocap animation. I want to be able to stack my own abilities and kick his/her ass by myself, since I wasted 120 hours just to get to the asshole in the first place

    4. Don't give shit level monsters the instant K.O ability, seriously, what the fuck

    5.Stop giving me useless junk I can't fucking use, such as pebbles.

    6. When I go back to a previous location, the monsters could I don't know, at least tried to level up for the odd chance that I may comeback.

    7.Also, RPG games are becoming way too easy and unbalanced, beating a dragon in skyrim at my measly level killed the whole game because right afterwards I walk into a cave and some no name vampire ass-raped me

    8.RPG developers, you underestimate the power of being able to synthesize things. It's been decades already and still I can't assemble a weapon or armor like I can create an entire world in 'Little big planet'

    9.Finally, if the protagonists are preset, I want to at least be able to play as who the fuck ever I want to; yes Japan that goes double for you and your teenage boy fetish
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