er- the whole point of Harry Potter was that 'muggles' made up the whole 'evil' deal about wizards because they saw them on a broom a few times, in their black robes. It says so in 'Quidditch through the ages'. So no, that`s not a plot hole at all, sorry.
Also I hate to break it to you, but wizards don`t exist just in England. And science is taught in schools, which was my point. Well yes, I understand but majority do study about science but I was wondering how wizards survive with zero knowledge of that stuff.
Wait you`re an education student? If you`re a student doesn`t it imply you`re getting an education anyway...
divine--apathiaFeatured By OwnerDec 7, 2012Hobbyist Photographer
- the whole point of Harry Potter was that 'muggles' made up the whole 'evil' deal about wizards because they saw them on a broom a few times, in their black robes. It says so in 'Quidditch through the ages'. So no, that`s not a plot hole at all, sorry.
Qudditch was invented in medieval England. The bible, which had been around for MUCH longer, has the passage 'You shall not suffer a witch to live'.
So yes, plothole.
Also I hate to break it to you, but wizards don`t exist just in England
No, but we've only seen how the English system works.
And science is taught in schools, which was my point. Well yes, I understand but majority do study about science but I was wondering how wizards survive with zero knowledge of that stuff.
...The same way that people who don't have an education in real life survive, which is my point the whole time
Do you really not know what an education student is? I'm studying education.
I think the way it generally works is that magic is considered to be a force utterly removed from or directly opposed to the laws of nature. By working magic, a wizard circumvents the laws of physics, and thus would only need to concern themselves with the laws governing magic.
However, nothing is fixed in speculative fiction. I have encountered settings where the magic is itself a fundamental force of nature, interacting with matter and energy and governed by its own scientific laws. I've also seen wizards for whom magic and science were utterly indistinguishable. And I've seen wizards who, though recognizing magic and science as fairly distinct forces, were nevertheless proficient in both.
Anyway, such speculation is really only necessary if you intend to write some fantasy yourself. Like I said, nothing is fixed in speculative fiction, so when you read about wizards of varying degrees of scientific literacy, understand that there is no objective standard to judge them against. They may simply be ignorant as a product of their culture (for the pseudo-Medieval variety), or such knowledge could be completely superfluous to them.
Oh, I see. I thought this was just idle speculation. When you write about wizards, naturally you could establish how magic works and how it relates to mundane sciences. Consider this, though: chemistry and biology are both just applications of physics, and thus should be just as easy to circumvent. If your wizards are going to be educated in both magic and science (perhaps they are scholars in addition to being wizards?) keep in mind that no scientific education would be complete without and understanding of physics. After all, nothing is fixed, but it at least has to be internally consistent.
The movie The Sorcerer's Apprentice answered that quite nicely, in my opinion. The wizards in that, as you say, have an extensive knowledge of physics and other sciences in order for their magic to work. i.e. In order to set something on fire, they know that they have to vibrate the atoms of a particular structure at a fast enough pace that it undergoes a combustion reaction.
Harry Potter, unfortunately, goes by the explanation of "Magic, damn you!" while beating you over the head with a spellbook.
Hmm...maybe science and math aren't big among wizards. I mean, why worry about those things when magic does so much of that boring stuff! It's those poor Muggles who have to deal, and that's why they are the cool inventors
I'm sure that there are classes somewhere...prolly not in wizarding schools. Maybe they briefly cover it in Muggle Studies?
The have to, i saw in your reply that you mean Harry Potter saga, but if you remember they can choose some lessosns to attend as they wish but other are already decided, also you know that exist only 8 courses that are really few, so they have other to not count that before 11 years old they have to attend normal schools.
In general they have to know it, also because a branch of magic is alchemy.
YTcyberpunkFeatured By OwnerDec 3, 2012Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I thought this thread would be about the little-known Ralph Bakshi movie. Instead, it's another "Harry Potter" thread about a plot-hole.
But to answer your question, yes, I think Harry and pals do have to be ignorant of science, math, and logic. Otherwise, they'd start to question all the plot holes and illogical plot twists that exist in the world they live in. THINK Potter! Without goofy magical rules that defied the laws of physics, you'd have been snuffed in your crib!
See, that's why I don't read fantasy: I always want to know the underlying rules, and fantasy leans away from that, or at least focuses on "how" to the near-avoidance of "why". Science fiction, my native turf, is roughly opposite. I would love to see a fantasy book or series that explored why a certain wand flourish and incantation caused a particular effect. Who or what decided that? If you understood the foundations of magic, could you create or delete whole classes of magical behavior?
I know! I adore fantasy, adore it, but I always always need a reasoning for something! Even if it`s magic, I need to know how or why, for the full impact to hit, and not be constantly bothered by it xD Also a fantasy world with reasoning is easier to believe in, and hope that it might be real xD
I can't say I have the enthusiasm for fantasy, but that is because I always felt the rules were too fuzzy. I look forward to following up on that suggestion to read Diane Duane's series. It sounds promising. My feeling is that if magic existed, language wouldn't unlock it; the force that unlocked it would never leave such a loaded gun lying around, to be fired by human babbling. Instead, it would somehow lie beyond speech, a bit like Zen Buddhism. It would require a meditative state far beyond most folks' capability.
you might like Diane Duane's 'So you want to be a wizard' universe then. her interpretation of wizardry leans much more towards Science fiction than fantasy (which is not suprising as she tends to stay within scie-fi) as universe has clearly defined rules and mechanisms in place for the manipulation of the world. by the second book her system is pretty much sound however the series does get a bit depressing as it continues on.
I checked it out on Amazon, and found I can get the opening three volumes in one set, for a song. Neat! I'll order it before the month is out. Thanks for the suggestion. I look forward to checking it out during the Christmas vacation.