Over-complexity of the site (or: Creeping Featuritis)

~DigitalXeron Nov 22, 2012

All,

I have been recently studying DeviantArt's site structure and wish to bring up the issue of "How many features does the site REALLY need?"

I believe DeviantArt's site staff have been working on implementing more and more features, but may not be fully understanding the ramifications of having a site with too many features or features that require non-trivial time to understand.

As a developer myself, I understand that from that internal standpoint — and even standpoints of other internal non-developmental associated staff, you end up understanding how the changes work as they are developed, and have a hard time believing users when they say "This change is bad and should be reconsidered". It also can also become very tempting to implement any and every web technology to "keep up with the times", but this can damage user loyalty if the users are satisfied with say, how fast the site runs or how simple things are. Restraint is essential in development as new and novel doesn't always improve quality.

The new submission page for instance, should not require a workflow, it should be a single, simple form. among other examples of this "too many features" issue:

- Submission pages should not require javascript to operate, HTTP POST forms can fill this need.
- On lower-end computers (some of my supported users have computers that aren't modern), the DeviantArt site heavily lags due to feature after feature being loaded. Blocking these breaks the site.
- On some browsers, "Loading..." can stall indefinitely, perhaps due to server load, server load can be reduced if features are simplified as say a single page rather than using javascript to load another page

There are other examples, but I feel and sincerely urge DeviantArt's staff to consider how rapid their development is and wheather such fast development is needed. I've seen sites older than DeviantArt remain mostly the same (Google is a significant example, their homepage is still mostly the same as when they first started, yet is the largest search engine on the internet, they just added extensions that hang off the side of their core site and it still works completely fine without javascript.)

I am not the only one with these sentiments, I support some premium DeviantArt users who have the same sentiments that feel that the site's increasing features are a roaring train without breaks and has some of them questioning wheather to renew or to simply set up a website of their own as they feel that developing a site would be an easier task than to contend with constant changes (e.g. if the new submission page will soon get a third page)

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Devious Comments

*oginmysoul Nov 23, 2012 Hobbyist Traditional Artist

I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I think "simpler is better" and that slow down is a bad thing and DA, like any good website, should continually improve. I don't think the site needs a total overhaul, but maybe better categorization/user interface setup.

One thing I like to see is a better browsing setup:
1.) I think there are too many "top level" categories, when it should be limited to just Digital Art, Traditional Art, Photography, Artisan Crafts, Literature, and Film & Animation--everything else should be a sub-set.
2.) Genres--like Manga & Anime and Anthro--should not be top-level unless they can also be a sub-category. They could use a tag-like system like that used on most blogs.

I also kind of think the forum, chat, and most of the things at the bottom of the page (polls, etc.) could also be at the top of the homepage because I never look at them. Just my 2 cents.

~kafine Nov 23, 2012 General Artist

I agree with you.

~siantjudas Nov 23, 2012 Digital Artist

Oh look, another change is bad suggestion.

Your argument against hardware is like saying, I don't want to buy a dvd player, so they should still make video cassettes, because I can't be assed to keep up the times either, and because I don't want to keep up with the times, everyone else should be held back too.

And damn, how old of a computer are you talking about? Mine is nowhere close to new, yet it runs the site just fine.

I won't even get into the elitist undertone at the end there. But if they are that serious about what they are doing, they should've already developed an independent web presence for themselves.

`bohobella Nov 23, 2012 Professional Traditional Artist

I've been here some eight years. The site is no where near what it was back then, and it's only gotten better as it grows. How can you as a developer actually tell someone they should STOP growing and developing?

This is an art site of all things!

I've accessed this site from every computer I touch and have never, personally, had lag issues due to "feature after feature being loaded", and that's a wide range of Windows, Macs and cellphones of all ages.

I haven't personally posted with the new submissions page but I'm loving what I read. It's a much needed revamp to tackle real issues like miscats and copyright issues. Too many people whiz through the submissions page, I've always appreciated it and making it bigger and better is great news in my book. Personally, I've been following my team's progress with it and I'm excited to see it fully implemented and enjoyed.

If someone is using deviantART as a personal website, they haven't come to the right place. DeviantART is not here to fill the void of a real online portfolio (although the Portfolio feature is new and looking promising, I've used that for a few clients successfully). DeviantART is first and foremost a social network for artists, I would hope they keep staying up to date with the times if they are to remain the number one social media site for artists in the day of facebook and the like.

!prosaix Nov 22, 2012

"I am not the only one with these sentiments, I support some premium DeviantArt users who have the same sentiments"
What the fuck? All members are equal. Everyone's sentiments matters just the same(or doesn't matter at all), premium members' sentiments aren't something more important or more valid.

" I feel and sincerely urge DeviantArt's staff to consider how rapid their development is and wheather such fast development is needed"

No one likes change

~DigitalXeron Nov 22, 2012

I wasn't intending to create that sort of tone, I was intending to say that as a regular member without access to some of the features that I have indeed seen and worked with the more advanced features that premium members have access to.

While there may not be a social separation, as long as features exist only for premium members there is still an operational separation where regular users are encouraged to pay for premium memberships to get access to those features.

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