UK Election Debate - Healthcare


tabzthefish's avatar
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttaXxj…;

Free health care for me is a fundamental part of society. The government should be there to look after you when you are at your most vulnerable and unable to look after yourself.  

The point was made in the debate tonight that the UK spends less of its GDP on health care than the USA. 

Now the UK has private health care. It is by and large an opt in process. You are, from moment you are born till the day you die, free to avail yourself of the entire NHS system. Or you can go private with the many companies available, you can do this without giving up your right to free health care through the NHS. 

The question I would pose to Americans out there is: Given that you already spend more than the UK on health care, and if you had a blank slate, would you prefer to have a system like the NHS which is free but where you can opt in to private health care if you could afford it?

(This would be in place of any system you have had in the past, pre Obama care). 

As a side note I think I'd like Nigel Farage if his every point wasn't laced in xenophobia: 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m9S1P…
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sBVw_…
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AbCat's avatar
The NHS is seen as the solution to all the UK's problems, when it ought to be a cog in a larger machine of social care. In certain areas, particularly geriatrics and mental health, the NHS is obliged to use full in-patient beds where residential care would be more appropriate and less expensive. This is because social care is supposed to be funded by local councils, whose budgets have been decimated, while the NHS, as a flagship public service, is largely protected.

The main scourge of the NHS over the last 20 years has been the privatisation of ancillary services, such as portering, catering, and cleaning, which has resulted in more expensive contracts, as well as legions of workers without viable wages or pensions. This places further strain on council housing benefits, and benefits for pensioners. In addition the inferior service provided by these private subsidiaries creates a false economy, as nurses and doctors are wasting valuable time organising medical records, cleaning kitchens and wheeling patients from wards to theatres, when the private company fails to provide the necessary staffing to fulfill its role.

The worrying part for me is that not only is the Conservative plan for the NHS not viable, but the Labour plan is not viable either. Neither have any plans to scale back privatisation, nor do they have any concrete plans for more student places for nursing and medical degrees. The NHS currently fills the gaps in its staffing shortages by recruiting doctors and nurses from third world countries, who badly need qualified clinical staff themselves, while haemorrhaging staff from all departments due to poor pay and working conditions.

A National Health Service can only operate successfully if it is properly supported by other public services and not undermined by private brinkmanship. I am highly doubtful that such a support network would ever be achieved in the US.
VISIONOFTHEWORLD's avatar
If you want the NHS to remain, vote for Labour. It is simple. You go and you vote. Everyone you know should go and vote, and you spread the word and make sure they do.
There is no excuse to not vote. The party with the most votes wins. So VOTE.
If Cameron stays, the NHS goes. If you want the NHS to stay, Cameron goes!
Valzeras's avatar
The only left wing party left is the communist party, labor is more of a center right party.
Valzeras's avatar
Socialized healthcare is a tool of slavery and theft, such evil must be abolished and the useful members of society be able to keep their money.Libertarianism and personal responsibility is the better solution, nobody should have to pay for the dumb and useless part of society.
Bumsy's avatar
Celebrities, footballers and the monarchy get paid too much. I say we sheer off some of that stupid money they earn and turn it into smart money by giving it to the NHS.

I mean shit, think how much the antique furniture, bronze statues, jewellery, and paintings squirrled away in the Royal Palace would fetch at the auction house - it could buy new machinery, expansions and fund affordable cancer drugs.
tabzthefish's avatar
As much as i'd like to reduce the wages of celebrities and footballers they aren't paid out of public funds. The Monarchy on the other hand, as much as I like them, they have enough money to sustain themselves without public funds. 
MOxC's avatar
If the NHS goes, I go. A strong health service that is available to anyone is vital for building a successful country 
monotsleigh's avatar
I thought this was going to be a disscussion about the UK Gen. Election and the topic of healthcare, not how our system compares to the US' system.
tabzthefish's avatar
No reason why it cant be both. 
monotsleigh's avatar
Fair enough, it's just I thought the phrasing was a bit weird...hakuna matata!
EdenianPrince's avatar
I quite like the idea of a universal healthcare system :) 
siantjudas's avatar
Tough, tough.

On one hand I don't think that a national heathcare is the answer, on the other, if it wasn't then I would probably be more crippled now than I am. See I broke me leg (shattered more accurately) a few years back, and without insurance it would have bankrupted my family, which is why I sat around for a week with a severely broken bone until an error on the insurance was fixed. Because THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY was worth more than me NEVER WALKING AGAIN. So I know the importance of having insurance but I also know that at some point we owe it to the people to keep them healthy.

There is no right answer for a country, only what fits them best. I thought WE were the only ones fucked in that terms, but it's good to know that the UK is as well. I have no answer, only that there is obviously a better one than we have now.
tabzthefish's avatar
"which is why I sat around for a week with a severely broken bone until an error on the insurance was fixed."  

That sentence there is why I shudder when someone mentions private health care. 
monotsleigh's avatar
I'd be scared if the NHS ever went, my mum has a lifetime exemption on her prescription because she needs them. (Hypothyroidism now) I'd never want to be in the situation were I wasn't able to walk down the road and see my doctor without worrying about how much it'd cost. (Also I worked it out on time, that while the GDP % spent on health care in the UK is half that of the US, that makes the US budget  the same as the UK's whole GDP. (I know that the US has a much larger population than us of course...but I just can't imagine that sort of money!!)
tabzthefish's avatar
Mind boggling amount. I'd share your fears if it went as well.  
siantjudas's avatar
Tell me about it. The only thing that kept me from permanently being crippled was my own ability to keep my bone fragments in place while the bueracracy decided to figure it out.
tabzthefish's avatar
Violation of human rights as far as im concerned. That's an extreem view in some ways but i'd back it 
siantjudas's avatar
I know there has to be a better way to deal with healthcare.
UnknownSingularity's avatar
I think Nigel Farage is not xenophobic, he is just saying what the politically correct class wants to deny. Facts are facts... Mass immigration creates lots of issues and needs to be regulated for the prosperity of all citizens of the world....


monotsleigh's avatar
Replace European with Jews or blacks. Also we still want our freedom of movement but not the freedom of movement of others to us, we can't all have it our own way...like in a relationship we need to talk with the EU seriously, and them to talk with us. Most of the time is because we throw money at everyone, so thats why even under international law, asylum seekers still carry onto the UK, because we have higher benifits than other EU countries.
tabzthefish's avatar
I would agree that health care tourism is a problem for the NHS. Having said that people coming to the UK who are ill do have to pay for treatment. in fact the NHS has and can make money from this.

www.theguardian.com/society/20…
www.independent.co.uk/life-sty…

My problem with Farage is that he turns almost every problem the UK has into one that can be solely pinned on immigration.  

If Farage is so worried about the NHS and the economy then why not talk about all the problems facing the NHS? One such problem is alcohol abuse which costs the NHS somewhere in the region of £3-6bn a year: 

www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/adult-a…
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic…

And that doesn't even take into account the cost it has on business. As workers are pulling sick days because of being hungover:
pwc.blogs.com/press_room/2014/…
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3…

Worse still are the figures for alcohol related crimes www.ias.org.uk/Alcohol-knowled…

Add it all together and it is a massive financial burden on the NHS and the UK as a whole but no politician including Farage will mention it because it wont win votes and that ultimately is why Farage is so "concerned" about immigration because it is easy to win votes while pointing the finger at foreigners. 
UnknownSingularity's avatar
Is sharia law the solution to the UK problems?
UnknownSingularity's avatar
An alcohol prohibition? :evileye: