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January 25, 2013
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Religious Liberty and Public Values

:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
WASHINGTON (RNS) Half of Americans worry that religious freedom in the U.S. is at risk, and many say activist groups -- particularly gays and lesbians -- are trying to remove "traditional Christian values" from the public square.

The findings of a poll published Wednesday (Jan. 23), reveal a "double standard" among a significant portion of evangelicals on the question of religious liberty, said David Kinnaman, president of Barna Group, a California think tank that studies American religion and culture.

While these Christians are particularly concerned that religious freedoms are being eroded in this country, "they also want Judeo-Christians to dominate the culture," said Kinnamon.

"They cannot have it both ways," he said. "This does not mean putting Judeo-Christian values aside, but it will require a renegotiation of those values in the public square as America increasingly becomes a multi-faith nation."

Religious freedom has become an increasingly important political issue within the last year, as Republican candidates hammered President Obama for a contraception mandate that many conservatives feel tramples on the religious freedom of employers who must cover birth control in their health plans.

The poll of 1,008 adults showed that 29 percent of respondents were "very" concerned that religious liberties are under threat, and 22 percent "somewhat" concerned. Evangelicals were the religious group most likely to be concerned, at 71 percent.

Asked for their opinion as to why religious freedom is threatened, 97 percent of evangelicals agreed that "some groups have actively tried to move society away from traditional Christian values."

And 72 percent of evangelicals also agreed that gays and lesbians were the group "most active in trying to remove Christian values from the country." That compares to 31 percent of all adults who held this belief.
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:iconculturalrider:
Culturalrider Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2013
I'm sorry, but I can't really care about religious liberty if you don't care about the religious liberty of others.
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:icongalacticgoat:
GalacticGoat Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
tl;dr: Fundies are like a kid with a bag of candy that is asked to share it with the class. He acts like its so unfair when if he doesn't then only he may enjoy candy. Him not sharing is the actual unfair action and yet he does it under the assumption otherwise he is being harmed.

That's the thing about being in a privilege majority: you're so used to being above others you view any semblance of society gaining equality as the same as being oppressed.

Religious freedom is in no way threaten, Christian rule is being threaten and those two are vastly different things. If this brand of Christian actually valued religious freedom then it would also value freedom from religion and therefore wouldn't be against the legality and accessibility of things like birth control and gay marriage.

For the record before someone points out this stupid shit: things like murder and theft are wrong for reasons outside Christian doctrine. Even a sociopath, a person unable to feel empathy, can be convinced with logic that murder and theft are damaging things that would harm them if they committed it. So saying "well if gays can marry because they're free of religion why can't I kill someone?" is just plain asinine and just shows some Christians do not understand the difference between laws and religious based morality.

Actually that's the whole problem with some Christians to begin with: the only reason they don't want gays to marry is because they think the laws and their religion are one in the same and they honestly do live in a theocracy. This is good reason democracy sometimes fails: when your population does not understand its religion is an independent entity from the laws you get people thinking if they let something against their religion fly that their religion freedom is actually being harmed when not letting it fly is actually doing that but just to people of a different religion.

If any organization in the US is harming religious freedom its some sects of Christianity. The only good news is they're losing and maybe, just maybe, the US will be free from that type of religious oppression in the next few decades.
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:iconrhichter:
Rhichter Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013
America has its head up the catholic churches ass, news at 11.
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:iconkalinka-shadows:
Kalinka-Shadows Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
It's not that religious freedom in the US is endangered, it's that Christian domination in the US is endangered.

Up until about 40 years ago, the predominant religion in the US was Christianity.

Here is the thing, Christianity's Bible, and the US's constitution are fundamentally at odds with one another. Fundamentalists like James Rushdoony (who died in 1913) truly understood, democracy and the Bible were enemies. God set up Kings for Humans to be ruled by, and the US was founded by men seeking to over throw a Christian King in favor of a democracy of men.

Most of the major civil rights conflicts of the USA has been: Democracy, and fair treatment of people, vs. the Bible. if you really think about it.
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:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Our nation was not founded on Christian values, but rather by both secular and religious people alike. While I am a Christian myself, I don't believe our nation should be a theocracy. Some values should be incorporated and some traditions should be preserved, yes, but not so much as to completely block out other faiths and religions on American soil.
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:iconculturalrider:
Culturalrider Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013
The problem is that Christians want to believe that the country was founded on traditional Christian values.

You could show them endless quotes from founding fathers, explain how many values held by the founding fathers contradict values held in the Bible, explain how America was likely the most secular country at the time of its founding, ect. Also, many of the founding fathers had turned away from Christianity altogether and embraced deism. Despite all the evidence, Christian fundamentalists throw all of that away because...

They want a theocracy, but they can't come out and say it.

This is their BS justification.

They want a Christian version of Saudi Arabia or the Taliban-ruled Afghanistan.

Given how badly they want this and how willing they are to rewrite history, the only thing that can be done is to fight them tooth and nail.
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:iconvisionoftheworld:
VISIONOFTHEWORLD Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
:iconthisplz:
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
No, there's no fighting needed. Just make sure the more radical representatives of the christian right continue to speak publicly - they've been marginalizing themselves quite effectively.
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:iconvisionoftheworld:
VISIONOFTHEWORLD Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013
christianist believes that 'religious freedom' and christianist ideas dominating society to be the same thing.
I object to the study breaking out groups of religions like 'evangelical' because it invalidates the claim that these 1008 respondants are random and over-represents certain groups over others. If you are going to ask 1000 people, then ask 1000 (Americans!) don't go find groups of people and proportion them artificially and construct an outcome.
This is why I hate polls and barely pay attention to them- and Obama's reelection somehow stunned the shit out of a lot of ignorant people willingly allowing themselves to be led around by the nose. And to be honest I don't care about what 'evangelicals' think because they are a renegade cult that have turned their backs on God.
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:iconhungryartistsunited:
hungryartistsunited Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
Pixel art-vertising: [link]
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
Post that in projects, not here.
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:iconthegman0:
theGman0 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Hobbyist
he's a spammer.
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
They really need a better way of weeding those folks out on this board. :bored:
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:iconkhomaa:
Khomaa Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
>Freedom of religion (or lack thereof)
>Create a law that bans same sex marriage even though the idea of it being immoral is a religious one.

Uhm..okay America :U
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:iconsmkiller:
Smkiller Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Hobbyist
To be fair, it's not all for religious reason. I've come across atheists who are against it as well.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
I'd bet money that the atheists who are against it were raised in a Christian environment.
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:iconsmkiller:
Smkiller Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Hobbyist
I don't doubt that possibility.
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:iconincandescentinsanity:
IncandescentInsanity Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student General Artist
All I hear is WAHHH WAHHH WAAAAH

Good thing they'll all die before I do
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:iconfantasylover103:
fantasylover103 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
:o


I never knew this....

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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
Now you do. :clap:
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:iconhorus2299:
Horus2299 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
So they complain about not having religious freedom, and a second later say they want the country to be a theocracy?

That's what I hate about the religious right, they say outrageous things like that, and it ends up taking away the credibility from intelligent conservatives. Any valid point they might be making gets drowned out by their lack of logical thinking, and it reinforces the stereotype of all conservative Christians being out of touch with reality. This isn't even a matter of being liberal or conservative, Christian or not, it's a matter of having logically consistent principles. I usually don't like to say anything bad about Christians, but in the face of blatant hypocrisy like that, I couldn't help myself.
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:iconfootinadream:
footinadream Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student General Artist
Interesting article, I think u present the most objective stories of anyone I've seen on DA, I'm so proud to be part of your group :D looking at some of the comments, I think many people can learn a thing or two from you about objectivity lol you have definitely set the bar for me :)
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Why thank you. It helps that I have a lot of experience arguing against my beliefs. :hmm:
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:iconxgame-over:
xGame-Over Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Well considering how the Christian Bible has talking animals in it and calls shellfish an abomination in the same part that it says "gays are bad," I'd hardly put any stock in their opinion on the subject...
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:iconfootinadream:
footinadream Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student General Artist
you might be surprised then, there are some very intelligent religious people :)
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:iconxgame-over:
xGame-Over Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
Oh, no I don't mean to say all religious people are unintelligent, I just mean I don't put much credit in the words of those who could be called "hardcore" or are incredibly, strictly religious.

I by no means meant to insinuate that religious people are stupid, I'd be one hell of a hypocrite to be intolerate of people I call intolerant.
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:iconfootinadream:
footinadream Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Student General Artist
ok I think I misunderstood, sorry about that :) I too have noticed that people frequently can fall victim to believing absurd things from the bible that are taken out of historical context.
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:iconsapphirezero:
SapphireZero Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student Writer
That is a very small group of people to rely on any sort outlook on how religious folk view their rights. Are there any larger sample sizes, or am I to just rely on around 1000 people and their opinions?
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:icondadona777:
dadona777 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
some [most] christians make me really sad
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
It's not simply Christians. All religions have their quirks.
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:icondadona777:
dadona777 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
that is true
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
It is. :whisper:
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
The Barna Group is hardly an unbiased source.
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:iconkell0x:
Kell0x Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student Digital Artist
It is really scary how a gay person wanting equal rights to marry the person they love is somehow violating a Christian right.

People are being denied rights based on other people's belief system. Isn't that way of thinking outdated?
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
But don't be surprised. Organized religion has far overstepped the the boundaries of any institution.
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:iconmpsai:
MPsai Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013   Digital Artist
Don't forget that having gays protected under hate crime and discrimination laws and not having graven images of the Ten Commandments on government property somehow infringes on people's freedom to practice Christianity. 
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:iconkell0x:
Kell0x Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student Digital Artist
how about the fact anti bullying groups and classes are not allowed to mention that its NOT okay to bully gay people because that would violate Christians right not to like homosexuality.


:|
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Yes, but they're also outdated. Doesn't stop them from thinking that they're Superior.
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Modern isn't always the definition of just.
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Certainly; but let's think of it this way: Do I want to teach kids history from a book before the moon landings?
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Depends. Are the works of authors before the moon landings irrelevant?
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
In a manner of speaking from the standpoint of the world of fact.
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:iconpuddelbal:
puddelbal Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Which would make the US Constitution irrelevant.
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Well, there are many points within the Constitution that have failed in the expansion and growth; changes in language, definition, and so on.
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(1 Reply)
:iconkell0x:
Kell0x Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Student Digital Artist
:( That's true...


JIJI :la:
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Evangelicals are far right retards who view equality as a sin. F them.

""traditional Christian values""
Code word for theocratic domination and oppressive religious agendas.

You can be any religion you want. No one contests that besides the christians.
You can practice your religion (provided that it's christian) freely.
Your religion is not law, is not the core of society, and is not something you can force down everyone's throats no matter how much christian zealots wnat to think they can.

The United States of America is not a christian nation. It is not tied to mythological biblical roots.
The United States is a federal constitutional republic that happens to have christians living in it.

Far right christians want equality only for people they approve of. That's biased.
Far right christians want their version of their religion to be the source of morality and social guidance regardless of what you thin about that. They're arrogant.
Far right christians will call gay marriage equality an assault on religion and then in the same breathe attack gays, women using contraceptives, and abortion as evil done by people who choose to do evil and that's their religious freedom not religious oppression.

The religion is corrupt and the so called moderates either live in denial or look the other way.
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:icondebit:
Debit Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Notice how fundies do not give a damn about real-life, except within the realm of their petty political and economic interests.

To add insult to injury, they do not even bother to study an ongoing real-life theocracy at work: Islamic Republic of Iran. The Iranian theocrats gained power by overthrowing the Shah's oppressive and the decadent regime. However, what have they become? They have turned out to be even more corrupt and oppressive than their predecessor, while relying on brinkmanship to maintain the 'us versus them' atmosphere to stay in power.

Of course, these fundies have a catch-all solution to this critical observation: Our God is the truth, He is different from the rest of the gods and idols.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013
Yup, that's always the way it works isn't it? One bad idea replaced by a worse one.
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:icondebit:
Debit Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
The same applies to secular right-wing and conservative types as well. Based on what I have noticed about their dogma, they WANT and NEED economic crises in order to gain power for themselves.

They should be rounded up, tortured to obtain more leads, then be executed. They, and their fundie/evangelical counterparts are or will become the single biggest threat to the Republic.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
If I said that I would be getting an anonymous message from my stalker mod:rofl:
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