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January 17, 2013
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Straw Feminists

:iconwitwitch:
witwitch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Student Writer
[link]

I've never met a feminist like those portrayed often in the media in real life. I've never met a feminist who wanted to castrate all men.

I'm a feminist who wants equality, not female domination. All feminists I know want equality with men, not to be more important than them.

Read the article. Tell me what you think about this subject.
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Devious Comments

:iconcodepurpleyedrawings:
CodePurpleyedrawings Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Oh, Radfems! Don't worry, they will spaz out for an extended period of time and then for a few minutes they recharge their energy and blog. This is your opportunity to get the hell away.
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:icondelusionalhamster:
delusionalHamster Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
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:iconbmagnum:
BMagnum Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
Ah, straw feminists. While I was on RationalWiki, I encountered a page on the Redfem hub. Oh sweet powdery jesus...
These people make me sad. The most memorable I ever heard from them being:
"All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves ... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."
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:iconbmagnum:
BMagnum Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
Ah, straw feminists. While I was on RationalWiki, I encountered a page on the Redfem hub. Oh sweet powdery jesus...
These people make me sad. The most memorable I ever heard from them being:
"All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves ... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."
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:iconhungryartistsunited:
hungryartistsunited Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
Pixel art-vertising: [link]
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:iconagburanar:
Agburanar Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013
The amusing irony in all this is that the radical feminist community continues to obliterate whatever credibility it ever had by mischaracterizing and exaggerating portrayals of feminists in contemporary media.
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:iconartisticaxis:
ArtisticAxis Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
I think people take this subject way too seriously.
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:iconzeflyingmuppet:
ZeFlyingMuppet Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
A world of imperfect, we have here :no:
Blah... I think getting equality could very possibly take higher measures than extremism.

Why can't we just have equality? Because there's always that one person who is a wannabe Hitler.
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:iconb-gata:
B-gata Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013
It's depressing people still complain about feminism (or most equal rights movements). I would expect that in the 1960s. Not in 2013. How many years does it take for people to get comfortable with these things?
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
As many years as it takes for feminists to stop being jerkasses.

Most people nowadays support equality. They just don't support feminists.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
agreed

*HIGH FIVE*
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Uh-oh. This doesn't mean I have to check off my signs of the apocalypse list, does it?
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
yes
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Feb 18, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Dang it. So few unchecked things left...
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:iconb-gata:
B-gata Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013
Most people would label even you a feminist, on account of all those feminist ideas you preach. I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there has convinced themselves you told them you hate it when men open doors for you, at this point.

Stop arguing with me though, you always misinterpret stuff as some sort of bizarre attack on your personal life, and I don't want to make you feel that way even if it's not intentional.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Oh, by the way: [link]

If you can't confront an opponent with an intellectually honest argument, quote them out of context and slander them into silence! It's the feminist way!

But the OP wonders why everyone hates feminists.
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:iconb-gata:
B-gata Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
Why are you linking that to me, and why does that make you hate feminists?? You talk about people behind their backs too rather than confronting them. Practically everyone on this forum does. I know I've seen you argue with people who were definitely not feminist who acted the same way--what would this behavior be labelled then?

I'm willing to agree that you have some beef with some specifically feminist ideas, but what you're pointing out to me is just a common douchebaggy behavior that tons of people use, which you're trying to push as a feminist trait. I'm not interested in that kind of thing.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Because I find social justice folks in general tend to pull those tactics more than any other folks.

Say what you will about the nutso conservatives here, but they usually confine themselves to this forum. It's the SJ people who've spewed crap about me on my profile (which is why I blocked Psychro), and spread slander about me in other forums.

I've ironically had more nasty convos with the feminists and similar extreme lefties on this forum than I have with the right-wingers. And at least the righties don't call me evil for the crime of agreeing with their cause in the wrong way.
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:iconb-gata:
B-gata Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
But you're a social justice folk.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Yes, I know. That's what drives me crazy.

It's like having this horrible asshole of an uncle that you're forced to still admit you're related to.

Actually, it's probably more like when most of your family is assholes and you're one of the few halfway normal people, and they insult you for not being an asshole, too.
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(1 Reply)
:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Ironically I would have considered myself a feminist too, back in the day. Then I deal with, you know, the shit I dealt with in this thread and other feminist topic threads and now I feel like, "Fuck you people."

Which I guess was my thought. I agree I support a lot of feminist ideals. I just don't really support many of the actual feminists, at this point. (Especially since I've had a number of them call me misogynist or "brainwashed by the patriarchy" or whatev.)

So I wasn't arguing with you here, exactly. More just clarifying/correcting. Unless you meant other threads.

Wait, are you the one who was defending Psychro in that other thread? (Sorry, I mix up some people's screennames sometimes.) If so, you're, like, his sane friend. I just get exceedingly frustrated with this forum at times. Actually, he used to be sane at one point too, even if we disagreed, but now it's like, "Dude, what the fuck?"
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:iconb-gata:
B-gata Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
I'm not sure how I should be responding to you calling psychro insane considering he's obviously one of my friends. Kinda awkward. But yeah, I was one of the people in that thread, though I stopped arguing since it seemed like you thought I was calling you some super-privileged person who doesn't suffer or work as hard as others, which is about as far from my line of thinking as one can get.

I don't see why feminists in general would be jerkasses or people who don't want equality for something like disagreeing with you on what counts as misogyny. But at least you have had actual confrontations with people who identify as feminist, rather than solely basing your opinion on unfounded stereotypes.

I don't think this is the case with most people who are anti-feminist though. It's probably fair to say most of the hatred comes from bigotry or ignorance.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Well... I guess I meant it not as an insult, but as an actual sort of, "I'm kind of worried about this dude" kind of way. Granted, this forum seems to have that effect on people, including me.

I don't know, the impression I get from various blogs I read complaining about feminists is that people are complaining about/rebutting actual feminists, rather than fictional versions or stereotypes. It doesn't help that a lot of the feminist stereotypes turn out to not be that far off-based when you talk to some actual feminists.

Certainly this thread has me rather annoyed. I don't even care about being friendzoned that much, and considered my other two posts in this thread more relevant, but then I got piled on. In ways that ironically just further cement my views of feminists.

I think at this point the movement needs to be metaphorically burned and started over. The core goal of gender equality still has much work to be done before being complete, but the current crop of feminism isn't the one that's going to get it done. Right now even MRA and egalitarian movements can't do much either because it's almost impossible to do anything regards men's rights or gender equality in general without having to bump into/address/fight the feminists in some way, which turns it into a big war of the sexes instead.

Especially when, as my friendzoned pile on is just one example of, feminists are just welded to so many myths and stereotypes they absolutely refuse to let go of. There's a growing hoard of that ideological detritus piling up in the movement.
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:iconb-gata:
B-gata Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
If you look at the reactions in this thread, most of the negative reactions are just stereotypes. We've got the random door thing that I mentioned earlier, but we've also got "feminists don't care about the draft", that feminists don't care about men's issues, that feminists (or any girl who objects to bad treatment?) are all lesbians or ugly, a lot of implications that feminists can only be women, and that stuff about "extreme" or "nazi" feminists (because feminists go around killing people and eradicating the extermination of groups of people all the time, apparently). As for ignorance, there are people claiming that we live in a world where sexism no longer exists. And then there are the people saying the word "feminist" is exclusionary. Not sure what to call that since it means taking on the idea that all movements, ideologies, philosophies, and specialties are unfair in their focus on specific topics.

I'm not sure why you're separating feminism from other egalitarian movements, as some of the most grounded criticisms of feminism are those shared with other egalitarian movements. For example, phrasings like "this group experiences the worst kind of oppression" and a tendency to ignore trends in the way different groups of people experience oppression are a big problem in activist movements in general.

"I think at this point the movement needs to be metaphorically burned and started over."
There's never going to be a movement in which every member is immaculate or where everyone agrees with your specific views. You could start it over again and again and you still wouldn't get the result you wanted. There'd also still be the problem with a bunch of people hating it out of bigotry and ignorance. Let's not start with the idea that it's the "current crop" of feminists that are bad, either. People complained even more about feminism in the past, and included many of the same excuses that are used now.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
"but we've also got 'feminists don't care about the draft',"

Many don't. Few petition for the draft to be made unisex or removed. Some of the initial feminists didn't support the vote because they worried about being included in the draft.

"that feminists don't care about men's issues,"

Many don't, by either reframing them to be about women's issues (Witwitch actually discussed this with Unvalanced in this thread), or bitching that men are trying to steal the spotlight by going "what about the menz?"

Even those that do care tend to downplay them and treat them as less common/less important than women's issues.

"that feminists (or any girl who objects to bad treatment?) are all lesbians or ugly,"

Ironically whenever I disagree on any dating matters, I tend to have the feminists tell me something along the lines of "well, just because you're an ugly woman desperate to be liked..."

"a lot of implications that feminists can only be women,"

A lot of which comes from feminists themselves, sometimes.

"As for ignorance, there are people claiming that we live in a world where sexism no longer exists."

I think the problem there is that feminists spend a lot of time crying wolf. They spend so much time arguing about areas where there really isn't or very little sexism once you examine the issue, that it makes it harder to be taken seriously on those matters that still exist.

Hell, look at the whole birth control bruhaha. Know why people bitching about "free birth control" has any traction? Because feminists have spent enough time asking for things that really were special treatment, that it makes it hard to get taken seriously those times when it's actually equal treatment (both sexes having the same costs for safe sex they engage in with each other).

In a way, that's why the people who are twits about social justice piss me off so much. Every time they make a stupid stance or advocate a stupid or frivolous policy, it makes legitimate issues that much harder to get taken seriously.

And then there are the people saying the word 'feminist' is exclusionary."

Admittedly reinforced by their behavior. Most of my own issues with them is that I get slammed for not being their very narrow view of the type of woman they feel they represent.

"I'm not sure why you're separating feminism from other egalitarian movements, as some of the most grounded criticisms of feminism are those shared with other egalitarian movements."

I'm not, really. The LGBT movements, racism movements, and such, can be just as bad in their own right. The whole Social Justice world is a giant poison pill. And it leaves people who'd like some equality without all the drama and myths a little adrift.
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(1 Reply)
:iconsnowchime:
snowchime Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Writer
I think the loudest people are heard the most, but that doesn't mean that they're right or even sane. I wane equality with men, too. I guess I'm a feminist. But I wouldn't want to put men down, or anyone for that matter. Not all men are bad, just like not all women are bad. "All God's children are terrible." *jumps and cheers at 30 Rock ref*
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:icondutchconnaisseur:
DutchConnaisseur Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013
I haven't met any feminists like that. I have met plenty of Dominating Femmes, but that was in a different scene :D
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
I haven't met any feminists like that. Unfortunately, most of the vocal feminists I have encountered are absolutely unbearable. Granted these are more the self-proclaimed feminists who thinks it's sexist if you hold a door open for them and shit like that.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I hold the door open for everybody, myself. Seems an easier approach.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
So do I, but for some reason some women take offense to it. Especially because I sometimes go out of my way and wait like five seconds for someone to get to the door if I'm feeling particularly nice.
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:iconno-doves-fly-here:
no-doves-fly-here Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
"So do I, but for some reason some women take offense to it."

This is likely because they are accustomed to men holding doors open for them for the sake of chivalry or ulterior motives, which is quite common in a lot of areas.

Their reaction may seem presumptive, irrational and downright petty to you because you know what your real motives are, but they have been operantly-conditioned by their experiences to respond that way. We all have little quirks which set us off because of bad experiences in the past. It's a natural part of human psychology.

If you really want to make them feel like presumptive asses, don't roll your eyes or try to explain to them how you're not that type of guy. Instead say, "Um, I'm gay so you can take your little attitude and shove it.", or some similarly snarky shit which they cannot argue with.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I sometimes feel a little awkward if someone opens a door when I'm still practically across the street so I feel obligated to hurry up, but I never get offended.

The occasional fella might look at me a little funny when I hold the door for them, but they usually still seem grateful, especially if they have an armful of packages or such.
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:iconsnowchime:
snowchime Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Writer
That happens to me, too! =D
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
Yeah, I really don't understand people not liking that.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Probably the "you're just doing it because you think you're a big man who needs to protect my poor weak self" or some crap.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
Probably. xD
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:iconspaniardwithknives:
SpaniardWithKnives Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I have met extreme feminist like you are describing here. Those are not feminist, those are feminazis.

The feminist movement was born in search of equality. As in all movements, you will find extremists.

I support equal rights for men and women and that means, the right to study, vote, chose your career, husband and take the leads of your life, but not the right to bash men using the excuse of feminism to do it.

I live in a environment in were men are a huge majority and I do not find discrimination against me (few people that knows me will have the guts to do it anyhow). Nobody ever gave anything for free. I earned my shit and my swagger with it.
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:iconno-doves-fly-here:
no-doves-fly-here Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
I wouldn't call them Feminazi's because that implies that they're radical feminists. They're not feminists at all, they're matriarchs.
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:icongalacticgoat:
GalacticGoat Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I wish people in this thread got this. Seriously there are people honestly in this very thread that think if a person claims to be a feminist they are by default a feminists even if they totally do not fit even remotely close to the definition of what a feminists is.

Seriously this isn't a case of "No true Scotmans"; this is a Chinese man claiming to be a Scottish person, acting like an asshole and then everyone believing that's how all Scottish people act. Its unbelievably pathetic and just goes to show a good portion of the forum population are fucking children that just follow whatever is popular to hate rather then what is logically good or bad.
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:iconno-doves-fly-here:
no-doves-fly-here Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
"Seriously this isn't a case of "No true Scotmans"; this is a Chinese man claiming to be a Scottish person, acting like an asshole and then everyone believing that's how all Scottish people act."

Analogy of the year right here.
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:icongalacticgoat:
GalacticGoat Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:lol: Thanks. Feel free to use it on the almost certain moron that will reply to you yammering about how they ttly proved all feminists are bad because they came across a few social justice sally blogs on the internet or crazies in the media.

Because of course there's a 0% chance those people are doing it for attention/are poes, no they're definitely for real feminists because they said they were because that's all you need to be a feminists: a single claim with no supporting evidence.
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:iconwitwitch:
witwitch Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Writer
Is that all you need to be an alien, too? Because I want to be an alien. If I say I am something, does that make me that something?
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:icongalacticgoat:
GalacticGoat Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Apparently according to a few users here that's a yes. From now one I'm a pixie toaster llama dinosaur and no one can say otherwise!
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:iconspaniardwithknives:
SpaniardWithKnives Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
You may be right, I have heard that term before but did not even know if they would apply to this cases in particular. Anyhow, those women are not so common.
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:iconmapper3:
mapper3 Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Student General Artist
For once, a term Bill O'reilly created has a correct usage. Feminazi.
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:icondefinedeviancydown:
DefineDeviancyDown Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Feminazi is a term popularized by radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh and in use since the early 1990's, it has been purloined by Bill O'Reilly who is incapable of an original thought. When Limbaugh first began using the term "feminazi" in the 1990s, he said that it described "a specific type of feminist" and that there were "probably no more than 25 of them."
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:iconmapper3:
mapper3 Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Student General Artist
Oh, I see.
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:iconspaniardwithknives:
SpaniardWithKnives Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Rush Limbaugh can be funny as hell. Sometimes he goes too far, but well, I thing he parodies himself too and hence has created his own character. Besides that, he does not shut up his mouth not even under water. I think he just loves to piss people off
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:icondefinedeviancydown:
DefineDeviancyDown Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
He illustrates absurdity by being absurd! As for his mouth, he doesn't back down, even after going overboard, defying liberals to do something about it. Thus far he's been successful and I believe he will continue in his success. I wanted to be sure he got credit for the feminazi appelation. O'Reilly had nothing to do with it.
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:iconspaniardwithknives:
SpaniardWithKnives Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Interesting, I did not know who made the term popular. I used to hear the man in the radio in the mornings. I cant help it, lol. In a country were politically correctenes is everywhere this is not easy to find.
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