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January 16, 2013
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Fan labor should be legalized!

:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
I was thinking: millions of people on and outside the Internet draw fan art, write fanfiction, develop fan games and do many other things. Unfortunately, this practice is currently illegal. What's more that fan labor is not usually made for the malicious purposes and is more made to pay tribute to the things they like or just want to get creative. Moreover, there are many fan works which have more effort put into them than works they're based upon.

What's terrible is that while fan works being illegal is often condemned, no one has really started a major campaign against legalizing them. Deviantart itself has just huge amounts of fan art and many sites like Fanfiction.net are specifically made to contain fanfiction of which it currently has over million pieces.

What are your opinions?
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Devious Comments

:iconnonecansee:
nonecansee Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist
I'm resigned to the fact that fan art will never be my own original design =P I know I can't sell my fan-works (but perhaps, with some permission, my fandom OCs are plausible for selling, but who wants to buy that? haha)

I respect the original creator's copyright but that won't stop me from doing fan art. So my opinion is fan works should be tolerated, as long as they aren't sold without consent of the original designer. Heck, you might even make more if they commissioned you to make art of their original designs. Licensing and all that :D

For now, fan works are a ticket to getting attention in the art industry. You use fan works to practice your skills and make works for your portfolio (and I have decided to do that also, haha). I heard that some Avatar:The Last Airbender fan artists now work for Mike and Bryan on Korra :lol: I also saw this this anime-ed version of a scene of the Simpsons and the dA user said it helped her get a job.
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:iconhungryartistsunited:
hungryartistsunited Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
Pixel art-vertising: [link]
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:iconinstinctbylaw:
InstinctbyLaw Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
NO MORE LEGALITY FOR FAN WORKS! Or we get more pathetic shit like Fifty Shades of Gray.
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:iconinstinctbylaw:
InstinctbyLaw Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Why should people make money off of someone's idea? If you though Spiderman was SUPER AWESOME! So you created someone called...Arachnidman, who used the same colors and almost had the exact same story and you thought you were inspired and creative, you're really just a thief, IF you try to make money.
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:iconredmarlin:
redmarlin Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
If fan art were illegal, I'm pretty sure DA would be shut down by now.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
Actually it is still illegal unless you manage to disguise it as a review or analysis or make sure it's a parody.
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:iconmeganmissfit:
MeganMissfit Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Well I sure as hell don't want people drawing pictures of MY stuff and selling it :|
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013
I didn't say anything about selling stuff.
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:icondebra-marie:
Debra-Marie Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
Labor? You wanna know what REAL labor is? it's coming up with an original character or idea. That's what labor is. Fan art is fun every now and then, but devoting yourself to it is unoriginal, and selling it is illegal. Someone else worked hard to design it, why not design your own?
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013
Have you heard about mockbusters?
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:icondebra-marie:
Debra-Marie Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
No, but I just looked them up! Reminds me of those crappy cartoons you find in the 5 dollar bin in walmart that are knock offs of disney movies and other cartoons.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013
And these are legal if you know how.
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:iconaviscelox:
AvisCelox Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm pretty sure it's only illegal if you claim to have created the concept and characters or sell it, or derivative works are prohibited. I'm okay with this; you should not really be profiting off of someone else's ideas. Fan labor is done because you like the source material and not for profit and some copyright-holders even encourage it.

Plus, I don't think the SWAT team is going to bang down some random person's door because they wrote a story about two characters they liked together, even if the original owner prohibited derivative works or they are making a couple dollars off it. Especially if it's a large company or popular work; there will be so much of this sort of thing the creator will probably only go after the ones where significant money is involved.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 20, 2013
If that legality was the vase, we'd have Crimson Echoes out officially.
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:iconshidaku:
Shidaku Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013
First: fan-art is not illegal, profiting from the creations of others is. Being originally created by someone else, that someone else has the power to control what's done with their creations. So the owner of Naruto can tell you to stop drawing him having sex with Sauske, but the government can't come to your home and confisate all your slash fiction.
Second: a great deal of fan-creations become legal because their creators submit ideas to the original owners and can be hired, or given permission to create them. I mean there's a reason there's a million Star Trek books out there and it isn't because Gene Roddenberry was just a fucking prolific writer.

People only get butthurt and whine about fan-art being "illegal" when they try to co-opt the original content for their own profit. You can't steal a Mercedes and paint it blue and call it a Cermedes and sell it as your own car. The same applies to fan works.
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:iconbohobella:
bohobella Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
Look, some people just don't want to see their beloved creations having rough anal sex.
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:lol:
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:iconsupermariofan:
SuperMarioFan Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013
From what I've read, the legal status of fanfiction/fanart mainly depend on the series and/or author, but is pretty much only illegal if you're claiming the characters/series as your own and/or trying to make a profit off of it. Or if the author chooses to prohibit derivative works based upon their work, which they have the right to do. But thankfully, most series/authors don't seem to mind, and many actually ENCOURAGE it (i.e.: Nintendo, Sega)

Still though, even with that, I agree with this topic. By the way, have you heard of the OTW (Organization for Transformative Works)? They're an organization that advocates for the legality of fan works, and I totally commend them for that! :D
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:iconmercury-crowe:
Mercury-Crowe Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
Um, it's not illegal to draw.

Nobody every goes after someone for drawing fanart. If they start SELLING it and make enough money, the company that owns it may go after them.

There are certain professions that you can't get into UNLESS you have fanart in your portfolio. It isn't about the image, it's about the cash.

And 'legalizing' fanart means getting rid of copyright law. And, yeah, that isn't gonna happen.
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional General Artist
What are your opinions?

That your opening post is largely ill-informed nonsense.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Actually, their opening post is quite accurate. It was refreshing to see someone who actually does understand how fanworks... work, as opposed to the various pop opinions.
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional General Artist
No it isn't. It blithely ignores things like jurisdiction, and otherwise paints a fairly myopic, clue-deprived mini-rant that does little to actually explain whats going on.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Nope, it's 100% correct.

Unless you'd like to prove you actually know what you're talking about, as opposed to spouting more of the erroneous pop-culture-BS-view-of-copyright-and-fanwork that almost everyone in this thread who disagrees with the OP has been spouting.
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional General Artist
No, it's not correct.

Unless you would like to cite some legal precedence (based on actual jurisdiction/choice of law) I'd say at best your effort is the only spouting going on. To that end, it is vacuous and just as shrill as the OP.

You don't have to like it, but that doesn't change the legal scaffolding this all holds to. As someone who may not be a lawyer, but has actual training and experience in IP related legal issues (12+ years professionally), including 6 years working for a copyright-enforcement firm...feel free to "call my bluff", if you think one actually exists.

Or try to prove a negative. I enjoy petulant people grinding out futility with so much conviction. It reinforces my elitism.
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:iconinstinctbylaw:
InstinctbyLaw Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
We can all tell you have a dictionary and thesaurus next to you...did you know you're computer has one too?
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
Actually I speak this way perfectly well without the aid of either (although I do own a nice copy of the OED)

Thanks for showing your fixation on my grasp of syntax and vocabulary and a total neglect of the substantive content of the post. It tells me a lot about the quality of your own thinking process.

If the above sentence is too difficult to grasp, here's another:

Get bent you little trollop.
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:iconinstinctbylaw:
InstinctbyLaw Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Hahahaha it is okay to look up your words, it broadens your horizons, no need to get butt hurt :)
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(1 Reply)
:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
OK. [link]
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional General Artist
That's it? Goddamn you are bitter for not being taken at face value. But hey, let's take your link and unpack it a bit, since it actually refers to some of the very things I am referring to. In the third section it actually states:

"The law, however, does not clearly define whether fictitious characters, worlds, histories and names are copyright protected."

In the fourth section, "Whether a court will view this as the case for a particular work of fan fiction depends on how much of the story relies on copyrighted materials, whether the story is sold, or affects the market for the copyrighted work, and other factors. There is no easy answer to the question, which is why it is often a good idea to consult a lawyer who can assess the particular facts of your case. "

(note that looking at it, the page seems to presume jurisdiction is the US or a similar Berne convention adherent)

That same FAQ references other limitations and other aspects and edge cases that may or may not apply to the OPs inchoate rant.

This gets into the Fair Use gray area.

You are welcome.

Try Again.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Sigh, you're a fucking retard.

[link] [link] [link] [link]
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(1 Reply)
:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013
How so?
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional General Artist
Your "respect" isn't a legal convention. Nor is fanfiction inherently illegal. Depending on jurisdiction it could be if published, or if sold for profit (or both). Depending on jurisdiction and venue (where one chooses to publish) the venue may opt to take a conservative position and disallow publication; in the case of a private entity (i.e. fanfiction.net or deviantart.com) they may opt to do so under any number of conventions that could be more restrictive than the law requires (i.e. Terms of Service/Terms and Conditions).

This is not just IP, but also contract law at work. Also, choosing to term your effort as "labor" is from a legal standpoint, misguided. Unless you were doing the work with the expectation of compensation, its not "labor".
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013
"Fan labor" is an actual term.
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:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional General Artist
Its a term within fanfic communities, but it has zero legal meaning.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013
And that's what I was trying to prove. That "Fan labor" should have a legal meaning since it currently has not. Maybe even a fan labor mark to let the others know.
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:iconinstinctbylaw:
InstinctbyLaw Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't believe fans should get paid to create other people's work, Fan Labor should just gain a new name...like Fan Art.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
Fan labor is fan art + fan fiction and other medium.
Plus I didn't say anything about getting paid of fan labor. Why does everyone think I mentioned that?
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(1 Reply)
:iconzeruch:
zeruch Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013  Professional General Artist
And that's what I was trying to prove.

No, your initial post was trying to prove you like ranting aimlessly.

"Fan Labor", why does it require a legal meaning of its own? Why should it not fit within the already understood IP and Contract law?

There is a fan labor market, mostly a gift economy, but it does notexist outside the other laws.

You are conflating various things together, and it makes your arguments lack any clarity, or coherence.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2013
I'm sorry but you know that copyright holders can shut down a majoe fan work even if that's 99% completed and they can do it in pure malice.
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(2 Replies)
:iconbumsy:
Bumsy Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
You cannot sell art of copyrighted character/content unless you've been granted permission by the original authors. Who will probably want a share of any profits you make from it.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
I didn't say anything about selling it.
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:iconpandadrake:
Pandadrake Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Fan works are not illegal unless it's for profit.

Also a lot of property is considered public domain, and is legal to make derivations of for profit.

If fan-fiction and fan art was considered the same legally as the originals I would hate it. For one thing, it is a lot harder to create work with original concepts, and eventually more fulfilling. Producing art that is derivative of someone else's concepts is a creative crutch, because you have not put an ounce of work into world-building, and if you have, you're discrediting your own work to leech off a bigger name for attention.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
Sometimes fandoms contribute more to a world-building than canon itself.
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:iconpandadrake:
Pandadrake Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You mean by turning the whole cast into ponies or lions?

I don't see how adding random details about characters or the world can compare to actually creating the characters and the world, and developing their relationships in the first place.
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:iconinstinctbylaw:
InstinctbyLaw Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
fuck ponies...I like lions though and horses. When it came to Disney buying Lucas Films, all the books became uncanon because the next movie is going to have nothing to do with the work already written, or so they say.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
You can create character even quicker by using procedural generation.
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:iconpandadrake:
Pandadrake Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Since when was speed an issue?

You sounds like someone who's never tried to do decent world-building before. I suppose this explains why copyright protection is even being questioned in this thread.
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:iconartman40:
Artman40 Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
If you draw a random creature, hten it's likely that EA can take it down if they find a Spore creature that matches what you made.
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
I think that would open up a pretty big can of worms, I think the way it's handled now is relatively successful, enough not to warrant drastic changes anyway. Full legality would almost certainly introduce a lot of negative consequences to creators.
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