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January 7, 2013
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The Student Debt Crisis (this affects most of us)

:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
If you are like me and in your mid to late 20s, you were raised with the notion that Education is the key element of getting you ahead in this rat race we call life. We were told time and time again by our parents, the media, our own peers, and our teachers that to get anywhere in life you must have a college education. We were thrown statistic after statistic showing how college-graduates make tons more than high school graduates.

From personal experience, when I was in 11th grade it was actually near social taboo to say that you have no urge or real want to go to college. You'd be looked down upon by your peers, and often viewed as a loser or a slacker for having such views.
And now we, as 20 something year olds, and recent graduates of this belief are facing the harsh reality of no jobs, extremely low paying jobs, and debt.

And so we come to the heart, and the terror of the coming bubble. The Student Debt Bubble. We cannot sit on the peripheral on this one. Our parents' may have lost their homes, and we saw what it did to them, but now it is our turn, and our bubble is much, MUCH worse. So how bad is it?!

Some key facts:
The Education Department in September released the first ever student default article. [link]
Some more links and info: [link]
Breakdown:
-Of the 914 Billion dollars worth of student loan debt, over 122 Billion in federal student loans are in default. And growing.
-Private institutions have a 22% default rate as opposed to the public institutions at 14%. And growing.
-11% of student debt is over 90 days (3 month) deliquency. It rose 2% in one quarter. And growing.
-The above figure is also probably half the real amount since nearly 40% of student loans are in deffernment.
And this is only in reference to FEDERAL student loans. Not private student loans.
When you are in so much debt, a smart thing to do would be to declare bankrupcy. In fact, many people have done just that, to get over their own personal housing bubble crisis. However, we are not so lucky.
You CANNOT get rid of student debt through bankrupcy unless extremely special circumstances are present. That's right. This debt you have on you, you have to repay, no matter what. Welcome to true debt slavery.

OR IS IT?!

Big Government is here to rescue us all! From the Wall Street Journal: [link]
"A new federal program should make it easier for some recent college graduates to keep their student-loan payments manageable.
The new option, known as the "Pay as You Earn Repayment Plan," lets eligible borrowers sharply lower their monthly loan payments and qualify for loan forgiveness quicker than they might otherwise.
"It's a very good safety net for students who borrow too much," says Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of the financial-aid site FinAid.org. "If your debt exceeds your annual income, you will probably benefit."
Pay as You Earn, which took effect on Dec. 21, "is designed to help offset the effects of the recession for student borrowers most likely to take a hit in this tough job market," says Lauren Asher, president of the Institute for College Access and Success, which has pushed for the creation of income-based repayment plans."
Ahhh the blissfuly wonderful safety net that would make it so much more palapable to get that stinkin' loan.
"The new program comes at a time when rising student-loan balances—amid a still shaky job market—have weighed heavily on many families.
Typically, federal student loans must be repaid within 10 years. At current interest rates, that can work out to a monthly payment of roughly $300 for a borrower with $26,000 in debt.
Pay as You Earn, by contrast, limits student-loan payments to 10% of "discretionary income" as defined by government formulas. Borrowers who make regular payments could have the remaining unpaid amounts forgiven after 20 years."
Oh me oh my! You are telling me that I can go ahead and take out a loan of 140,000 for education (which also can be used for a lot of neat things like drugs, tattoos, and even an occasional Ipad), and pay less than 100 bucks a month and after 20 years the rest is paid for by the tax payer?
Oh it get's even better.
"In some cases, borrowers with low incomes could be required to make a zero-dollar payment and would still be considered current on their loan. Monthly payments can increase or decrease each year based on the borrower's income and family size."
SO I don't even HAVE to pay!?
And if 20 years is too much for us to bear, come work for Big Government!
"Borrowers with public-service jobs may qualify for loan forgiveness after just 10 years."
But what are the constraints?
"To be eligible for the program, borrowers must have taken out their first federal student loan after Sept. 30, 2007, and received at least one federal student loan after Sept. 30, 2011. Borrowers also must meet eligibility cutoffs based on the size of their debt, their discretionary income and family size."

We've all been swindled.
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Devious Comments

:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
Here is a article to add to this: Nearly half are overqualified for their jobs [link]

The Study is based on 2010 Labor Department data, says the problem is the stock of college graduates in the workforce (41.7 million) in 2010 was larger than the number of jobs requiring a college degree (28.6 million).

That, he says, helps explain why 15% of taxi drivers in 2010 had bachelor's degrees vs. 1% in 1970. Among retail sales clerks, 25% had a bachelor's degree in 2010. Less than 5% did in 1970.

"There are going to be an awful lot of disappointed people because a lot of them are going to end up as janitors," Vedder says. In 2010, 5% of janitors, 115,520 workers, had bachelor's degrees, his data show.
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:icondebit:
Debit Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This sort of overqualification is more visible in places like South Korea where its economy is considerably smaller than the US but there is an intense pressure to get college degrees regardless of everything else. Almost a decade ago, I happened to see a documentary on South Korean college graduates having tough time getting jobs. One extreme case was a man who actually had a Ph.D. but ended up making a living as a milk deliveryman. Even for other postgraduates who were more fortunate were not that much better off; tenured academic positions were in a scare supply and many of them had to get by with positions like non-tenured part-time teaching jobs in colleges and cram schools.

I would not be surprised to see a similar trend in the US.
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:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
Oh man. I wonder if I can edit original post I would have loved to include this.
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:iconsydnerella:
sydnerella Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013   Writer
I think the main problem with student debt is actually coming from for profit schools. The Government Accountability Office did a report on this actually, these schools only enroll 10% of students nationwide, but this 10% takes out a quarter of federal student loans and make up almost half of the student loan defaults in the nation. That means 10% of the students in the nation, going to a very specific type of college, are resulting in a massive amount of the statistics we're all hearing on the news.

It doesn't mean the students are really to blame either. The GAO report found that a lot of the recruiters at schools they were investigating were either being deceptive, or outright committing fraud. Basically exaggerating how job outlooks are after completing a program, and in the extreme cases, having students unknowingly falsify financial aid forms.

This is because recruiters earn a commission on the students they persuade to enroll. These schools make the majority of their profit on federal loans, but they do not lose money when a student defaults on a loan.

It's actually a huge problem. It's not to say these schools can't be beneficial to some people, but that in a lot of cases they are unsuccessful. If the government is going to keep basically providing the profit for these private industries, then I think the government has every right to step in. Yet they have not.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
tl;dr. Don't get student loans. Problem solved. Get a job, apply to every scholarship and grant, go to community college for your general studies, don't pick a major that won't make you money if you know you can't afford the major.
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:iconsydnerella:
sydnerella Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013   Writer
I'll agree with you on community colleges and scholarships. I have been able to avoid any debt due to this. I also understand that a job can definitely help, but most college students will not find jobs that are able to pay for college completely.

There is a point you are missing with the grants though. If you have parents who are middle class, chances are you will not qualify for any government assistance. Unless, of course, you are legally independent, but for most people (save those who get married, have a child, join the armed forces, etc), this is not legally possible until you are 26. Despite living on my own, without any financial help from my parents, for a year, I could not qualify as independent because the parameters for doing so have become very strict. It mainly comes down to your parents tax bracket, and unfortunately that stops some who need assistance from getting it.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
I'm not missing that point at all. I simply said apply, I didn't say that'll even work. My parents are below middle class and I didn't receive any financial aid when entering college at all. It's just a good idea to apply anyway. It's free money. Worst case scenario, you waste five minutes.
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:iconragerancher:
Ragerancher Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013
Not everyone can find a job to pay for it. For example with me I don't own a car and live in a rural area. I can't get a car because I don't have a job and I don't have a job because I am limited in how far I can realistically apply for jobs (also there are only buses through my village).
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
I am completely aware of that. But if you're having that much trouble with Step 1, why take out a bunch of student loans that will screw you over later in life?
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:iconragerancher:
Ragerancher Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
Because I want to be an engineer and I need the degree to do that job and you need a masters if you ever want to become a chartered engineer. If I become chartered then the salary I can get should cover the costs of Uni + more (about £50k median or 60k mean)
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
I was speaking purely from an American standpoint, I don't know the workings of your economy or your student loans.
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:iconragerancher:
Ragerancher Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
Well I guess people think they can earn enough to pay it off. My loan is much smaller though, 25k for a 4 year course.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
If you already had a job that paid enough to afford living + enough extra for college, you wouldn't need the college to begin with as opposed to just keeping the job.

And there aren't enough scholarships and grants to go around to everyone who needs one.

And often credits from community colleges don't qualify for transfer, forcing you to retake many of the classes at the university anyway.

And trying to figure out which industry will make you money is basically a crystal ball where even if the industry is making money now it might not when you get out. Plus it leaves industries understaffed that need workers but nobody can afford to train for them in comparison to eventual pay.

...oh, but, lolz, I forget, pointing out how stuff works in the real world and real problems that need to be fixed is "making excuses" to the conservatives. And never them just giving shitty advice.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
Actually the advice I gave was beyond rational. Don't take out loans that you'd have to spend years paying back. Make sure you can support yourself, or at the very least build up a resume before graduating, apply to everything you can apply to regardless of if you think you'll get it or not, go to a community college because community college credits transfer over to in-state universities so long as you receive a degree from the community college, and the last bit of advice I don't even believe it but it is good advice nonetheless; don't take out 30,000 dollars of loans for an art degree. But then again, do what you want with your life, I don't care. Some want to spend money they'll probably never make back while some like to throw the label "conservative" at any person who disagrees with her, regardless of their political ideology.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
"Don't take out loans that you'd have to spend years paying back."

Which leads to people like me, who will never be able to get a good job because employers don't even want to look at your resume if you don't have a degree, regardless of your actual skills and/or experience.

I guess I find it kind of hilarious that I get told I'm a loser for trying to work my way up without a degree, while telling everyone else they should become losers like me by trying to work their way up without a degree. Or telling me I'm lazy for not getting an education because I know I can't pay back the loan, while turning around and saying you shouldn't get an education if you can't pay back the loan.

Could you people possibly make up your minds? Or at least be less transparent with your goal to just be assholes to me rather than actually genuinely arguing a point.

"Make sure you can support yourself, or at the very least build up a resume before graduating,"

Which, again, would defeat the point of going to college, since, again, if you already had a job that could support you, you wouldn't need college as opposed to just keeping the job.

Not only that, but typically the jobs available to college students are the type that are useless on a resume.

"apply to everything you can apply to regardless of if you think you'll get it or not,"

Which is a waste of time, since again, the employer won't even look at your resume. Why should they, when there's still so many people that need jobs that they can easily get several people who meet their requirements?

(Granted, I still do it anyway, but I've never gotten anything other than a polite letter explaining I don't meet their requirements. Hell, I've even gotten that letter when I actually did meet all their requirements, which was annoyingly WTF.)

"go to a community college because community college credits transfer over to in-state universities so long as you receive a degree from the community college,"

Nope. Not only that, but it seems there's other reasons why that doesn't lower the cost, too: [link]

"don't take out 30,000 dollars of loans for an art degree."

So, "don't get an art degree", basically.

"Some want to spend money they'll probably never make back"

Because they don't have a choice, since it's still the most realistic chance of success.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
"Community colleges are the less expensive option for the state and student"

That is a direct quote from the article. And it's true. You clearly just read the title and assumed the article mirrored the title which if you actually read it, you'd know it does not. It mostly refers to private institutions and how some students sometimes end up borrowing more in the long run. But most students do not go to private institutions, so your post is irrelevant.

The reality of the situation is very simple, so simple that it's laughable how you don't comprehend something so simple.

Community College Costs for 2 Years - 10,000
University Costs for 2 Years - 38,000

But you're right, universities charge 28,000 dollar fees all the time for people who go to community college, right?
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Still didn't actually read the article, I see. :yawn:
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
"Community colleges are the less expensive option for the state and student"

That is a direct quote from the article. And it's true. You clearly just read the title and assumed the article mirrored the title which if you actually read it, you'd know it does not. It mostly refers to private institutions and how some students sometimes end up borrowing more in the long run. But most students do not go to private institutions, so your post is irrelevant.

The reality of the situation is very simple, so simple that it's laughable how you don't comprehend something so simple.

Community College Costs for 2 Years - 10,000
University Costs for 2 Years - 38,000

But you're right, universities charge 28,000 dollar fees all the time for people who go to community college, right?
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
The first couple paragraphs are irrelevant to me personally as I'm not calling anyone a loser nor saying anything is stupid. All I'm saying is loans are dangerous and basically are only smart as a last resort if you know for an absolute fact that you can make them back.

And you're assuming when I say "support yourself" that I mean you're doing it by yourself. I just mean get out of the parents house and out "on your own". Also, you can support yourself working at Costco, does that mean you shouldn't go to college and get an actual career?

That article makes no sense at all. It does lower the costs. The books are cheaper, rooming is cheaper, tuition is significantly cheaper. Because I'm going to community college, for my major, I have to take a 3rd year at the university and I'd still be saving money.
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
"All I'm saying is loans are dangerous and basically are only smart as a last resort if you know for an absolute fact that you can make them back."

So how do you go to college if you can't afford it without loans?

"Also, you can support yourself working at Costco, does that mean you shouldn't go to college and get an actual career?"

If Costco paid you enough to live on your own + enough to afford college, and you don't mind the job, why would you bother? You already have what you'd be going to college for.

I know people--especially the conservatives--have a really hard time imagining people who don't want to be super-major-powerful managers climbing up the corporate ladder to become CEOs raking in the dough... but a lot of us just want a job that we can halfway stand, uses a decent amount of our skills, and pays the bills.

And if I need that sort of job just to be able to afford college, but need college to afford that sort of job, we're stuck in a pretty nasty Catch-22.

"That article makes no sense at all. It does lower the costs."

Except that the facts clearly show it doesn't, and clearly explain why. The only reason it "doesn't make sense" is because you can't accept that your theory doesn't match up with reality.

"The books are cheaper, rooming is cheaper, tuition is significantly cheaper."

Which shows you 100% missed the reasons why it still doesn't save you money.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
"So how do you go to college if you can't afford it without loans?"

You don't. Hence - last resort.

"If Costco paid you enough to live on your own + enough to afford college, and you don't mind the job, why would you bother? You already have what you'd be going to college for.

I know people--especially the conservatives--have a really hard time imagining people who don't want to be super-major-powerful managers climbing up the corporate ladder to become CEOs raking in the dough... but a lot of us just want a job that we can halfway stand, uses a decent amount of our skills, and pays the bills.

And if I need that sort of job just to be able to afford college, but need college to afford that sort of job, we're stuck in a pretty nasty Catch-22."

That's cool. Personally, I don't want to work at Costco my entire life. If it's good enough for anyone else, good for them.

"Except that the facts clearly show it doesn't, and clearly explain why. The only reason it "doesn't make sense" is because you can't accept that your theory doesn't match up with reality."

What facts? The article did not present any refutations to the fact that books, tuition, and room & board are all significantly cheaper, therefore you save money. Explain to me, how do you not save money by saying a lot of money?
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
"You don't. Hence - last resort."

And then you end up like me and many people I've worked with--trapped in a cycle of shitty-ass jobs that don't pay living wages and that it's almost impossible to break out of. And even if you do break out, it's very easy to get thrown back into it again.

Brilliant advice! :dummy:

"That's cool. Personally, I don't want to work at Costco my entire life. If it's good enough for anyone else, good for them."

...you kind of totally dodged my question. How do you fix that Catch-22 there, where according to folks like you, you need a living wage job+extra to go to college... yet you need college to get a living wage job+extra? (Actually... forget the extra, you need college just for a living wage job, period.)

"Explain to me, how do you not save money by saying a lot of money?"

Clearly explained in the article, hon. The fact that you're even asking this is proof you didn't actually read it. :dummy:
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(2 Replies)
:iconhustlerdu:
hustlerdu Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013
i don't think it's acceptable that the government giving more money to students is off the table when every year they raise the defense budget and that's the real reason we're in this crazy debt, because we spend more than every other country combined on defense, i will not accept the government telling me that a trillion dollars is affordable for these wars but somehow for my life it is not, for my healthcare it is not, for my education it is not, it's unacceptable, this is all because our governance is tied with the industry of war, we invent wars just to fight them, just to keep the machine growing. the defense budget is the real aspect of our governance's spending that we need to address, if we do that there's plenty of money for poor people to get fair access to essential things like healthcare and education, but the ruling class of this country doesn't want that, they don't want a fair shake for you and me, they want to rule and they want us weak and stupid, a healthy and intelligent population is quintessential to a functioning democracy, therefore it is in the interest of a democratic society to educate the population, but they don't want democracy, because with real democracy they don't get to call the shots, fuck that i don't accept it, students should get money from the government, or school needs to cost less, one of those two things has to happen or we will lose social mobility and this will be like a caste system. i don't think it's happening that way by chance either, i think it's happening by design because the motherfuckers running this show don't want us empowered and skilled because that enables democracy, which would inhibit their power.
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:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
Our defense budget is 700 billion.
We spend 3.65 Trillion and bring in 2.40 Trillion in revenue. If you would completely remove the defense department from the budget you will still be spending 2.95 Trillion, and bringing in 2.40 trillion in revenue.
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:iconhustlerdu:
hustlerdu Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
what's your point though? 700 billion is still way too high. and the reason it's that high is not because it needs to be, it's because of industry running the government and making us waste money. if you cut that budget in half, you'd save a trillion dollars every 3 years, and you'd still be spending twice as much as china.

how much money does the government spend on student financial aid? how much money is it going to save to cut financial aid? probably not as much. so why are we discussing cutting education before cutting the military? cutting the military would save way more money and just makes more sense.

i agree there's other things the government wastes money on if that's like the point your trying to make, but that doesn't like contradict anything i'm saying. and student financial aid isn't on like the short list of dubious things the government wastes money on, so i just don't understand why people say that's where we should cut spending when there are other things that are obviously costing us much more and aren't going towards anything that makes sense the way education does.
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:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013
It doesn't matter how much you spend as compared to other nations. European military might is worthless and meaningless, and is dependent on us. China's military isn't nearly as high tech as ours, all of that costs money. I'm not here comparing OUR spending to some other nations, I am merely saying that in terms of our budget, it's 19%. Halving the military budget isn't going to fix the deficit. Even removing the entire military budget wouldn't do it.

When it comes to the role of government, I think having the capacity to protect your people, i.e the military, takes more precedence than having the capacity to educate your people, since I think education is not something the state should provide anyway. But that's my opinion. The way our system works education is paid for mostly by the states themselves, not the federal government, and if you take a state like California, education consists more than half our budget.

Actually, I don't think that the things we think government wastes money on is all that much. Discretionary spending isn't nearly as huge as how much we spend on welfare. That's where I think is the biggest problem.
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:iconhustlerdu:
hustlerdu Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013
it's not the entire problem but it is part of it. it doesnt matter who you really compare it to 700 billion is just way too high. and especially because the reason it is that way is not necessity, it's because of profit incentives influencing policy.

19% seems pretty high to me. certainly is much more than we spend on education, would probably make sense to cut down on that first. having capacity to protect your people is important, but it's also important to not let industry run the governance like it does with our military. and besides we're well beyond the capacity to protect our people and kids are struggling to pay for school, so id say cut the military before education.

if you think spending on defense is more important than education than we just have a difference of opinion im not really going to bother debating that with you

i agree we spend too much on welfare as well
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:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
Thats because for the most part education is paid for by the states themselves. And in some states like mine, California, education is about 60% of our budget.
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:iconhustlerdu:
hustlerdu Featured By Owner Jan 16, 2013
i understand all that, but it's just not really what i'm talking about, i'm only really talking about federal spending here. that's not really relevant to what i'm saying about defense spending being out of control because of war profiteers writing our foreign policy and how getting that under control would be much more beneficial and overall significant than any kind of cut in financial aid. i'm just in general dissatisfied that the narrative is here instead of there.
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:iconhyenaworks:
Hyenaworks Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Don't get me started on my student loan debt. If I had been less ignorant about that crap, I'd have made much better choices. Such is life.

The worst part about it though is that with that debt, I have to command a higher pay just so I can live on my own. It's like being saddled with an extra car payment.
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
But not having a pretty car to drive around. :( :(
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:iconhyenaworks:
Hyenaworks Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Exactly. And I already have a car payment. XD lol
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
If it makes you feel better the only job I could get straight out of college wasn't even making me 20k a year, so I couldn't even afford a car payment. :( I b jelly. lol <3
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:iconhyenaworks:
Hyenaworks Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I fell into tech support at awful hours. lol So the benefits were pretty nice. The hours sucked. But I got laid off so don't have to worry about that anymore. XD
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:( That sucks! :(
How were the customers? Gosh customers are a pain in the ass. I miss retail but then I remember those customers... lol I know support is a little different. Still dealing with the public though. lol :
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:iconhyenaworks:
Hyenaworks Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
They weren't that bad. They were in house employees, so many of them I knew by name on the production side since they were the ones that called in the problems. Some were hopelessly difficult to deal with for a number of reasons. Usually it was a language barrier.
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:iconvisionoftheworld:
VISIONOFTHEWORLD Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013
I stopped reading at "Big government!" because honestly, if all you've got is this tea bagger nonsense to spout about, then I couldnt see what the point is. And then I see you end it with how you've been swindled. So if your entire outlook is "we're all screwed" then what the fuck is the point of this drivel dude?
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:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013
Too bad I long ago dismissed most if not all your opinions as utterly worthless.

"So if your entire outlook is "we're all screwed" then what the fuck is the point of this drivel dude?" I'm not going to answer you. Any legit reason I would have you'd dismiss as some right wing demagoguery. So whatever.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013
There is block user feature for trolls like him. [link]
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:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013
I don't block users.
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
<3 Lord I do. <3 That is love right there. lol
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:iconpoopgoblyn:
Poopgoblyn Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2013
I think it's silly to do so but i understand why people want to.
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I hate putting my personal shit out there because in the end it was all my fault. I never did my research....

I went to one of those Art institutes and if anyone is even considering them PLEASE DON'T DO IT. Any of them! They are for profit schools....argh.

Anyways I went there and got my associates of science in web design. I am proud of the fact I finished school and I have a degree, but what burns me more than anything were all those promises and guarantees the school made. This is where my faulty research abilities came into play.

The lady told me:

"Oh you will be making sixty grand a year and have a good job and actually in the area you live in right now. This is all with an entry level position."

After I graduated I wasn't able to find a graphic/web design job for a year and the one I did find I wasn't even making twenty grand a year. I was struggling to pay back all the loans I have accumulated, but I was lucky because my boyfriend pays for everything else while I just had to focus on student loans. However, I never had any spending money, I couldn't afford to buy a new car or house or any of that good old American Dream stuff that you are normally able to afford when you find a nice career.

The school I went to is now on probation. They are on probation because the graduates of their schools can not find work. It is maddening. I still owe around 21k, but I honestly think I was the lucky ones because I only got an Associates degree. Had I have gotten a BA I would probably be eating my own crap right now. lol

I am still brain washed though. I am going back to school to hopefully get a legit degree that will help me land a DECENT job. I get I won't graduate making millions, but I sort of expect to graduate and be able to get a job right away. Right now I have nothing other than my current degree and what little experience I do have. I have worked MANY retail jobs and all of those were just dead end bullshit jobs. Where I live you almost need a degree to be able to land any of those good jobs, or work with that company for twenty plus years....... That sucks though.

So what are you suggesting everyone just work their way up instead of going to school?
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:iconblack-allison:
Black-Allison Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013
AI's from what I heard are fucking scams. I can get a LEGIT degree in Canada for how much those schools charge in a year.
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah it is mega sad. :( if you want some good feels go to rip off report dot com and check out the files they have against all the art institute schools.

AI
IADT
and the rest. lol I was a sucker. :(
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
The hard part about graphic/web design is that it's freelance work or you work for a mill that sources you out, since most companies don't hire their own dedicated designers.

So it's like, you can get $60K while living in the area you live in... if you successfully freelance market the crap out of yourself to get a ton of contracts. They forgot to mention that little part.
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Of course they did. I was this stupid, little naive, 18 year old that thought all sorts of things would blossom from that school, but nothing really happened. I hate acting like this victim because in the end it was my fault. I bought into their marketing. That is why I tell as many as I can to do their research before going to a for profit school. They are way too freaking expensive anyways. lol

Freelancing is a nightmare. I have been working on a logo for a month now. It was done at the beginning of the month but my client is so fucking lazy. lol So again I am super lucky I have my boyfriend or I would be in a box because this one logo is 350 dollars BUT 350 a month is insane to live off of. lol
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Yeah. I worked once in the past for a tiny family-run graphic design shop (albeit as a secretary, not an artist).

The hard part is first trying to explain that you charge $350 for a single logo because you may have to spend a long while on it (while the client then goes to the logo mills that can do it for $100 because they sweatshop out their designers). Then second, actually getting the client to pay you.
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:iconladyluck89:
LadyLuck89 Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah most people don't understand art. They think it is something that just falls from your ass. They don't take into consideration the time, energy, work, and true thought that goes into each and every design be it logo or simple business card. I had one client who I fucking adored, he understood everything because he was an artist himself. I told him three hundred straight up and he paid it. No questions. He loved my designs and even had actual input for me. Why can't they all be like him? lol. But most aren't and that is why I can't freelance because I am not the type of person that can stand people who don't know what they want. lol
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:iconjeysie:
Jeysie Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
The only people who have it worse than artists are writers in that regard. XP

I've spent enough time trying to art (and failing) to realize how much hard work it is to do well. And logos and business cards are even tricker because in addition to actual artistic skill you have to factor in all the psychology behind image and composition.

(Composition is like the hardest thing to do right. Even otherwise skilled artists can suck at it, which is why so many uninspired character pinups (of the non-sexual type, I mean) abound.)

I miss that job. I even did some of the simple stuff like designing simple business cards and document layouts and applying vinyl for them and picked up some skills. Being able to design good forms and document layouts comes in surprisingly handy as a office assistant even in non-design offices.

That's why I just can't see an art degree as useless. Even in non-art context it's handy for things like marketing, presentations, standardizing forms, and so on.
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