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January 4, 2013
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On gun control

:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
:iconwplz:hen somebody shoots somebody up in the US, rational people point out that it's due to a number of problems with the prison system and mental health system. Unfortunately, neither of those make good political ammo, so they tend to get left unattended while people say we should become more like those civilized gun-free countries. But will getting rid of guns work?

Well, the US isn't alone in dealing with mass murders. n 1987, Michael Ryan went on a shooting spree in his small town of Hungerford, England, killing 16 people (including his mother) and wounding another 14 before shooting himself. Since the public was unarmed—as were the police—Ryan wandered the streets for eight hours with two semiautomatic rifles and a handgun before anyone with a firearm was able to come to the rescue.

After that unfortunate incident and another one not long after, the British government banned handguns (in addition to a ban on semi-auto rifles and heavy regulations on shotguns). Owners of pistols were required to turn them in. The penalty for illegal possession of a pistol is up to 10 years in prison. It didn't work.

ithin a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time.
In contrast, law-abiding citizens who have come into the possession of a firearm, even accidentally, have been harshly treated. In 2009 a former soldier, Paul Clarke, found a bag in his garden containing a shotgun. He brought it to the police station and was immediately handcuffed and charged with possession of the gun. At his trial the judge noted: "In law there is no dispute that Mr. Clarke has no defence to this charge. The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant." Mr. Clarke was sentenced to five years in prison. A public outcry eventually won his release.




Six weeks after the Dunblane massacre in 1996, Martin Bryant, an Australian with a lifelong history of violence, attacked tourists at a Port Arthur prison site in Tasmania with two semiautomatic rifles. He killed 35 people and wounded 21 others.

The Australian government responded by passing the National Firearms Agreement. banning all semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic and pump-action shotguns and imposing a more restrictive licensing system on other firearms. The government also launched a forced buyback scheme to remove thousands of firearms from private hands. Between Oct. 1, 1996, and Sept. 30, 1997, the government purchased and destroyed more than 631,000 of the banned guns at a cost of $500 million.

To what end? While there has been much controversy over the result of the law and buyback, Peter Reuter and Jenny Mouzos, in a 2003 study published by the Brookings Institution, found homicides "continued a modest decline" since 1997. They concluded that the impact of the National Firearms Agreement was "relatively small," with the daily rate of firearms homicides declining 3.2%.

According to their study, the use of handguns rather than long guns (rifles and shotguns) went up sharply, but only one out of 117 gun homicides in the two years following the 1996 National Firearms Agreement used a registered gun. Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up. They reported "a modest reduction in the severity" of massacres (four or more indiscriminate homicides) in the five years since the government weapons buyback. These involved knives, gas and arson rather than firearms.

In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s, but an increase of over 40% in assaults and 20% in sexual assaults.




What to conclude? Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems.

:iconkillitwithfireplz:
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Devious Comments

:icondregs-of-humanity:
dregs-of-humanity Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013
Americans seem to have some idea in their head that we went from a US style system of almost unrestricted gun access and high ownership to an almost gun free society where only criminals have guns. The reality is its fairly easy to get a gun, theres at least 4 shops in my town selling guns and probably more that I'm not aware of. There is more legal guns in Australia right now than at any point in history, the majority of people who had guns bought back went out and bought guns with the money. As well there is lots of new gun owners like myself.

Guns had been regulated and restricted for decades before the 96 laws came in, handguns have been restricted since the 1920s. Fully automatic guns were banned in every state but Tasmania since the 1930s. The 1996 laws weren't about lowering homicide rates which have always been low here, they were a reaction to the efficiency with which Martin Bryant killed 12 people in 15 seconds at the broad arrow cafe (and killed a total of 35 people) and trying to avoid another incident like that, it works about as well as a tiger-repellant rock, we haven't had another incident like Port Arthur since.

I'm not a big supporter of the gun laws myself because rifles are rarely involved in crime as you pointed out, it was a paranoid reaction to an extremely rare occurence. I do support national registries and licensing and restrictions on urban people owning guns for 'self defense' though and I do feel quite safe living in a country thats always had gun restrictions, low levels of gun ownership and a low homicide rate.
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:iconvisionoftheworld:
VISIONOFTHEWORLD Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
At first, I wasn't going to get involved in this because I figured I was too busy to try and have a statistics war... and then it occurred to me- why this argument, and all the rest of the gun freak arguments are complete failures:

You have not really made any case against gun control. Not even started to- as much as I'm sure you think you've made an awesome slam dunk :headbang:. Like all the rest of their hacks, you copied some stats out of another article on some rightwing blog or 'news' site, and think they this copy-paste of "See look- bad things still happen when there are no guns! Seeeeeee!" and that is frankly the argument of a child. I can say this about anything- like- the speed limit on the highway of 65 is obviously not working because people still get killed in speed related accidents. I can then start a stat-war by gathering all the numbers given to me by people opposed to speed limits, show that we have more highway deaths in America than another country with roads- say Romania- and that shows how regulation is EEEEvul. Essentially, there is nothing for the person who disagrees to possibly disprove.
Even if I go to wikipedia- that favorite of internet arguers- [link] and look at their chart of gun-related deaths- it is clearly made by someone who favors guns. How can I spot this? It doesn't list the total number of people killed by being shot at all, does it? Nope. It uses a 'per capita' figure, so that the smallest country with a crime problem will naturally look the worst- so there's tiny El Salvador at the top. Notice how the numbers for the USA- which obviously we don't bother counting gun deaths at all, ever- is from the year 2002! Gee, that's current data, eh? They found numbers for EL FUCKING SALVADOR that were a year old, but the latest thing they could find for USA is 10 year old numbers becoming 11 years old. Gee, wonder why.

My point isn't to have a stats battle. It's to tell you that listing numbers that show 'this is worse than that' is a crock of shit.
26 people were massacred in a school. Do you not care about the lives of children? Before that, the mall santa in Portland Oregon had to dive for cover as two more people were killed. Before that, in Colorado a movie theater was shot to hell. Even in El Salvador this kind of shit isnt happening- it's all gang crime. Then they showed this idiotic simulation on CNN or fox or something about what an armed teacher should do in a shooting situation in a classroom. Do you know what age and gender most elementary school teachers are? So that's the solution given by you freaks- expect a 24year old girl to be at-the-ready at all times every day of the year anticipating the moment of attack, and then get into a gun battle with a heavily armed, fatigue and armor-wearing maniac with a machine gun.

I honestly thought you people were insane before. Now I'm convinced you are utterly lost. Without morals, completely shameless.
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:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
So:
*The statistics are false, as they take into account that countries with high populations have more crimes because they have more people.
*Statistics in general are wrong when they disagree with you, as you are omnipresent.
*The statistics are wrong because data for the US is more dated than El Salvadore's, despite the fact that the sources for both countries are from the same year (2009).
*Emotional outburst. I could shoot back by pointing out that last year 70 teens were killed and 65 wounded in a shooting in gun-controlling Norway, or how the worst school massacre in the US was not with guns, but I doubt that you really care.

:iconovisionoftheworldplz:
You're retarded.

But anyways, welcome back! ~TBSchemer took over your spot as Forum Idiot, but I see that you're well on your way to reclaiming the title.
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:iconbob401:
bob401 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
The fact of the matter is that getting rid of guns and making them more strict will do nothing much to help lower the crime rates. You see, in world with guns the criminal will attack without assurance that his victim will have a gun and if he ever finds one with a gun, he may either a - making better plans in the future or b - decide to quit for fear of him/herself getting shot. Our founding fathers made guns legal for one reason and that is to give people the ability to rise up against their government in case it were ever to become far too corrupt, but guns and weapons of death evolve all the time, and someday killing someone will become far too easy; so in my opinion we need to restrict more powerful weapons (i.e. a barrett 50 cal) while leaving the weaker ones in the hands of our people.
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:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
I don't think that a .50 is a very efficient weapon to murder somebody with.
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:iconbob401:
bob401 Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
You're probably right, but I meant a weapon with a long range.
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:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
So, rifles in general? What if I want to hunt?
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:iconbob401:
bob401 Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I just meant the range, not all rifles, I mean a gun with a huge distance, a 50 cal has about a 1,800 m range just over a mile and I don't think you need that much to shoot game.
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:icontheredsnifit:
TheRedSnifit Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013
You aren't thinking practically. Somebody with the funds to buy a .50 and the skill to hit you from a mile way probably isn't going to be stopped by gun laws.
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:iconbob401:
bob401 Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes, but if the laws aren't there then it becomes far too convenient and criminals will use it to their advantage. It's true what you said about someone with the ability to afford it, but how often does a crack-shot have that much money, it's probably a good amount, but those two variables do not always come together. People do not shoot people because they're good at it, the do based on the emotion and the memory of a person. A man could shoot the commander-and-chief and get caught for it, only to be interrogated to reveal that the president slept with his wife and threatened blackmail if he were to go public. A man kills someone in the middle of the night with a .50 cal, (now in this universe there are no gun restrictions on this weapon) they check the wound and find it to be a .50 cal, it will be impossible to find him due to no gun restrictions on that weapon. Though he bought it from a store there, he did not have to fill out forms, and destroyed the weapon leaving no evidence, could have caught him if those forms were filled.
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