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January 2, 2013
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Obama's fiscal cliff deal

:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
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Devious Comments

:iconhtimsnayr:
HtimsNayr Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
I like how this promotes discussion. I also like how you argued your position clearly and in detail, offered reliable sources, and were completely unbiased in your assessment of Obama's policies.

And how you didn't just link to a random picture that serves no purpose besides satisfying your need to show off "silly" pictures of politicians you disagree with.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Thanks!
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:iconhtimsnayr:
HtimsNayr Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
You are truly a master debater.
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
If you hit him with source-backed facts, he'll block you. o-o!
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:icontortellinipen:
TortelliniPen Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013
Looks like he finally blocked me. Guess I win, then. It was fun while it lasted...
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:iconmeanus:
meanus Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013
yeah, like no liberal has ever blocked anyone...ha!
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I haven't blocked anyone (except for somebody who kept trolling my profile instead of my posts). And holy fuck. It's meanus! *huggles* Where ya been man?
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:iconhtimsnayr:
HtimsNayr Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
See? Master. How he so skillfully uses the block option to sidestep reality and convince himself that he has won.
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:iconapricots-from-nara:
Apricots-from-Nara Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student General Artist
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:iconthegman0:
theGman0 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist
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:iconragerancher:
Ragerancher Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
:iconnope1plz:
:iconnope2plz:
:iconnope2plz:
:iconnope2plz:
:iconnope2plz:
:iconnope2plz:
:iconnope3plz:
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:iconthegman0:
theGman0 Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Hobbyist
LOL
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:icondarkzero779:
darkzero779 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
something from Face book by Dr.Ron Paul...the one who was knocked away on 12 election unfairly thanks to us
Statement on the Motion to Concur in the Senate Amendments to H.R. 8

We Are Already Over the Fiscal Cliff

2 January 2013

Despite claims that the Administration and Congress saved America from the fiscal cliff with an early morning vote today, the fact is that government spending has already pushed Americans over the cliff. Only serious reductions in federal spending will stop the cliff dive from ending in a crash landing, yet the events of this past month show that most elected officials remain committed to expanding the welfare-warfare state.

While there was much hand-wringing over the “draconian” cuts that would be imposed by sequestration, in fact sequestration does not cut spending at all. Under the sequestration plan, government spending will increase by 1.6 trillion over the next eight years. Congress calls this a cut because without sequestration spending will increase by 1.7 trillion over the same time frame. Either way it is an increase in spending.

Yet even these minuscule cuts in the “projected rate of spending” were too much for Washington politicians to bear. The last minute “deal” was the worst of both worlds: higher taxes on nearly all Americans now and a promise to revisit these modest reductions in spending growth two months down the road. We were here before, when in 2011 Republicans demanded these automatic modest decreases in government growth down the road in exchange for a massive increase in the debt ceiling. As the time drew closer, both parties clamored to avoid even these modest moves.

Make no mistake: the spending addiction is a bipartisan problem. It is generally believed that one party refuses to accept any reductions in military spending while the other party refuses to accept any serious reductions in domestic welfare programs. In fact, both parties support increases in both military and domestic welfare spending. The two parties may disagree on some details of what kind of military or domestic welfare spending they favor, but they do agree that they both need to increase. This is what is called “bipartisanship” in Washington.

While the media played up the drama of the down-to-the-wire negotiations, there was never any real chance that a deal would not be worked out. It was just drama. That is how Washington operates. As it happened, a small handful of Congressional and Administration leaders gathered in the dark of the night behind closed doors to hammer out a deal that would be shoved down the throats of Members whose constituents had been told repeatedly that the world would end if this miniscule decrease in the rate of government spending was allowed to go through.

While many on both sides express satisfaction that this deal only increases taxes on the “rich,” most Americans will see more of their paycheck going to Washington because of the deal. The Tax Policy Center has estimated that 77 percent of Americans would see higher taxes because of the elimination of the payroll tax cut.

The arguments against the automatic “cuts” in military spending were particularly dishonest. Hawks on both sides warned of doom and gloom if, as the plan called for, the defense budget would have returned to 2007 levels of spending! Does anybody really believe that our defense spending was woefully inadequate just five years ago? And since 2007 we have been told that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are winding down. According to the Congressional Budget Office, over the next eight years military spending would increase 20 percent without the sequester and would increase 18 percent with the sequester. And this is what is called a dangerous reduction in defense spending?

Ironically, some of the members who are most vocal against tax increases and in favor of cuts to domestic spending are the biggest opponents of cutting a penny from the Pentagon budget. Over and over we were told of the hundreds of thousands of jobs that would be lost should military spending be returned to 2007 levels. Is it really healthy to think of our defense budget as a jobs program? Many of these allegedly free-market members sound more Keynesian than Paul Krugman when they praise the economic “stimulus” created by militarism.

As Chris Preble of the Cato Institute wrote recently, “It’s easy to focus exclusively on the companies and individuals hurt by the cuts and forget that the taxed wealth that funded them is being employed elsewhere.”

While Congress ultimately bears responsibility for deficit spending, we must never forget that the Federal Reserve is the chief enabler of deficit spending. Without a central bank eager to monetize the debt, Congress would be unable to fund the welfare-warfare state without imposing unacceptable levels of taxation on the American people. Of course, the Federal Reserve’s policies do impose an “inflation” tax on the American people; however, since this tax is hidden Congress does not fear the same public backlash it would experience if it directly raised income taxes.

I have little hope that a majority of Congress and the President will change their ways and support real spending reductions unless forced to by an economic crisis or by a change in people’s attitudes toward government. Fortunately, increasing numbers of Americans are awakening to the dangers posed by the growth of the welfare-warfare state. Hopefully this movement will continue to grow and force the politicians to reverse course before government spending, taxing, and inflation destroys our economy entirely.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
That is a good appraisal of what is happening. I would also add in Republicans have also sold us down the river to their lobbyist owners. Obama was also in on it. Both sides are to blame.

____________
[link]

The "fiscal cliff" legislation passed this week included $76 billion in special-interest tax credits for the likes of General Electric, Hollywood and even Captain Morgan.

-------------

The picking of winners and losers is one of the worst aspects of fascist America. Most peasants will be seeing a tax increase but some billion dollar corporations will be getting huge windfalls.
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:icondarkzero779:
darkzero779 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
sometimes it make me just hate my life....as a 21 yrd in new gen with crisis...
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Don't hate your life that is not healthy. Learn to hate your government for they are the oppressive enemies they are doing this to us. Country is being looted by kleptomaniacs. Pray they are brought to justice.
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:icondarkzero779:
darkzero779 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
i hate them indeed...in fact since the time i never trusted them....
also i really hope we pull through...if things dont get better im having to leave my house...
with my grandparents grandma who is type 2 diabetic...weak imune system adn heart and keeps medicine to move on...a grandpa who world everyday...and puts up with out shnanigans,a strong american both near to their 60s i an few years and 10 yrd brother whom dong get along with but do at time...but argue and is a smart kid who is learning and jsut got to 5th grade this semester..
we will be living in a mountians filled with the crazy stuff at stevenson alabama worth 3 arces..
and start building a log cabin using their ~$401k money which i wish for tem to keep for their retirement .....

i cant bare to think...my kid brother is a poicky eater...and wont eat anything normal people eats...he might actually starve himself ....mammy with her weak imune system and diabeties..with no medidcine she might die on one fustration...plus shes bipolar abit...ii got some of it alittle in me not to high like usual people though..


sigh....it just makes me wonder what am i doing livng this life why?
i just hope a light of hope od there...also the lawsuit journal i just added a a share on face book


ps sory for all the mis typing...jsut need to get in bed
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:iconragerancher:
Ragerancher Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Whether troll or genuine, you fail at both.
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:icontronmanz:
TronmanZ Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Another reasons why Neo-Cons deserved to be deported.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Lol. I'm not a Neo-Con
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:icondruid69:
druid69 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
This place has really gone to hell if they let you put in a link rather than a talking point. :thumbsdown: This needs to be locked: :lock:
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I have to bring it up again...just for consistency's sake. My John Kerry thread = :lock: This garbage = :thumbsup:
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:icondruid69:
druid69 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Consistency my ass. This is the first time you're bringing it up to me, and, I don't give two shakes of a lamb's tail. The last time I was spending much time in here the mods would lock threads with this type of OP. Thats my only point, and, you certainly haven't related to it. Piggyback on someone else's comment. Are you blocked in this thread somehow?
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Manchild reaction. I brought it up in another thread. Not to you, but brought up nonetheless. That's consistency. That being said, mods have dropped the ball as far as locking pointless threads anymore. I'm not piggybacking ffs.
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:icondruid69:
druid69 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Consistency would be if you brought it up to everyone with over 10,000 forum posts that hasn't posted in politics in about 1 year, but, who just posted today complaining about loose forum standards.

Get it straight newb.
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
That's cute. You're defining consistency for me. Reposting that a perfectly legitimate thread was locked in illegitimate threads over a period of time is consistency. I don't know what point you're trying to argue dude. If you'd been around for more than one day without you not being in politics from your year long absence (or more precisely, when I had posted the John Kerry thread), you'd probably see this. Once again, I don't know what point you're trying to make.
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:icondruid69:
druid69 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Oh, me, I was just looking for a "manchild" reaction. Your comment to me was rather obtuse, and, seemed to be assuming that I should know about you and your John Kerry thread. Making assumptions and then reacting badly to a lack of familiarity to your assumed infamy isn't going to win you any allies, not that you probably want any in any event.
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I don't want allies if they react like that to simple statements and remarks which are non inflammatory.
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(1 Reply)
:iconthegman0:
theGman0 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist
LOL His reaction to your comment.
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
This is serious business!
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:icondruid69:
druid69 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
So, your JK thread was :lock:ed because it was a second thread with JK mentioned, wasn't it?
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
No. It was breaking news at the time. I was the first person with the thread.
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(1 Reply)
:icontortellinipen:
TortelliniPen Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
You aren't a very fun troll. This: [link] is a much better look for what you're looking for. And the caption is really vanilla: "I've got you now America"? It's like something you'd find in one of those Pixar ripoffs that a confused grandmother will buy as a last minute Christmas present at the gas station.

Please tell me: why is Obama bad for America? Why are you scared that he got elected again? It's all well and good to disagree, but if you expect serious discussion (which I somehow doubt), then you have to give your opinion some substance.
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Speaking of fun troll, anybody seen meanus lately?
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:icontortellinipen:
TortelliniPen Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Since I'm on Christmas break at home and my house doesn't have internet, I haven't been around. I have noticed the lack of meanus threads today, though, which is oddly chilling. All I see is weird new names.
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
This place just doesn't feel the same without meanus...yet more peaceful.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
I'm not going to argue with you people, you're all just a waste of time. All I can say to those who support Obama is look at the REAL facts. Taxes have increased, the unemployment rate is terrible, Americas debt is already ridiculous and Obama still wants to spend more.
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:icontortellinipen:
TortelliniPen Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
But who caused it? The President himself has little actual control over the economy itself; otherwise he's be more of a king. The events that led to the economic meltdown of 2008 were set in motion during Bush's term, and the recession had already hit when Obama took office. If McCain had won, we'd probably be in a similar situation.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
I knew it, there it is. "Blame Bush" Omg why can't you people accept the fact that Obama is a terrible president? If Obama's so great, why hasn't he improved America's economy?
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
If Obama's so great, why hasn't he improved America's economy?

He has. Unemployment is 7.8%, the DOW is 13,000 points, and the GDP is growing. That's an improved economy.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Do you think an unemployment rate of 7.8% is good? The DOWis not at 13,000 and the GDP is not growing, it hasn't changed. Where did you get these "facts" from?
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
DJIA
[link]

13,329.16
+225.02 (1.72%)


GDP Growth rate
[link]

2009 - 13.8636 trillion.
2011 - 15.094 trillion

Unemployment
[link]

Oct 09 - 10%
Nov 12 - 7.7%


Next time use Google big guy.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
I can tell you that the GDP growth rate you provided is incorrect, as well is the unemployment info. You can't believe everything that's on the internet you have to use common knowledge and do your own research to know the true facts.
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(1 Reply)
:icontortellinipen:
TortelliniPen Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
I never said that it was Bush's fault, just that it started during Bush's term. Although I don't think that Bush was a very good president for various reasons, I doubt that he decided to go out and accidentally the world's largest economy. As I said, presidents don't have a ton of actual power over the economy; if you want someone to blame, go blame Congress. They have the power to legislate laws, and the Republican's economic brinksmanship caused that whole debt ceiling fiasco a couple of years ago and nearly pushed us over the fiscal cliff. They've also used the filibuster a record number of times, and initially boldly claimed that they were aiming to make Obama a "one-term president" in lieu of actually putting on their big boy breeches and compromising on various issues. Meanwhile, several key Republicans made frankly outrageous claims about rape and other things and tried to turn the election year arguments into moral ones; the only problem was that America's morals are becoming more liberal every year and the two candidates I had in mind (Akin and Mourdoch) were defeated soundly and deservedly.

And the economy is improving, albeit more slowly than most would like. We were in a recession but we are not in a recession anymore. Barring any unexpected catastrophes, things are probably going to be back to normal in a couple of years. If you want to blame something for Obama getting re-elected, blame the Republicans for running such a lackluster candidate in such a gaffe-filled campaign. Romney's modus operandi was basically the same as yours: offer no real solutions in favor of just pointing the finger at the other guy.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
The economy is improving? How is that? We are still in a recession. No, things won't be back to normal in a couple of years. The republicans did not run a "lackluster, gaffe-filled campaign", Obama's campaigning was full of lies. Romney actually expressed his ideas on how to improve the economy. Most people in America don't even pay attention to politics anymore, it's all just a popularity contest now. That's the only reason Obama was re-elected, because everyone thinks it's "cool" to have a president of another race other than white and they don't care about what happens to America.
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:icontortellinipen:
TortelliniPen Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
"The economy is improving? How is that? We are still in a recession. "
Evidence pls

"The republicans did not run a "lackluster, gaffe-filled campaign", Obama's campaigning was full of lies."
Ahem... does the phrase "legitimate rape" ring a bell? How about "47 percent"? Obama was certainly not entirely truthful in his campaign (I don't think any politician has been, ever), but Romney's campaign was astounding in it's outright defiance of the truth. Didn't a Romney pollster even say "we aren't going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers?" Just a week or so before the election, the Romney campaign outright lied their asses off when they said that Chrysler was moving Jeep production to Chinese factories, which was so bad a lie that the CEO of Chrysler came out and rebuked him. Politifact named it their "Lie of the Year." Whatever you think of it, it was a huge mistake as it lead to a hornet's nest of negative press in a time where the campaign was close and Romney's momentum had evaporated.

"That's the only reason Obama was re-elected, because everyone thinks it's "cool" to have a president of another race other than white and they don't care about what happens to America."
Evidence plz. Maybe that's what shows the problem with you and your brand; you'd rather just say "oh, it's just because he's black" or "he won because he promised free stuff" than actually looking at the cold hard fact that Obama legitimately beat your party for a second time, and then looking to see what you can do to improve your own party so that you don't lose in 2016 when Hillary's running. Introspection is difficult and painful, but if we're all just content to blame other people for our failures then we won't make any progress. I didn't vote for Obama because he's black; that's stupid. I voted for Obama because I liked his ideas for America better than I liked Romney's (which was admittedly not saying much), and I'm proud that the candidate that I liked was elected.
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
OMG. Again, that's all Obama does, he makes promises he can't keep. Look around,look up videos if you have to, hell, even ask complete strangers on the street why they voted for Obama. It's because they think he's a "cool guy". Obama did not legitimately beat Romney. You really think Hillary will even come close to becoming president in 2016? Not even. Hopefully America will wake up and Obama will be impeached before he causes more damage to America's economy.
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(1 Reply)
:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
We are still in a recession.
Your definition of recession differs from real people's definition of recession. Do you even know how it's defined?
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:iconrbman13:
RBMAN13 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
How is my definition of recession different?

Recession- Increase of 1.5% unemployment within a year. Has the unemployment rate gone down more than 1.5% in the last year? No.
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(1 Reply)
:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
He doesn't. It's why :lock:
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