Sensible solution to guns and schools
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American gun culture is fucking ridiculous. I've never SEEN a gun in person.
Friendly fire isn't so friendly.
Friendly fire isn't so friendly.
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I know plenty about guns without having seen them. We own several. We simply don't keep them in the house. Maybe you should just as equally consider looking on the other side, because America is a huge joke with the amount of guns and gun violence running rampant down there.
are these teachers going to better trained than the guards at fort hoot and the soldiers who were killed there? they had a guns i think..
edit...Fort hood. (need coffee)
Do you really want to put guns into the hands of teachers who can barely control their students? That's creating a situation where a kid can be shot for no reason.
I don't really have a problem with weapons. I have a problem with weapons in the hands of people who shouldn't have them, because they (the person) is dangerous. But I'm pretty sure most people feel that way.
The only real issue I have with guns at ALL is 'swift immediate justice' when it isn't needed. That is, shooting someone you THINK is a threat who actually isn't. People don't always act rationally. Yeah, it's one thing to shoot the guy with gun who is killing kids at your school, totally a different story to shoot some kid walking down the street because you 'felt threatened'.
That's the whole reason we have the justice system, to avoid killing or punishing (more) innocent people.
But I'm sure when you look at it as a total, the number of people who are wrongly shot and KILLED is probably pretty low.
Paranoid people don't need guns. They need....I dunno. Phasers that never go above 'stun'. Yeah.
I'm down with having an armed security guard at a school. I mean, hell, there's always an officer hanging out at my daughters elementary school. And most of the high schools around here have either armed security or police that are paid to be there.
I don't think teachers need loaded weapons in their desk, but I'm fine with SOMEONE armed. I'm fine with teachers keeping non-lethal weapons or SOME of them having working firearms.
I don't think all of them should have firearms, but really that's more of a self control and control of the class thing, I know some kids that would make me want to shoot them in the face sometimes.
At my high school, half the kids had hunting rifles in their trucks all the time. I didn't worry about them OR the safety of the school (though of course someone would have had to sneak out into the parking lot to get them if there was an emergency).
The only real issue I have with guns at ALL is 'swift immediate justice' when it isn't needed. That is, shooting someone you THINK is a threat who actually isn't. People don't always act rationally. Yeah, it's one thing to shoot the guy with gun who is killing kids at your school, totally a different story to shoot some kid walking down the street because you 'felt threatened'.
That's the whole reason we have the justice system, to avoid killing or punishing (more) innocent people.
But I'm sure when you look at it as a total, the number of people who are wrongly shot and KILLED is probably pretty low.
Paranoid people don't need guns. They need....I dunno. Phasers that never go above 'stun'. Yeah.
I'm down with having an armed security guard at a school. I mean, hell, there's always an officer hanging out at my daughters elementary school. And most of the high schools around here have either armed security or police that are paid to be there.
I don't think teachers need loaded weapons in their desk, but I'm fine with SOMEONE armed. I'm fine with teachers keeping non-lethal weapons or SOME of them having working firearms.
I don't think all of them should have firearms, but really that's more of a self control and control of the class thing, I know some kids that would make me want to shoot them in the face sometimes.
At my high school, half the kids had hunting rifles in their trucks all the time. I didn't worry about them OR the safety of the school (though of course someone would have had to sneak out into the parking lot to get them if there was an emergency).
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While self defence it is a tempting option as it strongly appeals to our sense of justice, imagine what would have happened, for example, at Kent State if students were actually armed and firing back. It's thought that one reason for initiating gunfire was a mistaken belief on the part of the guardsmen that there was an armed sniper firing on them. (This from Wikipedia's article):
The Adjutant General of the Ohio National Guard told reporters that a sniper had fired on the guardsmen, which itself remains a debated allegation. Many guardsmen later testified that they were in fear for their lives, which was questioned partly because of the distance between them and the students killed or wounded. Time magazine later concluded that "triggers were not pulled accidentally at Kent State." The President's Commission on Campus Unrest avoided probing the question of why the shootings happened. Instead, it harshly criticized both the protesters and the Guardsmen, but it concluded that "the indiscriminate firing of rifles into a crowd of students and the deaths that followed were unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable.
The Adjutant General of the Ohio National Guard told reporters that a sniper had fired on the guardsmen, which itself remains a debated allegation. Many guardsmen later testified that they were in fear for their lives, which was questioned partly because of the distance between them and the students killed or wounded. Time magazine later concluded that "triggers were not pulled accidentally at Kent State." The President's Commission on Campus Unrest avoided probing the question of why the shootings happened. Instead, it harshly criticized both the protesters and the Guardsmen, but it concluded that "the indiscriminate firing of rifles into a crowd of students and the deaths that followed were unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable.
People who aren't regularly trained in or exposed to high-adrenaline, life-threatening situations (especially those that threaten multiple lives, including young children) may not react timely enough and accurately enough to defend themselves or others. Just a thought to put out there. I can see why people might think it's good to have people be armed, but I think there's a difference between a classroom break-in and a home break-in.
In these home break-in cases, gun self-defense may have worked for several reasons a gun-wielding teacher might not work as well. Perhaps it's because the home has more room for the defender to hide and prepare, the home has more ground for the criminal to cover, or the defender is more used to his home than the criminal is.
Just some thoughts to chew on.
In these home break-in cases, gun self-defense may have worked for several reasons a gun-wielding teacher might not work as well. Perhaps it's because the home has more room for the defender to hide and prepare, the home has more ground for the criminal to cover, or the defender is more used to his home than the criminal is.
Just some thoughts to chew on.
You can't shoot bullets out of the air.
Somebody has never seen Wanted.
Somebody has never seen Gunmen of the Apocalypse.
>Guns
>Sensible
>Sensible
The kids will get their hands on any weapons brought into school.
This the proverbial "band-aid on the shotgun wound" solution. Sticking guns in schools isn't going to stop things like this from happening. If you want to stop this sort of thing from happening, invest in social services. Invest in the mental health professionals who help diagnose and treat mental illness properly. Invest in science to help improve treatments so that people struggling with mental illness can live normal lives as much as possible. Invest in education. Reduce the class sizes so that the teachers don't get so burned out on having to wrangle fifty or a hundred kids that they don't notice when their students are struggling. Invest in building communities so that parents have resources they can access to help their kids, rather than just trying to manage them. Invest in support networks so that kids like Woodham and Lanza and Harris and Clebold and so many others don't feel like they're all alone in the world.
Or you can just take the easy route and put a gun in every classroom and wait for the sad statistics to come up and baffle you as to why your band-aid fix didn't work.
Or you can just take the easy route and put a gun in every classroom and wait for the sad statistics to come up and baffle you as to why your band-aid fix didn't work.
Or we can simply wait for the teachers to snap, and really help gun control along, because its that kind of stupidity that would only then shake people like the NRA into a state near logic.
The NRA is a paper tiger. After this last election and how poorly the campaigns they contributed to performed, I don't honestly see why anyone would be fearful of what the NRA has to say on anything. As the lawmakers who generally support the NRA come up for re-election in the mid-terms realize that gun rights aren't a popular issue, the NRA will have to modify its stances if they want to remain relevant.
Sadly, lawmakers have too much influence, and people have these things called emotions.
The lawmakers have to stay in office to have influence. With the relevance of the NRA's support dwindling and people's emotions demanding a different approach to guns, it wouldn't be too surprising to me to see lawmakers start taking a stronger anti-gun stance, at least through the next election cycle.
i'm glad you are sharing this story around!
there's another story where a 14-year-old boy was at home with his younger siblings. a guy broke into the home. the 14-year-old shot the guy, and protected the kids.
and also, on the same day of the newtown shooting, there was a gunman in a hospital in alabama (i think) he wounded a couple of people, i think, but police were there and they shot him and that stopped him.
and there are other stories. i think the reason why so many people don't realize that guns can prevent mass killings is that when guns HAVE prevented mass killings, the incidents are not big news because hardly anyone was hurt!! so people aren't aware.
to be honest, i'm conservative but even i didn't use to realize that there are incidents where guns saved people. i actually used to be liberal-leaning about guns. then i learned more about the issue and i slowly realized why conservatives are so adamant about having guns. it took me a while to realize.
there's another story where a 14-year-old boy was at home with his younger siblings. a guy broke into the home. the 14-year-old shot the guy, and protected the kids.
and also, on the same day of the newtown shooting, there was a gunman in a hospital in alabama (i think) he wounded a couple of people, i think, but police were there and they shot him and that stopped him.
and there are other stories. i think the reason why so many people don't realize that guns can prevent mass killings is that when guns HAVE prevented mass killings, the incidents are not big news because hardly anyone was hurt!! so people aren't aware.
to be honest, i'm conservative but even i didn't use to realize that there are incidents where guns saved people. i actually used to be liberal-leaning about guns. then i learned more about the issue and i slowly realized why conservatives are so adamant about having guns. it took me a while to realize.
THIS JUST IN Columbine had armed security guards and they even exchanged fire with the shooters, armed guards didn't prevent what was then the deadliest school shooting. Only people that have never been in live fire combat think that more guns are the solution. You have no idea how disorienting a shooting is, especially in an urban, densely populated setting.
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