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December 30, 2012
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Sensible solution to guns and schools

:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
This is what I have been pushing for the last two weeks and it is finally happening:

Arizona attorney general proposes arming 1 educator per school
[link]

PHOENIX (AP) Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne proposed a plan Wednesday to allow one educator in each school to carry a gun after receiving free firearms training from law enforcement...

The next best thing, he said, is to arm an educator, comparing that proposal to allowing pilots to carry guns after the 9/11 terror attacks.

_________________________

This is the sensible solution I have been saying all along. All it would have taken is one person to shoot back at the murderer and a dozen lives could have been saved. It is not hypothetical either. This is exactly what happened on October 1st 1997 in Pearl Mississippi. Nobody remembers the Pearl Mississippi shooting because the killer was stopped by an armed educator no less. [link]

The story of "A Principal and his Gun" is a true American tale of bravery and heroism.

Vice Principal Joel Myrick held his Colt .45 point blank to the high school boy's head. Last week, he told me what it was like. "I said 'why are you shooting my kids?' He said it was because nobody liked him and everything seemed hopeless," Myrick said. "Then I asked him his name. He said 'you know me, Mr. Myrick. Remember? I gave you a discount on your pizza delivery last week."

The shooter was Luke Woodham. On that day in 1997, Woodham slit his mother's throat then grabbed a .30-30 lever action deer rifle. He packed the pockets of his trench coat with ammo and headed off to Pearl High School, in Pearl, Miss.

The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car. His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.

-----

No wonder liberals don't like this story. People are wising up and learning the real truth. If you want to save lives, the answer is simple. Stop keeping guns from the hands of would-be heroes-the only people who obey gun laws. Joel Myrick had a gun, legally in his truck. Myrick and his gun saved lives. This is lesson Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne has certainly listened to.
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Devious Comments

:iconbohobella:
bohobella Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
American gun culture is fucking ridiculous. I've never SEEN a gun in person.

Friendly fire isn't so friendly.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
I shot my 'first' gun when I was 9 years old while in the boy scouts. Gun Culture is in my blood. You sound so intolerant and closed minded. Perhaps you should visit a firing range someday and see what that culture is really about instead of basing your opinions on ignorance.
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:iconbohobella:
bohobella Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
I know plenty about guns without having seen them. We own several. We simply don't keep them in the house. Maybe you should just as equally consider looking on the other side, because America is a huge joke with the amount of guns and gun violence running rampant down there.
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:iconmunkiic:
MunkiiC Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Digital Artist
are these teachers going to better trained than the guards at fort hoot and the soldiers who were killed there? they had a guns i think..
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:iconmunkiic:
MunkiiC Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Digital Artist
edit...Fort hood. (need coffee)
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:iconkitsumekat:
kitsumekat Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Do you really want to put guns into the hands of teachers who can barely control their students? That's creating a situation where a kid can be shot for no reason.
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:iconpuppy-dangerous:
puppy-dangerous Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
I don't really have a problem with weapons. I have a problem with weapons in the hands of people who shouldn't have them, because they (the person) is dangerous. But I'm pretty sure most people feel that way.

The only real issue I have with guns at ALL is 'swift immediate justice' when it isn't needed. That is, shooting someone you THINK is a threat who actually isn't. People don't always act rationally. Yeah, it's one thing to shoot the guy with gun who is killing kids at your school, totally a different story to shoot some kid walking down the street because you 'felt threatened'.

That's the whole reason we have the justice system, to avoid killing or punishing (more) innocent people.

But I'm sure when you look at it as a total, the number of people who are wrongly shot and KILLED is probably pretty low.

Paranoid people don't need guns. They need....I dunno. Phasers that never go above 'stun'. Yeah.

I'm down with having an armed security guard at a school. I mean, hell, there's always an officer hanging out at my daughters elementary school. And most of the high schools around here have either armed security or police that are paid to be there.

I don't think teachers need loaded weapons in their desk, but I'm fine with SOMEONE armed. I'm fine with teachers keeping non-lethal weapons or SOME of them having working firearms.

I don't think all of them should have firearms, but really that's more of a self control and control of the class thing, I know some kids that would make me want to shoot them in the face sometimes.

At my high school, half the kids had hunting rifles in their trucks all the time. I didn't worry about them OR the safety of the school (though of course someone would have had to sneak out into the parking lot to get them if there was an emergency).
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
"I don't really have a problem with weapons. I have a problem with weapons in the hands of people who shouldn't have them, because they (the person) is dangerous. But I'm pretty sure most people feel that way."

That is what background checks are for. As long as the handlers are properly vetted through the concealed carry permit process there should not be problems.
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:icondoctorv23:
DoctorV23 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Well there are some problems with that type of solution. These are a few examples of school shootings carried out by people in a position of authority: [link] [link] [link] [link] [link]

More guns = more violence, not less IMHO.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
The point is someone should have the means to defend themselves. No single entity should have a monopoly on the power of safety. If an authority figure starts killing people the answer is to shoot back and defend yourself. The plan of arming teachers is still the most sensible and reasonable solution in every one of those situations you linked.
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:icondoctorv23:
DoctorV23 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
While self defence it is a tempting option as it strongly appeals to our sense of justice, imagine what would have happened, for example, at Kent State if students were actually armed and firing back. It's thought that one reason for initiating gunfire was a mistaken belief on the part of the guardsmen that there was an armed sniper firing on them. (This from Wikipedia's article):
The Adjutant General of the Ohio National Guard told reporters that a sniper had fired on the guardsmen, which itself remains a debated allegation. Many guardsmen later testified that they were in fear for their lives, which was questioned partly because of the distance between them and the students killed or wounded. Time magazine later concluded that "triggers were not pulled accidentally at Kent State." The President's Commission on Campus Unrest avoided probing the question of why the shootings happened. Instead, it harshly criticized both the protesters and the Guardsmen, but it concluded that "the indiscriminate firing of rifles into a crowd of students and the deaths that followed were unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable.
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:icon290pika:
290Pika Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Filmographer
People who aren't regularly trained in or exposed to high-adrenaline, life-threatening situations (especially those that threaten multiple lives, including young children) may not react timely enough and accurately enough to defend themselves or others. Just a thought to put out there. I can see why people might think it's good to have people be armed, but I think there's a difference between a classroom break-in and a home break-in.

In these home break-in cases, gun self-defense may have worked for several reasons a gun-wielding teacher might not work as well. Perhaps it's because the home has more room for the defender to hide and prepare, the home has more ground for the criminal to cover, or the defender is more used to his home than the criminal is.

Just some thoughts to chew on.
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:iconabcat:
AbCat Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012   Writer
You can't shoot bullets out of the air.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Somebody has never seen Wanted.
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:iconabcat:
AbCat Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012   Writer
Somebody has never seen Gunmen of the Apocalypse.
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:iconprosaix:
prosaix Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
>Guns
>Sensible


:lol:
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
The kids will get their hands on any weapons brought into school.
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:iconmci021:
mci021 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
This the proverbial "band-aid on the shotgun wound" solution. Sticking guns in schools isn't going to stop things like this from happening. If you want to stop this sort of thing from happening, invest in social services. Invest in the mental health professionals who help diagnose and treat mental illness properly. Invest in science to help improve treatments so that people struggling with mental illness can live normal lives as much as possible. Invest in education. Reduce the class sizes so that the teachers don't get so burned out on having to wrangle fifty or a hundred kids that they don't notice when their students are struggling. Invest in building communities so that parents have resources they can access to help their kids, rather than just trying to manage them. Invest in support networks so that kids like Woodham and Lanza and Harris and Clebold and so many others don't feel like they're all alone in the world.

Or you can just take the easy route and put a gun in every classroom and wait for the sad statistics to come up and baffle you as to why your band-aid fix didn't work.
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Or we can simply wait for the teachers to snap, and really help gun control along, because its that kind of stupidity that would only then shake people like the NRA into a state near logic.
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:iconmci021:
mci021 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
The NRA is a paper tiger. After this last election and how poorly the campaigns they contributed to performed, I don't honestly see why anyone would be fearful of what the NRA has to say on anything. As the lawmakers who generally support the NRA come up for re-election in the mid-terms realize that gun rights aren't a popular issue, the NRA will have to modify its stances if they want to remain relevant.
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Sadly, lawmakers have too much influence, and people have these things called emotions.
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:iconmci021:
mci021 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
The lawmakers have to stay in office to have influence. With the relevance of the NRA's support dwindling and people's emotions demanding a different approach to guns, it wouldn't be too surprising to me to see lawmakers start taking a stronger anti-gun stance, at least through the next election cycle.
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:iconsachi-pon:
Sachi-pon Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
i'm glad you are sharing this story around!

there's another story where a 14-year-old boy was at home with his younger siblings. a guy broke into the home. the 14-year-old shot the guy, and protected the kids.

and also, on the same day of the newtown shooting, there was a gunman in a hospital in alabama (i think) he wounded a couple of people, i think, but police were there and they shot him and that stopped him.

and there are other stories. i think the reason why so many people don't realize that guns can prevent mass killings is that when guns HAVE prevented mass killings, the incidents are not big news because hardly anyone was hurt!! so people aren't aware.

to be honest, i'm conservative but even i didn't use to realize that there are incidents where guns saved people. i actually used to be liberal-leaning about guns. then i learned more about the issue and i slowly realized why conservatives are so adamant about having guns. it took me a while to realize.
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:iconferricplushy:
FerricPlushy Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
THIS JUST IN Columbine had armed security guards and they even exchanged fire with the shooters, armed guards didn't prevent what was then the deadliest school shooting. Only people that have never been in live fire combat think that more guns are the solution. You have no idea how disorienting a shooting is, especially in an urban, densely populated setting.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Nevermind I found a story on this: [link]

Seems the guard was on lunch.
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:iconferricplushy:
FerricPlushy Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
So not only was their armed "good guys" but they even exchanged shots with the shooters
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Do you have a link for that because that story doesn't seem legit.
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:iconthe-ever-eternal:
the-ever-eternal Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
look up european gun laws you'll find some good deterients for gun possession there

like this one:

Let’s take the example of France. To obtain such a license, people have to practice shooting during at least six months in a club of the official French Federation of Shooting. After the Federation has given its favorable opinion, the police investigate on criminal or mental records. If the police do not find anything, they give an authorization valid for five years. The owner must then buy his gun in a limited period of three months if he doesn’t want his authorization to expire. There is also a limitation regarding the number: a maximum of twelve guns can be detained, while in Norway, such restriction does not exist. Since the French law of 1995, it is nowadays compulsory to keep guns into a locked safe.

In France, Norway and the UK, the right to private gun ownership is not guaranteed by the Constitution. Moreover, in each country, sale of guns and firearms must be registered and recorded.

In case of illicit possession of firearms, the maximum penalty will be seven years prison and a fine in France while in Norway the maximum penalty would only be 3 months.

full article-> [link]

you want better gun control? do extensive research
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:iconscottahemi:
ScottaHemi Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I don't know about only 1 though. what if they're on the wrong side when something happens? that'll be no good. also it sounds a tad complex yet lacking at the same time.

if you asked me. any teacher or faculty who has taken and passed the local/state conceal carry classes for handguns, then they should be allowed to carry on school grounds. it's as simple as that.


in some states depending on the local schoolboard this is how it's done! my old high school was contemplating this.
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:iconsonrouge:
sonrouge Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Also, to those saying it won't work, why is it good enough for the president's daughter, but not good enough for us lowly peons?
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:iconscnal:
Scnal Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There's multiple people, each one well trained and some of the best guards there are, all protecting one or two people at once, with support immediately nearby. Nothing remotely close to that could be done regular people.
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:iconscnal:
Scnal Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
*with regular people.
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:iconpuppy-dangerous:
puppy-dangerous Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
Because the people protecting the First Family are TRAINED.
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:iconsonrouge:
sonrouge Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
And the people protecting the peons won't? Didn't your mommy teach you it's bad to make ASSumptions?
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:iconpuppy-dangerous:
puppy-dangerous Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
lol you fail at insults.
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:iconsonrouge:
sonrouge Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Ask me if I give a damn.
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Stop glorifying guns in media and news would also help :B
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:iconsonrouge:
sonrouge Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
And just to show what has happened before:

[link]
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:iconsonrouge:
sonrouge Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
It has merit, Novuso, and Texas had demonstrated it can work. And we've already seen the alternative, so I think it deserves a chance.

By the way, are you as amused as I am at people trying to shoot it down and offering nothing in response other than the proverbial "Punish everyone and let god sort them out" solution?
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist
Correlation doesn't equal causation. Have there been attempts at school shootings in Texas that have been stopped by armed teachers or has lack of shootings been thanked to armed teachers?

If they were stopped then that is good proof it works, otherwise just speculation.
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:iconsonrouge:
sonrouge Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
I put up the link to show that yes, armed resistance has stopped mass shootings before. And frankly, it should be clear by now that shooters prefer disarmed victims (compare the number of shootings at so called "gun free zones" compared to places like police stations, shooting ranges and gun shows, and note that most shooters tend to flee confrontation when the police (ie, armed opposition) arrive), so I think it can be said that the lack of school shootings in Texas is because there are armed faculty in them.
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist
I must have missed the link, I'll check it out.
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:iconcreamstar:
Creamstar Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Please, no. Less guns, not more.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Having a gun in your car is not the same as being armed. If he was shot on the way to his car, what then? He should be allowed to keep a gun in his office, rather than just in his car. I am highly against arming teachers but I am all for teachers being allowed to store a handgun in their office.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Correct a gun in the car is not the same as being armed. If he had the gun on him he would have been able to stop the killer sooner. That is the point Joel Myrick the hero of Pearl Mississippi is actually trying to make.
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:iconrestinmotion:
RestInMotion Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Oh, okay, I see. I focused on the wrong person. But yeah, I really think it's a stupid idea to arm teachers but I also think it's kind of stupid to not allow them to have a gun in their office or something.
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:iconyellow-five:
yellow-five Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Anyone else concerned about arming educators, when we keep running into pedophiles in school and we want to give them guns around our children... Wait didn't Virgina Tech, and Columbine have armed guards on campus?? Those "Good Guys With Guns" didn't seem to help.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Pedophiles shouldn't be in the teaching profession at all. In fact it is against the law for any sex offender to be within 1000ft of a school.

Having an armed guard is not the same thing as teachers with guns. Don't think Columbine had any guards either way. It is not practical to have guards in every school. If you read the original article it says Arizona had to cut back on its school guard program due to lack of funds. The sensible solution is arming the teachers. By that I mean legitimate teachers not pedophiles. [link]

Bottom line is if an educator can be trusted to look after dozens of children they can be trusted with a gun.
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:iconpuppy-dangerous:
puppy-dangerous Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
It's only illegal if they get caught. You can LOVE kids all you want, you just can't ever have been caught doing it.

Giving a teacher the ability to kill your kid with the pull of a trigger isn't exactly 'safe'. Teachers snap, too. Right now, if they do it and hit a kid they get fired and maybe never teach again- with a gun, they snap, and your kid is DEAD.

I trust the teachers to look after my kid at school. But I wouldn't throw my kid in a car with one and just let them drive away.
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:iconyellow-five:
yellow-five Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
Well not all people who victimize children are caught. I know for instance our highschool biology teacher got caught molesting boys in my grade. We didn't know it was a problem before or that he had those tendencies, so how do can you even begin to tell if an educator is some one who may use their influence to abuse children, now giving that person a gun.....

I don't believe teachers should have a gun or any other weapon. Personally I believe we do need some type of protection, but it needs to be from local citizens who are trained and educated, their qualifications should be on the same level as military service. I expect educators to teach not worry about how to protect our children. That is our job as a society. They should know when they go into a class, and when we send our kids off to school that we as a society have done everything to protect thee safety and education of our kids so they can grow up to be functioning members of society.

Okay I am sorry, but I know many teachers and educators who should not be trusted with a gun. We have educators who vindictively go after students at times because of personal grievances. I had my senior year math teacher fail me by .4% because he believed I cheated on the final. I took it 3 more times and aced it all times, yet against the faculty and my parents he still failed me to make a point. Not every teacher is the same just like every person. So to make a broad statement that well if you look after dozens of people that should be a reason to be allowed to carry a firearm. Let's start arming bus drivers, taxis, managers at private business, actually u would have to license anyone who oversaw a certain number of people for their "protection".
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