It's a sad fact that when people struggle, for example economically, it is very easy to rile them up against any group which is percieved as outsiders. It happends time and again. Racists and nationalists prey on desperation, they don't offer up solutions but they are great at pointing fingers and humans are *really* good at negativity.
You do need to look at the fact that at least in sweden, what this party is saying about immigrants and percieved outsiders etc would fit right in with a lot of the rightwing republicans in your state or national seats.
The scale for left and right and extreme views is very different depending on nation. The US doesnt have any nazis in government like greece has managed after their country essentially went bankrupt, but your right wing extremist politicians in the republican party would fit right in with many of what are considered very exteme elements over here.
It's difficult to simply make a straight translation of extreme left and right wing from europe to the states, let alone a psecific nation in europe and the US.
"Conservative" in the US right now is mainly on economic issues, and most social issues have to do with forcing reliegon down peoples throughts, but they are a shade of who they were as much as 20 years ago. None of these issues, most european conseratives wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
While there are obvious racial undertones, American conservatives are color blind compared to european ultra-nationalists.
The US of A is the only civilized country on earth which ignores its own immigration laws, publicly.
You can compare how the US treats hispanic immigrants with how Europe treats Roma and Middle Eastern immigrants.
I think it was 1/3rd or 2/3rd of hungarians that despise jews. There's a political party in extreme Hungary that wants to put a list on all jews in Hungary like they did before the holocaust in Europe.
Problem is when political parties like this gets popularity, another famous party will take their ideas. However, Sweden does a good job not making an alliance with the nationalists, whereas Hungary follows the step Germany took in the 1930s.
I think USA has strictly parties that have strict ideas and dont take from others to make their party "citizens favour". I really don't think there are alliances in USA, but I could be wrong. Sometimes democracy can be a good thing, but it's not when citizens in a country becomes racist.
I do not know about Sweden, but I remember pretty well when in Spain we had a rise of ultras in the nineties. Skin heads. There was not a big party behind this, maybe, those skins were supported by an small ultra nationalist insignificant party fraction we had, but basically, they were independent, organizing themselves in small group of teens, who preyed on immigrants and homeless people, beating them up Clockwork Orange movie style. That movement was somehow extended, but the skins seemed to quit the movement the moment they reached their early twenties.
I think that was a reaction to the first wave of immigration we had. For a country used to "export" people, like we were, it was a surprise to receive foreigners. If you combine the fear to the unknown to the economic crisis we were having then
I think is a natural reaction. It is Ok?. No, not at all, but it happens. In crisis times, the tendency is to blame foreigners, but hell, foreigners came because there were jobs, jobs that the Spaniards did not want to do themselves, but jobs after all
We actually tried that. Turned out it was a racists act not to accept "everyone", let's let in house dwellers to live with our social shit. Best thing is due to immigration policies and shit, they live a better life than natives because nation pays their jobseeking and they have car and house. WHERE IS OUR HOUSE AND CAR GIVEN BY OUR OWN COUNTRY!
They get a car and a house from the government? What we've seen is that they live in a secluded area where all are immigrants, a tiny civilization out of nowhere. It's them you are talking about? They have fled their country.
Yes, but nation doesn't give temp cars or houses to people who have i.e had their house burned down by arson or something else here. I find it wrong that they have tax free years and shit and get 2011 Benz under their ass while rest of the people drive 5-20 year old cars because car taxing is heavier than boulder size lead.
"You think racism gives you status? You get belittled as you belittle others." I didn't say/mean that. I said people are openly racists because of various reasons. I.E Youngsters are forced to learn YOUR language (it's not optional) because it's a history fragment from musket era. (and in general that is love-hate relationship in other areas) - Many grind their teeths because they hear anything about russia because they attempted genocide in musket age + ~100 years ago invasion. Yeah, we don't like many people and you can see it. This seems to be weapon against social bum / misusers too.
I'm not sure what mental failures you've experienced but I never said Scandinavian people were not bright. I said the Scandinavian countries should seek only the best and brightest people for immigration.
I just want to puke when I read your post. You don't understand anything and to me it sounds like you ignore poverty in other countries. You want to raise the bar for rich people and let other people die in wars or poverty.
As long as you don't break the laws of immigration, you are welcomed into a country. It doesn't say "You need to be a genius to be a citizen of this country", while still being a racist target or not being born in this country from people that have half the brain as you.
You didn't say scandinavians are not bright, but I told you that scandinavians that are not bright may live in a paradise just because they are scandinavians. You want a country for Geeks. That will never happen. So what do you do with other people? Burn their corpses?
Just you hope someone out there will help you when you're poor some day 'cause I certainly won't.
The thing about free speech is this: If you don't let fools run their mouths at will, they don't get the opportunity to prove themselves fools.
Also, Europe as a whole is a hell of a lot more nationalistic than it likes to admit. Anymore this kind of thing mostly gets expressed in things like Soccer games, but when things get rough, it tends to spill into politics.
It's not just about immigration. A true nationalist doesn't care about immigration or race or creed, provided that those things serve to unify the nation, not divide it. Mostly these days it's about people feeling like control of their government is drifting further and further from their hands into the control of extra-national bodies that have little representation by the people they rule over.
Well, here in Poland we don't have too much immigrants (nothing to find here! no money, no roads, ony churches!)but I we have racists who shouts "Polish for Poles" (like if there were no Poles, lol). I'm liberal, the only thing I'm afraid of connected with immigrants are fundamentalists.
Nationalists in Poland are becoming a problem. Racism and nazism is not legal, that is why that essence is smuggled by groups like ONR (their members makes "heil" and then explain they were ordering five beers) which are very popular here...
im from London, and over the last ten years theres been a huge influx of poles to the UK but there really has not been any problem, in London at least.
Considering how you talk about polish nationalists speaking of Poland for the poles, its ironic the nationalist parties tried to make a big deal of how London would be over run by eastern Europeans, but the nationalist parties' political powers are dying. So I guess the UK at least is bucking the trend.
You're talking about London, one of the most tolerant, liberal cities in the world. That is not the UK. Also, some boroughs around where I lived voted for UKIP as third power in the by-elections. I'm really disgusted that could happen in London, but that's the way it is.
imo the ukip votes are a protest vote. trying to force the tories into a more anti-european position.
i have confidence in Londoner's that third or a distant second is the closest parties like ukip (who are still better than the bnp) will manage, especially considering the ethnic diversity of the city.
yes you are right, its just London, not the UK, but even around the satellite areas to London (essex, kent, surrey, etc) i dont think any significant amount of people buy into the divisive politics of the ultranats.
Yeah, it was a protest vote, but then so was the NSDAP. Not that I'm comparing it really, but voting for a party one does not support out of protest is stupid. No matter, I still believe in London too. I just hope I won't be dissapointed.
Because contrary to what the media tells them about peaceful immigrants, gays (and others like them) are starting to get slightly worried at how their others will be treated in 100 years if those countries get hordes of immigrants from the middle east who are nostalgic for home. You explained it yourself. When you try to build up an imaginary utopia through lies where people don't have to have personal empathy for so long it gets extreme and hate-filled when it starts to break down.
In a hundred years, the Middle East won't be home. We've seen this countless times with immigrants. By second and especially by third generation, there are no ties to the "old country" to bring nostalgic feelings.
But many immigrants into new countries still hold many ideological underpinnings which are separate to their residence as a whole. And this is especially true in parts of Europe where they interrelate less. "Nostalgia" in this sentence was implying ideological situation, not superficial culture.
Take the poorer segments of black American population.* Even though most vote democrat, they are far more hostile to gays than even your average white republican. Because even though they are tenth generation removed from where they came from many of them, they still have their own internal culture different to that of the outside. Hispanics also are very socially conservative despite voting patterns. Ideologies which are more tolerant but exist existentially only in major ways in certain populations will wax and wane based on those populations, unless they are somehow spread to others. Can this happen in a big way? yes. But that doesn't mean there's not a possibility that it will go the other way as well. Which makes the people who would fear such an occurrence afraid.
*This obviously being a generality. Since you know, some people don't know what that means.
Divergent cultures in ethnic minority populations is due to sociopolitical isolation and community interests, not simply nostalgia. You also fail to account for how regional culture and small population samples would effect cultural integration; a small ethnic community represented in only a few regions will show less cultural variance than the majority.
I don't even know how you can use black Americans in such an example, as if the tragic and complex history of racism in America could have less effect on black communities than the (assumed) cultures of their ancestors which would have been suppressed anyway by most slave-owners.
You sound like an offended white male. I'm white too, but my skin is slightly browner than a real white person. I got it from my grandma. But I'm 100% serb ethic and 100% swede citizen. So am I a moslem? Apparently, I am moslem (dark white) and negro (just because I have a slight brown luminance skin) by the racists / nationalists. And I am born and raised in Sweden, by Serbian parents.
Do you know what's next after Ultra-Nationalist parties? Homogenic Society Party. This is what we get if people like Jimmie (aka offended white male) in Sweden make the citizens racist. It's not WE making YOU racists, it's racists making people racists.
Man, can you even make a baby as an immigrant in a western european country anymore?
Nice try, but many extreme things come from other things than themself, often in reactionary measures. Contrary to what the politically correct, or very confused old religious people who believe infinitely in the powers of free will think. The first being the one which is relevant in this case.
I was christian religious when I was young. I was afraid to give the church the finger. But now I don't care about traditions or whatever. I still believe that we go to another life after death, because I don't want to think we just perish. That is negatively thinking and would not make me a better person.
The fundamentalist islam, which I believe you are refering to, has a long story behind it, with wars and such. If they would be integrated to another country where religious laws and such does not exist, they would change their religion to be not so fundamentalistic. In 50-100 years or so.
I'm not sure what you're attempting to say which alleviates what they see as a fear. A good percentage of people IN first world countries would discriminate against them openly if they could. In fact, in many it's more than half the population. Why would people who are from places where they're even more extreme suddenly become less so? If anything you will get an average of both populations.
Almost the entire black American population still is openly hostile to gays in a large way. Because they have internal culture which exists in part independently of the dictates of wider society. To act like it's a misplaced fear to assume new groups from similar areas can have that and eventually all of it add up is to attempt to dismiss something for no better reason than that it's not polite conversation.
It's not like it's a guarantee. But it's certainly a possibility. And that's what they're afraid of.
So gays are scared middle eastern people, because they are bigoted.. So they go and align themselves with people who support the nazis, which, in turn, killed masses of gay people in concentration camps. The only thing considered lower than a jew was a gay jew.
The percentage of gays supporting nationalist parties is raising considerably. Nationalists hating gays 80 years ago doesn't mean that it's irrevocably true that they think all of them have to forever.