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December 24, 2012
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People Voting For Ultra-Nationalists, Why?

:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sweden has an ultra-nationalist party that has gone up a lot in numbers the latest years. Media is showing the people the dumb things the Ultra-Nationalists have done, but still going up.

Why? Because they don't want immigrants taking their jobs / cheating to get citizen contribution from the state? But where do they get their information from?

I'm an immigrant, and I can tell you that Sweden is really not where USA is today in learning about racism. But they are on their way there. Just if this Ultra-Nationalist party doesn't win the election.

What are your thoughts on this?
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Devious Comments

:iconmimer:
mimer Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
It's a sad fact that when people struggle, for example economically, it is very easy to rile them up against any group which is percieved as outsiders. It happends time and again. Racists and nationalists prey on desperation, they don't offer up solutions but they are great at pointing fingers and humans are *really* good at negativity.
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:iconder-freishutz:
der-freishutz Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I would rather vote for the patriots then these centerist's we have today. Unfortunatly ultra-nationalists are not patriots.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
"Sweden is really not where USA is today in learning about racism"

how the fuck do you know where the USA is on racist?

There is nothing close to european ultra-nationalist parties, that actually has representation in state or national governments on a scale that lets them effect change.
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:iconmimer:
mimer Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
You do need to look at the fact that at least in sweden, what this party is saying about immigrants and percieved outsiders etc would fit right in with a lot of the rightwing republicans in your state or national seats.

The scale for left and right and extreme views is very different depending on nation. The US doesnt have any nazis in government like greece has managed after their country essentially went bankrupt, but your right wing extremist politicians in the republican party would fit right in with many of what are considered very exteme elements over here.

It's difficult to simply make a straight translation of extreme left and right wing from europe to the states, let alone a psecific nation in europe and the US.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
"Conservative" in the US right now is mainly on economic issues, and most social issues have to do with forcing reliegon down peoples throughts, but they are a shade of who they were as much as 20 years ago. None of these issues, most european conseratives wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

While there are obvious racial undertones, American conservatives are color blind compared to european ultra-nationalists.

The US of A is the only civilized country on earth which ignores its own immigration laws, publicly.

You can compare how the US treats hispanic immigrants with how Europe treats Roma and Middle Eastern immigrants.
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think it was 1/3rd or 2/3rd of hungarians that despise jews. There's a political party in extreme Hungary that wants to put a list on all jews in Hungary like they did before the holocaust in Europe.

Problem is when political parties like this gets popularity, another famous party will take their ideas. However, Sweden does a good job not making an alliance with the nationalists, whereas Hungary follows the step Germany took in the 1930s.

I think USA has strictly parties that have strict ideas and dont take from others to make their party "citizens favour". I really don't think there are alliances in USA, but I could be wrong. Sometimes democracy can be a good thing, but it's not when citizens in a country becomes racist.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
" I really don't think there are alliances in USA"
There are none.

In the American political system, alliances are not politically advantageous, and there are only two main parties, who are despised by what little independents operate at the local levels.

The concept of a european political alliance would be considered close to treason among party faithful.
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:iconanatarakentara:
AnataraKentara Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Because long live my people, not these new people, few of which have done HEINOUS crimes and thus make all new people look bad.
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:iconspaniardwithknives:
SpaniardWithKnives Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I do not know about Sweden, but I remember pretty well when in Spain we had a rise of ultras in the nineties. Skin heads. There was not a big party behind this, maybe, those skins were supported by an small ultra nationalist insignificant party fraction we had, but basically, they were independent, organizing themselves in small group of teens, who preyed on immigrants and homeless people, beating them up Clockwork Orange movie style. That movement was somehow extended, but the skins seemed to quit the movement the moment they reached their early twenties.

I think that was a reaction to the first wave of immigration we had. For a country used to "export" people, like we were, it was a surprise to receive foreigners. If you combine the fear to the unknown to the economic crisis we were having then

I think is a natural reaction. It is Ok?. No, not at all, but it happens. In crisis times, the tendency is to blame foreigners, but hell, foreigners came because there were jobs, jobs that the Spaniards did not want to do themselves, but jobs after all
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:iconspaniardwithknives:
SpaniardWithKnives Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
*then, you have it
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:iconsiantjudas:
siantjudas Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012   Digital Artist
Well I guess people agree with the party. They're free to it, just like you're free to disagree with it. Doesn't make you more right or better.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012
The Scandinavian countries should pick and choose the best and the brightest for immigration, the rest can stay in their own countries.
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:iconfrozenglyph:
Frozenglyph Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
We actually tried that. Turned out it was a racists act not to accept "everyone", let's let in house dwellers to live with our social shit.
Best thing is due to immigration policies and shit, they live a better life than natives because nation pays their jobseeking and they have car and house. WHERE IS OUR HOUSE AND CAR GIVEN BY OUR OWN COUNTRY!
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
Canada and Australia have pretty good economies because they have immigration laws that push for educated people and not 'anyone'.

I hope the Scandinavian nations wise up and do the right thing.
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
They get a car and a house from the government? What we've seen is that they live in a secluded area where all are immigrants, a tiny civilization out of nowhere. It's them you are talking about? They have fled their country.
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:iconfrozenglyph:
Frozenglyph Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Adding: Also we are openly racists when it comes to other "non brother" nations so they rather live in sweden because Russians don't give a damn about them. And we are "evil" XD
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You think racism gives you status? You get belittled as you belittle others.
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:iconfrozenglyph:
Frozenglyph Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes, but nation doesn't give temp cars or houses to people who have i.e had their house burned down by arson or something else here.
I find it wrong that they have tax free years and shit and get 2011 Benz under their ass while rest of the people drive 5-20 year old cars because car taxing is heavier than boulder size lead.

"You think racism gives you status? You get belittled as you belittle others."
I didn't say/mean that. I said people are openly racists because of various reasons. I.E Youngsters are forced to learn YOUR language (it's not optional) because it's a history fragment from musket era. (and in general that is love-hate relationship in other areas) - Many grind their teeths because they hear anything about russia because they attempted genocide in musket age + ~100 years ago invasion. Yeah, we don't like many people and you can see it. This seems to be weapon against social bum / misusers too.
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sweden pop. 9 million.
India pop. near 1 billion
China pop. near 3 billion
World pop. 6 billion

I don't give a damn about what you think. Look at these countries. Asia is the world leading in population. Lots of brown people in Asia.

Blondes are a minority on the planet. And this should be one sign to you why racists in Scandinavia are stupid.
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:iconfrozenglyph:
Frozenglyph Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Few words about nordic and possibly generic national racism: The fear of losing culture / mixing it with theirs.
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Your thinking is odd. What about scandinavians that are not "bright"? And you haven't been in a war it seems.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
I'm not sure what mental failures you've experienced but I never said Scandinavian people were not bright.
I said the Scandinavian countries should seek only the best and brightest people for immigration.

War has nothing to do with anything.
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I just want to puke when I read your post. You don't understand anything and to me it sounds like you ignore poverty in other countries. You want to raise the bar for rich people and let other people die in wars or poverty.

As long as you don't break the laws of immigration, you are welcomed into a country. It doesn't say "You need to be a genius to be a citizen of this country", while still being a racist target or not being born in this country from people that have half the brain as you.

You didn't say scandinavians are not bright, but I told you that scandinavians that are not bright may live in a paradise just because they are scandinavians. You want a country for Geeks. That will never happen. So what do you do with other people? Burn their corpses?

Just you hope someone out there will help you when you're poor some day 'cause I certainly won't.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Jan 8, 2013
"You want to raise the bar for rich people and let other people die in wars or poverty."

Being intelligent requires no wealth. Silly.
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:iconunvalanced:
Unvalanced Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Europe has suppressed racist speech and the like.

The thing about free speech is this: If you don't let fools run their mouths at will, they don't get the opportunity to prove themselves fools.

Also, Europe as a whole is a hell of a lot more nationalistic than it likes to admit. Anymore this kind of thing mostly gets expressed in things like Soccer games, but when things get rough, it tends to spill into politics.
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:iconragerancher:
Ragerancher Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
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:iconshidaku:
Shidaku Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2012
It's not just about immigration. A true nationalist doesn't care about immigration or race or creed, provided that those things serve to unify the nation, not divide it. Mostly these days it's about people feeling like control of their government is drifting further and further from their hands into the control of extra-national bodies that have little representation by the people they rule over.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
depends on the nation.

If your in Europe, ethnonationalism makes more sense from a nationalist sense.

It makes NONE to an American, because our founding fathers where all white and English, they started this country as a rejection of being English, and a rejection of European style nationalism.

So nationalism is the preservation of cultural traditions of your nation, and ethnicity, which is a nation.

Its quite a common and accepted idea outside the western world. It was quite common in the west before ww2, and afterwards anything ethnonationalist got associated with hitler.

I personally think its a silly and dangerous concept
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:iconshidaku:
Shidaku Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Any concept which gets a lot of people on the same ideas can be dangerous.

But I really don't think the idea of unifying a country through new or existing cultural traditions, shared political ideology and other things is that silly.
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:icontrorbes:
Trorbes Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
Most nations are defined by things such as ethnicity, though, which is why nationalism goes hand-in-hand with racism and xenophobia.
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:iconshidaku:
Shidaku Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
Traditionally, this is true. I think it is becoming more common for nations to be defiend by a unified identity however.
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:iconmadamedevoltaire:
MadameDeVoltaire Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2012  Hobbyist
Well, here in Poland we don't have too much immigrants (nothing to find here! no money, no roads, ony churches!)but I we have racists who shouts "Polish for Poles" (like if there were no Poles, lol). I'm liberal, the only thing I'm afraid of connected with immigrants are fundamentalists.

Nationalists in Poland are becoming a problem. Racism and nazism is not legal, that is why that essence is smuggled by groups like ONR (their members makes "heil" and then explain they were ordering five beers) which are very popular here...
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:iconhackneyraja:
HackneyRaja Featured By Owner Dec 25, 2012
im from London, and over the last ten years theres been a huge influx of poles to the UK but there really has not been any problem, in London at least.

Considering how you talk about polish nationalists speaking of Poland for the poles, its ironic the nationalist parties tried to make a big deal of how London would be over run by eastern Europeans, but the nationalist parties' political powers are dying. So I guess the UK at least is bucking the trend.
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:iconirononiji:
iroNoNiji Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
You're talking about London, one of the most tolerant, liberal cities in the world. That is not the UK. Also, some boroughs around where I lived voted for UKIP as third power in the by-elections. I'm really disgusted that could happen in London, but that's the way it is.
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:iconhackneyraja:
HackneyRaja Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012
imo the ukip votes are a protest vote. trying to force the tories into a more anti-european position.

i have confidence in Londoner's that third or a distant second is the closest parties like ukip (who are still better than the bnp) will manage, especially considering the ethnic diversity of the city.

yes you are right, its just London, not the UK, but even around the satellite areas to London (essex, kent, surrey, etc) i dont think any significant amount of people buy into the divisive politics of the ultranats.
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:iconirononiji:
iroNoNiji Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, it was a protest vote, but then so was the NSDAP. Not that I'm comparing it really, but voting for a party one does not support out of protest is stupid. No matter, I still believe in London too. I just hope I won't be dissapointed.
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:iconenuocale:
EnuoCale Featured By Owner Dec 24, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Because contrary to what the media tells them about peaceful immigrants, gays (and others like them) are starting to get slightly worried at how their others will be treated in 100 years if those countries get hordes of immigrants from the middle east who are nostalgic for home. You explained it yourself. When you try to build up an imaginary utopia through lies where people don't have to have personal empathy for so long it gets extreme and hate-filled when it starts to break down.
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:iconouroboroscobra:
OuroborosCobra Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012
In a hundred years, the Middle East won't be home. We've seen this countless times with immigrants. By second and especially by third generation, there are no ties to the "old country" to bring nostalgic feelings.
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:iconenuocale:
EnuoCale Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
But many immigrants into new countries still hold many ideological underpinnings which are separate to their residence as a whole. And this is especially true in parts of Europe where they interrelate less. "Nostalgia" in this sentence was implying ideological situation, not superficial culture.

Take the poorer segments of black American population.* Even though most vote democrat, they are far more hostile to gays than even your average white republican. Because even though they are tenth generation removed from where they came from many of them, they still have their own internal culture different to that of the outside. Hispanics also are very socially conservative despite voting patterns. Ideologies which are more tolerant but exist existentially only in major ways in certain populations will wax and wane based on those populations, unless they are somehow spread to others. Can this happen in a big way? yes. But that doesn't mean there's not a possibility that it will go the other way as well. Which makes the people who would fear such an occurrence afraid.

*This obviously being a generality. Since you know, some people don't know what that means.
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:icontrorbes:
Trorbes Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
Divergent cultures in ethnic minority populations is due to sociopolitical isolation and community interests, not simply nostalgia. You also fail to account for how regional culture and small population samples would effect cultural integration; a small ethnic community represented in only a few regions will show less cultural variance than the majority.

I don't even know how you can use black Americans in such an example, as if the tragic and complex history of racism in America could have less effect on black communities than the (assumed) cultures of their ancestors which would have been suppressed anyway by most slave-owners.
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
You sound like an offended white male. I'm white too, but my skin is slightly browner than a real white person. I got it from my grandma. But I'm 100% serb ethic and 100% swede citizen. So am I a moslem? Apparently, I am moslem (dark white) and negro (just because I have a slight brown luminance skin) by the racists / nationalists. And I am born and raised in Sweden, by Serbian parents.

Do you know what's next after Ultra-Nationalist parties? Homogenic Society Party. This is what we get if people like Jimmie (aka offended white male) in Sweden make the citizens racist. It's not WE making YOU racists, it's racists making people racists.

Man, can you even make a baby as an immigrant in a western european country anymore?
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:iconenuocale:
EnuoCale Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Nice try, but many extreme things come from other things than themself, often in reactionary measures. Contrary to what the politically correct, or very confused old religious people who believe infinitely in the powers of free will think. The first being the one which is relevant in this case.
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:iconmichelba:
Michelba Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I was christian religious when I was young. I was afraid to give the church the finger. But now I don't care about traditions or whatever. I still believe that we go to another life after death, because I don't want to think we just perish. That is negatively thinking and would not make me a better person.

The fundamentalist islam, which I believe you are refering to, has a long story behind it, with wars and such. If they would be integrated to another country where religious laws and such does not exist, they would change their religion to be not so fundamentalistic. In 50-100 years or so.
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:iconouroboroscobra:
OuroborosCobra Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012
Also, how is any of that evidence for nostalgia?
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:iconouroboroscobra:
OuroborosCobra Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012
But many immigrants into new countries still hold many ideological underpinnings which are separate to their residence as a whole.

*Looks around at America*

Nope, not a hundred years later, they don't.

Take the poorer segments of black American population

That's a factor of poverty, not immigration. Also, are you going to compare people immigrating by personal choice to people carried over on slave ships? Really?
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:iconzagstrike:
ZaGstrike Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012
"gays (and others like them) are starting to get slightly worried at how their others will be treated in 100 years"

Because, y'know, no one has ever assimilated to a new country in less than 110 years.

"get hordes of immigrants from the middle east who are nostalgic for home."

Ah, the "Minorties are invading us!" card. Classy.

Why do we even let them live? May as well nip the problem in the bud while they're still less than 1% of the population and kill 'em all now, right?
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:iconenuocale:
EnuoCale Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I'm not sure what you're attempting to say which alleviates what they see as a fear. A good percentage of people IN first world countries would discriminate against them openly if they could. In fact, in many it's more than half the population. Why would people who are from places where they're even more extreme suddenly become less so? If anything you will get an average of both populations.

Almost the entire black American population still is openly hostile to gays in a large way. Because they have internal culture which exists in part independently of the dictates of wider society. To act like it's a misplaced fear to assume new groups from similar areas can have that and eventually all of it add up is to attempt to dismiss something for no better reason than that it's not polite conversation.

It's not like it's a guarantee. But it's certainly a possibility. And that's what they're afraid of.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
So gays are scared middle eastern people, because they are bigoted.. So they go and align themselves with people who support the nazis, which, in turn, killed masses of gay people in concentration camps. The only thing considered lower than a jew was a gay jew.



Uhhuh.
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:iconenuocale:
EnuoCale Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The percentage of gays supporting nationalist parties is raising considerably. Nationalists hating gays 80 years ago doesn't mean that it's irrevocably true that they think all of them have to forever.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Nationalists hating gays 80 years ago doesn't mean they'll forever hate gays, but, according to you, middle eastern people will hate gay people for over 100 years :roll:

More gay people might be joining nationalistic movements, however, that is in no way supported by the LGBTI movement.
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