I'd give it days at the most before the weapons start falling into the hands of the students. Kids are smart and get everywhere. Kids can pick locks, crack codes, hack computers. They can do all that and be incredibly stupid at the same time.
This measure will put schools in far more danger than they are now.
Israel has a 60 day waiting period for gun purchases, you must be deemed mentally fit to own one, you are trained in its use and you get 50 bullets for the rest of your life. We should be doing all of this.
Remember when two trained police officers shot 9 bystanders while attempting to take down a man at the Empire State building last august? Doesn't really make the case for having armed teachers in a classroom, does it?[link]
The day of this (most recent) shooting, a man did the exact same thing in a school in China, except with a knife instead of a gun. 4 kids were wounded, 0 were killed. Guns are the obvious problem here.
In the case of China that situation could have turned really bad because in the recent years there's been a rise in attacks on school children, all with knives, many ending in fatalities.
But I agree. Israel jumped early on 'bullet control'. I remember one comedian joked we should just make bullets really expensive, so if someone tries to kill you, you probably deserve it if they spent a thousand dollars just so they can shoot you.
I think you are close to the solution to school shootings. I think in these vulnerable environments there does need to be additional training and equipment available to teachers to enable them to repel any threat. I think an automated system should be used wherein teachers form an integral part of the process, in my mind based completely on this: [link]
Sure, you might get some opponents: those crazy Gun Control weirdos who believe that more guns may actually result in more deaths, but screw them and screw their commonunist sense. Fricken hippies.
Israel was surrounded by nations who wanted them dead. Israel was and to some extent still lives day to day in a cold war status with terrorist. That solution works for Israel only because the situation calls for it.
In the US we do not have even remotely the number of school shootings which calls for armed security guards. Even if we did have them, 9/10 of all schools are still soft targets as the kids exchange classes between buildings on campus.
Bottom line is, having the teachers armed doesn't do anything but teach the kids to be afraid of everyone.
We must push towards a more civilized society in which we fix our problems and you do this with mental health for all, not armed teachers as the last line of defense.
If you really wish to make the schools safer by proactive action... replace class room doors with steel doors which lock from the inside at three places... Vault doors. Replace the glass with bullet resistant glass and line the walls with steel plates. Now you have your fort knocks.
From what I have read so far, even a place like Israel heavily regulates gun ownership. You must have a valid reason for owning a firearm and must re-apply for gun permit for those who can own a gun.
HUGE problems I can nit-pick, if we were to turn a school into a fortress beyond bullet proofing building structures:
1. Training most of the teachers and other faculty members how to use gun is next to useless. You have to be a lot more thorough than that. If this were not the case, SWAT team ought to be a minimal-wage job.
2. Tactical training and constant drills are a must. Otherwise, when hell breaks lose, these teachers will be at a loss as to what to do. They must also be taught close quarter combat, in case they are either out of ammo or lost their guns.
3. How about the kids? They must be drilled in evacuation and other emergency drills well in advance.
4. If hell has broken out, then the teachers face the possibility of PTSD merely by getting into a situation in which they may have to pull trigger. How about the risk of 'friendly fire' incidents? Has it ever occurred to anyone that combat veterans who have actually killed someone in close combat face higher risk of trauma and suicide?
5. In sum: Tactical and psychological trainings cost a lot of money and time, too. Are they worth it?
6) will the coach shoot his star player or try to talk him out of his homicidal rage?
Teachers use a different set if skills. Skills not requiring the pulling of triggers, but of thought.
7) in a panicked hallway, you will not have a clean shot.
8) even if we make the schools safe. (magic) what of the day care centers? You know, the ones which have the big bay windows and let you see the kids play?
What if the hospitals? You are almost never challenged when walking in a hospital. If you were a sick nut, you could go room to room with a knife and it would be 30 minutes (nurse rounds/ baring heart machines) before anyone figured out anything.
Bottoms line. Guns aren't the answer, they aren't the problem. People are.
Gun nuts will say to you; "Wiki or it didn't happen D:. Or that's not possible!111wun"
Until they arm the teachers and as you say, one goes postal and starts shooting kids. My bet is it would start at the high school level. Then there will be gun nut parents who don't like that teachers are armed, and decide they have the right to arm their children and send them to school packing.
There are eight attacks listed in wiki involving school staff shooting students:
After being removed as principal of South Pasadena Junior High School, Verlin Spencer shot six school officials, killing five, before attempting to commit suicide by shooting himself in the stomach. He was later sentenced to five consecutive life sentences, and was released early on parole in 1970.
Dr. C. O. Swinney shot and fatally wounded his 16-year-old daughter Nellie in a reception room at Normal and Collegiate Institute. He then committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.
Tsui Yin, a 41-year-old former physical education teacher at Li Shing junior high school in Taipei, returned to the school, where he shot and killed the principal, the principal's wife and five other faculty members with a pistol in revenge for his dismissal. He also wounded three others, among them the principal's daughter, before managing to escape in a taxi, though he was later arrested by police when seeking refuge in a friend's house. Tsui Yin was sentenced to death and executed on July 26 of the same year.
During an after-school meeting at West Orange High School to discuss his unwanted advances towards a 16-year-old girl, 41-year-old assistant principal Roosevelt Holloman pulled out a gun and shot principal Raymond Screws, 51, to death. Holloman also shot at two other school officials at the meeting but missed. Holloman then surrendered his gun to a janitor and waited until he was arrested. He was later convicted of first-degree murder.
34-year-old Czech refugee Karel Charva, fatally shot three students, a teacher and a police officer and injured another 14 people with two semi-automatic pistols, before committing suicide at the Freiherr-vom-Stein Gesamtschule.
Teacher Charles Raboroko shot and killed three of his colleagues in the staffroom at Anchor Comprehensive High School in Soweto. When he tried to escape he was hindered by angry students outside the school, whereupon he hid in a classroom, where he was later arrested by police. Raboroko was said to have borne a grudge against one of his victims, Henry Lebea, whom he killed with five shots in the head.
After spending the afternoon drinking, school guard Liang Yongcheng walked into a students' dormitory at a middle school in Longzhou county and threatened to kill everybody who tried to stop him. He eventually committed suicide, but not before shooting a teacher and six students with a hunting rifle.
Chen Peiquan, an English teacher with a history of mental problems, stabbed six students and a teacher in a dormitory at Yang Gan Middle School, killing four of them. He was arrested after fleeing to the roof of the building.
Presumably one of the kids will have a carry permit and take that heroic headshot themselves. You've gotta love gun advocates: with every mass-shooting, their response will always be "if only more people were armed!".
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns
I know you think this is the most devastatingly pithy quote that will silence all of us wet liberals, but actually I'm fine with gun ownership being confined to outlaws. The fallacy in this particular statement is that it assumes that outlaws will be able to have their guns unmolested, and that there'll be the same supply of guns. As it happens, outlaws known to have offensive weapons will be pursued and, with legislation prohibiting ownership of guns, jailed for lengthy periods. With weapons steadily confiscated as well, there will be a reduced supply of guns for the outlaws to have. And yes, there will be the black market, but this is hardly as accessible to the average person as you seem to think it is and, again, it can be and is targeted by law enforcement, often undercover.
Also, in America it's not just the outlaws one has to fear. Almost all of these school shootings have been committed by people who had no criminal history, nor were any warning signs spotted, and their guns were held legally either by themselves or by family members. Reducing it to just outlaws who will have to own guns furtively and under threat of arrest or death would be an improvement in my books.
For one thing, gun legislation only looks at any new purchases but present guns are usually exempt, and those number in the hundred millions. So there will always be a supply. The police seem to not be able to stop the influx of illegal weapons, ie: AK-47's and others not even made in the US, any more than the influx of illegal drugs from across the border. I remember a case where guns confiscated by the police were found to get back on the street. I think you are beating a dead horse but I guess only time will tell.
It wouldn't be such a bad idea to allow teachers to conceal a weapon for use in emergency situation like what happened there. but the kids shouldn't know about who has and who doesn't have weapons. it should be a surprise basis for any would be shooters. the way to go about doing this though would probably be best either to comply with the state laws regarding concealed carry, if a state doesn't allow concealed carry, let them have non lethal things like long range tasers or something.
I don't really like he idea of guards in schools though... makes me think of the Red Lake High school... which ironically had a shooting despite the guards and metal detectors.
Incidents aside, if the school really wants their school protected, I think it would be better to hire security than to arm your teachers:
1.) The school is ultimately protected by people who are specifically trained for handling that sort of thing.
2.) Students will hardly see the security guards, since they're in class most of the time. (I can vouch for this, having gone to a middle-school with a security force)
3.) Teachers won't be burdened with having to learn how to use a gun, bring it to classrooms full of kids, nor will they ever have to risk their lives (if they wanted to, they should take time to think about their career choice...)
they already do ... because of israeli mossad and genuine lone gunmen. this is taking one fear and replacing it with a lessor, more acceptable fear. did you know in the olden days teachers would hit kids? kids went to school in fear. They also fucking learnt to read and write!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They also rebelled against every authority figure after a while and lots became fucked up in the head for life. Great job all that shit did.
Who's to say that a teacher won't go nuts on their own and start shooting students or threatening them with a gun pressed to their head, thereby mentally scarring kids for life? There are damn good reasons why teachers don't use fear and intimidation to teach anymore ya idget... Trying to control through fear only makes things worse.
Did you go to school? What happened to your writing skills?
Okay, lets take you seriously for a second. You're suggesting a solution that's way too overboard for what's really an uncommon situation. Schools hire security, not teachers, to protect the school if they think it's nessecary. I can't see any reason to give teachers guns when there are other staff members that can handle protecting the school. But really, school shootings are hardly common at all.
Also, in the olden days they did not discipline with guns. You can't discipline with guns, only kill other people. Maybe it's because I grew up in a place without gun-cultures, but I hardly think scaring your students is hardly worth protecting them for the rare shooting. You also need to train them to use guns properly.
And ultimately, teachers are hired to TEACH, not shoot a fucking gun. If they wanted to protect schools, they should join the school's security force.
1. Element of surprise. knowing that people in school have gun lone would deter some would be shooters. 2. won't freak anyone out. because I know a number of Librals who are paranoid about guns and using them to intemidate the class is a big no no... 3. all you need is a good old reliable pistol. shotguns and rifles make no sense in a schools defense... those are long range weapons, and one of them would probably traumatize someone if they see the end results... though a shotgun can be used with non lethal ammo. taser bullets, bean bag slugs.
though that crosses point 1 and 2. unless it's hidden inside the classroom that is.