I don't know about solutions, but I'm at least going to make a post I made in another thread about the type of problems we have to overcome: ----- I suffer from depression and anxiety myself, ranging from barely manageable to bouts of the level of panic attacks and being unable to get out of bed and do anything.
On the societal level I've experienced everything from being called lazy (because of course feeling like totally fucking shit is "laziness"), and asked why I "don't just get over it already" (if only it were that easy), to being abandoned by friends and even my girlfriend because "I'm too depressing/they're tired of hearing about my problems", even as the times I'm really down are when I needed that support the most (gee, I'm so sorry my life isn't sunshine and rainbows for you, if you're tired of hearing about it, imagine what it's like having to actually live it). On the therapy side I've been belittled and treated condescendingly to the point of actually being physically abused and threatened by a bunch of dipshit police officers and therapists who simply could not accept that the initial therapist I dealt with was mistaken that I was suicidal and it was their forced, unwanted "treatment" that is what was upsetting me, so my attempts to get the hell out of a fucking scary situation were threatened with involuntary sedation, restraint, and hospital admittance.
And I'm the type of mentally ill person who is non-violent and fully sane in the sense of not experiencing dissociative thoughts or behavior. Now imagine trying to treat someone or society dealing with someone who is violent and/or experiences breaks from reality. -----
AbsolutesNichtsFeatured By OwnerJan 4, 2013Hobbyist Digital Artist
i think he was just rejected by the ones he wanted to be noticed. this and other influences like the asperger probably caused this disaster ...
i'm sick of Hearing this "i am soooo depressed" if it has a reason like familiar tragedies or illness okay, but some People just Need to get their ass together.
and it's not that Special that someone runs out to kill someone, even their own Family - in tv there recently have been several reportings of Family fathers who killed their Family because they (f.e.) lost their Job and thought they would be ashamed by that and there was no other way because they could not feed them anymore.
biggest shit ever, i don't get it. if it wasn't because of some Kind of illness, there is no reason or better - at least, explanation - for this.
What evidence is there that he was mentally ill? The massacre of 26 people including his own mother? Nothing else he did before this massacre sounds much different than ordinary adolescents to me. To you? Depression? Anxiety? RLY! Asberger's isn't a disease, and it's totally subjective. It just means social awkwardness. How many of us have that? C'mon don't be shy! So aside from the actual crime I don't see how we're supposed to "red flag" this kid. He wasn't crazy until after he murdered- and if we're just going to call every person who acts on a sudden urge inside their own head by killing people as 'crazy' then we're kind of in trouble don't you think? If guns weren't so accessible he wouldn't have been able to do much more than punch a hall monitor or throw some desks.
I haven't followed the story that much. Did he have depression? Was he on meds for something?
What can make someone actually want to do that? I read many articles that suggest one reason: people try and "beat" someone else's record. They want to go down in history. They want to be a celebrity. I think Macleans's Magazine recently put out an issue that had the faces of all these Canadian killers on its cover. They get treated like evil stars.
Or course, there are probably many things that make someone go out and do something like that. Also, I read somewhere that most people who commit crimes had no history of mental health issues. Maybe many didn't seek help and should have.
I don't know why that's always the first thing people try to tie into mass shootings...Plenty of people are depressed. Most don't shoot other people. The worst is that they shoot themselves. You should be asking if he was sociopathic.
I've noticed that even in our Western societies mental health is often an issue overlooked until it's too late.
As a person who has undergone a mental break down, myself, I can speak from personal experience the difficulty of dealing with it in a society that would sooner sweep the issue under the carpet then deal with it. I sought help, was handed a prescription of anti-depressants and sent on my way. I had to REQUEST counselling for myself, in which I was given 3 free sessions and then told that if I wanted further help I needed to pay a fee, which I couldn't afford at the time. I even sought out assistance to possibly help pay for the counselling I needed and was denied because they didn't believe my mental state to be enough of a concern to warrant treatment. YET, just prior to that I remember telling a close friend of mine, "You know, I can see how easy it is for some folks to just lose it and kill people." It scared the sht out of me, and her, but at that time I could honestly see how people could go completely insane and, by doing so, lost all inhibitions, cares, and kill people without blinking an eye because, mentally, there's nothing left of a concients to stop them. I actively sought help for myself, with no help from my doctor (who knew the state i was in) or anyone else. I had to struggle through it on my own and, thank goodness, succeeded. But who's to say what would have happened if I'd been a weaker person who hadn't been able to pull myself back from insanity? I don't even like thinking about it.
I've spoken to many people since and heard similar stories, so I know it wasn't just me who's been failed, but I still try to help people in similar situations find the help then need in whatever ways I can in hopes that no more need to fight alone like I did.
If by real you mean that it can be defined absolutely? Then no, it's not real. But, we have to consider that mental health can vary dramatically to most people even when they live within a half a mile of each other, it doesn't exist as a law, but most as a relative principle that guides each individual based on their own experiences and bringing up.
I have mental issues, I was diagnosed with schizo-effective and have been doing decent with it, I mean it's no cake walk, it's a horrible experience that I could have possibly lived without. it's schizophrenia with bi-polar tendency with many other labels thrown in by various doctors and carried on. people can be mentally ill and have some what control over themselves, whereas others are so far gone, like this case here, and you have this sort of incident. sure the video games "might" have been the cause, or maybe it was the person. I play video games with quite a lot of violence in some of them. but to take up a weapon and walk into a school and kill people, a mall, a church, etc. I just don't see myself doing it, but there are some people which/who are so far mentally troubled it's only a matter of time, some never reach that point, some eventually do go over the edge. like sociopaths and the likes. most mental is genetic, but some is environmental.
General memo: if you only care about mental health care in the wake of a shooting, you seriously need to question yourself. There are far more mentally ill people who hurt themselves than mentally ill people who shoot up a school. Mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators of it. Only talking about mental health after a shooting implies that you don’t care about mental illness when we’re being hurt; you only care about it when we’re hurting neurotypicals.
In America alone there has been various killers and shooters without ANY mental problem. The whole mental topic is nothing more but an issue to try to distract the public and everyone else about how too easy it is to get a gun in America. Much harder then it is to get a car.
Through yes the western culture should learn how to deal with people with mental ilnesses.
Mental health treatment is still in it's infancy. In 20 years we'll look back on mental health treatment like people today look back on sanitariums. The mental health premise is still the same, lock up anyone with suicidal/homicidal ideations, give them minimal to no treatment until they say they no longer have those ideations.
Even if the US mental health care system was A1, there's nothing to say a person's psychiatric health cannot deteriorate in a matter of minutes. Tighter restrictions of firearms means that when someone does badly go wrong, the damage they can do to themselves and others is also restricted. There is no reason why someone not living in the wilderness or a warzone should want to own a gun.
Lets have a conversation about mental illness [link]
It seems what caused this massacre was Adam was about to be incarcerated against his will, with no trial, no lawyer, no represnative, and no jury, certainly none his peers. He will get no apeal, and no sympathy.
He was going to remain incarcerated as long as a bunch of self described proffesionals who all gradutated from college with degrees in soft science, can make enough money selling him mind altering, carcenogenic, perminatly dehabilitating drugs, of which he cannot refuse, all to pay for the expensive college experiances.
This was probably not his first run in with the system, and its likely that years of harrassment for the pharacutical industry sponsored quacks caused him to say "fuck my life", in face of great stress.
I in no way condone what he did, in the least. Its terrible and reprehensible.
But for one second put yourself in the shoes of a man who the world is at war with, because of the conveniences of system that doesn't care. Tell me you wouldn't be the slightest be disaffected?
Lets have a good conversation about mental illness in America. Lets start with a 1950s PSA about a form of mental illness called "homosexuality", which at one point was considered a "mental illness", and a "sex crime" [link]
Lets move on to 70s, 80s, and 90s, where belonging to counterculture or critizing the system to hard got you a "mental illness".
The solution is obvious, we need to start reviewing the official power we give "mental health officials", and start giving them far more oversight.
1. we need to ensure that no one is ever incarcerated for any reason without being convicted, and in conviction, they never loose the right of appeal, or trial by jury, or
2. oversight on anti-psychotics, anti-depressants, pain meds, ritallian/dexatrine(legal speed being pushed to grade school kids, agressive, don't say), and all other psychotropics. If anything the worst offenders need to loose their medical licenses and perhaps get jail time.
What about how right now the government can put on a watch list if you simply purchase many one way tickets for a business? Or you have a tendency to prepare for disasters of any sort? Or simply are on the record as speaking out against it?
I admit the psychology is a rather soft science, but it is a science in that it self corrects. Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness. It learned that it was a natural condition. But how likely is it that the government will restructure itself when it learns that those types of things they are suspicious about occur no matter what?
I mean think about it. The government is watching the Tea Party. It was almost listed as a terrorist organization. How did they come to that conclusion? Because those that seem to join like owning weapons and speaking out against the government. How many of the Occupiers got put on a watch list when they were actively calling for the destruction of the system?
And you would really trust the government to monitor all the therapists and the drugs they use? Guess what, they already do. But there are so many that unless somebody reports a problem, they have no idea what is occurring. So how would you do this?
Honestly, I think that if the therapist prescribing the drugs wishes to keep the person on them for more than 90 days, they need to get an MD involved. Perhaps there is another medical option while the person continues therapy.
And yes there are all kinds of problems with our current therapy ideas. But we are learning more and adapting. Unless you are somebody like Tom Cruise or a Scientologist, then don't dismiss the need for those people to prescribe drugs.
Oh, and if you could please, link to a study showing how many of those therapists actually get any sort of kickback from the pharmaceutical companies please. I see all kinds of people making claims like this. Yet, if it were half as true as seems to be accepted, then why does it take so many doctors years to pay off their student loans?
"I admit the psychology is a rather soft science, but it is a science in that it self corrects."
which is fine.
I'd be much happier if they were not allowed extra-judicial extra-legal powers over other people's lives based on findings which will be reversed in 20 years.
"Homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness." How many people will be tortured before the basis is invalidated? It took 20 years, and how many people were tortured before it was changed.
Aspergers is no longer a mental illness either.
What has the SYSTEM done as a whole to add oversight to prevent abuse, and malaciously adding "mental diseases" for social, economic, and political reasons?
"I mean think about it. The government is watching the Tea Party. It was almost listed as a terrorist organization. How did they come to that conclusion?"
Democrats who are affraid of loosing elections pulled strings in politics.... Despite the noise, the Tea Party is fairly harmless.
"How many of the Occupiers got put on a watch list when they were actively calling for the destruction of the system?" Its called free speech. Occupy has maintained its stance as completely pacifist. Its not illegal to disagree with, or advocate the abandonment of the current political/economic/social systems. Traditionally the line has been draw when you advocated "Violent Overthrow", of the government. No one in Occupy has called for the violent overthrow of the government.
Again more mainstream politicians. trying to silence dissent before it comes competition.
But your right, its more proof we are living in a quasi-police state, and we really don't have any of the freedoms we were told we do. Thats my point.
We also have a government run list of people who are not allowed to fly. A government run list of people scheduled for assassination, I wouldn't be suprised if the Hoover era "Security" and "Reserve" lists have been silently re-instated, of people to be arrested if a national disaster ever happened who are illegally monitored at all times.
Yes, this so called "mental health" is one last item on how we are being stripped of our liberties and freedoms, for our "own protections".
Wait, did I just get put on a list for arguing for my rights and freedoms?
Because in the past criticizing the mental health system has gotten you labelled as "mentally ill".
Do biologists ever accuse creationists of being "less evolved"?
"Unless you are somebody like Tom Cruise or a Scientologist, then don't dismiss the need for those people to prescribe drugs."
That sir, is an ad hominem. "Unless your a fascist like Mussolini you shouldn't care about trains running on time. "
I'm not completely against the idea of prescribing drugs, or people seeing shrinks.
I AM completely against the idea that
1. Anyone could be involtarly comitted or incarcerated in ANY institution, be it prison, mental facility, or anything else they thing of(like gitmo), without a trial by jury, without right to apeal, and without the right to an attorney.
I am also against the idea that a jury could force someone into a "hospital" against their will. I am for the ability of a prisoner to REQUEST the right to be confined on a mental health ward instead of prison, but only at his request. I also give him the same right to sign himself out at any time, and be sent back to regular prison.
2. The idea that psychologists/psyciatrists can testify as expert witnesses, or their findings can be held on the same level of truth of credibility as biology, physics, engineering, or ballistics.
3. Vast legal oversight of therapists, dangerous narcotics, and how they treat their "patients", and outside legal oversight of those being forced on dangerous chemcials.
4. Anyone being put on any drugs against their will.
Its not about "therapy", its about power, control, and money.
" Yet, if it were half as true as seems to be accepted, then why does it take so many doctors years to pay off their student loans?"
the fact they take many years to pay back their student loans is
TheLiarWolframFeatured By OwnerDec 19, 2012Student Filmographer
Over 50% of all people shot by police officers were mentally ill. The problem is we don't treat these people, and they're afraid to seek treatment in a world where the mentally ill are stigmatized. Getting treatment means you're crazy in this day and age, which makes me sick. Mental illness is no different than any other illness--it just affects the brain.
I also think nowadays doctors might diagnos too soon.
Maybe its me but it just seems any child with any sort of abnormalty or is a little different has to be labeled right away. You can't be a loner or a weird kid anymore without having some mental disorder stigma.
We won our nation in fire and blood from the worlds super power.
We fought for and freed an enslaved people officially ending slavery.
We civilized a untamed land.
We connected two oceans by means of the intercontenantal railroad.
We fought and freed a people from certin doom at the hands of phycopathic nuts in two continants.
We landed men on the moon and brought them home safely.
Why when we have done all of this in two hundred years, can we not provide some form of mental help for all who needs it?
When compared to our forefathers, I believe providing mental help to the needy would be the next logical step for our greatest challenge as a nation... Maybe the single most important challenge is the repair of and understanding of the human mind.
I don't even live in America and I know the history of the continent better than some of the people who live there. I guess they mostly want to keep quiet about the real origins of the country so they don't teach it in schools? But then, that's the same in pretty much every country, they always make it look like "we were the heroes and the others were the bad guys" when they teach history in schools.
Lol. If by the native Americans you call civilized... Then sure.
The native Americans slaughtered each other all the time. They held slaves and with the exception of a few tribes generally saw no problem with breaking deals and still expecting you to live up to your own end of the deal.
They had no farm land, mostly lived as nomadic tribes and generally speaking couldn't hold onto land. Advancement of technology requires the land to be settled, farm lands plowed and cities erected.
Nomadic tribes cannot exist side by side with the power that stable communities such as cities and farmed lands produce. Let alone the fact that nomadic tribes stole cattle and pillaged farmed food....
That is simply how a nomadic people survive. This is why nomadic people's aren't welcomed in civilized lands, just ask the French.
The Olmec and Mayans were wiped out long before the US was created and my original statement specifically refereed to the time between the US breaking away from England and today.
As maize was created by the Olmec and Mayans, the native Americans don't get the credit. Further most of the Native Americans in the US were the refugees from the fallen empires that were the Olmec and Mayans.
Except that the Zuni, Hopi, and Pueblo would have been maize farmers, along with a majority of Alongquian speakers in New England and a lot of the people in between. Many of these people also knew how to cultivate squash and beans. How is this not agriculture?
Further most of the Native Americans in the US were the refugees from the fallen empires that were the Olmec and Mayans.
I can't tell if you are trolling or if you are just that stupid.