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December 12, 2012
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California? What are you doing? California? No, stop that!

:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Recently this year, a judge in Santa Monica ruled that the display of a Nativity Scene (for those who may not know, it's the manger setting with baby Jesus you see every year.) was unconstitutional and violated the Separation of Church and State (again, kinda weird considering the scene was actually BESIDE a church yard, on their property of course.) and hereby had it removed.

This sparked a lot of controversy over the period of time, but those crafty Christians came up with a loophole and decided to act out the Nativity Scene every night until December 23rd.

Seriously, what the actual fuck? First off, this doesn't violate anything as the scene was technically on church property, therefore it wasn't breaking any laws. Second, seriously! Not to mention, this whole thing is just stupid.

And I mean this is stupid on both parts.

Atheists, we get that you don't acknowledge our holiday traditions, and that's fine. Just let us think what we think, and let's get along during a time that's supposed to be about togetherness. A model of a Christian setting isn't going to cause anyone any harm unless you walk into it or something.

Christians, don't go out there in robes and act out the scene every night. That's just silly. Not to mention that this is California, where are you going to find a virgin that's not younger than 12?

tl;dr. Leave the holiday season be, and just get on with your lives.
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Devious Comments

:iconpatches67:
Patches67 Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Oh let'em have their little pagan-style rituals. When they get around to sacrficing a goat then slap a bi-law violation on their ass.
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:iconshidaku:
Shidaku Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012
You're missing some parts of the issue.

Spaces in the park are for sale for whoever wants to buy them to set up any sort of display for Christmas. The Atheist group in question wanted to make a point and bought 18/21 spaces, planning to leave them totally empty, again to make their point. The church group that normally does the same thing got pissed and asked the went to the City, demanding the city refund the money and open the bidding again(so that they could buy all the spaced). The City refused. The Christian group took the issue to court claiming the Athiests were jerks for what they did. The Court found that both sides were just incessant crybabies that this year nobody gets to put anything on display, refunded their money, and closed the park to displays.

So yeah, the Atheist group played the game and won, and the Christian groups were sore losers and cost everyone everything.
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:iconscottahemi:
ScottaHemi Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
first off that is not unconstitutional D: bias judge is bias.

and yes, people are being stupid about this war on christmas and butt hurt athiests and such...
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:icontrorbes:
Trorbes Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
Why are Christians never satisfied that they are already the largest, most powerful religion in the US with significant implicit power over law and culture? Christmas is already recognized secularly as a holiday, one so heavily ingrained into our society it consumes our lifestyles for a quarter of the year, to the point where other religions' holidays aren't even recognized unless they fall within the 'holiday season.' But no, if they can't get special privileges and display their symbols in public spaces, they're being 'oppressed.'
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist
How dare they have special privileges of setting up a display on their property!
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:icontrorbes:
Trorbes Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
From what I'm hearing, it wasn't their property, it was public property.
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist
I'm seeing that now. The OP was very misleading.
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:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Yeah I actually just saw that myself after looking further into it. I was under the impression it was near church property or on it.
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist
Live and learn.
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:iconsvataben:
Svataben Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Please, for the love of anything at all, provide links to your source, so we can go look for ourselves and not just rely on your interpretation.

Sloppy, sloppy posting.
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:iconstaple-salad:
staple-salad Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
From what I'd heard, the scene was put up in a public park, which then does make it an issue. If it was on a church's property then there isn't an issue.

I'm agnostic and I don't really care if some people put up a Nativity scene, but if there were suddenly religious iconography everywhere I went I'd have a problem, especially if it was exclusively Christian (symbols that are just of a holiday, like colored eggs, decorated trees, etc. I don't care about since they are more cultural than religious).
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:iconmagusthelofty:
MagusTheLofty Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
Yea I don't get that. If the Nativity scene is on church property then they should have every right to set it. If they set one up at my local grocery store, or at a public school I would understand the fuss.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
It wasn't church property.
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:iconmagusthelofty:
MagusTheLofty Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
I must have misread it. That's what I thought I read.
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:iconblack-allison:
Black-Allison Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
As an atheist I find nothing wrong with the nativity scene or Christmas in general. Church property is church property. I'm just saying if I want to erect a giant statue to Zeus on my front lawn, it's my front lawn.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
Wasn't on private property
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:iconblack-allison:
Black-Allison Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
Then the case in the right of law to kick baby Jesus off the curb.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
In the face!:P

That would be funny if the State demolished the little site with a bulldozer.
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:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Wouldn't mind seeing a statue of Zeus somewhere. Dude was a freaking pimp in Greek mythology
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:iconferricplushy:
FerricPlushy Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
That santa monica case was a nativity scene on the beach, which is government property [link]
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:iconouroboroscobra:
OuroborosCobra Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
It would help if you had links. I find it difficult to believe your claim of "technically on church property," for example.
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:iconstaple-salad:
staple-salad Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
From what I've heard, it was on public property.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
So it's okay for Christians to force their views on non-Christians, via the law (outlawing pornography, not allowing gay marriage, etc etc etc) but it's wrong for non-Christians to do it.


Would you please provide a reason why it's okay for Christians to force their views upon others, but not the other way around? I mean, my right to get married to a female partner trumps the right to put on a fucking play, does it not?

Or do you only care when Christians get the short end of the stick?
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist
If it was indeed on their own property then they can put up whatever they want. A barn with some statues of people and animals is hardly shoving views down other people's throats.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
It was public property. Nothing was stopping them from putting it up on private property.
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist
Yeah. The OP was way off base...being this misleading is almost lying IMO.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
I've never even seen a naivety scene on public property,(I've seen them in/ near churches, in/near shopping centres and in/near businesses)... I've yet to see a naivety set up in the middle of a park or a courtyard, etc etc etc. to be quite honest. It might be different in America, but I doubt it.

This is why I think that they are making a mountain out of a molehill. Is the law wrong? yes. Is it highly heinous? No, it's more of a minor inconvenience.
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist
I've lived in a few different states and have never seen one displayed in a park. Saw one in a school once but mostly just in churches. Maybe it's a local community thing?

I think it'd be cool to see exhibits from other religions too. I like learning about different religions and cultures.

I agree they're over reacting. From what I've read they're not getting picked on but the ban is for everyone.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
public Schools could be a grey area, I don't know if it counts as public or private property. Either way, if the school community is fine with it, it's 100% fine. IMO

I myself have nothing against seeing naivety scenes. Except for the one outside the old-age home near my house... god, that is one ugly painting :stare:

So it's a 'lets be killjoys and destroy everyone's fun,' not 'CHRISTIANS ARE BEING OPRESSSEDDD!!!!!' law?

I don't know if I want to say that makes the law better, because it's not bigoted, if it's worse, because it is infringing on everyone. :lol:

Either way, it makes the thread much worse than it originally was!
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
It wasn't church property
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist
Learned that after reading some comments. The OP was way off base.
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
What does Christmas have to do with gay marriage? And some atheists shove their beliefs down other people's throats, too. [link]

There are atheistic jerks and there are religious jerks.
There are kind atheists and there are kind religious people.

CapicÚ?
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Can you really not work it out? Christians cry when others force their religion upon them, yet the majority of them are okay with forcing their religion on others.

Ergo, they are hypocrites.
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
And other groups don't do the same thing? Nobody.

...You sure about that?
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Could you show me a war that was fought in the name of Atheism?
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
...Could you show me your Christmas list? :roll:

Does the 2-part South Park episode "Go God Go" count? If not, then no, there has not been a war fought in the name of atheism- unless you count groups of people whining on the internet.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Seriously? No one is being allowed to put up decorations on public property. NO ONE. Not Christians. Not Atheists. Not Kopimists or Satanists or followers of the flying spaghetti monster.

Would you like to tell me again how Christianity is being attacked? Oh, wait, that's right. Christianity is not being attacked, this is just a fucking pity party.

But hey, it's the atheists whining. :roll:
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
:icondarthvaderplz::iconsaysplz: The butthurt is strong with this one.

What part of "it's a church" don't you understand? You're an atheist who claims to have freed her mind of religion, yet you're complaining that Christians set up a nativity scene at their church. Last time I checked, they are allowed to do that. Why do you even care??
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(1 Reply)
:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
So, Atheists haven't killed people in the name of their god, got it.
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
They don't have one, genius.
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(1 Reply)
:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Lol, very well said
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
You're too kind. :bow:
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:iconstaple-salad:
staple-salad Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
Christmas itself doesn't have anything to do with marriage equality, however the mindset of "if I can't display things in this public space where other religions are equally barred from doing so, then I'm being persecuted!" is the same argument that a particularly vocal group of American Christians like to make about everything (eg "Gay marriage is wrong, if gays are allowed to be people, I'm being persecuted!", "if the 10 Commandments aren't displayed in the courthouse, I'm being persecuted!" etc).

Also, you example of "atheist jerks" is entirely different. You can say all you want, Christians are allowed to not say nice things about atheists and to not agree. The issue we see most often is that religious people, primarily Christians, try to legislate that Christians are allowed religious freedom AND NOBODY ELSE.
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:iconcosmic--chaos:
Cosmic--Chaos Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Wait, you're saying that a Christian church can't display something Christmas related on their property just because of a few bible-thumpers?

I am not defending an intolerant person's wrongful actions when/if they use the "Christianity is being persecuted argument". I'm simply pointing out that there can be good and bad people in any group.
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:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
I care about both. Why are you bringing that up? True, a lot of people try to use religion (mainly Christianity) to justify bending laws to their will, but that's not the issue here.

The issue is that a 60 year old scene near a sidewalk is apparently more offensive than some of the other stuff that goes on in L.A.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
The issue here is Christians are getting a taste of their own medicine.
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:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Do you really want to stoop to their level, or be the better person?
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Yes, because making Christians have nativity plays on private property, instead of public property is exactly the same issue. It's not like it's a lot minor than what Christians do, or anything.

I am finding very hard to care over a little stupid law. No one is stopping them from having nativity scenes. All they have to do is put it on private property. Hell, I've never even seen a naivety scene on anything but private property. Inside churches and church property. Inside shopping centres and shopping centre property. Inside businesses and business property.

That's all still legal.

So, they can't put it up in public parks and other public places. Is that really that annoying? It's a stupid law, but it's hardly that oppressive.
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:iconkinoc-kun:
Kinoc-Kun Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Not annoying, just kinda dumb. The site wasn't harming anyone, and the Nativity is a big part of Christmas tradition for a lot of people.

I don't freak when I see a Star of David, nor a giant effigy of Santa. Why people think "holy crap, Jesus! This is ignorant and offensive!" is beyond me when in the West Coast area, separation of church and state should be the LEAST controversial thing going on.
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Those things all banned too.
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