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December 4, 2012
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Antarctic ice

:iconmiletich2:
miletich2 Featured By Owner Dec 4, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I can't believe I've been fooled by rumors that the Antarctic ice is growing when it's actually melting as well as Greenland's ice.

Nobody say Antarctica is growing! It's MELTING! And here's proof! [link]

On second thought, go ahead and say otherwise. If you can prove Antarctica is "growing", post here.
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:iconmaddmatt:
maddmatt Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012
[link]

I have no idea why there would be confusion. Science is in complete agreement on these things.
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:icondorsaispirit:
Dorsaispirit Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
As I have pointed out to other people in other threads about global warming, the ice sheets and glaciers have been shrinking/retreating since the end of the last ice age. The ice age that nearly wiped mankind out. So that indicates that it is a natural occurrence.

The question that many are asking is how much we can influence this warming. Obviously we do have an impact on the climate, but nobody has every really settled if we ca affect it on a global scale. I agree that we can, but can we affect it to the extent that many alarmists, such as yourself, seem to claim. Probably, but you aren't really doing your cause by running around like chicken little. So instead of simply screaming and yelling at people, proposed solutions.

Any solutions that are proposed need to take into account the impact on peoples quality of life. For instance, if we shut down all fossil fuel power plants in the U.S., we would lose the ability to communicate as freely and openly as we do now. Given that those types of power plants account for at least 70% of current power, and that all the green and renewable sources aren't capable of taking up that demand, what do you think would happen to our country? Or more personally, do you think you could live without your computer, cell phone, or the internet? I doubt it. I can as I grew up before these things were as mainstream as they are now.

So yes, we should be concerned about the way we are impacting the climate, but how much of an impact will we be able to make if the Earth is on a natural warming cycle? We can probably accelerate it, but I really doubt we can stop, prevent, or reverse said cycle.
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:iconthespiderfrommars:
TheSpiderFromMars Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
So, you claim this global warming is "natural". Well, tell you what, it's not. If we continue destroying (yes, because that's what we're doing: destroying) our climate like this, the average temperature on Earth will rise with 4 degrees celcius in just a few decades time. Doesn't sound much, but it is. WAY to much. If this were to happen under "natural" circumstances, it would take thousands of years. So there you go, it IS our fault that we're heading in this direction. This is an extremely serious matter, and I'm getting pretty anxious about it. When I get kids, I don't want them to grow up in a screwed up, overheated world. No thank you. And I'm willing to take some "sacrifices" if it benefits our future. Actually, the worst cause of global warming is the meat transports and meat industry, so if we all ate less meat, and less groceries that's been transported half across the globe, it would make quite a difference. And it's not too hard to do, right? I mean, if you long for burgers och mince, you can always buy quorn or soy alternatives (I know soy isn't the best option, but it's BETTER for sure). It's really tasty, trust me.
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:icondorsaispirit:
Dorsaispirit Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
When I say the earth is naturally warming, I am speaking honestly. That is what it took to actually end the ice age. And remember, we number much less than one million in then entire planet. We were burning wood and dung for our fires. I really doubt that us burning that much warmed the Earth enough to melt the glaciers that covered the North American continent down to Panama.

Look here: <[link]> and notice that this happened from 110,000 to 10,000 years ago. So yes, it did, is and will take thousands of years during the natural cycles of the planet. Climatologists will agree that this occurs.

As I have said in response to others, we probably are helping to accelerate this warming cycle. The thing is, this warming trend would have happened regardless of if we were here or not. It happened before, during, and after the dinosaurs. The Carboniferous period was actually much warmer than it is right now. There was very little carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, but there were no ice caps. Insects were the highest form of life on the planet. Think spiders with bodies, not including legs, feet in diameter. Millipedes four to six feet long. So right there in the fossil record, we have evidence that the Earth does go through warming and cooling cycles.

I do not want any children I have to grow up in a very bad and toxic world either. I am all for being responsible with how in affect our environment. However, I accept that there are somethings that we will more than likely never be able to control. The natural cycles of a planet being one of them. Give us a couple of thousand years more, and we might have the technology to control the climate the way you think we can right now. But until then, you are talking in terms of science fiction. I am talking reality, and asking how much we can influence, not control.
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:iconthespiderfrommars:
TheSpiderFromMars Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I don't think we have a couple of years time to come up with a solution. This fast increase of the temperature is NOT good. Sure, I know that the world is going in and out of warmer and cooler cycles, but what I stated above is that this time it goes too fast. And that is not natural. And the rapid speed is caused by us humans, nothing else. Usually, this takes time. Lots of time. The dinosaurs didn't come to exist over a night. I can't understand why people don't see how such a grave and alarming issue this really is. That some just ignore it and pretend it's not there.
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:icondorsaispirit:
Dorsaispirit Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, as I greed with you, we are accelerating the warming this cycle. But there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that we can do to stop the warming. We can reduce or eliminate our contribution to it, but we lack the technology to actually reverse it. We can either be responsible beings and not soil our nest, but to act like we can take the temperature down to what it was a century ago. No. That is out of both our understanding and capabilities.

So instead of being full of hatred towards those that are either in denial, have not heard of the gravity of the problem, or even heard of the problem, why not help find a way to move us to be sustainable? That is the thing that has annoyed me the most in these threads.

The call to be sustainable, but without understanding what it may take. Much less how much time it may take. I've been advocating replacing coal and gas power plants with nuclear until we have the green energy replacements. With the new designs we will have almost zero radioactive waste to worry about. Just lumps of heavy dense metals that can be used for balance weights on aircraft or munitions. Unfortunately, very few environmentalists will agree that this is a viable option.

I even had one person telling me we should start building more homes out of steel so we can stop logging. They didn't understand that mining, refining, shaping, and constructing the steel home will cause far more CO2 release than the act of logging the same about of timber ever will. Much less that a properly managed forest in healthier and a renewable resource.

I am trying to find solutions that can allow to continue to enjoy our lives the we are today. I want to find a way that will allow us to keep our games, computers, televisions, phones, and the internet. But until you are willing to speak in those terms, and have it be affordable by the general masses, green and renewable energy sources have no chance of wide adoption.

So, do not get after me for pointing out the the Earth is in a natural warming cycle. I am well aware that it is warming faster than it ever has, and that this accelerated rate can be traced back to the industrial revolution. I do think we should be doing all we can to minimize our impact on the global climate. But please, talk to me in what we are actually able to do.

And remember, even if Europe and the U.S. really clean it up, there are still all those other countries that just do not care. How much can we really force them to clean up without taking them over?
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:iconpuppy-dangerous:
puppy-dangerous Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
Uh, what rumors? What are you talking about? Nobody says they are getting larger. I want proof that these RUMORS exist.

And chill out. It hasn't always been ice up there. The earth goes through natural warming and cooling cycles whether we are interfering or not. Earth gets warm, arctic ice melts, water level rises, inland seas form, earth starts to cool down, inland seas recede, ice caps freeze, earth freezes, earth starts to warm up, ice starts to melt....

It's OK.
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:icontrorbes:
Trorbes Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012
By that reasoning, we shouldn't care about hurricanes, droughts, or wildfires; they are, after all, natural phenomena.
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:iconpuppy-dangerous:
puppy-dangerous Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
'Care' in what way?

Do I want to STOP storms and natural disasters? NO, because they are a natural part of the planet. If you have an active climate, you're going to have storms, fires, earthquakes, etc- it's part of a living planet. If you DON'T have all of that, your environment is stagnant.

Stop up a stream running into a pool and the water gets all still and peaceful- then all the fish die from lack of oxygen, the pool fills up with rotted plant matter with nothing to eat it, pretty soon it's just a nasty puddle of muck.

That doesn't mean we can't try to predict them and minimize damage to people, make sure our buildings and etc are prepared to withstand them, or avoid areas that are storm prone.

Is the planet getting warmer? Sure. What does that mean? We need to stop sitting around crying about it and figure out the best way to ADAPT to the changing climate.

Like we ALWAYS do. It's what we DO. It's the ONLY thing we do. We adapt.

Humans like to pick out the WORST place we can find and set up camp there. Frozen tundra? NO problem! Vast desert? Yay, lets build a sand castle.

Will SOME people die when the sea level rises again? Sure. Will some places that are 'good' to live not be good any more? Sure.

Is that the end of all life, or even just HUMAN life?

NO. At the worst it drops the population way down. Which makes the gene pool narrower, which encourages mutation, which results in survival of the fittest and the next branch in human evolution.
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:iconprincess-amy:
Princess-Amy Featured By Owner Dec 5, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Current survery indicate that the main antarctic ice sheet is actually gaining mass, but the smallwe west antarctic ice sheet is beginning to melt just lke the greenland sheet.
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