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November 24, 2012
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Electronic surveillance for students?

:icondoctorv23:
DoctorV23 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
This in a school in Texas: [link] but with potentially far-reaching implications. The student objected on religious grounds, although that wouldn't have occurred to me -more an ethical and legal question.
Big Brother? Your thoughts...
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Devious Comments

:iconscnal:
Scnal Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I actually don't see what's the big deal. It can't tell what you're doing, just at best tell the location (I wouldn't be surprised if they could only tell which reader you're closest to, not even in which direction or how far away). They're children at school where they should be at specific places anyway (or going to somewhere else with explicit permission by their teacher). Odds are they won't even bother checking to see who's where unless something serious that they need to investigate happens. Camera surveillance is a lot worse than this, and it's pretty common yet few people have a problem with that (and even less care enough to protest or sue them for having cameras).

That said, I do think that it's a waste of time and money, and RFID tags aren't secure enough when it comes to any form of personal identification.
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:iconmgonzales041090:
mgonzales041090 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
God I'm proud of Texas. It's just the people who disappoint me.
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:iconmachine-intellectual:
Machine-Intellectual Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Big brother is right, it's a total invasion of privacy. It's starts with this and ends up with cameras on every street corner watching everything we do, no one's safe.
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Ah, Texas. I'm glad I left the education system right before it went HIAB.
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:icontristancody:
TristanCody Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Writer
I disagree with this. I do not believe, nor ever have, advocate surveillance. I do not want to see children raised in a police state.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
I thought this would be about surveillance that the students would get to use.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
we should stop treating children like cattle.

All this is doing is preparing them for life in a police state.
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:icontimlavey:
TimLavey Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
In order to not only get an idea, but an exact number, of how many students attend classes the teachers at my school have come up with this ingenious method of checking all attending students on a piece of paper, but I guess tracking devices works too.
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:iconorangekrissy:
OrangeKrissy Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
They already have that in a way. Haven't you ever watched Person of Interest on cable or TV?
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:iconmondu:
mondu Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Heh, good thinking on her part. "Mark of the Beast," indeed. I hope she wins.

Tracking -- invasion of privacy.
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
I wouldn't really care if everybody had a GPS transmitter placed at birth.
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:icondelusionalhamster:
delusionalHamster Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
then you're not very smart.
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
If you say so buddy.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
He is correct you are not very smart. The main reason this stuff should be opposed is because the average person commits 3 felonies a day. [link]

If the government had absolute knowledge of everything you ever did then chances are they could throw you in jail for the rest of your life on something or another. Understand that there is no such thing as an innocent person in the eyes of the government.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
you should also add, that with this, we throw out all "rule of law", and the only people who would be prosecuted, are the people who the government, and its at the time sponsors don't like.

Only some people would have privacy, and only those with money to buy it, or favor enough to beg for it will get it.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Either way it is not a world I want to live in.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
me niether.
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
While I don't live in the US I think that's an interesting book regardless. Nobody ever learned anything from a one lined insult though, do you presume that I'm so closed-minded that I've no interest in any points someone else makes, on the contrary it's why I like to discuss these things
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
If you are open to changing your views then you are smarter than the one lined insult. I always provide some type of link or evidence for what I say just in case one is open minded. Consider these surveillance laws carefully with that book in mind. I will also add in this quote from Ayn Rand:

"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”

― Atlas Shrugged
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:iconwitwitch:
witwitch Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Writer
Some people would. But if it is at birth, we can't really make it a choice, can we?
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
I was merely highlighting my stance on the subject of civilian surveillance and tracking.
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:iconwitwitch:
witwitch Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Writer
That was fairly obvious from your previous statement.
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
Then perhaps I'm missing the point of your followup, I mentioned nothing of choice at all.
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:iconwitwitch:
witwitch Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Writer
No, you didn't. You said you wouldn't mind if everyone was chipped at birth.

I'm trying to make you wonder whether you would care or not if this was done against the will of others--that is, if you care or not about people being violated against their will.
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
Also back to the thing about being violated against their will but off-topic, what's your stance on circumcision? I'm just curious since that's a fairly common practice I disagree with in which choice is also removed at birth, yet so many people are okay with it.
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:iconwitwitch:
witwitch Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Writer
I think it should be a choice left up to the owner of the particular penis in question.
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:iconendeavor-to-freefall:
I don't view it as a violation, why does it matter if somebody knows your location?
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:icondavidfielding3832:
davidfielding3832 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Writer
Because some people value personal privacy, and therefore liberty, more than you.
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(2 Replies)
:iconwitwitch:
witwitch Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Writer
Because this is a tool that can be very easily misused by corrupt governments.

Let's pretend the current government is "good", and they start the whole chip thing. Well, in 50 or 100 years, they'll probably still be keeping track of people somehow, but there's no telling whether the government will still be "good" or not. They could use this type of technology to locate and kill off anyone who wants to protest the new dictatorship or whatever.

Basically, this type of system is ripe for abuse. People have a right to privacy and a right to their own bodies. The government tagging us would be like the government owning us. We own the government. The government doesn't own us. That's a very important principle.

Sure, it could help locate a missing child, but it also poses terrible threats to our rights and freedoms.
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(1 Reply)
:icondoctorv23:
DoctorV23 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Nah, too expensive. Handcuffs maybe.:P
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:iconzigholtul88:
Zigholtul88 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
I'm just about fed up with the amount of bs that's coming out of our government. I'm not normally for threats since I like to see myself as a passive individual, but if I ever have a kid and if anyone tries to pull that crap on them, you'll have to call in the army in order to stop me. People we as a society need to better stand up to these tyrants, these traitors of the Constitution, hell we actually have an obligation to help make this country a better place to live, but barely anyone seems to care anymore. Well if martial law comes into effect, I know who's eyes will be greeted by a fist to the face and that's basically anyone that I feel to be a threat to me or my family.
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:icondoctorv23:
DoctorV23 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Agreed. People tend to believe that they "cant beat the system" and don't even try. This school's program violates Federal as well as Texan law, so there's logically very little chance that they can win.
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:iconzigholtul88:
Zigholtul88 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Even if they still I'm still gonna oppose it, something that would have happened where SOPA/PIPA actually managed to pass. If I have to be taking down by extreme military force for not cooperating with these totalitarian laws and expecting to live my life, sacrificing my individual and free in the progress, then as Dale from the Walking Dead would put it, I don't want to live in that world.
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Evil only exists because good people do nothing to oppose it. If everyone was awake as you to the world would be a much better place to live. School administrators would be afraid of for their lives to even think about tagging peoples children.
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:iconzigholtul88:
Zigholtul88 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Sometimes in life you have to fight for what you believe. If nobody ever thought like, to try and make the world a better place, none of us would even be here.
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:iconhtimsnayr:
HtimsNayr Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Do any of the policy makers in that district realize what is wrong with having state-funded institutions tag and track citizens?

Why do attendance sheets not suffice?
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:icondoctorv23:
DoctorV23 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Exactly. They're much more reliable too. It's one thing to verify if someone shows up for class and quite another to track them.
Technology-wise, the tracking device idea seems borrowed from the way shops tag their merchandise to prevent theft. (I've seen devices like the one pictured in the article on music CD's).
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:icondefense2:
defense2 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
I must say that I am against this idea. Had I been forced to use said tag... It would be crushed, microwaved and destroyed daily.... By mistake of course.

However her mark of the beast issue with it should be tossed out as religion should stop at the house and the church.
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:iconzigholtul88:
Zigholtul88 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Nobody should have to be forced to be tagged like cattle. Folks if this ever passes, DO NOT submit, under any circumstances to their will. They cannot arrest or shoot all of us without negative consequences. Our government was originally meant to be for the people, not against it. Look at where we're at now?
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:icondefense2:
defense2 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Why would you act like this?

How old are you? 12? No one is going to systematically tag everyone and if they did they woukdnt shoot those that refused.
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:iconzigholtul88:
Zigholtul88 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
What makes you so positive that they wouldn't retaliate with deadly force? There's far much too police and military corruption going on and it continues to get worse.
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:icondefense2:
defense2 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Because this isn't a video game and if you think that we have more corruption in our police and military today, vs 100+ years ago, you need to open a few books and study history.

Our military and police haven't been more open and clean from corruption than they are today.

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:iconbadgercheese1994:
Badgercheese1994 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student General Artist
That is true. It was much more corrupt in the 20 and 40s when the mafias ruled in the north, as well as when the KKK ruled in the South.
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:icondefense2:
defense2 Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2012
Businessmen ruled both the north and south. They used the mafia and the KKK as the public face so to keep their hands clean of the true face of war.
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:iconzcochrane:
ZCochrane Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Student Photographer
That's a really scary violation of privacy. Expelling students for not participating? Hell no. The people who should be removed from their position in the school are the ones who thought "I liked 1984. We should have something like that here".
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:iconnovuso:
Novuso Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
It is another completely absurd law. If the courts had any sense it would be tossed out on common law grounds. Common law states that if there is no injured party than no law regardless of jurisdiction can be prosecuted. This goes back to the Magna Carta of 1215 and was put in place so Kings, Nobles, and Sheriffs could not oppress the peasants for frivolous reasons.

Hopefully the parents wake up and realize homeschooling is better in the long run anyway.
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:icondoctorv23:
DoctorV23 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Not really a law, in fact it's a violation of Federal law which requires a court order based on probable cause: [link]
It also violates Texas Penal code: [link]
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:icondivine--apathia:
divine--apathia Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Home schooling really is only successful when the parents are highly educated. I don't know why people think that it's the be all and end all. I know adults who are unable to spell simple words like 'tomorrow' or 'maybe'. How, exactly, could they teach a child, when they don't even have a grasp upon spelling? (let alone things like childhood ecology and educational psychology? )

Homeschooling is good, but it's not this amazing thing everyone makes it out to be ...
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:iconpakaku:
Pakaku Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012
Here's an easy and tech-free way to track classroom attendance: use attendance sheets like every other school on the planet :B
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:icondavidfielding3832:
davidfielding3832 Featured By Owner Nov 24, 2012  Professional Writer
Ours were fed into a putah, then stored on a local network that we may or may not have gained access to. Computers never lie.
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