"Why do we continue to allow this blatantly racist congressional caucus to exist?"
So is a Libertarian proposing that we ban the formation of ethnically based caucuses? That seems inconsistent with Libertarian philosophy. Regardless of whether they are really racists or not, surely we have to let them have the right to form a group...? They are then free to marginalize themselves.
I'm not proposing we ban ethnically-based caucuses. I'm proposing we make it politically costly to be a part of them. No congressperson should be able to join a blatantly racist caucus without receiving a heaping of scorn.
The fact that people turn a blind eye to these racist caucuses, but would most certainly cry racism if a similar caucus were formed for whites is a clear indication of the inherent anti-white racism that persists in the subtexts of our society. Our country is descending into pure tribalism.
"...we make it politically costly to be a part of them." Can't we do that already? Just by voting? I guess I'm trying to figure out what type of change you are advocating. Or are you just trying to get people to understand that caucuses based on ethnicity are divisive forces?
Yes, exactly. I'm advocating that people actually consider this factor when they vote, and drop the racial double-standard in how they view these sorts of organizations. Membership in the Congressional Black Caucus should lose a candidate just as many votes as would membership in a Congressional White Caucus, if it existed.
lol Democrats rushed to conduct conference calls over this new development worried about the consequences of continuing to use the racist English language. Some called for staffing the Democratic Party entirely with illiterates, while others argued that such a measure would be entirely redundant.
I think the current members of the CBC are exactly the sort of people you would expect to gravitate towards that sort of racially-defined organization.
The very existence of the CBC is racially discriminatory, and its operations carry out a severe disservice to this nation by promoting race-based policy, making it harder and harder for the law to be blind to the color of the people it is governing.
Do you feel the same way about all caucuses that pursue common legislative objectives based on ethnicity, such as the Hispanic Caucus, the Asian Pacific American Caucus, the Czech Caucus, Friends of Norway Caucus, Friends of Switzerland Caucus, etc.?
Depends on the ideology. I think any caucus based in identity politics would be just as harmful to the country. Imagine if there were a "Catholic Caucus," or an "Apple-Users Caucus." What purpose does that sort of caucus serve except to send identity groups into legislative war with each other?
On the other hand, caucuses like the Progressive Caucus and the Liberty Caucus (no matter how much you agree or disagree with the goals of each one) actually seek to promote ideologies which could legitimately govern the country without merely elevating one group of citizens over all the others.
No, it's a bad thing because they're defining themselves according to their race, and promoting race-based policy. If there were a Congressional White Caucus, you would acknowledge the inherent racism of that sort of organization. Yet, you ignore the racism when it promotes other races.
Your response perfectly illustrates the implicit anti-white racism that has invaded American popular culture and "common sense."
Mainly because many whites experience the same problems with poverty, lack of access to good education, lack of access to good paying jobs, lack of access to non-crappy housing, lack of access to things that make for a non-crappy life in general, basically, that black people and other minority races do, so there aren't any white-only problems to begin with, and conversely the problems white people have are genuinely universal problems.
But good luck getting the Social Justice crowd to accept that, in their bubble where all whites lead privileged lives of ease.
From what I've seen them speak out on, it seems like they spend their time talking about how to best portray Republicans as racists, defend corrupt politicians who happen to be black, promote affirmative action, encourage government spending in urban areas, and promote Christian values in the Democratic Party.
Because when DEMOCRAT KKK do it, it's racist. When Michael Bay makes a movie with stereotypes, it's racist. When someone suggest serving fried chicken at a picnic where black folks are expected to show up, it's racist. When you say you disagree with Barack Obama's inept policies, it's racist.
But making a congressional caucus based upon race with the exclusion of all others (With an emphasis on white) and talking about how much better their race is than all the others because *Insert warped reasoning here* is not only not racist, but is a gleaming beacon of equality, healing, racial tolerance and mending of burned bridges.
Speaking of bridges, if you believe that, I've got one for sale.
"We'd be living in a color-blind society if it weren't for those racist minorities!"
There are numerous hinderances to racial equality institutionalized in our White-dominated society. I mean, do politicians ever talk about how to capture the 'White vote'? Do we see lead roles in media regularly going to actors without light skin? Are you going to blame this on Blacks, too?
It is utterly hypocritical to cry about racism while accusing black people of having a racially-motivated agenda.
Also, a couple of things you said reek of the new racism that our society has embraced.
"White-dominated society"? Have you noticed that the most powerful man in the world right now is not white? Have you noticed that there are no laws providing special privileges to whites, yet such laws are plentiful for those who simply inherited a darker shade of skin? Have you noticed that whites get called racist merely for criticizing the totalitarian policies of a tyrant, yet racism against us is never declared as such?
All I want is to eliminate these racist institutions and make our society truly colorblind in how it protects the rights of its people. When you lash out against this, it's almost like you want white to become a permanent racial underclass which will never again be guaranteed the same legal rights as every other race.
Yes, yes, the "most powerful man in the world" is not white. Have you seen the racially-charged vitriol your own party slings at him? Do you think people would have spent four god-damned years accusing him of not being an American citizen if he were white?
But this isn't about overt racism, it's about institutional racism; the kind which is so deeply rooted in the minds of those who run the system, a measly 50 years of legal equality is not going to erase it. You go on about how racial minorities are encouraged to separate themselves from society, but what makes you believe the same isn't true about the racial majority? Segregation ended 50 years ago, and not because everyone realized how foolish it was. Do you honestly believe the people who grew up in a world where white people were legally considered 'superior' are going to change their minds. Do you think they won't teach the next generation to think in the same mindset? We live in a society where having a 'black-sounding' name means a statistically-lower hiring rate - and that's with Affirmative Action in place. That does not sound like a society where white people do not have racial privilege.
We should eliminate racist institutions. But we need to be thorough, and target the ones which do not overtly display their racially-motivated agenda. I suggest we start with the GOP.
Oh yeah, "racially-charged vitriol" like "he plays too much golf," and "he's made people so poor that more Americans than ever before are on food stamps." Yeah, I've seen the idiotic charges of Republican racism.
"Have you seen the racially-charged vitriol your own party slings at him? Do you think people would have spent four god-damned years accusing him of not being an American citizen if he were white?"
No, they just would have spent four years attacking him about something else instead.
Let's be real, the vitriol against Obama by the conservatives is fueled by hatred against Democrats/liberals, not hatred against blacks. If they didn't have his skin to pick on, they'd just find something else instead, same as how they also attack every other prominent Democrat out there. Reid, Clinton, Pelosi, Biden, they all get it from the conservatives.
(Not to say that the conservatives don't tend to be racist, but it's pretty clearly liberals they hate the most. You'll note they're a lot nicer to their own party's blacks, Hispanics, women, at least publicly.)
...what? How does that bizarre logic make any sense?
Because, uhm, no, it kind of obviously disproves your argument. Obama is being attacked because he's a Democrat. Like I pointed out in that sentence, if he wasn't black, they still would have attacked him, they just would have dreamt up some other excuse to do so, since it's the fact that he's a Democrat that's the actual problem. His skin color provides a convenient excuse, but is not the motivation. Which disproves your argument.
The only way your argument would be correct is if they attacked him solely because he was black, and would have not attacked him at all if he had been white. All evidence highly suggests that wouldn't be the case, since all other prominent Democrats also get equally attacked even if they're white. They just obviously use excuses other than race for said attacks. They care about attacking and discrediting liberals, not about whatever excuse they happen to be using for a given liberal.
Unlikely, since, as I already pointed out, Republicans don't engage in this behavior against "their" minority members.
And I like I also already pointed out, Republicans do have racist tendencies, but it's incorrect to blame their attacks on Obama on the fact that he's black. Dangerously incorrect, in fact, as it ruins our attempt to address the matter properly.
Pretending everything's all about race (or sexism or whatever) just lets all the other equally dangerous factors go unaddressed. Right now the Republicans' irrational hatred of Democrats is more damaging to our country's functioning than their racist tendencies. Since as bad as their racist tendencies are, they're not what's keeping our economy fucked up due to their irrational refusal to help the Democrats do anything to fix it.
So trying to pretend this is about Obama being black, versus actually just about Obama being a Democrat, keeps us from being able to fix things as effectively.
I can only name a relative few movies where the lead role is black and doesn't talk about how much being black sucks because of whatever reason. Amos and Andrew? The underlying message is 'Rich people suck and are so racist they think black people can't be wealthy.'
You look at a lot of previews and it's got the emotional music and slowshots of black folks looking depressed, then low and behold, they get happy near the end because they met other people who are black and they can all be black together, yay!
Seriously... They keep on trying to pile on the guilt as if any white person today owes them anything. If they were dicks during the segregational laws that FDR laid down towards black people, then they owe them a deep apology and if not that, then at least common human courtesy.
But not a man or woman alive in America (With the exception of truly vile criminal activity) is a slave owner. Nor were any of our fathers or mothers.
We don't owe them a thing...
... except for common human courtesy, decency and civilized behavior, as is due anyone, regardless of skin color. If someone's a dick, they're a dick. If someone's a good egg, they're a good egg.
But suuuure, if you think the black demographic is so helpless, so dumb and mal-informed, then go right ahead and support the black congressional caucus that continues to tell black folks that whitey is out to get them and to be defensive about it.
Frankly this whole 'race' business is stupid. We're the human race. In all it's myriad and lovely colors.
First of all, it always amuses me when white people cry about how angry and bigoted black people are, and then try to appeal to racial harmony. It amuses me because I am white, and do not have to actually deal with you fuckers talking down to me like I'm the problem.
Second, I'm beginning to wonder if you've even seen a black person before, let alone a movie with one. None of that sounds like anything I've ever heard of, and if such movies even exist I have a feeling they're far too obscure for you to have just come across normally. But that's my point, there are very few mainstream movies with a Black cast; they're almost always treated like niche movies for black people.
Third, racism did not end with the Civil War. Slavery ended over a century ago, but the Civil Rights Movement occurred only about 50 years ago. There are plenty of people who lived back when it was perfectly acceptable to treat Blacks as second-class citizens - not that people don't do that today. Don't pretend white people are sinless just because the worst atrocities are in the past.
I'm not saying black folks are naturally aggressive. In fact I don't think I even implied that. You pulled that completely out of your own ass, Sir White of Guilt.
And I know what you're expecting me to say now. 'Why yes, I have many black friends! (Who I keep at arms length because I keep them around me like living scenery to prove I'm not a racist!)'
I have no patience for those games, Trorbes.
And I loathe that you pretend to know a damned thing about me. You, like so many others, are so indoctrinated the Hollywood stereotype culture that Republicans, in your mind, cannot be anything but the charactertures you've been displayed all your life.
I dated a hefty black woman back in Tulsa. Biggest heart, prettiest smile and most delicious bedtime antics I've ever had and when we broke up, we *honestly* remained friends afterwards!
In my gaming group is a man whose last name is Fujioka, so I'll let you do the guesswork there. One of the best roleplayers I know since he actually bothers to get into the heart of the game!
And also in that group is a man whose last name is Guererro. He's among the few I know who I'd want at my side if I had to walk through Hell.
So don't you *dare* assume a thing about me.
As for niche movies, that's Hollywood for ya'.
And you're right, racism didn't end with the civil war. But slavery did. And Democrats filibustered the Civil Rights Movement, I'll have you know.
I'm not saying white people are sinless. Nobody is. The Japanese treated the Chinese like shit, Europe treats Gypsies like shit, Socialism treated the Jews, business owners and farmers like shit...
There's enough shit to go around for everybody. But constantly pointing fingers and FISHING for racism where none exists is the most surefire way to keep racism alive and well.
Addendum: Forgot to mention the same thing happens when I discuss feminism, too. If I do anything other than pretend men have all the power in everything, men's problems are always only their own fault, and women are still always oppressed in everything, even when massive amounts of observation and evidence prove those three things wrong, I get this thrown at me: [link]
I'll give conservatives this much: When they're being jerks, they still tend to only stick to attacking their enemies. While liberals being jerks will attack their own allies, too, if said allies dare to disagree with the accepted Correct Way of Thinking.
If you point you do have non-white friends, you're still a bigot who's just trotting out his friends as a flimsy Minority Best Friend excuse. There's no such thing as a white who has non-white friends he genuinely likes with zero trace of racism considerations involved, because he's actually genuinely not racist and just disagrees with the Social Justice version of anti-racism.
You literally cannot win unless you submit to the White Guilt agenda, where racism is actually OK so long as it's against whites. Because if you advocate actually having no racism or favoritism, if you point out that discrimination against the majority is not any more OK than discrimination against the minority, you're really secretly magically a white supremacist.
And this is why despite being a left-leaning moderate I always feel awkward identifying as a liberal. Because even though my agreement with them has increased over time, they still do some dumbass shit like this.
If you are white, the "white guilt" road is the only way you won't be labeled a racist. Since I don't travel that road, because its entirely a load of CRAP, I've been called a racist more than once. The way I see it- if I've done nothing TO YOU, I owe you nothing. If I DO, only THEN will I owe you a debt to be paid. But apparently that makes me racist. FINE, then by THAT set of criteria, I would be
I am not racist, and do not slur or discriminate against anyone who's non-white. I don't have any slave owners in my ancestry and admittedly wouldn't really give a shit if I did, since what my ancestors did has no effect on my life now anyway. Being white hasn't done shit to get me any benefits or advantages, regardless of what the Social Justice crowd likes to claim.
So I refuse to feel guilty, and I refuse to be denied something I earned according to the rules everyone's beholden to, or denied something I am eligible to receive as help according to the guidelines used for everyone, just because I'm white or someone else is non-white.
If a non-white person has better test scores, better skills, more experience, etc., then they deserve to get the job over me. No arguments there. If they have worse finances than I do, or are sicker, or their apartment is worse, or whatever, then they deserve the help more than I do. No arguments there, either.
But nobody deserves anything just for being non-white, just as I don't deserve anything just for being white. And since I don't get handed anything for being white anyway, that means I fulfilled my half of the bargain, and thus am not going to feel guilty.
You've said (I think...) that most movies with a black cast are about how evil white people are. What are you trying to say, here?
And what does Maher have to do with anything?
I have no patience for those games, Trorbes.
And yet, you proceed to do just that by listing your friends who are not white. I don't know what you think you're doing, but it's not helping you look better.
You, like so many others, are so indoctrinated the Hollywood stereotype culture that Republicans, in your mind, cannot be anything but the charactertures you've been displayed all your life.
The irony is almost staggering.
As for niche movies, that's Hollywood for ya'.
And Hollywood is but a reflection of what the public wants. If the mainstream audience does not want to watch black people, then Hollywood will not make movies with black people for the mainstream audience.
And you're right, racism didn't end with the civil war. But slavery did. And Democrats filibustered the Civil Rights Movement, I'll have you know.
And then they split into the Southern Democrats and merged with the Republican party, which - I repeat - openly campaigned in the southern US on a platform of bigotry. What is your point.
I'm not saying white people are sinless. Nobody is.
And if all else fails, blame everyone else. You have gone so far past my point that it is obvious you are here only to justify your whiteness, which is beyond pathetic. If I disliked you more I would point out that by attacking me for pointing out institutionalized racism you pretty much out yourself as a racist, or at the very least complacent with racism. Lucky for you I just pity you.
Nope. I did not. And trying to say that I did when I actually did not may have worked for the president, but on the micro scale here, it doesn't work for you.
And I only spoke about my near and dear friends. Are you implying something?
If you honestly believe that Hollywood is just reflecting what people want, then please, by all means, explain to me why we see this flood of crappy Resident Evil movies that nobody likes? Or Silent Hill Movies? Or Mulholland Drive? Or Skyline? Hollywood is not a democracy. They have to appeal to the lowest and widest common denominator, and Hollywood's run by a clutch of elitists who think all Black folks want to see is what they wind up making. The last *real* black movie was Sweet Sweetback's Badass Song, and it was more than just, what Hollywood calls 'negro rage.' It was honest.
Wait... justify my whiteness? Attacking you for...? I'm a racist...? Lucky me?
I think you jumped off the 'Making Sense Line' and jumped the rails to the 'What the Earthly Crap Are You Talking About? Express'.
"I mean, do politicians ever talk about how to capture the 'White vote'?"
The Republicans don't because they already did that, and the Democrats don't because they figure the Republicans did that.
In all seriousness, I'm not even sure how you'd go about capturing the "white vote" to a large percentage to begin with, other than the white supremacist tactics the conservatives often use, and which still only captures a segment of whites rather than reliably playing to all of them since obviously not all whites think they're superior.
Meanwhile, like it or not, the black, Hispanic, woman, and gay vote actually can be captured to a significant percentage of said, as the demographics of the past election proved.
"The Republicans don't because they already did that, and the Democrats don't because they figure the Republicans did that."
Because as we ALL KNOW, there's no such thing as a white Democrat. >_>
You wanna know why there's not a 'white vote'?
Because white people fill so many subcategories that there's no way to appeal to 'white people' as a whole.
And this is why racial categorizing pisses me off so much where politics are concerned.
They believe they can please a group of people just because they do something.
Hispanic vote? Say you'll fuck over the ATF and eat a taco!
Gay vote? Whether you, the candidate believe it or not, say you're all for gay marriage!
Black vote? Pretend you're from the street and that you know what it's like for da' brudders' and you'll pay 'em!
See? It's disgusting.
Say what you will about Mitt Romney, at least he was putting his money where his mouth is. While I disagreed with him on it, he was against gay marriage because that's what he felt. Didn't agree with it, but I respect that he wasn't lying just to get votes. Obama? Heh. He was against gay marriage before he was for it.
"Because as we ALL KNOW, there's no such thing as a white Democrat. >_>"
There's a thing called a "joke". I was making one.
I mean, I'm a white Democrat. I try to not go around claiming I don't exist, as I'm not entirely sure some cosmic power won't decide to take it upon themselves to prove me right.
"Because white people fill so many subcategories that there's no way to appeal to 'white people' as a whole."
Yes, that's the point I was trying to make to Trorbes. But either they failed to understand it properly or I failed to make it properly, I'm not sure which.
"See? It's disgusting."
I would agree... except that... it's also true to a certain extent. The Democrats MASSIVELY swept the minority votes this time around. So it's obviously the case that there are things that will appeal to a majority of individuals in a minority group and/or things that will repel them. It's hard to argue with reality.
"Obama? Heh. He was against gay marriage before he was for it."
Nope, Obama actually has a good record of LGBT rights: [link][link]
But the liberals, as liberals typically do, still attacked the first president to support gay marriage because he didn't do it "correctly". You only count as an ally if you provide support in exactly the One Correct Approved Liberal Way, you see. Otherwise you're still the enemy.