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November 12, 2012
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On the secession petitions

:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
People are freaking out over the petitions for various states to secede from the Union that have been posted to the White House's petition website. There are a number of very common misconceptions going around that I'd like to clear up here. I begin a thread on the Politics board with considerable trepidation, but I hope this will save me some typing later. I don't intend to talk about the merits of secession one way or another, only to address some factual matters.

Myth: If any petition receives more than 25,000 signatures, the government is obligated to respond/act on it.

Fact: The petition website was set up by the Obama administration in a PR bid to appear more "transparent" in its decision process. The only way they might be obliged to reply to any of these petitions in any way is if there had been some law enacted that says so. There is no such law. In reality, the 25,000 threshold for a response of some kind is purely a matter of the administration's own policy, which it is free to ignore. No action of any kind is required. Even when they do respond, it's often just an explanation of why they can't give out the information being asked for.

Myth: States are requesting secession.

Fact: Anyone with an Internet connection can open up a petition on this website, and anyone can "sign" it. That doesn't amount to a state actually requesting anything.

Attentive observers of the petitions will note that several states are represented that are firmly blue. How serious could it possibly be when secession is requested for Oregon, of all places?

Myth: States may secede whenever they want. Nothing in the Constitution prohibits it.

Fact: While many theorists have used the Constitution's silence on the matter to argue one way or another, the Supreme Court ruled on it a long time ago. 1868, to be exact, in the case of Texas v White. (Hmm. Texas. Coincidence?) States may not unilaterally secede, but the possibility is left open that they may do so with the permission of the other states. What amounts to "permission" is not specified. See [link] for a lengthy discussion.

Myth: The President may authorize a state's secession.

Fact: See above. The permission of the other states is necessary. Maybe even ALL the other states. The Executive Branch of the Federal Government has little or nothing to say about it.

Myth: This is unprecedented! Never since the Civil War has there been such unrest for secession!

Fact: Attentive readers of the link above will have observed two relevant items: First, that it was written in 2004. Second, that it was written on the occasion of a great deal of noise being made about possible secession. Only, it wasn't a Democrat who was just re-elected, it was the Republican George W. Bush, and it wasn't red Republicans who were doing all the yelling, it was blue Democrats! It's pretty clear that had this sort of petition website been available before, we'd have seen the exact same thing from the butthurt losers before. That we now have an official-looking forum like the petition website for them to whine on (but it's entirely unofficial!) is the only real difference.

If, after all that, you still want to panic over this stuff, go for it. I can't stop you.
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Devious Comments

:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
thank you for posting this. I hope everyone just settles the fuck down.
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:icondannimondesigns:
DannimonDesigns Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
:laughing: Thats what I think about all the succession crap. Heck in Illinois, people are calling for Cook County to break away and form its own state because Chicago and Cook County are heavily democratic while the rest of Illinois is mostly Rural Republican, but its never gonna happen and neither will a bunch of states break away and form a new country or become countries of their own just because Obama was reelected.

Maybe instead of making petitions about succession, they should try to work with Democrats for the next 4 years and then try to find a presidential candidate that isnt a psychopath, if thats even possible.
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:iconneurotype:
neurotype Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
The real question is whether as many insane people had internet in 2004 :P

Seriously. Kony, SOPA (three months late), etc.
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:iconsherberttcat:
SherbertTCat Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
All these petitions will do is prove one thing. Democrats lose with more dignity than Republicans. I didn't see petition one back in 2004, let alone several. When the left doesn't get their way, they grin and bear it, because they know they will get another chance in a few years. The right, on the other hand, acts like it is the end of the world.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
That's at least in part because this this petition website didn't exist in 2004, I think. The losers back then were still talking about the "S" word.
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:icondkalban:
Dkalban Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Bravo!
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:iconmemnalar:
Memnalar Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012
This happened in 2004 and 2008 as well, and probably took some form before that. Here in Texas, this sort of crap is part of our "national" identity. Nevertheless, fun reading, thanks.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I specifically mentioned 2004.
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:iconmemnalar:
Memnalar Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012
Yep, you did. I'm pretty good at not reading your posts. :)
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:iconndifference:
ndifference Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Professional Writer
My home state, Vermont, has been grumbling about seceding for as long as I can remember. Yadda yadda yadda.
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:iconmemnalar:
Memnalar Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012
Texas. Same story. [link]
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:iconndifference:
ndifference Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Professional Writer
Both former Republics. Whaddya know?
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:iconherbaldrink:
HerbalDrink Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012
Where are your sources for these?
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The linked article and the actual petition website at [link] . The only thing they promise if a petition reaches 25,000 signatures is that it will be "reviewed by the White House, distributed to the appropriate policy officials within the Administration and receive an official response." You can also find a humorous but informative article about it here: [link]
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:iconherbaldrink:
HerbalDrink Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012
WEll, I mean more where it says the obama administration set these up. Where did you find that out?

and as for the Oregon secession...there is a secession movement around there but it's taken about as seriously as Steven Colbert's presidential campaign in 2008. They're the opposite of other who are "the country's too liberal". Evidently, they think "No the country's too conservative".


But yes, you are correct that anyone can set those up and anyone can sign those. Is there anything to confirm that people were forging signatures?
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
WEll, I mean more where it says the obama administration set these up. Where did you find that out?

I relied on my own memory for that, as I remember quite clearly that there was no such site during the Bush administration, but if you insist on a source [link] clearly states that it was launched by the Obama administration in 2010.

Is there anything to confirm that people were forging signatures?

Not that I know of, but I didn't consider that of much importance. It's a website, for crying out loud. How accurate is it likely to be?
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:iconherbaldrink:
HerbalDrink Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012
Hm, just cause it was the Obama administration that set this site up doesn't mean that they put up all these surveys. Or did I simply misread you because I thought you said the petitions were set up by the Obama administration themselves.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
No, the petition website was set up by the administration.

The management of DeviantArt set up these forums. Do they also start every thread?
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:iconherbaldrink:
HerbalDrink Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012
Okay, I must have misunderstood you.
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:iconebolabearvomit:
EbolaBearVomit Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012
eh...it's just a slow news week apparently.

Only assholes, idiots, and youngsters are getting wrapped up in this fiasco.

This is why Anna Nicole Smith's death was a national tragedy. We lost a topic gold mine with her loss.
The Kardashians need to do something this week to alleviate the pressure.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I guess a sex scandal at the top of the CIA just isn't juicy enough. Petraeus should have gotten it on with a Kardashian.
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:icondkalban:
Dkalban Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I wouldn't wish that on even my worse enemy!
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:iconebolabearvomit:
EbolaBearVomit Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012
Petraeus wasn't banging a hot chick and he also does not have D cups:P
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:iconmagnius159:
Magnius159 Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I wasn't aware of the level of emotional turmoil this election has caused. Perhaps because I've surrounded myself with some level headed friends from both sides. Here's something from a couple friend's tweet who probably dislikes Obama as much as the next Republican, but you know, he's sane: "Stop talking about conspiracy theories and succeeding from the US - you simply look foolish," "Talk of succession and impeaching @BarackObama is useless. Better to channel your effort/energy into the next election," and "Some of you need to take a deep breath and calm down. Seriously."
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:icontbschemer:
TBSchemer Featured By Owner Nov 13, 2012
The problem is we may not even make it to the next election. Obama signed legislation in 2010 that gives the president dictatorial powers in 2014.

He is on a mission to destroy liberty, and he's not too shy about it.
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:iconlytrigian:
Lytrigian Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Unfortunately, the sane ones don't seem to be anywhere nearby. Either that, or they have better things to do than fill up blogs with their theorizing.
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:iconmagnius159:
Magnius159 Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
The second one. Definitely lol
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:iconkitsumekat:
kitsumekat Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2012
I can't inb4 this.
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