GOP: You're done, son.
Nothing more to be said, really, but it's worth explaining. Now that this election is over, we can see how devastating the loss was to the GOP.
I want to make one thing clear up front: when I say "conservative", I mean American small "c" conservatism, and I equate it to being a Republican. Are there moderates out there? Of course. Are there moderates who self-identify as conservatives? Absolutely. But they've been excommunicated from the Republican party, leaving American conservatism firmly in the hand of the Republican Part and the Republican Party only. Your David Frums and Andrew Sullivans have been cast out to wander the wilderness, or just become a "conservative" Democrat.
I consider American conservatism to be at best the David Brooks-style snake oil salesmanism or Rush Limbaugh fire-breathing moron. This is how I use the term.
Okay, that said, it's a dying brand with no return. Nationally, conservatives, the GOP, are done. You likely won't win a national election again.
Why? Two reasons:
Simple aging of the base.
The cruelty of the policies don't appeal to the minorities and young people.
We saw the "moderate" face of your extreme policies in Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. And American rejected them wholesale. We normal people aren't the bigoted bastards who capriciously deal out suffering through cuts that they thought we are, or would vote on. We don't like Randian orthodoxy that hurts poor people just for the sake of a hierarchy. We don't like the guys who obsess over forcing women to give birth to their rape babies for Jesus. We don't like people who suggest making the lives of immigrants so horrible that they self-deport. Sure, you kept the House with gerrymandering, but that's all that saved your asses. Sure, you can capture State Houses, but how long with that go on for when your base dies off?
Conservatives, Objectivists, religious fundamentalists, you need to change and grow up, or you will be the outliers within the next 25 years.
So:
Is it possible for these groups to admit how flawed their policies are?
Can moderate polices actually make a comeback with, say, a third party? (Think red Tories in the Canadian tradition).
Will they march into the abyss, or actually make a change?
And the question I want to ask directly to conservatives in the States:
If you consider yourself a moderate conservative, why do you hitch your wagon to the GOP, the party of the crazies and fundamentalists?
I want to make one thing clear up front: when I say "conservative", I mean American small "c" conservatism, and I equate it to being a Republican. Are there moderates out there? Of course. Are there moderates who self-identify as conservatives? Absolutely. But they've been excommunicated from the Republican party, leaving American conservatism firmly in the hand of the Republican Part and the Republican Party only. Your David Frums and Andrew Sullivans have been cast out to wander the wilderness, or just become a "conservative" Democrat.
I consider American conservatism to be at best the David Brooks-style snake oil salesmanism or Rush Limbaugh fire-breathing moron. This is how I use the term.
Okay, that said, it's a dying brand with no return. Nationally, conservatives, the GOP, are done. You likely won't win a national election again.
Why? Two reasons:
Simple aging of the base. The cruelty of the policies don't appeal to the minorities and young people.We saw the "moderate" face of your extreme policies in Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. And American rejected them wholesale. We normal people aren't the bigoted bastards who capriciously deal out suffering through cuts that they thought we are, or would vote on. We don't like Randian orthodoxy that hurts poor people just for the sake of a hierarchy. We don't like the guys who obsess over forcing women to give birth to their rape babies for Jesus. We don't like people who suggest making the lives of immigrants so horrible that they self-deport. Sure, you kept the House with gerrymandering, but that's all that saved your asses. Sure, you can capture State Houses, but how long with that go on for when your base dies off?
Conservatives, Objectivists, religious fundamentalists, you need to change and grow up, or you will be the outliers within the next 25 years.
So:
Is it possible for these groups to admit how flawed their policies are? Can moderate polices actually make a comeback with, say, a third party? (Think red Tories in the Canadian tradition). Will they march into the abyss, or actually make a change?And the question I want to ask directly to conservatives in the States:
If you consider yourself a moderate conservative, why do you hitch your wagon to the GOP, the party of the crazies and fundamentalists?Comments191
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Not really, The republicans still got 47% of the vote,
More over their policies and political campaigning might return with vengeance just as it did in 2010.
For the GOP, they could change their policies to reflect the power of solid voting bloc's such as single women and single moms. Or they could just focus heavily on strengthening their base, registering voters and create new wedge issues.
Abortion? Forget about it. Perhaps focus on taxes, pit it as this sort of question "Why should X tax dollars go to fun Y groups choices?" You'll find the GOP back once more.
More over their policies and political campaigning might return with vengeance just as it did in 2010.
For the GOP, they could change their policies to reflect the power of solid voting bloc's such as single women and single moms. Or they could just focus heavily on strengthening their base, registering voters and create new wedge issues.
Abortion? Forget about it. Perhaps focus on taxes, pit it as this sort of question "Why should X tax dollars go to fun Y groups choices?" You'll find the GOP back once more.
Don't think they're done. They already got a half-popular candidate that people know the name of, whereas Obama can't run for another term and the democrats don't really have anyone left that people know and would vote for. Republicans want revenge for Obama getting in, while democrats are relatively pretty satisfied for now.
If they play their cards right, they've got one term pretty much already. Not sure what'd happen afterwards.
If they play their cards right, they've got one term pretty much already. Not sure what'd happen afterwards.
I am politically neutral, which makes me neither conservative nor liberal. Hers's what I want to happen in America. Here's what I'm saying to President Obama. If he's fed up with the death threats and the crybaby Republicans such as Donald Trump, these are his objectives.
Stop the reckless spending and pay off the national debt. I don't care if the president doesn't care if it's not too important to deal with.
Ensure that big cities such as Los Angeles and Bakersfield have far cleaner transportation like subways. I am aware that public transportation isn't so flexible and hardly anything can be done to make it so.
Gay marriages should be legal all over the United States. Not only is it a good way to control population growth, but also to make things more flexible to gays and lesbians.
Like Mitt Romney said, it's time to turn the page. I want to see no more recessions and no 2nd Great Depression. Also I wanna see no World War III between the GOP and Democrats.
Stop the reckless spending and pay off the national debt. I don't care if the president doesn't care if it's not too important to deal with.Ensure that big cities such as Los Angeles and Bakersfield have far cleaner transportation like subways. I am aware that public transportation isn't so flexible and hardly anything can be done to make it so.Gay marriages should be legal all over the United States. Not only is it a good way to control population growth, but also to make things more flexible to gays and lesbians.Like Mitt Romney said, it's time to turn the page. I want to see no more recessions and no 2nd Great Depression. Also I wanna see no World War III between the GOP and Democrats.
Conservatism is on the ascendancy. Watch out, it will sneak up on you as it is the dominant thought in American politics ie the majority agree with conservative ideas. Of course you'll deny this! The traditional, old guard Republican party is dying. The party of Bush, Rove, McCain, Graham, Boehner and their ilk. Conservatives have been betrayed by these people and that betrayal has led to their own demise.
"Conservatism is on the ascendancy."
probably no. It peaked around 2011, with 2010 being the peak election cycle. At best its plateauing, if anything on a slight decline. Not to say the conservative movement is in any bit finished, but its hardly the dominant thought.
If anything a good chunk of the new conservative base is now libertarian.
" Watch out, it will sneak up on you as it is the dominant thought in American politics ie the majority agree with conservative ideas. Of course you'll deny this!"
and the liberals claim the same thing, with the same polls full of skewed loaded questions.
probably no. It peaked around 2011, with 2010 being the peak election cycle. At best its plateauing, if anything on a slight decline. Not to say the conservative movement is in any bit finished, but its hardly the dominant thought.
If anything a good chunk of the new conservative base is now libertarian.
" Watch out, it will sneak up on you as it is the dominant thought in American politics ie the majority agree with conservative ideas. Of course you'll deny this!"
and the liberals claim the same thing, with the same polls full of skewed loaded questions.
Meh... enjoy Fox Noise complaining about it for the next four years. The electorate can and will change at the drop of a hat.
Heh, "Fox Noise". Rather like that.
I can't take credit for it. Keith Olbermann started using that name on his old show "Countdown".
2% less popular vote = "Rejected wholesale"
Funny, how did that whole 2004 election go?
Funny, how did that whole 2004 election go?
Where have you been? D:
Avoiding the politics forum during election season, of course.
It wasn't that bad. TBS was saying how guaranteed Romney's victory was and then when he didn't he started calling most blacks (the ones that voted for Obama) racist. That's probably the only thing out of the ordinary.
Ah. Well, you missed a lot. Probably better that way.
That's what I figured.
The last election was at least interesting; the Democrats were all fired up.
This election season was just sad and pathetic. There wasn't enthusiasm from either side, just a resounding bitterness.
The last election was at least interesting; the Democrats were all fired up.
This election season was just sad and pathetic. There wasn't enthusiasm from either side, just a resounding bitterness.
Gary Johnson won a single county in Kansas. I totally fist pumped.
Lord Vetinari didn't win any counties, sadly. But the election was a sham anyways; a hundred million votes? One man, one vote. Clearly there was ballot-stuffing.
thats weird, I don't feel devastated?
I don't see the US switching to a one-party system, but I do see the Republicans in serious trouble without changing the way they approach the electorate.
I don't either, but I foresee a period of rather strange politics until a new right wing party forms properly, or (and I consider this to be a less probable outcome) the GOP gets its collective ass in gear.
If there's anything we need more of a third party so that they'd be forced to form coalitions with the other to get something passed instead of "we have the majority so eff you". :/
yeah, unfortunately and if it does, it'll just be the libertarians and they'll just block many things ust cause it's not conservative enough. :/
yeah, they only got over 58 million votes, they have no support
"Okay, that said, it's a dying brand with no return. Nationally, conservatives, the GOP, are done. You likely won't win a national election again."
I think your far out on left field on this one, drawing conclusions from the presidential race only, and ignoring the senate and house of representatives.
Just a reminder the republicans retained control of the house, and the dems made a narrow gain if you want to call it that in the senate(with an independent in maine, a moderate with a distaste for partisan politics)
The GOP is still viable, but I think this proves that for the first time since LBJ, that liberalism is equally viable nationally by itself, and not something the country just swings to when they are pissed off at republicans.
"
Why? Two reasons:
Simple aging of the base.
The cruelty of the policies don't appeal to the minorities and young people.
"
This is what they said in the 1960s after the democrats had an almost complete stranglehold on politics, period. Barry Goldwater got the biggest asswhopping in history at the time in the 1964 president elections vs LBJ. He only won 3 states in the deep south, and only won them because of the Civil Rights Act, Johnson supported to keep the larger mess of liberals in new england. Before the Civil Rights Act, LBJ had the deep south too, and it would have been a shutout.
Conservatism was just not generally accepted in society as a whole in 1964.
It was only a short 8 years later where Goldwater Disciple, Richard Millhouse Nixon, defeated last-honest-man-in-politics Democrat George McGovern in an even bigger landslide(Mcgovern won only massachusets), and the same liberal ideas were all but discredited.
The Republicans held the national narrative for the next 36 years, as liberalism was generally discredited, and the dems had a really hard time in national politics ever since, and kept in power as centrists.
I think your far out on left field on this one, drawing conclusions from the presidential race only, and ignoring the senate and house of representatives.
Just a reminder the republicans retained control of the house, and the dems made a narrow gain if you want to call it that in the senate(with an independent in maine, a moderate with a distaste for partisan politics)
The GOP is still viable, but I think this proves that for the first time since LBJ, that liberalism is equally viable nationally by itself, and not something the country just swings to when they are pissed off at republicans.
"
Why? Two reasons:
Simple aging of the base. The cruelty of the policies don't appeal to the minorities and young people."
This is what they said in the 1960s after the democrats had an almost complete stranglehold on politics, period. Barry Goldwater got the biggest asswhopping in history at the time in the 1964 president elections vs LBJ. He only won 3 states in the deep south, and only won them because of the Civil Rights Act, Johnson supported to keep the larger mess of liberals in new england. Before the Civil Rights Act, LBJ had the deep south too, and it would have been a shutout.
Conservatism was just not generally accepted in society as a whole in 1964.
It was only a short 8 years later where Goldwater Disciple, Richard Millhouse Nixon, defeated last-honest-man-in-politics Democrat George McGovern in an even bigger landslide(Mcgovern won only massachusets), and the same liberal ideas were all but discredited.
The Republicans held the national narrative for the next 36 years, as liberalism was generally discredited, and the dems had a really hard time in national politics ever since, and kept in power as centrists.