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November 5, 2012


Replies: 9

Scottish Independence [Need help discussing this!]

Hannahbul Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Right, this is an image someone I know on Facebook posted
It's about Scottish Independence. I felt that it was inaccurate. I cannot remember why... [I'm ill and on a lot of drugs]

Anyway, this guy is very happy in the belief that everything he says is always right and usually I do not even bother trying but this really irks me. I'm from the UK, I was born in England but have spent the majority of my life in Scotland. My parents are Scottish, I've traced my ancestry on both sides, at least three generations of Scottish on my mum's side and five on my dad's. This guy is from Switzerland and likes to pretend he is from whatever country he's currently in. He went to Ireland for a week and then decided he was Irish. He is a jerk. I'm going to delete him, I only had him on my facebook because another friend who doesn't have FB kept making me arrange times they would meet.

Anyway I see that picture and it irks me.
So I say
"Australia is huge and has far more natural resources. Same for Canada.
The closest to us population wise is New Zealand however they have a far better tourist industry.

I could keep going but I'm tired.

I'm not for or against Scottish Independence :) But this is just not right.
This is the strawman argument, m'love."

Then he says:
"Australian natural resources? Like what? Oil, coal, gas, renewables? Oh wait, those are all things Scotland has. Tourism? You mean Scotland's biggest industry? What about the Scandinavian neighbours? High tax social democracies with similar resources and capabilities that function perfectly? The countries Scotland could and would emulate, like Ireland and the Netherlands?

And that's not even what a Strawman argument is."

~_~ I got confused as to what a straw man argument was. I've remembered now it's too late.

Uh! I'm full of codeine, I haven't slept since Monday and I shouldn't have started this... Please help me end it <3

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Devious Comments

CouchyCreature Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
the Guardian has a guide relating to this question - [link]
Hannahbul Featured By Owner Nov 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank you ^w^ I have posted this link on my own facebook~
CouchyCreature Featured By Owner Nov 7, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
you're welcome.
ZCochrane Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Student Photographer
The image completely fails to give a reason why being a small country would lead to greater prosperity, by cherry-picking information. To get any useful information, one has to look at the entire list. For example, it mentions Switzerland. Austria has not a lot more inhabitants and similar geography, but ranks only at 16. The Netherlands are mentioned. Belgium is actually smaller and ranks at 17. Scandinavia looks nice, but Iceland clocks in at 15. All these three states rank below the US, UK and Germany, aka really big nations. And don't get me started on "former british colonies": Those also include India and Pakistan.

Your someone-I-know is making the argument that this list proves that small countries (at least either in North-East Europe or former british colonies) do better than big countries. But the list does not actually show that. It provides no reason to believe that people in Scotland would be better off if the country was independent. So tell that guy that he has to find some, real actual arguments.

(Personally, I'm against scottish independence. Partly because Germany would have to build a new embassy, and those things don't come free, and partly because I think adding more borders and more red tape and so on is the precise opposite of what Europe should be doing now.)
Hannahbul Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank you genius :'D <3 I owe you big time
I also am inwardly against it, I love being part of the UK, but if I am open with this guy about it he'll just... be very unpleasant.

I replied with what you have said and he's being a jerk ^w^ Of course! He trying to say that I [or we in this case] am making strawman arguments :P He is extremely annoying, I give up~
Thank you so, so much for your help~ <3 You're brill!
Novuso Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012
Anything that leads to less centralized control is good. When your tax money is collected by bureaucrats in far away cities you tend to never see it again. I wish the Scottish people best of luck in their fight for Independence.
CouchyCreature Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
its not a fight, and the UK will not object if the Scottish people make the choice.

The UK prime minister signed the "Edinburgh agreement" on 15 October which gives the Scottish parliament the legal power to stage a referendum on independence before the end of 2014. They have been encouraged to make a decision about their own future.
Hannahbul Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
A lot of US states are bigger than the UK... A lot of countries too. I'll be happy if there is independence but this is not about that. This is about his bad argument :P <3
skulkey Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
totally agree with you, here.
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