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November 2, 2012
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Amsterdam to remain open for weed tourists - yay!

:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
OK, being from the UK may mean this news is less relevant for the citizens across the pond and outside of Europe. From a visitor perspective, anyway.

I've always admired the Netherlands - and Portugal, to some degree - for going against the "war on drugs" agenda in favour of a more empirical and objective policy.

The centre-right government wanted a national ban on selling marijuana to tourists. I think the move away from this is more to do with the economic implications from a loss of tourist revenue, but the mayor of Amsterdam had the following to say about the ban:

"This would lead to more robberies, quarrels about fake drugs, and no control of the quality of drugs on the market - everything we have worked towards would be lost to misery."

Pretty much sums up what the Global Commission on Drug Policy have been telling national governments for years. [link]


Anyway, what's your view on marijuana - criminalise or decriminalise? Why?

420
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Devious Comments

:iconthenecco:
TheNecco Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Student General Artist
You can get clean weed in your home town... just ask friends.
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:iconcenaris:
Cenaris Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
We don't care about you wanting to legalise weed, infinatetoler...

Oh wrong guy. My apologies.
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:iconjackmolotov3:
JackMolotov3 Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
"Anyway, what's your view on marijuana - criminalise or decriminalise? Why?"

fully legalize it, and de-regulate it.(except truth in advertising regulations, i.e. it has to be exactly what they say it is).

Most of the problems from marijuana come from enforcement, not use.
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:iconviberunner:
viberunner Featured By Owner Nov 3, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
I am from the UK and back in the UK but lived for 3 years in Den Haag (The Hague).

Fantastic. Smoked pretty much every day there. Also was the period the Smart Shops were open - was able to buy shrooms and cacti openly. Fantastic!!
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:iconthemarcher:
TheMarcher Featured By Owner Nov 3, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
It seems to be working fine for the people of the Netherlands. I go there for a week almost every year, but funny enough I have never smoked pot there, although I tried a few times at home where it is very much illegal.

I think that weed could be allowed but restricted. At least for the disorders and diseases THC helps.
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:iconcrimsonmagpie:
CrimsonMagpie Featured By Owner Nov 3, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
Well, the vast majority of 'weed tourists' are fucking annoying, so I'm all for keeping it illegal just to keep a lid on the amount of terminally annoying people out there.
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:iconviberunner:
viberunner Featured By Owner Nov 3, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
But they bring in an annoying amount of hard currency into the city...
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:iconcrimsonmagpie:
CrimsonMagpie Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
This is true, but is it worth them being annoying everywhere? :noes:
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:iconviberunner:
viberunner Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
Yes. It's only one city they infest... the rest of the Netherlands is fine for tourism.

Actually they don't infest the entire of Amsterdam either, most of the suburbs are fine: just a mile perhaps mile-and-a-half half-radius from the central station.

The local hard-drug junkies are much worse than the tourists. Tourists are annoying, the HD junkies are dangerous...
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 3, 2012
Haha - all tourists are dicks; how dare they come to my country and spend money!!
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:iconcrimsonmagpie:
CrimsonMagpie Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012  Professional Traditional Artist
Indeed, but weed tourists are terminally annoying on top of that.
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:iconreaperchris13:
Reaperchris13 Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Student Artist
Decriminalize. Then the Government can sell it, tax it, get a nice increase of revenue. Police can auction off the marijuana in their evidence room and get either a nice new bonus or new equipment (Depending on how much they sell and how much they get) Marijuana is not as addictive, as destructive, or as bad as most drugs or even some of the legal drugs we currently have. It also has showed some nice positive side effects. We can then release the dealers (As long as they were not violent) and save money more so by not having so many people locked up for a victimless crime. Weed is already easy to get and legalizing it won't do really any harm that I can think of.
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:iconviberunner:
viberunner Featured By Owner Nov 3, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
That's not decriminalisation, that's legalisation - a much more sensible policy.
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
I like that you're thinking as a businessman ;)

Definitely agree that the cost - both direct and indirect - of enforcement far outweigh the risks marijuana poses to both a person's health and society.

The costs are around $15-20 billion per year just trying to enforce the war on drugs. It has a success rate estimated to be around 10-20%. Quite a lot of money to spend on a policy which fails 80-90% of the time!
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:iconempiredice:
empiredice Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
Decriminalize. I don't know if it's possible, but if you can get a high from second hand, decriminalize with distance laws like for regular smoking. People are gonna get high anyway, I just don't want to, ever, and that should remain my choice.
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
Passive highness! :D

Agree with you - it should be the same as tobacco with restrictions in public places. In Amsterdam you weren't really allowed to smoke whilst walking in the street, but the police ignored it provided you weren't causing trouble.
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:iconfirstxaidxkit:
FIRSTxAIDxKIT Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
Doesn't really matter if it's criminalized or de-, because it's still easy as hell to get. :shrug: Though it would be nice if it were legalized and the prices dropped, and I could buy a pack of pre-rolled spliffs from the convenience store.

In my state, it is decriminalized for those over 21. You just get a fine (doesn't even go on your record) if you have less than an ounce with no intention to sell.
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
True, there's never a shortage of supply. Just like you say though, the prices are inflated. Pre-rolled in lazy! :P

I'm thinking if it were decriminalised, or even legalised, the government could increase tax revenue whilst at the same time cut spending (perfect considering we are going through a period of austerity!):
- Cut spending: less drug dealers, leading to a drop in gang crime and causing police front line services to not be as stretched. If this doesn't lead to a cut in government spending, I think it would definitely lead to at least more efficient use of spending.
- Tax revenue: Growing licenses, selling licences, corporation tax from businesses selling and tax duty put on marijuana, similar to tobacco and alcohol.

The UK Drug Commission have recommended loosening the laws and potentially allowing people to grow one plant legally to reduce the demand from dealers. The problem is I'm not very good with plants :(
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:iconfirstxaidxkit:
FIRSTxAIDxKIT Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Professional Interface Designer
And let's not forget less people in prison, which is less money out of the government's pockets as well.
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:iconsonrie-mucho:
Sonrie-mucho Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Decriminalize. Because if alcohol is a drug, then why isn't alcohol use criminalized? The prohibition didn't work in America, so I don't see why those who criminalize pot even bother with something which is an individual's preference. I don't smoke it for personal reasons, but I don't think it's a drug intended on harming others.
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:iconhippo-rim-job:
hippo-rim-job Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
I actually think alcohol is worse...
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:iconsonrie-mucho:
Sonrie-mucho Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Same here.
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
I'm sure there's some vested interests from corporations intent on maintaining this prohibition - pharmaceutical or alcohol possibly. I better be careful though; I don't want to be branded a conspiracy theorist! :O
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:iconsonrie-mucho:
Sonrie-mucho Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Conspiracy theorists are cool because their intelligence intimidates the rest of the population. ;)
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:iconnamenotrequired:
namenotrequired Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Student Interface Designer
I live in the Netherlands and study in Amsterdam so it won't affect me as a tourist =P I don't smoke at all, but I agree with him.
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
Nice; I have a friend studying in Utrecht. Whereabouts are you from? It always seems refreshingly free when I travel to the Netherlands. People seem to be more responsible for their own actions, without the need for state interference...unlike the UK. :D
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:iconnamenotrequired:
namenotrequired Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Student Interface Designer
I studied in Utrecht for a year as well :) I'm from Hoofddorp, right next to Schiphol airport. :D

Hehe, yeah, I get what you mean! I love that :D
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
You need to get a bike now that you're in Amsterdam...
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:iconnamenotrequired:
namenotrequired Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Student Interface Designer
Yeah, I own two!=P
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
That's just being greedy
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:iconnamenotrequired:
namenotrequired Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Student Interface Designer
:noes: I bought them both! And there's enough here for everyone anyway:giggle:
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
You people in the Netherlands are going to create a bicycle boom!

It won't be long before the US and UK banks are dishing out cheap credit to consumers to buy more bikes, whilst at the same time investing in bike manufacturers to cash-in on the heightened demand. The banks will package up these loans into securities and sell them onto other parts of the financial sector. Eventually, interest rates will be raised by the ECB causing all those on variable rate loans to default. The bicycle bubble will burst, the bike market will crash, US and UK banks will be left with toxic debt secured against worthless assets, other parts of the financial system will find itself hopelessly infected, and the world's governments will have to step in to bail out their financial sectors!

I better warn the IMF about this looming financial crisis.
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(1 Reply)
:iconhippo-rim-job:
hippo-rim-job Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
I don't smoke it because I like being coherent.
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
I didn't realise the two were mutually exclusive...
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:iconhippo-rim-job:
hippo-rim-job Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
Most people who smoke pot so regularly that they can't really remember what it's like to be fully alert would probably agree with you. :nod:
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
So would those who don't smoke and choose to use empirical data. Dr Heath's study of the 1970s was so last century and, unsurprisingly, so inaccurate. :)
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:iconhippo-rim-job:
hippo-rim-job Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
Oh a literate stoner. Those are the worst.

Pot is pot. It is consciousness altering drug. End of story. You will not find any scientific evidence to say otherwise. I suppose you could argue that if you only used a very tiny amount, the effects would only be slight. But who the hell does that? No one I've ever heard of. And that's including the people who I've heard make that argument.

As far as legalizing it, I don't personally care. I don't think it's bad or wrong to use it. But I dislike people who are in denial about what it is and what it does.

It is very useful for pain management in cancer patients. But let's face it. The majority of those smoking it are not people with cancer. They are kids who look like Shaggy from Scooby Doo.
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
-"It is consciousness altering drug."-

Ah, so you're saying during intoxication the smoker is incoherent? True or not, the fortunate fact is intoxication isn't permanent.

-"But I dislike people who are in denial about what it is and what it does."-

I've never denied marijuana alters the state of consciousness - what would be the point otherwise? Unless you're taking it for medical purposes, but I'm personally recreational.

-"They are kids who look like Shaggy from Scooby Doo."-

I bet they're also illiterate and brain dead too, right? :D

I hope my responses aren't too incoherent for you. ;)
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:iconhippo-rim-job:
hippo-rim-job Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
...but I'm personally recreational...

That's all you had to say. :lol:
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:icon7magickvii:
7MAGiCKVII Featured By Owner Nov 2, 2012
...but I put a lot of effort into my recreational use - it's not easy :P
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