Frederico Pena vs. Mitt Romney

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~Sexy-Cowboy-Predator Aug 8, 2012 Hobbyist Photographer

So, I have a question to everyone who is all into the hype of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital and how he has not only slashed jobs and sent them overseas, but he has killed a mans wife due to his egregious actions as a venture capitalist.

Did you know the co-chairman of Obama's campaign, Frederico Peña, is the managing director of the venture capitalist company Vestar Capital Partners? Vestar Capital has cut thousands of jobs, shuting down Del Monte and Solo Cup plants and laying of workers from from companies such as BirdsEye foods. So its okay for some venture capitalits to do this but not others, according our President.

I have no fondness for Mitt Romney, I think hes a crook to be honest with you, and wants only to serve American megacorperations. However, I belive this is somewhat of double standard coming from the Obama's camp. To put out ads that accuse Romney of killing people while there are key players on the Obama team participating in the same type of activities. Just curious as to the justification here.

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~maddmatt Aug 10, 2012

People lose jobs, businesses close, they file bankruptcy, and sometimes offshore some jobs to keep the doors open inshore. This is what happens in business especially with ups and downs in a particular industry or magnified with the downs of a global economy.

Nobody wants the American and Global economies to progress more than American Businesses. This includes Venture Capitalists.

One of the companies being discussed with Bain is a paper company. How many people are blaming Steve Jobs and Bill Gates for trying to make paper obsolete as much as possible? Aren't "progressives" trying to push a paperless and therefore more "green" ways of living? Is it fair to say the greed of Steve Jobs killed thousands of cancer patients who had jobs or spouses with jobs that lost demand because their vision made their job or even their entire business obsolete?

If we found cheap and clean energy tomorrow, would liberals really be lamenting the thousands of jobs now lost in Big Oil companies? Really? The complaints are so ridiculous and have no continuity when you apply them to liberal causes.

Needless to say, the management decisions at that paper company that caused them to reorganize their debt and chart a new course in the boom of mobile technologies allowed them to stabilize their company and later expand. Romney's biggest attack is that he is damn good at analyzing a business and finding ways to manage the businesses within their true means so it can solidify and grow. We need more of that right now across this globe in leadership positions. Not presidents who have never even had a real job in any kind of business.

~DefineDeviancyDown Aug 9, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

I've got no use for Romney either, but in fairness to him the truth must be told here.

Here’s a timeline of what really happened:

* Bain Capital buys the GST mill in 1993.

* Romney leaves Bain in 1999 to run the Salt Lake City Olympics.

* Bain closes the mill in 2001.

* Joe Soptic loses his job, but his wife Renae retains her own health insurance through her job at Savers Thrift Store.

* In 2002, after sustaining an injury, Renae loses her job and her insurance.

* In 2006, a full five years after the steel plant closed, Renae is diagnosed with cancer and passes away soon after.

The Liberal's ad hides all that — and essentially paints Romney as a cold-blooded killer.

Now, Obama & Co. have tried to distance themselves from the ad, saying it’s “by an entity . . . not controlled by the campaign.”

But they won’t denounce it. Their campaign has featured Soptic in at least three other promos. And Obama backers are urged to donate to the PAC.

Spin and manipulation, of course, are standard procedure in electoral bouts.

But you’ve got to wonder: Is nothing too sleazy for Team Obama?

~alphamale1980 Aug 9, 2012

Firstly Mitt was still listed as the Sole owner, CEO, and President of the Board for an additional 3 years. It would be one thing if he kept ownership and put people into those other jobs to run the company. He did not. He held every single major position within the company for that entire time. He can claim whatever he wants. The bottom line is if you are the sole owner, CEO, and President of a company... you are responsible for what it does.

Secondly Bain’s original investment in Soptic’s steel company (GST Steel) was made under the leadership of Romney (1993). By the way... like most of the companies that Bain Capital invests in, Soptic's steel plant (an Armco Steel Mill before it was bought and renamed GST) was profitable when Bain purchased it, in fact it had been a profitable factory making steel rods or "blanks" for manufacturers for 105 years before Bain purchased it. The company (under Bain control) took on hundreds of millions of dollars in debt while paying Bain investors millions in dividends. This is what eventually lead to the bankruptcy of the company. This all happened while even Romney agrees he was still running Bain. By the time the company actually filed for bankruptcy Romney had signed on to lead the Utah Olympics, but as I said before was still the sole owner, President and CEO of Bain Capital on the day of the Bankruptcy. When it did file for bankruptcy Bain informed the workers that the company would not honor the guarantees it had promised them—including severance pay, health insurance, life insurance and pension supplements.

Thirdly if the company had not been bought by Bain, all indications are that it would have still been a working factory when Armco partnered with Kawasaki Steel Corportion to create AK steel (one of the largest steel consortiums on the planet and currently an S&P 500 member). Joe would have had his wife insured on his own much more comprehensive insurance (as she had been before Bain came along). Whether or not having that insurance would have saved her life we do not know. But if Bain had not bought that Armco factory... she would almost certainly have still had it, and those 700+ employees would have still had jobs, with pensions insurance and other benefits.

~DefineDeviancyDown Aug 10, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

Thanks alphamale.

Jonathan Lavine, managing director at Bain who has bundled between a 100 grand and 200 grand in donations for Obama 2012, was one of the guys running Bain when this steel company went belly up.

The Obama administration has already done its best to distance itself from the Priorities USA ad to the point where, Stephanie Cutter, deputy manager of the Obama presidential campaign, denied that they had any knowledge of Soptic’s story, although she took part in an OfA press call on May 14, 2012 with the professional victim, Joe Soptic, who robot-like, reading from a script, recounted his story.

Stephanie Cutter was not only on the call. She introduced Joe Soptic, then wrapped up his testimony.

So what's the point? ..........................

There is collusion between Obama for America and a PAC, Priorities USA. The legalities of which are yet to be brought up and hashed out.

But, the plot thickens.

It is indeed popcorn season!

~alphamale1980 Aug 10, 2012

Jonathan Levine isn't running for President of the United States. He also was NOT the sole owner, CEO or President of the company at the time. Again, if you hold every major position within a corporation you are responsible for what the company does. Also again, the purchase of the company as well as the debt loading and dividend payments were all made while Romney still admits to running Bain. Those are the things that caused the eventual bankruptcy.

I never claimed that it was an Obama ad, or that they had anything to do with it. Secondly your statements don't prove any collusion between the 2. Why wouldn't someone running a PAC in support of a candidate use this story?

~DefineDeviancyDown Aug 10, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

The ad from Priorities USA Action offers one man’s story to suggest the investment practices of Romney and Bain Capital led to the early death of his wife.

Romney bears responsibility for the general practices of Bain Capital and the record is clear that in Kansas City, Bain profited while many people suffered. But there is little to support the ad's innuendo that Bain is responsible for the early death of the steel worker’s wife.

The cancer came several years after he lost his job and her lack of coverage was not due solely to her husband losing his health insurance.

No one can know for certain if the steel mill would have survived given overseas competition. It’s possible that Bain might have extended the life of the firm. And even the makers of the ad agree that it would be wrong to say Romney is responsible for the woman’s early death.

The ad uses innuendo for a serious allegation, but there's no proof directly linking the death to Bain.

That said, perhaps we can agree to disagree. Thanks for the debate alpha.

~alphamale1980 Aug 10, 2012

No one can know for certain if the steel mill would have survived given overseas competition. It’s possible that Bain might have extended the life of the firm. And even the makers of the ad agree that it would be wrong to say Romney is responsible for the woman’s early death.

Actually that mill was owned by a larger corporation that is now one of the largest steel conglomerates in the world. Barring the plant burning down or something it would still be in production as it had been for the past 105 years.

~DefineDeviancyDown Aug 10, 2012 Hobbyist General Artist

What is the name of that larger corporation? And, based on your prognosis as to the potential longevity of GST, have you ever worked in the steel industry? You seem to be an expert on the subject.
I've been in business and industry for many years and would not venture to guess on the long term success of any steel mill, as the industry has been in free fall since the eighties.

(Ne respondeas stulto iuxta stultitiam suam!!!)

~alphamale1980 Aug 10, 2012

It was originally an Armco plant. Bain bought the plant from Armco in 1993. The plant had made steel rods or "blanks" for 105 years when it was bought.

Armco later "partnered" with Kawasaki Steel Corporation to create AK Steel which is currently one of the largest steel conglomerates, and is currently a publicly traded company on the S&P 500 index. While called a "partnership" the new AK steel corporation has always been lead (both the President and the CEO) by former Armco executives.

~skulkey Aug 9, 2012 Hobbyist Digital Artist

pretty funny.

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