Forums: Is there a true God behind all religions?

>So what if there's a TRUE God behind all of them?
The question makes no sense if you know about tulpas.
All fictional/imagined entities given enough energy(prayer,ritual,focus, worship) become an incarnate entity(thought-form,tulpa,mental construct,egregore) which with mass support of believers becomes a new god(a minor god in the astral or mental plane).
The trueness of a god, is asking "is this entity created artificially or its a existing entity"? An actual astral entity can mimic any god and perform minor feats to encourage belief and feed on the faith energy rendered.
This comes to one of choices.
1.Entity is created by humans during worship
2.Entity enjoys worship by feeding on a belief system using mimicry and shapeshifiting to suit the needs of believers
3.Entity forced due circumstances to interact with 'believers' who begin to worship it and falls into relationship with them.
The source of "true ultimate evil behind Satan and every evil god" is the flawed multi-plane system itself(samsara) which presents many paths and opportunities to corruption and decay(reincarnating down) for all entities in it. Negative entities are not evil without a reason - they are victims of this system and try to lash out at it. They have corrupt beliefs that force them into a feedback loop that drag them down into their state.
Our concept of 'ultimate evil and ultimate good' are from dualistic philosophies that rationalize the flaws of the world as influence of evil opposed by equally powerful good. It doesn't make sense to desire evil for the sake of evil itself, so searching for the 'ultimate root of evil' is fruitless - its inherent in the system by design as the 'evil bit' that can be toggled on for everyone.

I am of the notion that religion is misguided and that it has the wrong idea of "God", but I do think there is a possibility of truth behind the concept of "God."

Just to clarify, I am an atheist and always have been. I have explored spiritual avenues like organised religion, asking questions, trying to experience it, but I never felt it or believed it. I am, however, a very spiritual person and always trying to find the truth to what we really are.

I think of "God" as the consciousness within all of us, we who are part of the manifestation of the universe. We are all from the same source, which likely goes back infinitely. We are all the same consciousness but it is the self that separates us as individuals. Without the self, there is only consciousness and love. "Love" is many thing; compassion, empathy, cooperation, family, friendship.) The self gives us survival instincts; fear, greed, jealousy, anger, hunger, pleasure, addiction, sex. The very things that make us quintessentially "real." We are the universe experiencing itself, to quote Carl Sagan.

Maybe I'm wrong. Who cares? I might find out when I die, but I won't have a brain to experience it.

On your closing question; I really don't believe in evil or evil gods/demons. This is where religion has been able to muscle in on morality. Good and evil are merely opposing perspectives. You can't think in such binary terms. The universe is chaos and we are driven by emotions, which makes things difficult and complex. Punishing people for asinine things like diet, attire, sexuality and the like is purely ego driven and is what happens when you put stupid animals in charge of morality, when we should be concentrating on how to help each other out and support each other. I believe we are getting there slowly though.

It's precisely your own ego, that makes you think "how DARE God limit my personal urges", though.
No matter how much you pretend that it's otherwise - atheism will still stay the most egotistical form of self-worship that a human can ever descend into.

Draggah-N

It's precisely your own ego, that makes you think, "how DARE they think, 'how DARE God limit my personal urges' though" though. No matter how much you pretend that it's otherwise - Judaism will stay the most egotistical form of god-worship that a human can ever descend into.

I hate to say it... but you're right. The religion of the superiority complex.

May 16, 2016

Superiority of God will always surpass that of a human - not that some humans have enough brains to understand this.

Draggah-N

At least in his case, anyway.

I don't think I've ever thought that. I just don't think "God" has any part to play in personal urges, as you put it. It's just the way our brains are wired. The reptillian part of the brain that drives us to survive, seek pleasure and procreate. Atheism can appear very cold and superficial, and yeah, I guess a bit self indulgent, but when I say "we", I mean all living things, not just humans. Humanity is not the only conscious species and it is not the only example of life in the universe (not that when you break it all down, there's much difference between living matter and non-living matter anyway.)

The only religions I can get behind are Buddhism and Paganism. I think Abrahamic religions are too humanly driven and have been used too often as an authoritarian tool by leaders and tribes in less enlightened times. At no point of writing this do I personally refer to God as an authoritarian being.

I don't claim to know the answers but when I think about it, these are the thoughts that make the most sense to me. Alan Watts could say everything I have with a lot more eloquence. I'm an atheist as opposed to agnostic, because I don't think it makes sense to believe in anything transcendental. If "god" is real, it's a part of nature. If "god" is a part of nature, we are a product and a part of "god." There is no ego involved. In fact, to shed the ego is to be closer to "god" and the true collective consciousness.

If I worship anything, I worship the universe and all it's inhabitants and mysteries.

Well, not the first time I see people confusing the practical application of something, with the theories behind it.
I just must tell you that if "religion drives people to do bad actions" - then, please, ban computers, television, knives, water, air, and life itself.
ALL of the above HAD been abused to HARM OTHERS in one way or another during the course of the human history - so by your logic, we should ban ALL of them and some more.
Do I need to show you HOW exactly each of those (and more) had been used for ABUSE - or do you know enough to see it by yourself?

You're putting words in my mouth and I'm not sure what you're doing other than trying to pick a fight (the way you interact with people is quite condescending and I don't think you give peoples' intelligence enough credit. We all ask these questions and I think we are all looking for the truth, as futile as that feels) I'm saying "I don't know, but this is the best idea I've got." I didn't say "religion drives people to do bad actions" (you literally cannot find that written anywhere in what I've said,) I merely suggested that it has been abused, and yeah, most things can be used to the point of abuse. You can take a gun and shoot cans or hunt for food, or you can shove it in someone's face and pull the trigger. I'm not naive dude. I don't see things in black and white. I also never suggested we ban religion. I don't think we should ban anything. If people are going to be shitty people, they're going to be shitty people, and sometimes they are in positions of power who have absurd notions on morality (Hitler, anyone?) Would you kill someone for being gay? Would you stone someone for wearing a mixture of fabrics? Do you condone slavery? I'm hoping you'll say no to all of these. You can do and believe anything you like as long as you aren't harming others and the environment. I would never attack your spiritual beliefs but if they are incompatible with society and you're making peoples' lives miserable, you're going to get persecuted, and rightly so. Jesus was the biggest badass in religious history. All he commanded was love for your fellow man.

I've come to the ideas that I have through my (admittedly fairly layman) understanding of scientific theory and the nature of the universe, and spiritual experiences that I myself have had and those of others. A few philosophers have also helped me shape my world view and it's led me to be happy and comfortable in myself and the world I inhabit. Many others here are at that point through means of their own, be it through religion or personal spirituality.

Religion is a mixed bag full of really good and really terrible ideas, and it's dragging its heels in weeding out those terrible ideas.

Well, I'm glad that you aren't that much "indoctrinated to atheism", then.

I see you still didn't realize that I'm Jewish, did ya?
Also, "love your fellow like yourself" had been written in the Torah over a thousand years before Christianity.
It's typical for "fanfictions" to infringe on the "canon copyrights", though.

*I* wouldn't WANT to kill anyone.
But *I* am not the one deciding, who is *worthy of being defined as GUILTY*.
Nor are any *humans* whatsoever, either.
(Judges only decide who IS guilty under the already decided definition of the law, not who is DEFINED as being guilty according TO that law.)
Only *God* IS.
The same God who DECIDED that "gays are against The Law" (and so are all the other *sins*) - is the same God who TOLD His people to JURIDICALLY ensure that gays get punished for a PUBLIC VIOLATION of The Law (or any other of those *sins*).
Your mistake is to assume that it MUST be *humans* that "invented" The Law - whereas it's actually *God* Himself who did it.
And your subsequent mistake is to assume that *God* is also a "human-made concept", effectively forcing you to assume that "no religion has the right to infringe on people's life (like you just said)", cause it's "human-made" in the first place.
I'm not gonna fight you to prove all of those wrong (which is kinda strange for me, but I think I like you too much to start pointlessly arguing about stuff we will NOT agree upon anyways) - but I really must tell you that these assumptions will fade away like fog, IF you invest enough time into LEARNING what *God* is actually about for REAL.
Cheers.

Thank you for the respectful recourse.

I must admit, if we were talking a couple years ago, I'd be beating you over the head with a science textbook. I have since opened my mind to the possibility that there is much more to what we can perceive with our senses or wonderful scientific tools and sensors, and I understand the importance of one's spirituality.

I actually did know that you're Jewish, but disregarded it, as it was irrelevant to me. I wasn't trying to argue a point or change your mind anyway, because I know you're the only person who can change your beliefs, not that you want to anyway, and it certainly wouldn't be productive to attack your beliefs. I just wanted to chime in on my interpretation. I used to argue on the internet all the time and quite frankly, I find it futile and exhausting. Nothing comes of it. It's much nicer to have a friendly discussion, don't you think?

Our perspectives are obviously very different and come from very different backgrounds. My parents aren't particularly spiritual but I've always been curious. I went to a British primary school which made us pray and sing hymns in assembly. I never bought into it. I tried paganism for a while but I didn't really know enough about it and lost interest. From then on I just didn't care and just wanted to know more about nature and cosmology (totally bought into the "science is the only thing we know, so fuck your god" thing.)
I'm 30 years into my lifetime and I'm constantly evolving, as are my ideas about the nature of the universe and whatever is running it. I have learned though that nothing matters as long as you're a decent, loving, compassionate person. We are lucky enough to experience life. Make the most of it, because no matter how much faith you have, there is always the possibility that you are wrong (not just you, but me and everyone else with their own beliefs and ideas.) I believe that we are all one. We are all brothers and sisters and should love, forgive and understand each other as such. I understand you. I may not agree with some of your beliefs but I understand, which makes it easy to empathise with you, so if you're right, I hope I do see that the god you perceive is real. I've got through life this far though and I haven't seen or felt it, but I have felt something infinitely vast, ancient, wise and interconnected in brief moments of my life through various experiences. You can call that God. I don't know what it is, but I feel it is in everything.

If you have the patience for it, stick some tunes on, have a doodle or something and listen to a bit of Alan Watts on youtube. He pretty much nails almost everything I can ever say on the subject and I think whatever denomination you hail from, his lectures can easily be appreciated. He has an uncanny eloquence and has a charming demeanor. Here's a link if you're curious; www.youtube.com/watch?v=eotyc1…

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GrumpyGinger

What if god was a cricket.
what if I'm god

May 9, 2016

So you are posing the question is there some logic behind religions' muddling attempts to explain creation?

The only logic behind religions attempts, is that... logically... the question needs to be asked.

The illogical answer, (God), they came up with is the stumbling block to getting at the truth. To know the truth first have to unknow the lie. The only way to unknow the lie is to imagine a world where there is absence of religious education/indoctrination. Impossible!

"...Enough to think that Truth can be:
come sit we... where the roses glow,
Indeed he knows not how to know
who knows not also how to unknow..."

From "The Kasidah" by R.F.Burton

May 9, 2016

You have no idea how hypocritical you are about "indoctrination", lol.

I don't want this to turn into a long discussion, but when you've stopped laughing please explain how I am a hypocrite.

I think I know enough about you from what you say in these forums, and you may think you are a free thinker, but fact is you are just another pea in the pod of your religion, by accident of birth. Tell me I'm wrong, tell me how you came to Judaism by studying the words of the great thinkers AND the imposters in their own languages.

If truth be know you are just another addict, without a free will or independent thought of your own. A slave to your addiction as much as any drug abuser or alcoholic.

"Again: in Hind, Chîn, Franguestân
that accident of birth befell,
Without our choice, our will, our voice:
Faith is an accident as well".

"Thy faith why false, my faith why true?
tis all the work of Thine and Mine,
The fond and foolish love of self
that makes the Mine excel the Thine"

I was never indoctrinated in Atheism. The only R.F.Burton book I saw when I was growing up was "The Perfumed Garden", which was left lying around for my self education. If I parrot him now it is because he says more eloquently what I have already learnt.

I broke away from indoctrinated faith of my own free will.

That's FACEPALM-ing, though.
As in: "this idiot is so stupid, it already hurts my huge forehead".

WHAT "imposters"?
Be specific, bozo.

Atheism is being spoon-fed to unsuspecting imbeciles through all sorts of propaganda.
Including the most common one that "all religious guys are sheep and/or dumb" - whereas the exact opposite is the factual truth, both on WHO and WHAT.
Now, let's see you PROVE ME RIGHT.

You want me to prove you right in a few words when you've spent every day of the week showing just how WRONG and THICK you are. Sorry, mission impossible, you're way ahead of me there.

1. Simple logic (where's yours?) ...you say I'm a hypocrite...I ask you to show me why...you come back with: I'm a hypocrite because I might be influenced by "all sorts of propaganda".

2. You ask for specifics of the imposters but you give me "all sorts" as an argument. Isn't that hypocritical or at least juvenile.... just like your abuse?.

3. Face it.... you haven't got an original thought, other than your more imbecilic interpretations of the moronic fables of your imposters.

4. Koshej: Wannabe writer, late 20th century, planet earth, may have some artistic and literary ability hampered by lack of free will, originality, lead by morons, endlessly repeats displays of stupidity and abusive behaviour, lives in a world of myths and mythical characters, exemplified by his avatar, deluded, insecure, mentally defective and unbalanced, hangs out on deviant art forums.

Thanks for PROVING ME RIGHT.

You're so ready to comply, it's really sweet.

I didn't know Vegeta represents Judaism in any way whatsoever - except that he *might* serve as an example of what true repentance does to people, I guess.