Kicking around an idea.
Now I'm sure I'll annoy people but i need to refine my concepts, if not for real life (because I'm no leader by heart and little more than an ideas man) then maybe I could write a book or essay on the subject. .
I'm trying to hammer out what religion is truly about, a guide book to humanity and ethics, community, social inclusion, ritual and ceremony for focusing the mind and at one point, one of the last bastions for learning in a brutal world (after it decimated certain point by it). To me religion is little more than a kind of psychological profile of a culture, hence its mutability in transition between forms.
My reasoning for why it's a guide post to humanity is it often has stories and allegories to the human condition via symbolism and imagery. From the studies I have done symbolism is intensely powerful to the subconscious mind because it is how it functions over the conscious mind. Anyway here it goes
Consider a "religion" based on man, its sanctity and responsibilities in the universe and and a rational guide post to both how to learn, how to be human and how we may achieve focus, community and greater forging of the will, spirit and direction of our species.
But then again I envision a Monastic setting where people go to shut out the world for a time, to focus and learn and self improve, like a combination of western and eastern monasticism with all the fluff thrown away so there is only Mankind, the world, the cosmos and our place within. Now imagine those people now capable of going out and articulating those thoughts unto their fellow man and spreading the glory of who we are as a creature as well as our perceived destiny of exploring the cosmos. Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity. I aim to fix that and have our humanity outstrip our technology.
I'm trying to hammer out what religion is truly about, a guide book to humanity and ethics, community, social inclusion, ritual and ceremony for focusing the mind and at one point, one of the last bastions for learning in a brutal world (after it decimated certain point by it). To me religion is little more than a kind of psychological profile of a culture, hence its mutability in transition between forms.
My reasoning for why it's a guide post to humanity is it often has stories and allegories to the human condition via symbolism and imagery. From the studies I have done symbolism is intensely powerful to the subconscious mind because it is how it functions over the conscious mind. Anyway here it goes
Consider a "religion" based on man, its sanctity and responsibilities in the universe and and a rational guide post to both how to learn, how to be human and how we may achieve focus, community and greater forging of the will, spirit and direction of our species.
But then again I envision a Monastic setting where people go to shut out the world for a time, to focus and learn and self improve, like a combination of western and eastern monasticism with all the fluff thrown away so there is only Mankind, the world, the cosmos and our place within. Now imagine those people now capable of going out and articulating those thoughts unto their fellow man and spreading the glory of who we are as a creature as well as our perceived destiny of exploring the cosmos. Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity. I aim to fix that and have our humanity outstrip our technology.
Comments26
Join the community to add your comment. Already a deviant? Log In
I consider religion rituals. But I'm a Christian and I don't consider it a religion. I consider it a lifestyle. It covers everything I see in life and effects every decision I make, it effects where I'm going in the future and it effects every day of every minute of my life. God is in every part of my life and I have a personal relationship with Him. I have struggled in and out of faith, what with all the "evidence" otherwise. But it's surprising, if you look on the internet you will find answers everywhere. On both sides. You'll see, it's not so easy to pinpoint the evidence from the lies. If you search up "Is global warming real" you'll find evidence on BOTH sides whether it is or isn't. And they're both actually pretty convincing when you know where the right places are to look. Separating the truth from the lies is no easy task. I've researched constantly, seeking answers where there's a fine line between truth and lie. And in the end, it all comes down to faith. Because the truth and lies are so mixed up together than no human can sort them all out.
But I know God is real. I see His hand in my life and in other people's lives. I know a man who is allergic to water. Which means he can't eat or drink anything. If he does he gets life threatening sickness. He should. Not. Be. Alive. The doctors told him he shouldn't be alive. He doesn't eat or drink anything and no human can survive on that. But he told me that God was keeping him alive without the use of food. He also survived some pretty terrible life threatening injuries like getting hit by a car while riding his bike. He said one time, on his birthday, God told him he could eat whatever he wanted just for that day because it was his birthday. So he ate all the sushi he wanted and never got sick. But only for that one day could he eat anything.
God doesn't always speak in words. Sometimes He reaches out and makes it really obvious He exists in other ways. It was a couple days after my boyfriend had broken up with me and I was absolutely heartbroken. So depressed in fact that I was seriously considering suicide. I felt so hopeless, like there was nothing left to live for because everything I loved in life had been taken away. My boyfriend had changed me so much, he had gotten me to fall in love with his dreams while abandoning mine because it was his way or the highway. But I loved him so much it took so much work to adapt to his dreams. But once they were mine I couldn't shake them off. And when he left me I was left with all his dreams and no longer held any emotion for my old ones. I felt broken in every single way, he'd taken my faith with him because he had converted back to atheism from all the "evidence" he found. He was extremely manipulative and he could make me believe almost anything. So when he left I was left with nothing but all his ideas and it was pointless because everything I had given up for all those things he loved left me nowhere in the end. Anyway long story short, I felt I had nothing to live for. There was not a waking moment in the year following that I wouldn't feel like the world was ending every morning I woke up. But it was a week after he broke up with me that something weird happened.
In the midst of my deepest sadness, where I could not stop sobbing, begging God to bring the man I loved back into my life, I felt instant peace. It was like a heaviness that pushed all the other emotions out of me. It was like a heavy thing, like water or air had filled every crevice of me and all my pain disappeared only to leave a heavy peacefulness in its place. This was nice at first, but after I realized God wasn't going to bring the man I loved back, I got angry with Him for giving me peace. I tried to push past the peace, to cry, to hold onto my pain. I was so stubborn. If God didn't give me who I wanted I was going to keep my pain. He wasn't going to bribe me with peace. But no matter what, I just could NOT push away His peace. It was like he was forcing it upon me even if I didn't want it.
And my whole life, even though it was in pain for that entire year, amidst my deepest pain I found God, the deepest joy. I changed completely, He transformed me into an extremely joyful person who loved many others, even though my boyfriend had accused me of having a cold heart who could never love anyone and went on his way. And it was kind of true, it's always been very hard for me to feel emotions to people. I latch onto certain people and get obsessed with them and then others I just never even notice. In general I am pretty anti social and kind of numb towards the human race. It's very hard for me to get close to someone but once I do you just can't get rid of me. Anyway, instantly I was in love with the human race, everything about me was transformed. God used my pain for the other. And he used it to help other people's pain.
Now of course, no one is going to believe my experience. People want evidence, not personal evidences or testimonies. People want the science. But see, I have researched for a very long time and I have come up with plenty of evidences for the existence of God and it doesn't matter what evidence I have gathered because people will go on believing what they will. You will always be able to find another website to disprove the other one on BOTH sides. So who can know the truth? There is only faith left. And only those who have the mercy of the Holy Spirit resting upon them will be able to breach that faith, because it is almost impossible to sort out the truth from the lies.
But I know God is real. I see His hand in my life and in other people's lives. I know a man who is allergic to water. Which means he can't eat or drink anything. If he does he gets life threatening sickness. He should. Not. Be. Alive. The doctors told him he shouldn't be alive. He doesn't eat or drink anything and no human can survive on that. But he told me that God was keeping him alive without the use of food. He also survived some pretty terrible life threatening injuries like getting hit by a car while riding his bike. He said one time, on his birthday, God told him he could eat whatever he wanted just for that day because it was his birthday. So he ate all the sushi he wanted and never got sick. But only for that one day could he eat anything.
God doesn't always speak in words. Sometimes He reaches out and makes it really obvious He exists in other ways. It was a couple days after my boyfriend had broken up with me and I was absolutely heartbroken. So depressed in fact that I was seriously considering suicide. I felt so hopeless, like there was nothing left to live for because everything I loved in life had been taken away. My boyfriend had changed me so much, he had gotten me to fall in love with his dreams while abandoning mine because it was his way or the highway. But I loved him so much it took so much work to adapt to his dreams. But once they were mine I couldn't shake them off. And when he left me I was left with all his dreams and no longer held any emotion for my old ones. I felt broken in every single way, he'd taken my faith with him because he had converted back to atheism from all the "evidence" he found. He was extremely manipulative and he could make me believe almost anything. So when he left I was left with nothing but all his ideas and it was pointless because everything I had given up for all those things he loved left me nowhere in the end. Anyway long story short, I felt I had nothing to live for. There was not a waking moment in the year following that I wouldn't feel like the world was ending every morning I woke up. But it was a week after he broke up with me that something weird happened.
In the midst of my deepest sadness, where I could not stop sobbing, begging God to bring the man I loved back into my life, I felt instant peace. It was like a heaviness that pushed all the other emotions out of me. It was like a heavy thing, like water or air had filled every crevice of me and all my pain disappeared only to leave a heavy peacefulness in its place. This was nice at first, but after I realized God wasn't going to bring the man I loved back, I got angry with Him for giving me peace. I tried to push past the peace, to cry, to hold onto my pain. I was so stubborn. If God didn't give me who I wanted I was going to keep my pain. He wasn't going to bribe me with peace. But no matter what, I just could NOT push away His peace. It was like he was forcing it upon me even if I didn't want it.
And my whole life, even though it was in pain for that entire year, amidst my deepest pain I found God, the deepest joy. I changed completely, He transformed me into an extremely joyful person who loved many others, even though my boyfriend had accused me of having a cold heart who could never love anyone and went on his way. And it was kind of true, it's always been very hard for me to feel emotions to people. I latch onto certain people and get obsessed with them and then others I just never even notice. In general I am pretty anti social and kind of numb towards the human race. It's very hard for me to get close to someone but once I do you just can't get rid of me. Anyway, instantly I was in love with the human race, everything about me was transformed. God used my pain for the other. And he used it to help other people's pain.
Now of course, no one is going to believe my experience. People want evidence, not personal evidences or testimonies. People want the science. But see, I have researched for a very long time and I have come up with plenty of evidences for the existence of God and it doesn't matter what evidence I have gathered because people will go on believing what they will. You will always be able to find another website to disprove the other one on BOTH sides. So who can know the truth? There is only faith left. And only those who have the mercy of the Holy Spirit resting upon them will be able to breach that faith, because it is almost impossible to sort out the truth from the lies.
Well that's all fine and dandy but that was a very minor point in my post which has to do with the merit of secular monasticism (Non-religious affiliated Monk organization) and if not a religious affiliation of mankind than some sort of earnest philosophy lest we all march down to extinction.
As I said, ritual is fundamental to the human brain. It is a means of establishing structures which facilitate interactions. I have to disagree with the article you cited which states that rituals have no, “practical relationship between the means one chooses to achieve certain ends.”The act of shaking hands has a very practical purpose. It demonstrates non-aggression. The empty hand, in cultures where people routinely went around armed, demonstrated trust and benign intent. We continue the ritual today, even though we no longer go around visibly armed (well, most of us do anyway). It is still a useful ritual which conveys a necessary message.
Ritual is a constant in society. Some evolve naturally, like the formal dinner cited in the article, and other arise from conscious design, like Comic-Con. Attending a sporting event is replete with rituals, like doing "The Wave". The fact that there is seemingly less ritual in society speaks to the lack of community in modern society. Religious ritual is simply failing in its purpose. People feel compelled to claim belief, but if religious ritual were beneficial to enhancing that belief people would be doing it. These are empty rituals performed in the name of a specious purpose, the reinforcement of an existential conspiracy of agreement.
The problem is, these existential questions are boooring. They lead nowhere. They are a trap and cause the weak minded to embrace self-deluded certitude over healthy, rational skepticism. These are questions for children, and they should be told to think, not to blindly accept spiritual rule-books. If a ritual or symbology is needed to help children deal with these questions, how about a Sesame Street approach, Elmo Explains Existentialism? The Cookie Monster can use cookies to explain the universe.
This is not to suggest that philosophers shouldn't explore existentialism. Of course they should. And if they ever come up with something interesting, they should certainly let us know. I'm just saying that rituals pertaining to existential questions are no longer viable. Should something else take their place? Maybe. Maybe we need rituals to celebrate a commitment to nature. A means by which we can reinforce our connection to the world around us. Maybe that's the answer to the lack of ritual you're concerned with. Certainly I agree that there is a serious lack of values in modern society. I also believe that the human mind contains the capacity for transcendence of the mundane. Art, science and philosophy all offer opportunities to transcend the known. We should celebrate these things and use them to bind communities. I don't know how to consciously create useful rituals which would achieve that purpose. If you can figure it out, I'd be all for it.
Ritual is a constant in society. Some evolve naturally, like the formal dinner cited in the article, and other arise from conscious design, like Comic-Con. Attending a sporting event is replete with rituals, like doing "The Wave". The fact that there is seemingly less ritual in society speaks to the lack of community in modern society. Religious ritual is simply failing in its purpose. People feel compelled to claim belief, but if religious ritual were beneficial to enhancing that belief people would be doing it. These are empty rituals performed in the name of a specious purpose, the reinforcement of an existential conspiracy of agreement.
The problem is, these existential questions are boooring. They lead nowhere. They are a trap and cause the weak minded to embrace self-deluded certitude over healthy, rational skepticism. These are questions for children, and they should be told to think, not to blindly accept spiritual rule-books. If a ritual or symbology is needed to help children deal with these questions, how about a Sesame Street approach, Elmo Explains Existentialism? The Cookie Monster can use cookies to explain the universe.
This is not to suggest that philosophers shouldn't explore existentialism. Of course they should. And if they ever come up with something interesting, they should certainly let us know. I'm just saying that rituals pertaining to existential questions are no longer viable. Should something else take their place? Maybe. Maybe we need rituals to celebrate a commitment to nature. A means by which we can reinforce our connection to the world around us. Maybe that's the answer to the lack of ritual you're concerned with. Certainly I agree that there is a serious lack of values in modern society. I also believe that the human mind contains the capacity for transcendence of the mundane. Art, science and philosophy all offer opportunities to transcend the known. We should celebrate these things and use them to bind communities. I don't know how to consciously create useful rituals which would achieve that purpose. If you can figure it out, I'd be all for it.
Well apart from all (Which is a very nice in depth look at both your opinion on the subject as well as the subject at hand. What about the central point of this all? Secular Monasticism, Good Idea, Bad idea, ok idea might be interesting if nothing else?
I'm not sure what you envision a secular monastery to be. I associate monastic life with extremism. Benign, but extreme. You seem to be talking more about a vacation. I could see community, nature and certain philosophic ideas to be a valid basis for a secular religion, something to promote values which could give people hope and meaning without resorting to fantasy and myth, but how it would be practiced, I have no clue. It's got to be able to compete with celebrity culture, fanatical sport fandom, gluttony and all the other opiates of the masses. Better make it fun as well as meaningful.
How about Bonobo-Land? Bonobos utilize sex as a means of conflict resolution. Now that would be a popular way to promote a secular religion. Peace through love. A place where people could put "make love. not war" into practice.
How about Bonobo-Land? Bonobos utilize sex as a means of conflict resolution. Now that would be a popular way to promote a secular religion. Peace through love. A place where people could put "make love. not war" into practice.
Fantasy? I fail to see how things that happened historically are "fantasy".
I could give more of my reasons on why I but I feel you've made up your mind already so I won't bother.
I could give more of my reasons on why I but I feel you've made up your mind already so I won't bother.
LOL. Made up my mind about what? My reference to fantasy and myth was a comment on the nature of religion. Religious people postulate a "magic man in the sky". They imbue this dude with aspects and attributes and decide what "he" wants us to do, then devise punishments for disobeying "him" and rewards for being compliant.
You are suggesting (vaguely) a secular religion. Something which utilizes the natural human affinity for ritual and symbology, but which is not based on these kinds of wholly invented underpinnings. I have no idea what historical events you're talking about.
I still think the idea has some merit. I mentioned the Ethical Culture Society, and their attempts to create a secular religion. It hasn't worked, at least so far, and they've been at it quite a while. At the same time, traditional religious ceremonies and symbols are failing. Nothing has yet taken their place, and instead fairly empty rituals predominate. A secular religion is an interesting concept, but I have yet to hear anything concrete from you. Why shouldn't sex play a part in such an endeavor, just the way it did in Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land". That was a secular religion I might be able to get behind.
You are suggesting (vaguely) a secular religion. Something which utilizes the natural human affinity for ritual and symbology, but which is not based on these kinds of wholly invented underpinnings. I have no idea what historical events you're talking about.
I still think the idea has some merit. I mentioned the Ethical Culture Society, and their attempts to create a secular religion. It hasn't worked, at least so far, and they've been at it quite a while. At the same time, traditional religious ceremonies and symbols are failing. Nothing has yet taken their place, and instead fairly empty rituals predominate. A secular religion is an interesting concept, but I have yet to hear anything concrete from you. Why shouldn't sex play a part in such an endeavor, just the way it did in Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land". That was a secular religion I might be able to get behind.
Oh, well I am sorry I assumed, hmm, for what's it is worth I'm sorry and I will try my best to articulate my ideas better (also the symbology thing is rather just a side thought. If it's not necessary it doesn't need to exist.) Mostly the whole point of the idea of Monasticism to me is cutting out the fat of life so that one can focus better on what is important. Here this is what I got for a short blurb.
I'd like to think it's more of an experiment than an actual thing, the religion part is just a kind of unifying force, something to belong to that "normal" people oft long for. Something that the laity can digest quickly but won't lie to them, also some might find it offensive but I think it should be, if not steeped in, but placed in Human Exceptionalism, at least from a practical stand point.
But apart from that I'm more interested in a system or organization that does several things that really don't pertain to the normal person, kind of like a force that gives up its time that the rest of man may be unburdened by such things.
Alright I've found lot's of other ideas I've written and for better or worse I'll will put them here and tell what you think, if they are to vague I'll be glad to devote a long time to thinking. My biggest problem however is my mind is oft cloudy and lacking the focus of any genius or great writer, else I'd have already succeeded in some sort of endeavor in my life rather than just being mired in my constant failures.
Query: Why develop a secular monastic order?
Answer: The austerity, humility and focus acquired from living such a life would be perfect for those who wish to honestly serve mankind. Time devoted to study, meditation and research would be fulfilling.
Additional Thoughts: However we must not fall into the irrational thoughts of the the non-secular monastic orders. We must ground rules in reality, work our real dietary needs yet still being as simple as possible. What spiritual techniques actually work to focus the mind and body? Indeed we must also answer the question of what philosophy makes the most sense for this? Humanism of a purer form may be the most efficient. Trying to perfect the complete man, a skilled warrior, a brilliant mind, a kind heart and a self less attitude. Let us not fall into further pitfalls by thinking celibacy is an effective too for focusing the mind as well. Further is there a need to separate the genders here? I think not, integrated male and female monastery could be possible, unless it becomes burdensome.
This one I came up for might be actually fantasy more than anything, probably no merit here.
Goal: Monastic Trans-humanist Order
Why?: To create a group of people and their supporters who will usher Mankind into a new age and the new stage of Evolution.
Purposes: They will be part Scientist, Philosopher, Warrior and Arbitrator, men and women whom transcended humanity yet embraced the most positive aspects of human nature. They will be the Guardians of Man. If nations fall these armored individuals will spread learning and light to them, if nations bicker they will try to reason, if we as a people have need they will seek out those answers and ultimately they will be custodian to the greatest collection of works penned by the hands of Mankind.
They will be the culmination of all current human knowledge and effort, partially a work of genetic and mechanical art, educated extensively, drilled in ethics, with an access to the depths of knowledge and the ability to simplify it for consumption amongst the populace. For the truth is men are inspired by deed as much as word, they must be heroes of a new age. If we falter and fall, they will be there to pick up the pieces as the firebrands of reason and order.
If nothing else, it might make a good book to read . . . . if only I could keep my thoughts together for more than five minutes . . . and also stop having all my good ideas at work.
And this I wrote as argument against a particularly vehement group of anti-progress people speaking of purity of nature or some sort of wide eyed garbage like that.
For those wretched cowards who wish to dwell in the past and with the false platitudes of hope that they think nature brings let me offer this. We can go no further as we are now, we aren't going evolve into space and we aren't going to suddenly become psychic energy (As far as empirical science is concerned those are fairy tales). You see the future before you and shrink back!
What you should be concerned about is philosophy and the culture that these will need to have with them. You want to keep your humanity?! Develop a culture that defines the creature, that gives reason and ability to create the Terran in you, your children, whatever face you wear. Machine, flesh, we are marginally defined by the flesh, but also defined by the mind and its intangibles. That is the true soul of mankind: the gamut, the spectrum being, the creature in transition.
We weren't always this beast nor will we be it forever. Change will come, but the truth is: Change also depends on what you bring into it. If you bring your mewling, fear driven, cowardice, your movie and religion defined mythos into it we will destroy ourselves. If you embrace your humanity fully only the Man and Woman may enter into the new age. Pack the essentials, leave the dross behind, the New Age began a decade ago, you're just too distracted to notice.
The creation of a Self Sustainable ascetic community dedicated to:
• self education,
• the pursuit of personal enlightenment,
• the development of physical prowess through martial arts training
• the refinement of the understanding the role of the survival of the species.
We dedicate our lives to not only humanism but Warrior Monasticism, asceticism, philosophy and community.
I'd like to think it's more of an experiment than an actual thing, the religion part is just a kind of unifying force, something to belong to that "normal" people oft long for. Something that the laity can digest quickly but won't lie to them, also some might find it offensive but I think it should be, if not steeped in, but placed in Human Exceptionalism, at least from a practical stand point.
But apart from that I'm more interested in a system or organization that does several things that really don't pertain to the normal person, kind of like a force that gives up its time that the rest of man may be unburdened by such things.
Alright I've found lot's of other ideas I've written and for better or worse I'll will put them here and tell what you think, if they are to vague I'll be glad to devote a long time to thinking. My biggest problem however is my mind is oft cloudy and lacking the focus of any genius or great writer, else I'd have already succeeded in some sort of endeavor in my life rather than just being mired in my constant failures.
Query: Why develop a secular monastic order?
Answer: The austerity, humility and focus acquired from living such a life would be perfect for those who wish to honestly serve mankind. Time devoted to study, meditation and research would be fulfilling.
Additional Thoughts: However we must not fall into the irrational thoughts of the the non-secular monastic orders. We must ground rules in reality, work our real dietary needs yet still being as simple as possible. What spiritual techniques actually work to focus the mind and body? Indeed we must also answer the question of what philosophy makes the most sense for this? Humanism of a purer form may be the most efficient. Trying to perfect the complete man, a skilled warrior, a brilliant mind, a kind heart and a self less attitude. Let us not fall into further pitfalls by thinking celibacy is an effective too for focusing the mind as well. Further is there a need to separate the genders here? I think not, integrated male and female monastery could be possible, unless it becomes burdensome.
This one I came up for might be actually fantasy more than anything, probably no merit here.
Goal: Monastic Trans-humanist Order
Why?: To create a group of people and their supporters who will usher Mankind into a new age and the new stage of Evolution.
Purposes: They will be part Scientist, Philosopher, Warrior and Arbitrator, men and women whom transcended humanity yet embraced the most positive aspects of human nature. They will be the Guardians of Man. If nations fall these armored individuals will spread learning and light to them, if nations bicker they will try to reason, if we as a people have need they will seek out those answers and ultimately they will be custodian to the greatest collection of works penned by the hands of Mankind.
They will be the culmination of all current human knowledge and effort, partially a work of genetic and mechanical art, educated extensively, drilled in ethics, with an access to the depths of knowledge and the ability to simplify it for consumption amongst the populace. For the truth is men are inspired by deed as much as word, they must be heroes of a new age. If we falter and fall, they will be there to pick up the pieces as the firebrands of reason and order.
If nothing else, it might make a good book to read . . . . if only I could keep my thoughts together for more than five minutes . . . and also stop having all my good ideas at work.
And this I wrote as argument against a particularly vehement group of anti-progress people speaking of purity of nature or some sort of wide eyed garbage like that.
For those wretched cowards who wish to dwell in the past and with the false platitudes of hope that they think nature brings let me offer this. We can go no further as we are now, we aren't going evolve into space and we aren't going to suddenly become psychic energy (As far as empirical science is concerned those are fairy tales). You see the future before you and shrink back!
What you should be concerned about is philosophy and the culture that these will need to have with them. You want to keep your humanity?! Develop a culture that defines the creature, that gives reason and ability to create the Terran in you, your children, whatever face you wear. Machine, flesh, we are marginally defined by the flesh, but also defined by the mind and its intangibles. That is the true soul of mankind: the gamut, the spectrum being, the creature in transition.
We weren't always this beast nor will we be it forever. Change will come, but the truth is: Change also depends on what you bring into it. If you bring your mewling, fear driven, cowardice, your movie and religion defined mythos into it we will destroy ourselves. If you embrace your humanity fully only the Man and Woman may enter into the new age. Pack the essentials, leave the dross behind, the New Age began a decade ago, you're just too distracted to notice.
Symbology and ritual are reflections of the way our brains are structured. Religion is merely an attempt to use our brains to answer unanswerable questions. We use symbology and ritual in religion, but that doesn't mean that it's necessary to create a secular religion to advance humankind. The roots of ethical behavior and a meaningful approach to life are not found in religion, they're found in the human brain. In logic and philosophy. The root of all evil, imo, is the desperate need for certitude regarding existential matters. Be resigned to your limitations and revel in your abilities. You don't need a secular religion to achieve that.
All we need to do is tell children, when they ask "hey, where did I come from?" "We don't know know kiddo, but it's a wild ride. Grow, self actualize and leave the rest alone. " These absurd, mass conspiracies of agreement we call religion are a betrayal of our intellect. The Ethical Culture Society tries to wrap rational philosophy in religious ritual. I don't see the point.
All we need to do is tell children, when they ask "hey, where did I come from?" "We don't know know kiddo, but it's a wild ride. Grow, self actualize and leave the rest alone. " These absurd, mass conspiracies of agreement we call religion are a betrayal of our intellect. The Ethical Culture Society tries to wrap rational philosophy in religious ritual. I don't see the point.
Aha here it is, take of it what you will. www.artofmanliness.com/2013/12…
Way of focusing the mind I suppose hmm, hold on lemme find an article I rather enjoyed and I'll get back to you.
looking into the evolution of religion, from animism/shamanism to ancestor worship, might help refine your understanding of religion a bit.
when you take the spiritual aspects out of organized religion, what are you left with? it's a means of control, and little more. very infrequently does it deal with human potential (with the notable exception of Buddhism, perhaps). even then, dogma makes it stagnant - there is no forward movement. what you need is to promote a worldview that values progress. spirituality can be, and may be a necessary ingredient of, a progressive worldview. care must be taken to avoid dogma, stagnation, and control, though.
when you take the spiritual aspects out of organized religion, what are you left with? it's a means of control, and little more. very infrequently does it deal with human potential (with the notable exception of Buddhism, perhaps). even then, dogma makes it stagnant - there is no forward movement. what you need is to promote a worldview that values progress. spirituality can be, and may be a necessary ingredient of, a progressive worldview. care must be taken to avoid dogma, stagnation, and control, though.
Spiritually is an aspect I care . . . eh maybe 15% about in this subject. Perhaps I've gone off on a tangent and come off as caring more about this but this is more about an idea for a Secular Monastic setting. If the word religion is to strong then a better one may be found, I just find that ritual (something we all do everyday), to be a deep part of our existence, not so much in a religious context but in it's necessity for we as Mankind.
Progressive as a noun I can take, Progressive as a general ideology, meh. THis not an aim to take over the world with a concept but rather to shake people awake. So many times does my ire get raised from the word "Sheeple". All minds are plastic and can be jarred into thinking again if we can but find the way to rouse ourselves.
Well it's either that or de-evolution and/or extinction.
Also I like the concept of the Orders both Military and Otherwise from the Middle ages, so interesting, organized and focused in intent.
Progressive as a noun I can take, Progressive as a general ideology, meh. THis not an aim to take over the world with a concept but rather to shake people awake. So many times does my ire get raised from the word "Sheeple". All minds are plastic and can be jarred into thinking again if we can but find the way to rouse ourselves.
Well it's either that or de-evolution and/or extinction.
Also I like the concept of the Orders both Military and Otherwise from the Middle ages, so interesting, organized and focused in intent.
secular is a good thing, and something to strive for. it's sorely lacking, i think. spirituality comes naturally to some people, as a result of personal experience, so it's not a bad thing. it goes ill when people get sucked into an organized religion.
and i didn't mean progressive in terms of the political/social movement, but rather an attitude of progress. realizing the full human potential, as you stated.
jarring people awake is a very difficult task, though. sometimes it takes a powerful experience to do so. it seems that the majority of people take the easy path. i hate the term "sheeple" as well, but there is something to the herd mentality involved that needs to be solved.
i'm wary of most orders because of certain tendencies towards dogmatism and rule by power. i want to liberate people, not enslave them.
and i didn't mean progressive in terms of the political/social movement, but rather an attitude of progress. realizing the full human potential, as you stated.
jarring people awake is a very difficult task, though. sometimes it takes a powerful experience to do so. it seems that the majority of people take the easy path. i hate the term "sheeple" as well, but there is something to the herd mentality involved that needs to be solved.
i'm wary of most orders because of certain tendencies towards dogmatism and rule by power. i want to liberate people, not enslave them.
Best way is perhaps an oath of service. Those who sacrifice their life and time so that others may live free. I'd gladly give it up for another man, I even tried when I tried to join the military, the problem is of course, in the venue there is vested interest.
i'm an anarchist, so i actually believe that military service is the duty of everyone in the collective (but only in the case of defense). most people think anarchists are a bunch of lawless hoodlums, but if you look into the principles of anarchism and anarchist law you realize nothing could be further from the truth. i see anarchism as the only way to maximize freedom while maintaining responsibility.
I like the idea of a New Feudalism. Where in everyone gets together and "Makes Up a Lord" to live in the castle and then everyone get's their land for farming, the rest is commons and belongs to everyone, everyone to graze everyone to spend time on.
The Castle or central area is basically nothing more than a local administrative function for keeping track of everyone's donation of food items for the coming winter as well as organizing and paying people to protect the local populous. And like the original feudalism all justice is administrated by the Court Leet, which is a judge and jury of one's peers . . . . held in the local pub. Usually for land agreement violations and minor fines, though a man could be tried for murder in the court.
Probably wouldn't work in this day and age but it could be a fun social experiment if nothing else.
The Castle or central area is basically nothing more than a local administrative function for keeping track of everyone's donation of food items for the coming winter as well as organizing and paying people to protect the local populous. And like the original feudalism all justice is administrated by the Court Leet, which is a judge and jury of one's peers . . . . held in the local pub. Usually for land agreement violations and minor fines, though a man could be tried for murder in the court.
Probably wouldn't work in this day and age but it could be a fun social experiment if nothing else.
There's plenty of literature, only it's rather unpopular due to its ultra-rightwing, ultra-conservatist anti-egalitarian, entropic-against-progressive ideology, esoteric depth and philosophical professionalism:
René Guénon (Christianity, Islam)
Julius Evola (mostly politosophy, Alchemy, Hinduism)
Frithjof Schuon
Ananda Kentish Coomaraswamy
Leo Schaya (Kabbalah, Islam)
Othmar Spann (Universalist sociophilosophy)
András László (Magical Solipsism)
René Guénon (Christianity, Islam)
Julius Evola (mostly politosophy, Alchemy, Hinduism)
Frithjof Schuon
Ananda Kentish Coomaraswamy
Leo Schaya (Kabbalah, Islam)
Othmar Spann (Universalist sociophilosophy)
András László (Magical Solipsism)
I can't say that I( care for anything that swings to far left or right. A wretched weakness and the political equivalent of over specialization, like some sort of political party. There's no balance, no ability to flex, Left and right are so rigid they will snap at the trunk one day.
Also while this addresses like one aspect of my post, I think, I don't feel it adds much to the discussion, all you said was there was plenty of literature which I don't really think I was asking for? I'm not sure but I'd rather read something approaching all in psychology, how mental states in religion affect us as humans and how we can bend that to our advantage. How can we make people great leaders of mankind and create a new culture based on both reflection and action while still keeping the rights and dignity or Mankind?
Also while this addresses like one aspect of my post, I think, I don't feel it adds much to the discussion, all you said was there was plenty of literature which I don't really think I was asking for? I'm not sure but I'd rather read something approaching all in psychology, how mental states in religion affect us as humans and how we can bend that to our advantage. How can we make people great leaders of mankind and create a new culture based on both reflection and action while still keeping the rights and dignity or Mankind?
"I'm trying to hammer out what religion is truly about" -- its a signpost and a service.
"To me religion is little more than a kind of psychological profile of a culture," -- yep, liberals dont realise just how christian they are, they assume that what they think is somehow progressive but the best parts of liberalism is what they inherited from christianity. but thats a different talk for a different day.
You made a good observation all the same.
"Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity." -- yep, the problem as i see it is information overload.
"To me religion is little more than a kind of psychological profile of a culture," -- yep, liberals dont realise just how christian they are, they assume that what they think is somehow progressive but the best parts of liberalism is what they inherited from christianity. but thats a different talk for a different day.
You made a good observation all the same.
"Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity." -- yep, the problem as i see it is information overload.
Oh I agree completely, classical education, the liberal arts are all based in chivalry and the christian value of treating one's fellow man like an equal under god. History is a long and rambling road and as a medievalist I get to see it pretty easily, especially since these were all born in this period. A good look at this is here www.idokan.pl/images/txt/tomXI… by a rather controversial figure in the field I pursue: HEMA (Historical Eruopean Martial Arts)
In fact I am such a proponent of Classical Education that I have helped find latin sources for translation excercises for a very new Christian Academy that was just made in my area focusing on classical education and while it is christian, it is pursuing a non-denominational doctrine which is alright by me. (I myself was raised Lutheran and I oft have a fondness for it, I just really don't see the point in worshiping gods per se. To me the concept of an afterlife is one of the biggest insults to human endeavor, on top of that why worship something that is there? It's like worshiping a table, and if gods do exists, it's best not to encourage them all the same.)
Though in general I don't consider myself either Liberal or Conservative because I feel these are to constraining, I, like everything, exists in an inborn spectrum: morality, Klines (What people erroneously call race), the rainbow, wavelengths, all the same pattern.
"Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity." -- yep, the problem as i see it is information overload. --
Not just information overload, to my mind, but rather we have this shell of technology around us all the while I still essentially am the same man as forty thousand years ago (minus the training received to survive that age). We have not grown as a people in the wake of this, because our culture has no concept of training people (anymore) for anything other than the business of selling one's effort, time and skills. Everything is made to pursue monetary remuneration, rather than being able to learn to master themselves (economics should be secondary or even tertiary). In fact I get very annoyed being defined by an economic motivation, like socialist or capitalist, I am no damned merchant and will not be addressed as such. I have no opinion on business, it sorts itself out if people are trained to understand and to think, efficiency will ultimately prevail.
I feel I have rambled a bit, for that I apologize.
I hope this adds to the discussion.
In fact I am such a proponent of Classical Education that I have helped find latin sources for translation excercises for a very new Christian Academy that was just made in my area focusing on classical education and while it is christian, it is pursuing a non-denominational doctrine which is alright by me. (I myself was raised Lutheran and I oft have a fondness for it, I just really don't see the point in worshiping gods per se. To me the concept of an afterlife is one of the biggest insults to human endeavor, on top of that why worship something that is there? It's like worshiping a table, and if gods do exists, it's best not to encourage them all the same.)
Though in general I don't consider myself either Liberal or Conservative because I feel these are to constraining, I, like everything, exists in an inborn spectrum: morality, Klines (What people erroneously call race), the rainbow, wavelengths, all the same pattern.
"Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity." -- yep, the problem as i see it is information overload. --
Not just information overload, to my mind, but rather we have this shell of technology around us all the while I still essentially am the same man as forty thousand years ago (minus the training received to survive that age). We have not grown as a people in the wake of this, because our culture has no concept of training people (anymore) for anything other than the business of selling one's effort, time and skills. Everything is made to pursue monetary remuneration, rather than being able to learn to master themselves (economics should be secondary or even tertiary). In fact I get very annoyed being defined by an economic motivation, like socialist or capitalist, I am no damned merchant and will not be addressed as such. I have no opinion on business, it sorts itself out if people are trained to understand and to think, efficiency will ultimately prevail.
I feel I have rambled a bit, for that I apologize.
I hope this adds to the discussion.
"the liberal arts are all based in chivalry and the christian value of treating one's fellow man like an equal under god." -- good luck trying to get the libtard to admit it, They think they were the ones who thought of everything.
"To me the concept of an afterlife is one of the biggest insults to human endeavor," -- we know theres an afterlife, Our Lord Himself validated this belief.
"because our culture has no concept of training people (anymore)etc" -- i agree that its important for a man to know a skill. The problem is that people have everything handed to them now.
Knowledge can be like food, some of it can be junk.
"To me the concept of an afterlife is one of the biggest insults to human endeavor," -- we know theres an afterlife, Our Lord Himself validated this belief.
"because our culture has no concept of training people (anymore)etc" -- i agree that its important for a man to know a skill. The problem is that people have everything handed to them now.
Knowledge can be like food, some of it can be junk.
-good luck trying to get the libtard to admit it, They think they were the ones who thought of everything.-
This I think is a gross over generalization and furthermore continues the bickering that will eventually get us all killed/degenerated/conquered. If there is to be any progress levity should be thrown out of the window. This is not a frivolous matter no matter how little of an immediate threat it may or may not be perceived. This false dichotomy that both conservatives and liberals have is undermining our progress as a species and since it is largely politically based has little relevancy in the greater scheme of things. The dead and the degenerate have little use for such things.
-we know theres an afterlife, Our Lord Himself validated this belief.-
Really? Because the "Chosen" don't believe in an after life. Also I don't take on faith what a man has written based on divine inspiration. For one thing the Bible is already tainted by the council of Nicaea, money was mostly the deciding factor here as church officials were bribed by the Emperor to immediately stop bickering over canon and compile the Bible. This can be seen as a consolidation of his power and control over the church itself and is therefor highly suspect. I would like to add that a large part of the Bible consists of letters to certain people giving said Prophet's opinions, the nature of this "divinity" of inspiration is already tainted further (by the Bible's own "logic"), in that man is a flawed and fallible creature prone constantly to error. That the Bible is not in error is without question. It's like playing a game of telephone and expecting to get the original answer. Now combine that with over one thousand five hundred years and several dozen languages. Good luck is all I have to tell you.
If I were a Christian I would be more concerned with finding out the truth, in dissemination and increasing my own spiritual awareness further, if such a thing were possible. Consider for a moment why we have no prophets in this time, people are comfortable sitting on the compiled opinions of hundreds of years of doctrine to the point that it is canon whether it is true or not! No I will not take anyone's word on faith, the Christian church is going to have to go through major upheaval if it is to survive in the future and take a good hard look at what it considers "truth". I think maybe they should start seeking God in places other than where people tell them he can be found and maybe form an opinion that a dead man didn't pen to a village in the desert in 200 B.C.
-i agree that its important for a man to know a skill. The problem is that people have everything handed to them now.
Knowledge can be like food, some of it can be junk.-
Indeed much like my previous statement about the Bible, The Qu'ran or the Torah. Folk of an organized religious ilk no longer seek in the Abrahamic faith, it's merely a constant rehashing of the dusty words of a dead man who never intended them to be compiled in this fashion and is in my opinion Spiritually a waste of time. Rest on your laurels all you like but that is not for me.
Better to struggle and die than lay one's head down for the whistle a singing blade. Better to die in the service of Man than in the service of a God that has honestly been forgotten about, lost in the catacombs of a religion of death no matter how many people invoke his son's name. I fear not death and care not what is after, I concern myself with this life now and with MY people. They are all my brother's and sister's whether they like it or not, cut from the same cloth, the same flesh, the same blood coursing through all our veins. So go, bicker and rant and divide and march ye well down into the depths of a depravity you have no idea is coming. Generations down the line when our descendants have devolved into subhuman filth maybe we will finally find the mercy of an uncaring universe and this planet will be cleansed in fire.
Go with your God, I pray for you better progress on your journey if your convictions are strong enough, all men by their measure . . . Brother.
This I think is a gross over generalization and furthermore continues the bickering that will eventually get us all killed/degenerated/conquered. If there is to be any progress levity should be thrown out of the window. This is not a frivolous matter no matter how little of an immediate threat it may or may not be perceived. This false dichotomy that both conservatives and liberals have is undermining our progress as a species and since it is largely politically based has little relevancy in the greater scheme of things. The dead and the degenerate have little use for such things.
-we know theres an afterlife, Our Lord Himself validated this belief.-
Really? Because the "Chosen" don't believe in an after life. Also I don't take on faith what a man has written based on divine inspiration. For one thing the Bible is already tainted by the council of Nicaea, money was mostly the deciding factor here as church officials were bribed by the Emperor to immediately stop bickering over canon and compile the Bible. This can be seen as a consolidation of his power and control over the church itself and is therefor highly suspect. I would like to add that a large part of the Bible consists of letters to certain people giving said Prophet's opinions, the nature of this "divinity" of inspiration is already tainted further (by the Bible's own "logic"), in that man is a flawed and fallible creature prone constantly to error. That the Bible is not in error is without question. It's like playing a game of telephone and expecting to get the original answer. Now combine that with over one thousand five hundred years and several dozen languages. Good luck is all I have to tell you.
If I were a Christian I would be more concerned with finding out the truth, in dissemination and increasing my own spiritual awareness further, if such a thing were possible. Consider for a moment why we have no prophets in this time, people are comfortable sitting on the compiled opinions of hundreds of years of doctrine to the point that it is canon whether it is true or not! No I will not take anyone's word on faith, the Christian church is going to have to go through major upheaval if it is to survive in the future and take a good hard look at what it considers "truth". I think maybe they should start seeking God in places other than where people tell them he can be found and maybe form an opinion that a dead man didn't pen to a village in the desert in 200 B.C.
-i agree that its important for a man to know a skill. The problem is that people have everything handed to them now.
Knowledge can be like food, some of it can be junk.-
Indeed much like my previous statement about the Bible, The Qu'ran or the Torah. Folk of an organized religious ilk no longer seek in the Abrahamic faith, it's merely a constant rehashing of the dusty words of a dead man who never intended them to be compiled in this fashion and is in my opinion Spiritually a waste of time. Rest on your laurels all you like but that is not for me.
Better to struggle and die than lay one's head down for the whistle a singing blade. Better to die in the service of Man than in the service of a God that has honestly been forgotten about, lost in the catacombs of a religion of death no matter how many people invoke his son's name. I fear not death and care not what is after, I concern myself with this life now and with MY people. They are all my brother's and sister's whether they like it or not, cut from the same cloth, the same flesh, the same blood coursing through all our veins. So go, bicker and rant and divide and march ye well down into the depths of a depravity you have no idea is coming. Generations down the line when our descendants have devolved into subhuman filth maybe we will finally find the mercy of an uncaring universe and this planet will be cleansed in fire.
Go with your God, I pray for you better progress on your journey if your convictions are strong enough, all men by their measure . . . Brother.
You have an optimistic magical opinion of religion.
I think it's just a series of scams run by frauds and mentally ill.
"Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity. I aim to fix that and have our humanity outstrip our technology."
I think it's just a series of scams run by frauds and mentally ill.
"Many people believe our technology is outpacing our humanity. I aim to fix that and have our humanity outstrip our technology."