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February 9, 2013
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To abort is to stop a human life?

:iconenewport:
enewport Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
What is your opinion on abortion? Does it end a human life?
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:iconrustyironmonger:
rustyironmonger Featured By Owner Mar 10, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I am pro-choice, and it is necessary when the fetus (it's not a baby until birth) is deformed, will have significant medical issues or will be a drain on society. And there are too many people on Earth as it is.
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:iconladydata:
LadyData Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Of course it's ending a human life because life starts at conception which is the very moment it is created. By aborting a fetus you are taking away it's life from developing to it's potential to have relationships and accomplish goals.
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:iconmihaihen:
Mihaihen Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2013
Yes i would say it is worst then murder. Because the victim is helpless and the crime is committed by retards who cant even figure out how to use birth control. Is it really worth not wearing a condom as much as ripping a little unborn kid to pieces with a forceps?!?
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2013
You speak as if the fetus is even aware of it's own existence. Your anthropomorphizing something that isn't anthropomorphic yet.
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:iconvisionoftheworld:
VISIONOFTHEWORLD Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2013
The victims of most murders are helpless.
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:iconmclandis:
Mclandis Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Because the victim is helpless and the crime is committed by retards who cant even figure out how to use birth control.

Because abortion totally can't be about protecting the mother's life/health or because the baby will be born with a horrible defect which kills it not too long after birth. Oi!
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:iconwhovian-shitsuji:
Whovian-Shitsuji Featured By Owner Mar 2, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
And it's not as if the woman might have been raped. Heaven forbid.
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:iconmclandis:
Mclandis Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
But the female body has ways of shutting the whole thing down!
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:iconwhovian-shitsuji:
Whovian-Shitsuji Featured By Owner Mar 6, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Thank you Mr. Republican asshole.
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:iconsiantjudas:
siantjudas Featured By Owner Feb 21, 2013   Digital Artist
I probably killed about a hundred living organisms today just existing. Is a one human life worth more than those?
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:iconi-stamp:
i-stamp Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013
Yes, it is ending a human life. But that doesn't change that it's illegal and unethical to make someone into a life support system against their continued expressed consent. It would be like forcing someone to give a kidney for someone who would die without it, whether they want to or not, because they have an organ donor card.
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:iconder-freishutz:
der-freishutz Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
oh boy here we go again lad

when you kill something you are stopping it from growing and progressing
this implies that if something is growing and progressing it is living
a fetus at any stage is growing and progressing
if you stop it from doing this, you are killing it

so no brah abortion is wrong.
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:icontwipplestoast:
twipplestoast Featured By Owner Feb 15, 2013   Writer
I simply don't understand why this has become such a political matter at all. Life is life from the very beginning, and to deny that is folly. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm the sort of person who believes that everything happens for a reason. If we as beings couldn't handle that which God gave us then why would we have been given such tasks? Not to say that rape isn't terrible, but if those women could see beyond themselves and beyond that terrible moment, how many lives could have been saved, had they not been selfish. Those children aborted for the fact that they're the product of rape I believe is selfishness, for the mother didn't want that child or responsibility. And if they can't handle that, or are too young to raise a child, then put it up for adoption.

In my mind, those children, regardless of how they were conceived, were created for a reason, and those women ignored that for either fear, hatred of the father and self-pity. I understand that that mental trauma is beyond all imagining for someone like myself who hasn't experimented it, but that child was not responsible for what happened - and there are many people looking to adopt. When one has that mindset that life is life, then it is murder, in or out of the body, for that child's body doesn't belong to the mother, rather her body nurtures it so that it can grow to one day survive on its own.

It does sadden me to say that there is a place for abortions, though. Such as health of the mother, if the child died in the womb (as, sadly, my older brother did) and incest.

It's silly though to say that it's not a human life until it forms some sort of consciousness. That's like saying that we were all frogs growing inside our mothers till politics decided that we were large enough to call baby humans. Yet, we don't say the same about animals. The calf growing inside the cow we still call a calf, the puppies growing inside the dog we still call puppies, same with cats, horses, pigs, etc., we don't call them "fetuses".

Should I one day get married and have a child, and the doctor says, "Your fetus is doing well," I'd slap him right up the wazoo (though I will have a homebirth with a midwife for my great mistrust of doctors, since birth is a natural event that the woman body was made for, not a medical emergency till such problems arouse). I mean, doesn't that sound a bit stupid? You already know what it is, so let's call it such: A HUMAN BABY.
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:iconmclandis:
Mclandis Featured By Owner Mar 1, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
And if they can't handle that, or are too young to raise a child, then put it up for adoption

And add more of a burden to an already strained system that too often results in children leading terrible, messed up lives? No thank you.

The calf growing inside the cow we still call a calf, the puppies growing inside the dog we still call puppies, same with cats, horses, pigs, etc., we don't call them "fetuses".

Actually, yes we do. Fetus is the proper medical term for any unborn placental mammal.
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:iconcake-fiend:
cake-fiend Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
there are many people looking to adopt

And already many children to be adopted.

But the world still needs millions more babies, just keep popping them out everyone! Don't stop till we've wiped ourselves out from ecological collapse! MURRICA!
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:icontwipplestoast:
twipplestoast Featured By Owner Feb 15, 2013   Writer
As to answer the question directly, "Does abortion end human life?" Yes. If that child were aloud to grow and be born, what would he/she have become? Most certainly not a lion or cow. Human life is human life, from beginning to end.
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
It's not until week 6 that a fetus has even a semblance of mental activity, before that it's quite literally nothing more than a mass of cells for the first few weeks, and then nothing more than a brain-dead human until the 6th week.

By your logic, a brain dead human should be kept on life support until its body gives out, and that single-celled organisms have a right to live.
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:icontwipplestoast:
twipplestoast Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013   Writer
With all due respect, a brain dead human is a dead being, and death cannot grow. The Zygote cell (a single celled ogranism) is only a single cell in its first week after fertalization, before quickly deviding into multipule cells and moving itself into the womb. However, as I've said, the undisputable fact that, "does abortion end human life?" Yes. If the mother would let that "ball of mush" grow what would it become? Nonetheless a human, and yes, we all ought to have the right to life.
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
Abortion ends the potential for a human life. However until it has mental function, it cannot be considered a human just like a brain-dead individual is not considered human, because there is no self, no consciousness.

Unless of course you believe the self is more than mental function, but that's an entirely different debate that has no conclusion.
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:icontwipplestoast:
twipplestoast Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013   Writer
So you're implying that what grows inside a human is, in fact, not human at all, that the mother grows inside her a cow perhaps? A monkey, if that is more to ones liking. A tadpool maybe? So, if I may ask, if it's not a human growing inside another human, what is it?
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
No, I'm implying that what grows inside a human is a human, but not a person, until the point where there is mental activity sufficient to be called awareness.
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:icontwipplestoast:
twipplestoast Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013   Writer
So then you're implying that it's okay to kill a growing human being for it not yet having a sense of awareness? So it's then legal for a person to murder someone who's walking down the street, who has no awareness of the danger, as long as he/she is killed instantly so that this awareness has no chances of taking place.

So in order to legitimize one set of actions, being abortions, we have to lower our very exsistance, therefor, making any sort of killing reasonable so that we can then justify our actions to kill off future people.
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(2 Replies)
:icondonworld:
donworld Featured By Owner Feb 15, 2013
I dont consider it a murder if it's done before the brain is formed (in my opinion a heartbeat doesn't make one a person since the "character" "lives" inside the brain mostly the front lobes-I dont know if the heart or brain is formed first)
however even if after the brain is formed i still am not 100% against it if done for health issues or to save the life of a mother or even if the child would be misfigured/
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:iconehnker:
Ehnker Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2013  Student General Artist
A homunculus, maybe...
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:iconsignificuntypie:
Significuntypie Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2013
I'm pro-choice, and yes, it does end a human life.
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:iconchateaubriand:
chateaubriand Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
That fertilized egg at day 1 is as much a homo sapiens sapiens as that baby at day 270 and that adult at day 10,950.
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
Incorrect.

It's not until week 6 that a fetus has even a semblance of mental activity, before that it's quite literally nothing more than a mass of cells for the first few weeks, and then nothing more than a brain-dead human until the 6th week.
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:iconchateaubriand:
chateaubriand Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Is mental activity the only basis for 'being human'?

What of coma patients? Those in vegetative state?
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 20, 2013
Coma patients still have brainwaves of sufficient intensity to be called thought. Those in a vegetative state have no activity in the higher brain, only in the lower brain that controls your unconscious functions(breathing, heartbeat, muscular contractions of your esophagus, etc).

I would argue that mental activity is the only basis for being a person, yes.

If your brain isn't functioning, you have no consciousness. Your body isn't you, your thoughts and feelings make you you.
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:iconchateaubriand:
chateaubriand Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
To hold that mental activity is the only basis for life is to deny that plants are living things. I know it seems off topic, but please read on.

As early as kindergarten, we were taught the difference between living things and non living things. Basic: plants, animals and human beings are living things. On the other hand, tables, chairs and cars are non living things. We easily perceive a living tree from a dead trunk as easily as we can perceive a body from a corpse. Now the difference between these two is essentially what we call life. And I would like to argue that the most basic manifestation of life, its most tangible basis, is growth--Not mental activity (plants don’t have it), not movement (machines can replicate it), or whatever. The most basic differentiation between a living thing and a non living thing is living things grow.

Your argument is that it is only when ‘the thing inside the womb’ has mental activity that it becomes a human being. The implication of your statement is that unless the “thing” begins to have some brain activity, then it has no life. However, I do not see how that “thing” can [i]develop[/i] a brain and start brain activity without having first been propelled into that motion called “growing”. Furthermore, using “detectable” mental activity as the basis of life is vague. How much brain activity is needed for it to be detectable? And therefore is there such a thing as a range of “human-ness” depending on brain activity?
The term "Human being", as can be gleaned from the word 'being' concerns mainly with the existence of the man. It is a 'to be or not to be' - a question of whether it is or is not. And in this question, it is either a yes or a no. It does not come in a range of 10% human or 100% human. Therefore I hold that life starts at conception. Once the egg cell is fertilized, life begins. A human being comes into existence at that specific point. It does not wait for any sort of development (be it mental or physical).

The term "Person" on the other hand refers more to the intimacy of the human being - his individuality and uniqueness of which his thoughts, actions, feelings and characteristics have a huge impact on. Therefore I agree that your thoughts and feelings make you you. There is a “me” and a “you” because there is such a thing as personhood that separates me from you. We are two distinct persons. But we are both human beings. Capiche?
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2013
I see where you're coming from. :nod:
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:iconchateaubriand:
chateaubriand Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
:)
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:iconscottahemi:
ScottaHemi Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
yes.

some will TRY to claim that a fetus is just a part of the mothers body. WOmens rights, and freedom to choose, etc etc.

but the reality is is that a Fetus IS it's own being, a Human in the early stages of developement, having to survive on life support until it is
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:iconluminousbrink:
luminousBrink Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
a potential life
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Liberty is a juggernaut.
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:iconavianex:
AvianEx Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I don't think abortion ends a human life. The consciousness hasn't developed until about 6-7 months, by which time the abortion window has ended.
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:iconblack-allison:
Black-Allison Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013
Depends. Do you consider miscarriage manslaughter?
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:iconyaotl:
yaotl Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2013
See, my problem with that comparison is that a miscarriage is better compared to a child's death by accident or disease: the mother did not wanted it to happen, but shit happens.
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:iconkaikaku:
kaikaku Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
If a squirrel eats an acorn, is it appropriate to say it killed an oak tree?
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:iconlyteside:
lyteside Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013
I like this analogy. When does the acorn become a tree? Is it ever both an acorn and a tree?
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:iconkaikaku:
kaikaku Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Is it ever both an acorn and a tree?

I think the answer is yes.
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:iconlyteside:
lyteside Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013
Somehow I think so too. The moral implications of that are going to make my head explode.
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:iconkaikaku:
kaikaku Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I mean, the initial question that the OP asks... does it stop a human life? It undoubtably does.
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
How does it end a human life? Wouldn't it be ending a potential human life?
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:iconkaikaku:
kaikaku Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
The first question is in the title. Asking if it "stops a human life" actually is a subtly different question than "does it end a human life."
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:iconeternaljedi:
EternalJedi Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
It'd be the same thing, semantically speaking.

It wouldn't be stopping a human life, but the potential for one.

There isn't sufficient mental activity to call a fetus really human until the point that the cutoff for abortion hits.
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(1 Reply)
:iconkaikaku:
kaikaku Featured By Owner Feb 14, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'd like to hear an elaboration of your thoughts. This is a complex issue.
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:iconlyteside:
lyteside Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2013
Sure. In that new light, it seems that the issue of abortion is more of a dilemma of the condition of our hearts, rather than the result to the fetus/infant.

Questions to start ourselves asking might be,

"If I am unclear at what stage the fetus becomes "baby", do I respect human life in the process of abortion?"
"Are there conditions where it is okay to end/stop/kill life if the subject human?"

Motive may have more to do with this issue than I would like to admit.
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:iconneonila:
Neonila Featured By Owner Feb 11, 2013
Yeah, I think it does. Not sure what human life is but no matter which way I think of it its the same as killing a person.

And I really love that people say abortion is a woman's choice, rape cases aside, if it is anyone's choice it should be the parents choice.
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:iconsignificuntypie:
Significuntypie Featured By Owner Feb 13, 2013
Why should it be "the parents" choice?

A man ejaculates once. A woman gives up her nutrients for 9 months, her perfect body for the rest of her life, and potentially her whole life. Nobody should be able to force a woman to carry out a pregnancy, even if he is the one who dumped his sperm in her.
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