Shop Mobile More Submit  Join Login

Details

Closed to new replies
January 25, 2013
Link

Statistics

Replies: 501

Qur'an, Bible, Torah -> Fiction

:iconzazill:
Zazill Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think it's time we accepted these books for what they are, fiction for religious people. The stories are meant to be interpreted spiritually and not literally, all of them. That way arguments over it's validity become naught.

Science, Biology, Zoology, Archaeology and History are just some fields that have many conflicts with how these books depict event's.

What do you think ?
Reply

You can no longer comment on this thread as it was closed due to no activity for a month.

Devious Comments

:icontekhiun:
tekhiun Featured By Owner May 3, 2013
1) Not everything in those books are fiction.
2) For the most part we do not know how they are intended to be interpreted.
3) Spiritually is a nonsense word. If you disagree please define what you mean by it.
4) (depends on 3 ) Why does it make arguing about whether those texts are valid or not futile ? Even if they are texts that are open to interpretation we can argue over the validity of those interpretations.

However we do know that we don't have reliable sources to indicate who wrote or when most of the texts in those books were written, that these texts also have contradicting accounts of "historical events". Those books were also written in a time where people were even more gullible and uneducated than today.

In my opinion those books don't teach anything new ( to the time they were written ) or unique, as they are open to interpretation what actually happens is that people filter in what happens to coincide with what they already believe or project their own morals on those texts.

Example "Love thy neighbor". The word neighbor can be interpreted as fellow christian, so people from other beliefs are to be loved . Also it's more common interpretation is not unique to christianity nor the notion was originated by it.
Reply
:iconsherberttcat:
SherbertTCat Featured By Owner May 1, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Because if some random twat on the interweb says so, it must be true.
Reply
:iconblackeyei:
BlackeyeI Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2013
Hurry the time is coming!
*Many will hide in shame and fear.
Reply
:iconthe-drunken-celt:
The-Drunken-Celt Featured By Owner Apr 20, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I take them as tall tales. A decent amount of events that take place in the "holy texts" I think probably happened, but they obviously play them up to a biblical (lulz) level.
Reply
:iconslashingtaste:
SlashingTaste Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2013
your mom thinks your in college.
Reply
:iconscarlet-light:
scarlet-light Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Far from complete fiction, it seems to me that these books are written in metaphor and poetry such that the common man has an easy way of understanding. That doesn't mean they are fiction, it just means you can't take them literally.

For example the bible talks about the earth being held by pillars. Obviously this isn't literally true. But the earth is supported by a system of strong forces and what not which go far above the understanding of the common man. The bible means to say, 'there is something which keeps the earth from drifting into a black whole, into oblivion, or into mars'. It's just done in a way understandable to those who aren't physicists.
Reply
:iconblackeyei:
BlackeyeI Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2013
DID YOU KNOW:God (alpha, Omega, Emanuel)(Bible) Is the only God in the WHOLE universe many will argue againsy my message but all the other gods are demons. So they are worshiping DEMONS.
Reply
:iconcrimsonmagpie:
CrimsonMagpie Featured By Owner Apr 20, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
Can you substantiate that claim with evidence?
Reply
:iconmathildasdoubel:
MathildasDoubel Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013
I think fiction is the wrong word.
These stories, say the truth in someway. You have to read between the lines though, not literally.
These stories tell you how people try to explain several social and natural phenomena, how they see and feel their surrounding and how they feel about their God. It is how these individual humans, which wrote these texts, experienced and interpretend things....they didn't lie or just invent something to entertain others, it is a truth amoung many others a reality how it was seen by these individual people.
this is what makes these book so interesting to me. They can tell us how people though so many years ago. :)

also...everything on this earth, can be called some kind of fiction and not real. Since even science is bound to the human senses and interpretations. Things that are not able to be sensed by humans, are not experiencable for us.
Even scientific instruments and measuring instruments are just an extension of our senses and numbers and units of measurement are just a try to interprete and cathegorise what we sense.
in the end we don't know was it really real and what is just a fata Morgana of our senses.
Truth and Reality are in the end just more likely theories, social concepts and results of indivual sensual experiences.
Reply
:iconnaruto-ii:
Naruto-II Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with you, though calling them fiction is a bit too harsh in my opinion. They are very important works with great meaning. But they were written a long, long time ago by people from a different era. Taking works that old literally can be dangerous and will only lead to grief, as has been shown by countless wars and abuses with a 'holy word' to justify it. These works are important, yes, but they should be read as a historical work. Written by people from that time, with their morals and beliefs. The environment and era will always influence the writer.
Reply
:iconusagitoxic:
UsagiToxic Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
One wise person said: if the Bible is the proof of existence of God, then the Spider-Man comics are the proof of existence of Spider-Man.
Reply
:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I think that logic is a little narrow-minded, though I agree it is a valid point
Reply
:iconwerewolfferret96:
Werewolfferret96 Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013
Did you actually have opened the Qu'ran and read it hmmmm..?
Reply
:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Hmm.
I believe that religion teaches us SOME good moral values (and some that are absolute shit) as a basis for science
Reply
:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
And on reviewing that, my answer makes no sense. Okay, I think it's time I call it a night
Reply
:iconwerewolfferret96:
Werewolfferret96 Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013
No it makes perfect sense!
Reply
:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Now that I'm awake I see it does make some sense. Still...I need to stop posting while drunk, tired or procrastinating
Reply
:iconwerewolfferret96:
Werewolfferret96 Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013
Hmm yeah,there are chances that you might typed in something silly when you're in those circumstances..
Reply
:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Apr 8, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
It happens a lot =P
Reply
:iconholt5:
Holt5 Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
The Bible couldn't be adequately classed as purely historical or purely non-historical. It contains records just as much as it contains philosophies, analogies, and prophecies. Only an idiot would deny the Bible has *any* historical accuracy - which is apparently what the original post is stating. Conversely, only an idiot would believe it is entirely historical.

There was a first human, Jesus was a real person, John the Baptist was real, Ananias was real, the Hittites were real, the Babylonian captivity was real. None of those are solely recorded by the Bible. Look up Flavius Josephus for one - he's probably the most popularly sited person in reference to his acknowledgement of the existence of Jesus.
Reply
:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Apr 3, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
I need a beer.
Reply
:iconoperia:
Operia Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Count me in for that
Reply
:iconashiharalover:
AshiharaLover Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with you! It's just some fiction... stupid fiction people keep fighting about, just see how many people there have been killed because of religion
Reply
:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I say nonfiction
Reply
:iconhideshisface:
HidesHisFace Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2013
They are ficton in the very same way as Greek, Roman and Egyptian mythologies are.
They may contain some historical truths, like Bible containing some info about history of Israel or how Quran depicts life of Muhammad.
All these facts, are however, barely relevant as they are obscured with stories of miracles and such, making them more or less works of fiction, similar to Arthurian Legends or stories about Robin Hood - both placed in history, yet obscured with fantastic events.
The quality of moral values and contradictions are different story, given usually very poor quality of translations of such texts, made from multiple sources. In the very same way Greek Mythology is inconsistent, given that all city-states might have their own versions and myth themself were spread by word first and written down later.
Incredible similarities of myths in all Abrahamic religions to those of Sumerian and Babilonian origin is also worth taking into account. Given how original authors of Abrahamic branch were nomads, they driven alot from cultures they met, adapting their religious views, taking them as their own.
Reply
:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Is honesty even desirable in religion?
Reply
:iconwerewolfferret96:
Werewolfferret96 Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013
Yes
Reply
:iconcapturedjoe:
CapturedJoe Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2013
Yeah.
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2013  Student Digital Artist
The Qur'an is 100% truth, complete opposite of fiction.

Bring it on.
Reply
:iconmarahuta:
Marahuta Featured By Owner Apr 10, 2013
How many deitied do the Christians have according to the Quran ?!
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Unitarian Christians take 1 deity.

Trinitarian Christians take 3.

No prophet preached Trinity before Jesus (as). 75% of the Bible (the Old Testament) clearly doesn't support Trinity as well. Islam remains to be the strongest religion with the concept of One God, surpassing Christianity.
Reply
:iconmarahuta:
Marahuta Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013
You just disproved your religion ;)
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Oh really, how?

If I am right, it is from God, if I am wrong, it is from myself.

Don't judge my religion based off my understandings about what my religion says about YOUR religion, since your religion is all over the place, and no concept remains to be consistent from Christian to Christian.

Islam is a more solid religion than Christianity, we pray like Jesus (as), we follow Jesus (as), we love Jesus (as), we keep beards like Jesus (as), and our women are like the mother Mary (as) of Jesus (as).

The concepts of God in Islam are consistent, however, there are controversies within the religion of Christianity itself regarding GOD.
Reply
:iconmarahuta:
Marahuta Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013
Don't judge my religion based off my understandings about what my religion says about YOUR religion, since your religion is all over the place, and no concept remains to be consistent from Christian to Christian.

Actually your religion is very straightforward about my religion and I think you should be ashamed not to know what it teaches and giving the answer you gave earlier.

Talking about my religion being all over the place. It is of my knowledge that Ahmadis are concidered heretics and are often persecuted as infidels, you are non-muslims by law in pakistan and under Saudi law you are not allowed in Mecca, you cannot perform Hajj and I think you can't enter Madinah either. but this has nothing to do with the topic.

Islam is a more solid religion than Christianity, we pray like Jesus (as), we follow Jesus (as), we love Jesus (as), we keep beards like Jesus (as), and our women are like the mother Mary (as) of Jesus (as).
This is not an argument.

Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2013  Student Digital Artist
1) You believe in 3 Gods without realizing it.

Trinitarians often like to claim that they have a monotheistic belief, and that the Trinity is not the worship of 3 Gods rather it is the worship of One God. Basically they say the Trinity doctrine is as follow:

1- God is made up of 3 persons

2- The three persons are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

3- All three persons are distinct from each other, The Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Father etc.

4- Each person in the Trinity has a role of their own

5- Jesus is the Son in the Trinity

So basically that is the dogma of the Trinity.

Now let us show exactly why Christians do in fact worship three God's. As I said, the Trinity is made up of THREE people, these three people are all different than one another, it is basically exactly like having 3 people in an office, Tom Dick and Harry.

Now Christians say that Jesus is God, the Father is God, and so is the Holy Spirit. So therefore if you have three people, and each one of them is God then what are you left with? You are left with THREE Gods! This is logic!

If Tom Dick and Harry are each managers, how many managers do you have? You have three! Remember Trinity has THREE different persons, and each person is God, therefore you have three Gods and not one, there is no way around this mess.

Let us even make it simpler for people:

Muslim: Is Jesus God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is Jesus the Father?

Christian: No

Muslim: Is the Father God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is The Father Jesus?

Christian: No

Muslim: So these are 2 different persons?

Christian: Yes, 2 distinct different persons

Muslim: And both are God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is the Holy Spirit God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is the Holy Spirit the Father or Jesus?

Christian: No, the Holy Spirit is not

Muslim: So Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: And these are three different persons?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: So you have three persons, each one is God, how many is that?

Christian: Three, opppssss no no I meant One


It cannot get any simpler than that, Trinitarians worship THREE Gods and they cant deny it.

Now off course Trinitarians have come up with dozens and dozens of laughable analogies to make sense of the Trinity, however so my favorite analogy Christians bring up to make sense of the Trinity is the Family analogy.

The family analogy basically says this:

A Family is made up of more than one member, a Father, Mother, and Son. Yet the family is one family and not three families, the same with Trinity.

This is my favorite analogy, and it is one of the most deceptive analogies. The family statement is true, a family is made up of 2 or more persons, a typical basic family is a Husband, Wife, and son.

But here is the problem, Christians say that each person in the Trinity is God, remember Christians say Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is also God. So therefore using the Christian Trinity doctrine, that would basically mean that the husband is a family, the wife is a family, and the son is also a family!!!!!!! In a family we say that the husband wife and son MAKE UP A FAMILLY, we do not say that each specific member of the family is the family!

Just test this out for yourself, go ask any Christian, is Jesus God, they will immediately say YES!!!!!!!!!! AMENNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! The Christian will not reply back by saying no Jesus is not God, but Jesus is part of God, you will NEVER hear this reply by a Christian, and I myself have never heard this from a Christian. So therefore the analogy FAILS since the analogy is not even close to Trinity, when you ask a husband are you a family sir? He will say I HAVE a family and yes I am in a family, but he will not say yes I am a family. So Christian Trinitarians have been very deceptive in their analogies and it seems they themselves don’t understand what Trinity even is!

Christians do not say No Jesus is not God, or no the Father is not God, Christians do not say that Jesus and the Father are part of God and make up God, they say that Jesus IS God, they say that the Father IS God. So the analogy crumbles. :)

And this analogy even makes more problems! You see folks, someone doesn’t come up to you alone and say are you a family? For instance if I was standing outside a shop all alone, a person would not ask me hey Sami are you a family? They would ask hey Sami are you in a family or do you have a family. So basically if we want to compare the Trinity to this family analogy, then this means that we should not ask Christians is Jesus God, we should ask Christians does Jesus have a God, does the Father have a God! Because the analogy is basically turning God into a family, so therefore this means God is made up of people, and is not one alone person, just like a family, so this means we should be asking the Christians does Jesus have a God rather than asking is Jesus God.

So as you can see, these analogies are so bad and deceptive they cause further problems for a Trinitarian. Trinitarians should simply accept the fact that they worship three God's, once doing so they will be able to throw this Trinity lie out the window and become a real monotheistic faith.

[link]

2) That Ahmadi subject is entirely off-topic and a whole 'nother conversation.
Reply
:iconmarahuta:
Marahuta Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2013
Good to see you misrepresenting the Trinity. It is one deity known as God the Trinity. First verse from the Christian Creed of Belief (equivelant to the Shahdah).

Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν<--->We believe in one God
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Apr 15, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
Trinity is 1 God of 3 persons..not three Gods...

But if you like to prove that the Bible teaches trinity as 3 Gods go ahead.
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013  Student Digital Artist
You can call it one God, but your mind however does not accept that.

When I say the Father, what do you think of?

Some giant bearded man sitting on a throne in heaven right?

When I say Jesus (as), what do you think of?

That handsome bearded man with the white robes, right?

When I say the Holy Spirit, what do you think of?

An angelic looking ghost or something?

Well your mind has three different images or concepts of God's image or self being...

Islam is more monotheistic than Christianity.

No prophet before Jesus (as) preached Trinity, it is a made up concept invented by Saint Paul, 75% of the Bible is the Old Testament, and it talks about One God, not three...

It is true if you take specific verses from the Bible...or, ANY scripture, and play around with it, you can make it say something that really wasn't meant to be said.

This is what so called Christian scholars have been trying to do in the past, arranging and adding/removing verses in the NT trying to prove the Trinity.

Funny thing is though, even the Bible itself isn't enough to prove the Trinity, scholars have to make their OWN books to help and support it, and when that happens, you got different scholars with different interpretations, clear contradictions.

There are also many Christians that reject Trinity and only accept the Oneness of God and believe that Jesus (as) was a prophet of messenger of God, whom he truly was.

Now are they wrong???
Reply
:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Apr 16, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
1) I don't see your point, it doesn't matter what image I make of them the Bible still teaches the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Three persons, One God: Three persons.

2)"Islam is more monothesitc than Christianty" well thats your opinion based probably on the fact of Trinity which probably confuses you( But I am just guessing).

3)Bible teaches One God in Old testament just as much as New testament...
[link]

This site, though I do not agree with everything it states, explains the Trinity clearly and breaks it down into "trinities" of nature.
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2013  Student Digital Artist
1) So it is safe to say, you worship three PERSONS? That can still be defined as polytheism, (def-worship or belief in multiple deities).

We can replace deities with 'persons'.

Worship or belief in three persons.

Three = Poly.

Polytheism.

The Bible clearly says to worship ONE GOD.

Also, if the Trinity is a system of equality, all persons are equal, to make One God, then why does Prophet Jesus (as) say, “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)???

Contradiction.

Father = Son = Holy Spirit

Or is it Father > Son = Holy Spirit

An imbalanced trinity?

What a concept that contradicts itself by its own Holy Book!

2) This is a no-brainer.

If you read the Qur'an, there are hundreds of verses that you just keep repeating, talking about the Oneness of God, and it also denies the divinity of Jesus (as), or ANY other human being.

The Qur'an reconfirms the true concept of the One God that the Christians back then fell astray to, the man-made concept of Trinity.

God had helped Muhammad (saw) succeed in his mission, and now Islam is the fastest growing religion on Earth, which means more people every day are rejecting their false Gods, rejecting polytheism and idolatry, rejecting the divinity of any prophet of God, rejecting disbelief, and turning SOLELY to the ONE ETERNAL HIDDEN CREATOR.

Jesus (as) called this God, Ilah, in Aramaic, the language he spoke.

Muhammad (saw) called this God, Allah, in Arabic, the language he spoke.

BOTH of these prophets of God worshiped the same Lord, both preached the same message.

Jesus (as) used the word 'Father' and 'Son' as metaphors. The Father is simply God, and 'Son' means servant of God, and Jesus (as) used it not only for himself, but ANYONE who claims to be a servant of God.

It is written in the Bible, Jesus (as) says. "Blessed be the peacemakers, for they are the sons of God."

If Jesus (as) were to be alive today, he would reject the Christian doctrines today, as they completely contradict his message and the truth.

Jesus (as) prayed like Muslims, he prostrated on the ground, confirmed by the Bible. He kept a beard like noble Muslim men. He fasted for 40 days and 40 nights, just like the Muslims fast on Ramadan. His mother, Mary (as) observed the headscarf, just search it on Google, Muslim women also follow this practice and wear the headscarf, known as the Hijab in Arabic.

If people saw Jesus (as) and his family walking on the streets today, and seeing the acts and practices of them, people will say that they are Muslims.

3) You see, you are simply trying to defend a man-made concept from OUTSIDE sources rather than the Bible.

If the Bible was the pure word of God, then that means that the Bible, the pure word of God, should be ENOUGH, to explain the concept of trinity, but apparently, no, that isn't the case. You will never be able to support the trinity with the Bible alone. You have to start making up analogies from outside natural creations and systems to add some spice to your concept.

The Qur'an however, is ENOUGH to explain the concept of the Oneness of God, AND enough to reject all other types of beliefs and concepts and misunderstandings about God, including the trinity.

I want you to refute these 10 reasons why Jesus (as) is not God.

[link]
Reply
:iconink-robertson:
Ink-Robertson Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
XD
Did you even look at the link?
-Three Persons, One God=Monotheism
-Jesus was acknowledging the fact he was a man, he has two natures and is still equally divine.

I am not wasting my time with the other part of this large text please summarize, and no not wasting my time with your link.
Reply
(1 Reply)
:iconwerewolfferret96:
Werewolfferret96 Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013
I agree,I think the fella who type this thread does not actually have opened the Qur'an and read it.
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Yeah, it is like saying McDonald's sucks and you're eating a Big Mac while typing that...
Reply
:iconwerewolfferret96:
Werewolfferret96 Featured By Owner Apr 7, 2013
Heh, like the saying goes,
Do not bite the hands that fed you.
Reply
:iconcrimsonmagpie:
CrimsonMagpie Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
It's 100% truth for you because you want it to be, nothing more. :shrug:
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 2, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Not really.

Here are a few verses from the Holy Qur'an.

(8:23)
"Without doubt, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who do not use their ‘Aql’ (reason)"

(21:11)
"O Mankind! Now We have revealed unto you a Book that is all about you and it will give you eminence. Will you not, then, use your sense 'Akl'"

God clearly commands us humans to use our brains, our sense, our rational reasoning to determine what is truth, and what isn't.

Blind faith is against the principles of Islam, we Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the truth because the facts have been presented to us very clearly, and we have cleaned our own hearts so that we can truly see the light that always existed.

Your own heart is like a mirror. If the mirror is dirty, then whatever is reflecting within the mirror would be a distorted blurry image. Only when you clean the mirror, will you truly see the real face of the image.

Purify your heart and study the Qur'an, this book contains all truth.

Chapter 2, verse 3.

"This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous."
Reply
:iconcrimsonmagpie:
CrimsonMagpie Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2013  Professional Traditional Artist
Indeed, but that's just the Quran declaring itself to be the ultimate truth because it's the Quran. It's a circular logic that only works if you already believe it to be the truth, either because you want to, or have been conditioned to.
Reply
:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Apr 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
It is forbidden in Islam to believe without understanding beforehand. Qur'an rejects blind faith, yes, the Qur'an does admit that it is the truth, but the Qur'an challenges the reader to figure out why and how it is the truth.

A person who cannot answer those questions cannot affirm the Qur'an to be the truth. If you'd like to prove the Qur'an to be false, then provide evidence regarding it.
Reply
:iconequiliari:
Equiliari Featured By Owner Apr 10, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
"and I forbid the usage of compulsion, which means I do not force anyone to do anything."

...

"If you'd like to prove the Qur'an to be false, then provide evidence regarding it."

heh...
Reply
:iconequiliari:
Equiliari Featured By Owner Apr 10, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
"If you'd like to prove the Qur'an to be false, then provide evidence regarding it."

[link]
Reply
Add a Comment: