Free Us From Ignorance


DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
In this life we have many questions. Some are answered, some are left unanswered, but sometimes there are some answers that you may or may not believe you should know the answers to.

Like:

1. Is there a God?
2. Will there ever be unity in humanity?
3. Is there even a meaning to life?

This is not a religious debate. It is more of a philosophical one. I am a strong believer in the desire to know everything, however I also do not believe I will ever get to know everything.

The question for the discussion I would like to raise is:

Do you believe one can know too much and there is a limit to how much one should attempt to learn before it becomes more harm than good, or do you believe that knowledge is out there for us to take in the palm of our hands and there is no such thing as knowing too much?

I would like to believe that there is no limit, because there is so much wonder in this world and I would love to be able to live my life unrestrained when it comes to knowing. However, lately I'm beginning to doubt whether or not it is good to know so much. I don't know if I've become arrogant, (I would like to believe I'm not) but I get so tired of uninteligent, ignorant people. Of course I understand it is their choice to live how they please and what they learn, but I believe that the world is capable of so much and we the people of earth are holding ourselves back.

Imagine a world where ignorance is something everyone aspired to escape and community is something that everyone dreams to achieve. A world where people work for the end result, not the monetary gains they acquire. Money is a thing of the past and people work together, not just for themselves, but for the betterment of all humanity. Of course people should be compensated for their work, but I think that it shouldn't be money. I believe that the end result should be "THE DREAM" to see their hard work come to fruition and THAT is compensation enough.

Community isn't predominant anymore and is close to none existent and that is sad, but I see it EVERYWHERE. Just... not in the way it benefits man kind. What I mean by this is that everyone still works together (somewhat) but only for selfish self-serving purposes. It is this stupid tug of war where everyone is tugging at everything for what they feel they are entitled to, and you know what happens if two people of equal strength try to pull against each other: they go no where.

The internet is the biggest community the world has ever invented, but you know how most of it is known for... Porn and a Gate Way to laugh at dumb people on Youtube... sigh... I'm not saying I don't find some of these things enticing to laugh at silly people doing idiotic things videos but it's not so funny anymore (Rather, it is harder to laugh at it now a days). I truly believe man kind is capable of more but we can never see this happen while the few remain rich and wealthy leaders, and the majority become mindless ignorant followers who cannot wait for their next paycheck so that they can spend it on something quick and useless.

Now... if you are wondering how this relates to the question, it has everything to do with it.

I used to be ignorant about my ignorance (I know and accept that I can never not-be-ignorant) and I know I don't know everything. However at a price I might know so much that it came at the cost of my happiness. I used to be so happy and I used to look at people with such wide-eyed brightness, but now (although I always give people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't mindless ignorant followers), it's hard not to get pissed off when I meet one that is.

I fume behind a fake smile always trying to be understanding, always trying to forgive people for their ignorant behaviours. (Forgive might be too arrogant, but I can't find a better word) It isn't their fault that they don't know what you know, but more of mine for not being able to relate or accept them for who they are.

Please do not take this as arrogance, although I know it sounds that way, I just want to talk about this with people who are interested in what I'm saying, or are like minded, or people who used to think like this but have become enlightened above the state that I currently am. I know that I can very well be wrong for my way of thinking, which is why I lay it out so plainly. I want to change the way I think and become free from this burden I've allowed myself to bare. If anyone can discuss this with me, I would highly appreciate it.

So I return to the question: Could it be that I know too much, or I know way more than I can handle and that I am not ready to know what I know because of my immaturity or irresponsible responses to certain "ignorances"?

These are things I battle with internally everyday. Do you feel the same way? or Do you think you have an answer/response to it?

Thank You for reading up to here. If you plan to comment, please read the conditions below.

CONDITIONS:

1. I am here to discuss, NOT ARGUE.
My response to someone who just wants to argue is to ignore them. I will try to keep discussing with you on your points, but if it gets too angry, I will just say goodbye. I don't anger easy, but only because I don't allow it to escalate to that point. So I would appreciate if you do the same for me. You may find that it is I that is ignorant so please be patient with me and try to explain this without treating me like a fool and I will do the same for you.

2. Make sure that you read EVERYTHING that was written here.
Nothing is more aggrivating than someone who replies to only one thing from a long comment and what they said completely misunderstands what was intended. I would request that you give a benefit of a doubt that whatever someone says, no matter how you understood it, to see it from the way they said it. Just because you believe someone is wrong doesn't mean that what they said was ACTUALLY wrong. You might have misread it. So please re-read if necessary. People get hot headed too fast and end up making a fool of themselves so please try not to make this into a thread of fools.

3. Respect is given before received.
No matter how stupid or ignorant someone may appear, they may not ACTUALLY be ignorant. (I know this contradicts what I said above, but I do respect everything anyone says, even if I don't agree with it.) It may be that you misunderstood was said, so please maintain coolness and respect, and even if you never receive respect in the end, the one that stays calm in the end is the most respectable of all. Never stoop to someone elses level, because even if you aren't dumb/ignorant/disrespectful in real life, you still displayed that you are very capable of it, and it's better to never show this side of you to anyone but yourself.

4. Do not respond with single comments.
I took time to type this and carefully word it so that I don't sound stupid (so I hope:)). If you have something to say, please explain why you said what you said and why you believe what you said is valid. Please do your best to explain what you want to say as clearly as you can so to prevent misunderstandings. If a misunderstanding occurs, please ask first before attacking someone for something that you ended up misreading something, you might end up learning something rather than looking like a fool.

5. Benefit of a Doubt.
If something looks wrong or insulting to your principles, read and re-read again. If you still don't understand ask for clarification before responding. If you cannot come to an understanding or common ground, please do your best to come to a peaceful resolution. Fighting on the internet is dumb and a waste of time.

6. Comment to Discuss not to Win your argument.
You may win the argument with smarter or wittier remarks but in the end you don't really achieve anything. Worst of all, you might have held yourself back learning something from someone that might have actually had something real to say, just because you were too proud to allow yourself to be

Hopefully that is everything.

Point is Peaceful is the name of the game.

Thank you for reading this far.
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carusmm's avatar
Justice is blind, Ignorance is all-seeing.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
That is awesome! :D

That should be a quote.

I think I'll remember that quote for the rest of me life. ^____^

Thank you.
BrownBoxStudio's avatar
I think you might be rewarded from doing at least one of two thing.

1. Have you even tried asking yourself, when your in a weird situation where your feeling your ignorance has made you unrelated, "What could I be doing to make this situation better?"

2. Have you thought of sharing with those who you see ignorance in and explaining to them?

Ignorance can hold us back and your post makes me feel that your at the stage of understanding that you were ignorant and now that you are not you don't understand what to do with that knowledge. I don't think it is that you know to much but it is that you might not know what to do with all that knowledge. I think it could help you to spend time looking at why your doing what your currently doing.

Instead of asking yourself, "Why do I feel this way?" go ahead and ask yourself, "What doors and possibilities has this new thinking opened up for me?", "What can I do with this new knowledge?". Maybe your life will be headed in a new direction due to your change in thinking? Only you can decide that one.

One final thought, instead of focusing on all of the things that you might not enjoy now because of your new thinking why not focus on all of the positive effects of this new thought process? I feel you have opened up a world of possibilities for yourself but I wouldn't want you to weigh yourself down with negative side of things because in the end the negatives are not what matter and it is the positives that can get you moving forward.
BenkeArt's avatar
I understand what you mean. You have an interesting way of thinking. I think our humans have too short life for to know all about universe, at least for one single human. However, all the knowledge accumulated we have now seem to be a mere base. Maybe if all of us work for the same objective, thinking like a unity, like specie and not like an isolated being, we can reach a reason to be here.
Well, personally I try to reduce my ignorance through reading books, studying science and art. I know I can't be perfect, but if I can at least collaborate for human society with any study, any effort of thinking I will be more satisfied than I would have a normal life toward my greed.
This is my opinion. Thank you for read my reply!
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
Thank you for sharing :)

Life is too short that's for sure, I wish that people are able to work together.

I think, if people can start learning to change their negative thoughts and learn to keep positive ones in it's place. Not just selfish positive thoughts, but thoughts that are geared on improving human relations. If that happens the world will become a better place naturally.

Of course there is no such thing as a utopia, but is it really impossible to happen? I think it's only impossible because the greater majority of people don't believe it's possible. So if they think like that, it's no surprise that it is.

I believe it is possible :) people just need a reason to believe in it.
maejonin's avatar
This is not a religious debate. It is more of a philosophical one. I am a strong believer in the desire to know everything, however I also do not believe I will ever get to know everything.

Im sorry, but does it just say philosophy forums, or that its philosophy and religion.


And argue and dicussion can mean about the same thing.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
Well, you misunderstand me then.

(The following definitions are by my personal definition.)

Arguing to me = A conversation that goes nowhere, where one and/or the other is speaking only to "MAKE" the other listen but nobody is listening. In other words, a waste of time. That what I meant by arguement.

Discussion to me = A conversation where one says one thing the other listens and the other says a response then the other listens. An understanding is created between the parties involved in 'said discussion' and everyone gets to learn something new. Which hopefully ends up re-enforcing what they originally believed in or demolishing old views to replace it with new and fresh sets of beliefs.

(The Following are by websters definition)

Arguing - Aimed to "persuade" someone to share one's view. (So that means the goal is to get the other to agree with you)

Discussion - Aimed for consideration or examination by comment, response, etc., especially to explore solutions. (So that means the goal is to come to an answer "together".)

I think discussion is better, simply because it doesn't aim to force one's beliefs down another's throat. Although an argument if handled well can be positive, it can get nasty when you aren't able to get the other to agree with you. So if you enter into a discussion without expecting to convince the other to agree with you but instead allow the person to come to their own decision, it typically ends positively.

Your statement, "And argue and dicussion can mean about the same thing." is about right, but if the two words mean exactly the same thing, they wouldn't need to be coined in the first place. The context is different, so therefore there is a reason why two different words are needed because each represents a purpose for different situations, even though they have similar meanings. (mouthful... >___>)

You began this conversation with a topic that is outside the subject of this thread, but because I'm more interested discussion, I will answer your questions as respectful as possible. So I would hope you would do the same for me.

So now that I answered one, I will now answer the other. I'm sure I haven't broken any rules when I said that I wanted to make a Philosophical one. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you are informing me that I'm stepping off the rules, so I read the rules over and it doesn't say that I'm not allowed to choose which side I'd like to have a discussion about in a tread called "Philosophy and Religion".

However I'm not a bigot. So if you want to make a religious debate I will gladly have a discussion with you, but if you do or say anything that starts to turn it into an ugly argument, I'm afraid that I will have to end it.

I don't have the energy or attention span long enough to maintain a heated argument. (I really don't) So on that note; so that we don't end up wasting time each others time starting one. I'll save you the trouble and let you know in advance that, "Whatever you argue against me in the future I accept and agree with everything you are going to say, that you are smarter than me and you definitely are right no matter what I say or do. Even when I try my best to turn it back to a peaceful discussion."

So hopefully you understand that I'm peaceful. :)
Ironhold's avatar
For the bit about learning -

There's a difference between "learning" and "applying what one has learned to practice in the real world."

It does no good for a person to sit and "learn" if all they do each day is sit.

Speaking as someone who's been through academia (I have an MBA), I'd rather keep company with an "uneducated" man that is possessed of desire and common sense than an "educated" man who is too busy holding his nose up at the world to do anything about it.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
Do you really learn if you all you do is study and sit all day? If you do not apply what you know, are you really learning?

I know that right now I'm unable to do much about the things I'd like to see happen in this world, but I'm still trying to figure out how I can be useful for this world before I die.

I agree that I would much rather company an uneducated man than a stuck up, because one can be uneducated but not ignorant and visa versa another can be educated but still ignorant.

I know a lot of the things I said makes me sound arrogant and stuck up, but I really mean to correct this. I don't believe I'm being arrogant, just having a thought doesn't make someone arrogant. It's just introspective thoughts that concern me (A LOT). I think I would be arrogant if I believed that I'm more enlightened than everyone in this whole world. In fact I believe the opposite. I truly believe that I have so much to learn before I'm ready to face the world with my concerns, but what I'm trying to find out is, how do I go about achieving this?

Is it arrogance that I want to help the world because I'm concerned about it? I mean even I ask myself that question every single day of my life, who the hell do I think I am that I want to help encourage new ways of positive thinking to people of earth? I'm not Ghandi, but I think it's irresponsible to see an elephant in the room and choose to ignore it.

I don't actually believe that everyone I meet are ignorant. I know people are deeper than the surface they present themselves and even sometimes they really aren't as bad as you perceived them. It's just that at that time and at that confrontation the people involved are the ones who act ignorant and bigotted because of a misunderstanding. I don't even believe that the people I end up having an argument with are ignorant. I don't confuse the results of an interaction with who they are as a whole, but I do think that it could have ended differently. It could have been more peaceful, and it could have ended with both people learning something and bettering themselves, or at least I wish it would end that way...

That is the tragedy that troubles me.

I've seen so many things in this world that troubles me greatly, hate, violence, bigotry, greed, fear mongers... the list goes on... these are my definitions of what stirs the pot of ignorance. I'd like to contribute to this world the idea of believing that the goal of ending most of it is possible. I'm not naive to believe that these things will permanently go away (for now), but what's the harm in trying right? The problem is that most people believe that it's impossible to make these things go away, but isn't that the problem?

They "BELIEVE" it is "IMPOSSIBLE" these keywords are soooo important, I truly believe this, but I opened this thread because, how better to challenge those thoughts than to throw it into the lions den of Deviantart, right? :D I might learn something new that supports my thoughts, or even better I might learn something that changes the way I think. This is my process of learning, and I don't just sit down and do nothing. I plan a lot of this everyday, and I really want to do something for the world. Just not yet because I'm just not ready. :) (I mean look at me from my posts, the world will EAT ME ALIVE. Hahaha!)

So I leave you with this thought:

"If people keep thinking that it's impossible, do you think these things will ever go away?" However flip that thought and say, "What would happen if most of humanity (if not everyone) believes that they can contribute to help create the enviroment necessary to allow for the possibility of it actually going away?" and final thought is, they don't stop at believing, they actually act upon that dream and then maybe some day, at some future, it will happen.

Anyway, I ramble too much... I try not to but it's hard to compress everything I want to say in a few words. Especially when I'm so passionate about it. I hope I was clear and I didn't offend you. I really hate conflicts and I always try to talk in a manner that doesn't invite it. (Hopefully...)
Ironhold's avatar
You presume that only certain people can ever do anything, correct?

If so, then you really ought to go and take a look around.

Everyone can do something to make the world a better place, even if it's just in their own little circle.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
Actually that isn't what I meant, I meant that people are all capable of great things. It's just that people limit themselves by telling themselves that things cannot be changed because they are small and insignificant.

Imagine what the future would be like if people took action upon the things they find wrong about the world and actually tried to work together with others for the shared goal of making it a better place for all.

Of course it's a utopian paradox, because you cannot have good without the bad... but what's the harm in trying to work together to make the future a better place?

I know that it would make me happier if I found a small community where I can make a difference in a small scale, but sadly my Bi-Polar makes me ambitious. I want to do my best to take my place in humanity to become a fine example (Of course I don't know what that is but I'd rather try and fail than to not try at all).

I know I talk too much, I apologise for getting too passionate. I know that it can get tiring, I just hope that even for a little bit I was able to give you positive things to think about and maybe even ponder on the type of person you wish to become before your inevitable end (Whenever that may be and may it be that you have a long and happy life). Then at least I didn't waste your time. :)
Lifh's avatar
Scientifically, there IS such a thing as "knowing too much" because the brain can only take in and process so much information before it dumps old information until it just stops. I thought that was common knowledge, but apparently, I was wrong.

It depends on the individual, honestly. If the individual is a hard-core bible-thumper, then despite all evidence, they will not accept evolution. The only limit is the limit you make, except for what I said above, when your brain literally takes in too much information to handle.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
I know that the most languages one person ever learned was 68. I could be wrong, but I think that is amazing. :D

I knew that it was possible to learn so much that your brain cannot contain it all. So what it tends to do is drop knowledge that is used the least. I think this process is called extinction. Something I could also be wrong, but it's something I remembered from the top of my head.

What I meant about knowing too much is, in situations where your knowledge gets you into trouble. Like people get upset because what you talk about goes against what they believe. Problem is that I always tell people that this is something I learned and only wanted to share with people who are willing to listen. The conflict I experience is that I get people who call me stupid for believing in what I said, but that is completely wrong. I don't automatically accept that everything I know is a fact... but something that I learned and currently hold as facinating until someone tells me something new that changes that way of thinking. Then I research on what they said and correct my outdated thinking.

I love to learn new things... the problem is, that sometimes I get into trouble because I share with some people what I know and they get vicious... T____T So I started to wonder what's the point of knowledge if I get into trouble for it. Of course my thirst is still stronger than my worries... so I guess I'm like a guinea pig that doesn't learn no matter how many times I get zapped. Haha :D

I could get killed one day because of my inability to know when my knowledge is necessary/warrented or not. Which is why I started this thread. I don't want to die because of people who wish to stay ignorant or bigotted...

Anyway... I hope my rabblings made sense, I worry a lot now a days whether or not I am capable of conveying the thoughts in my head. That could be a reason for people misunderstanding me. :)

You mentioned in your comment about bible thumpers, I avoid those people like the PLAGUE! :D Unless they are willing to have a constructive philosophical discussion. I'm always open to those. ^____^
Lifh's avatar
That is amazing! But honestly, how pratical is knowing 68 languages? Can that person even speak it all fluently? Because if you 68 words, each one in a different language, then technically you can speak 68 languages.

It depends on the knowledge and the person. Since your reply is very cryptic, I can not have an opinion for sure, because I'll no idea what I'll be talking about.

But I do want to know what kind people you know and friends you have that would kill you over something so trivial? 0_o

I don't mind people being... um... assertive with their religion, that is trying to convert other people to their way of thinking. Its when those people are downright hateful and stupid is when I get pissed off.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
I know right? :D I think the person can speak all 68 fluently, but don't underestimate the power of the brain. People don't always get a chance to push the limits of how much their brain can take. However it could be 68 languages that are near similar to each other. So maybe he's cheating ahaha, who knows.

I have to apologise for not being able to explain myself better, I will try though. I think it's cryptic because I have ADHD... so I tend to have 5-10 things whizzing in my head and that is at the least. So trying to stay on topic is challenging for me.

Anyway, here are the points I'll try my best to summarize it:

I tend to get into trouble because of the knowledge I share with others. I'm not saying this is always, but it is a significant enough amount that it bothers me. Sadly the people I'm talking about are mostly my family (Aunties and Uncles) and a lot of the things they know are outdated and old school. So I get into a lot of trouble when I try to talk with them about the things they are trying to force me to believe in. I don't want to become the type of person that ignores family just because I find it hard to talk with them, problem is that it really IS HARD to talk "WITH" them. Sigh...

What I meant by it killing me one day is a little darker than how I said it. My hidden agenda there is that it might be I that kills myself, but I'm not a quitter and I will never take my own life. So in the end it might be stress that kills me. Irony is beautiful and poetic, such is the philosophy of life. :)

----


About the last paragraph you wrote, you are SO spot on about what I'm talking about. I love to talk to people and listen to the things they believe in and swear by, but that's where it stops for me. I want to learn about them and what they know, but I don't want to BECOME them. There is no point to life if all I'm going to do is copy the way someone else lives.

So that is what I meant by knowing too much... I have too much knowledge about many things that I'm not easy to fool. If you tell me about something I never knew about, I would accept what you said, but I would research it first and learn more about it, before I come to a conclusion that what you said is valid.

Maybe that is what gets me into trouble... because when someone tells me something, my natural stance is to think that you are are neither right or wrong until I've confirmed it myself through research so I can come to my own educated conclusion. Maybe my family don't like it when I don't accept what they say as truth as immediately as they wish I should... >____<

I think I've found my answer... the only thing to do now is to talk to them about it. Hopefully I don't get into trouble again... Conflict is so tiring... :P
Lifh's avatar
WOW! You come up with really long replies. *Gets Popcorn* Okay, now get this essay started! >:P

I have schizophrenia. :)

It sounds to me like those family members are closed-minded. They believe that their in the right no matter what, and since their older then you, I assume, then they believe they don't have to listen to you or take you seriously.

I guess in order for relationships (of any kind) to work, then you need to be able to talk without one of you being rude and trying to block the other out. Personally, the fact that somebody had some genetic code that's vaguely similar to mine doesn't not warrant actually having a relationship with them. For one, their people and most of the time they always have controverting likes and dislike and ideas and philosophical beliefs that are different then yours or most of the time is directly the opposite of yours. Its difficult to have a relationship with such a person in the first place, let alone when that person is very rude and treats you and your words like worthless piece's of crap.

N
O
B
O
D
Y

has the right to force you to believe in anything! If somebody is trying to FORCE their beliefs on you with their power over you by simply being older, then you need to break your relationship off with them or tell them that NOBODY has the right to tell you what to believe in. You are YOUR OWN MIND, and you are a HUMAN BEING. You have rights just as much rights as everybody else. If you want to be a Satanist then you have a full right to be, no matter how young, and NO ONE has the right to tell you otherwise.

My father talks about people who commit suicide in the same way you do. As pathetic people who are weak and are better off dead because their quitters. That's just not true. People who commit suicide are just people who feel like there is no other way out from an inescapable suffering in their life. And perhaps if they feel their suffering is that bad that they feel the need to end their lives, then how wrong can they be? They were people who needed help but didn't get it.

There is no such thing as being to knowledgeable. However, there is a such a thing as being too closed-minded. Whoever is putting these ideas in your head is WRONG. For one, NOBODY should take whatever some else says as the truth and nothing as the truth. Like I said before, you ARE NOT a mindless drone! You have the right to think for yourself. Its obvious that these people have NO respect for you!

If you get in "Trouble" as in they try to restrict your rights, perhaps it is time to end your relationship? I would never continue being around people who treated me with such arrogance and disrespect.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
Sorry for the long replies I need to learn to control that. ADHD makes it hard to keep on track of things I want to say.

Wow, schizophrenia is not good... I have Bi-Polar and ADHD, I don`t enjoy them at all, but I don`t think I would like schizophrenia very much. I hope medication is able to help you as it does for my disabilities.

But you are right, no one has the right to tell me how to live my life or how to think. Problem is that I`ve been brought up to respect my elders and it`s more of a habit for me that I cannot kick off easily. Mind you I do speak my mind while still trying my best to be peaceful, but you seem to have a good Idea on the kind of people they are from my descriptions... so, it`s pointless...

Regarding suicide, I apologise for being unclear I do not blame people for taking actions on their own lives. It really is their choice and I do not think they are weak or pathetic. It`s just something only pertaining to me. The reason for why I said I would never kill myself is that I perceive it as quitting. However that was directed at me because I have goals and dreams that I must accomplish no matter what. So killing myself would on that note would make me a quitter.

However I think people who commit suicide without having a clear mind is not fair. I accept that people who have a clear mind is okay to make that decision because it truly was theirs to make. I don't think a severely depressed person has the right mind set to make such a drastic action because if they didn't have an affected mind, they might have made different choices. Then again that's my opinion, only because I know what it's like to be severly depressed. Bi-Polar helps make this very easy... so on normal circumstances I don't even think of suicide as an option.

Damn I wrote too much again... sigh... anyway thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me. I will always be willing to talk with you if you have anything to ask me. I will always listen (in this case... read. :))
Mercury-Crowe's avatar
I think it is possible to know to much- in that you can understand factors and consequences of your actions that make that action harder to take. Knowing all sides can make a decision much harder.

Having limited information can make those things easier.

I tend to see all sides of an issue, and it's always a problem. You wind up never feeling like you're really doing any true good as there is always a bad side.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
Wow, that is exactly how I feel all the time. Sometimes I end up knowing too much about something that someone else isn't knowledgable about and knowledge is power. I truly believe this.

Sometimes I have to make fast decisions on how to interact with someone because I don't know how they will take my opinion on something. They might appreciate it, but they could also think that you're a know-it-all arrogant prick... :P problem is to know when it's okay to use your knowledge and when it's better to hold back, because no one likes a know-it-all and especially someone who makes them feel dumb for not knowing what you know.

Problem is that I tend to get so excited when I talk to someone that I'm very knowledgable in and I blabber on in my happy world of what I know, but some people get offended if it goes against what they think... but I was so happy to talk about something that I thought was exciting... I wasn't trying to go against their beliefs, I was trying to share what I know... I think that is was upsets me a lot...

I feel that I get hated on or misunderstood a lot when my intentions are typically opposite of what they hated me for... T___T
siegeonthorstadt's avatar
simply because you have adjectified yourself with ideologies that are mistakenly taken as positive in certain closed circiles doesnt mean that anyone else having a different way of expressing themselves have to be less smarter. it also doesnt mean that once you automatically adhere yourself to this philosophy you are suddenly one of them or somehow better or more open minded than the people that are out of the circle. one can be einstein and still be a bigot. except that his work will result in countless political conspiricies instead of research, but one cant criticize the context of mental data produced by looking at the negative result, coming from einstein being morally positive while his research having been resulted in being misused to be an ultimate negativity.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
Quite right, I understand very well about the
conundrum of the things I've said in this post.

I hate ignorance, so much that it affects me
a lot, but it could be that it is I that is
ignorant and not the person who I think is
ignorant. So I try my best to smile and listen
to people even if I start to think they are
completely nuts. It does become circular when
I realize that we are just misunderstanding
each other. At that point I really want to
understand that person but I also really want
that person to understand me. It's my OCD. The
moment I feel the need for something, it gets
very hard to stay calm. I hide it well though
because I hate conflict more than ignorance.

Probably the biggest tragedy in my opinion is
that if I am having a discussion with someone
and what we say to each other is lost due to
miscommunication. I find it worse when it is
on the internet because people don't see when
you are being ACTUALLY rude or you're only just
trying to say something neutrally. (I mean this
in the tones of voices and facial recognitions.)
Of course it's different if the person is being
rude with obvious keys such as: "$^#& You you
*&^hole!" AHAHA! Then at that time I tell them
the conversation is over if no matter how I
respond to them, no matter how respectful I react,
they still throw insults at me. OMG JUST THINKING
OF IT BURNS ME UP!!! >____< ahaha...

(okay I'm calm...) :D

Most internet conflicts could have been avoided
people understood that their annoyances, or
reactions to a post was only due to the fact that
they are confronting a cold computer that is
without emotion, and not a human that tried to
express themselves. I truly believe if people
tried their best not to see the negative in things
people say, off and on the internet, the world
would become just that little bit better.

I always try my best to retranslate what I hear
and repeat it in my head over and over again the
things people say that piss me off because, what
if it's because I misunderstood what they said?
If I couldn't understand still, I politely ask
for them to clarify some more. If they really are
just being bigotted or just plain assholish, then
I say goodbye and turn around. Problem is, I
cannot hold my internal storm well enough that
it doesn't hurt me.

That is my problem I really want to change. That
hatred that causes me to hate and be hateful and fall
into spiral reasoning. I hate myself so much when that
happens... >____<

:) Hopefully I explained what I said as clearly as
possible. Like I said, I do hate conflict and I tend
to avoid them as much as possible by redirection. If
that doesn't work no matter how hard I try. I'll
just politely step back and walk away.
siegeonthorstadt's avatar
Quite right, I understand very well about the
conundrum of the things I've said in this post.

I hate ignorance, so much that it affects me
a lot, but it could be that it is I that is
ignorant and not the person who I think is
ignorant. So I try my best to smile and listen
to people even if I start to think they are
completely nuts. It does become circular when
I realize that we are just misunderstanding
each other. At that point I really want to
understand that person but I also really want
that person to understand me. It's my OCD. The
moment I feel the need for something, it gets
very hard to stay calm. I hide it well though
because I hate conflict more than ignorance.


Ah I see how that can be a problem. The other problem is that you like conversing I guess. Most people don't, they see it as a requirement to survive or like a kind of response that they feel obligated to feel responsible for, and they express it in different ways since they want to stay inside the walls of legitimate politeness. This lack of integrity probably throws you off and you can't put your finger on it.

Probably the biggest tragedy in my opinion is
that if I am having a discussion with someone
and what we say to each other is lost due to
miscommunication.


I understand that pretty well haha.

I find it worse when it is
on the internet because people don't see when
you are being ACTUALLY rude or you're only just
trying to say something neutrally. (I mean this
in the tones of voices and facial recognitions.)
Of course it's different if the person is being
rude with obvious keys such as: "$^#& You you
*&^hole!" AHAHA! Then at that time I tell them
the conversation is over if no matter how I
respond to them, no matter how respectful I react,
they still throw insults at me. OMG JUST THINKING
OF IT BURNS ME UP!!! >____< ahaha...


Yeah.. Even when someone uses cursing language it feels much worse trough the internet since, well, a lot of factors, as you have said the lack of expressions and tone being the number one. Also due to those other factors people feel masked and invulnurable on the internet and want to express their true selves without the hinderence of social rules and moral expectations and laws. But hatred harms the owner first, so their aggression turns into continued abuse where it would become physical or vocal aggression in reality.

(okay I'm calm...) :D

Most internet conflicts could have been avoided
people understood that their annoyances, or
reactions to a post was only due to the fact that
they are confronting a cold computer that is
without emotion, and not a human that tried to
express themselves. I truly believe if people
tried their best not to see the negative in things
people say, off and on the internet, the world
would become just that little bit better.

I always try my best to retranslate what I hear
and repeat it in my head over and over again the
things people say that piss me off because, what
if it's because I misunderstood what they said?
If I couldn't understand still, I politely ask
for them to clarify some more. If they really are
just being bigotted or just plain assholish, then
I say goodbye and turn around. Problem is, I
cannot hold my internal storm well enough that
it doesn't hurt me.</strong>

Exactly. They don't even see the computer, its a kind of text that materializes their negative emotions that they see and it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation rather than communicating in a hindered way. Probably negative things are easy to pick out from a text on the internet where it would go unnoticed or forgiven in a face-to-face talk.

That's a nice thing you do but there's no way to diminish the internal storm so I can't advice you to "better let it out on the spot" since there's no such thing like that on the internet.

Also the points and arguments on the internet are written. Treating them as if they are said would be really wrong. You agree with something written or you don't agree, you can write why you don't agree if a response is possible, but turning it into a face-to-face conflict is not good. The eternal question between textualism and verbalism. You can't mix the two..

That is my problem I really want to change. That
hatred that causes me to hate and be hateful and fall
into spiral reasoning. I hate myself so much when that
happens... >____<


Don't change yourself because of other people. Especially on the internet. Either stop doing it or find a certain closed community on the internet that are like-minded with you on this subject. There are places like that.

:) Hopefully I explained what I said as clearly as
possible. Like I said, I do hate conflict and I tend
to avoid them as much as possible by redirection. If
that doesn't work no matter how hard I try. I'll
just politely step back and walk away.


You did lol. You even explained my problems and make me think on them. I prejudicely stepped in for an empty intellectual-sounding troll but it wasn't deserved by you so sorry haha. Actually I will do that - find some research or whatever based community to find people to discuss, even if they're like "we know everything worm!" style. That's better than "you know better than me, I feel inferior but I won't let you get away with it!"-based insults.
DigitalRippleARTs's avatar
:iconmother-of-god-plz:
Your style of replying to a long post was GENIUS!!! :D I think I might do that from now on! I didn't misunderstand a single thing you typed and I didn't even find the need to re-read any part.

Ah I see how that can be a problem. The other problem is that you like conversing I guess. Most people don't, they see it as a requirement to survive or like a kind of response that they feel obligated to feel responsible for, and they express it in different ways since they want to stay inside the walls of legitimate politeness. This lack of integrity probably throws you off and you can't put your finger on it.

I suppose not a lot of people like to talk on the internet, but I think it's because of the ingrained "net" culture. People are afraid of looking dumb or afraid of encountering someone who is dumb so they end up choosing not to respond. You are spot on though, I love to conversate with all types of people. For what I want to do in this world, I think it's a highly valuable skill to be able to reduce conflict created due to cultural differences. However you are absolutely right about how it could throw me off when someone doesn't even bother to try see it my way, when I try so hard to view it their way. Of course at that point I know it's not their obligation and it doesn't make them impolite to choose not to see it my way. (Although it doesn't stop me from experiencing that oh-so-familiar anger, which I am forced to restrain.)

Exactly. They don't even see the computer, its a kind of text that materializes their negative emotions that they see and it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation rather than communicating in a hindered way. Probably negative things are easy to pick out from a text on the internet where it would go unnoticed or forgiven in a face-to-face talk.

Oh I loved what you said here: "...it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation..." that is SO true. I discovered this about myself a few years back and I realized that, a lot of the times, it wasn't the person on the other side of the computer that I was arguing with, but a self destructive confrontation against my own self. And all because I misunderstood something someone said that I ended up getting angry at what I thought they said when actually it wasn't what they said at all. So who was I really fighting against? The person? or myself?

I'd say it was my self image and respect I was destroying when I realized what I idiot I made myself to be.

Don't change yourself because of other people. Especially on the internet. Either stop doing it or find a certain closed community on the internet that are like-minded with you on this subject. There are places like that.

That was probably the best advice I've heard in a long time. However, I'm not doing this for other people and especially not for the internet. I'm doing this to find the self I believe is who I wish to be. I know that the saying is be yourself, but I always felt there was something wrong with that statement. So I changed it to, "Be yourself but be the best of who you are and what you can be." One day, I want to lie down on my death bed thinking, I did the best I could with what I had and became the best person I could ever be. I should be proud and satisfied.

Thing is, it would be good to find like-minded people, but I fear that we might end up just always agreeing with each other that in the end we don't really learn anything because there was no one there to challenge the way we thought. I don't want to become arrogant, not saying that I will, but it might happen... So maybe I should find them, but have them in small doses Hahaha :D

You did lol. You even explained my problems and make me think on them. I prejudicely stepped in for an empty intellectual-sounding troll but it wasn't deserved by you so sorry haha. Actually I will do that - find some research or whatever based community to find people to discuss, even if they're like "we know everything worm!" style. That's better than "you know better than me, I feel inferior but I won't let you get away with it!"-based insults.

I think this learning experience was mutual. :) I don't know to what value you learned from me (I hope it is something that you find valuable) but I definitely feel that I learned a lot from this conversation with you.

I'm not really surprised that you thought I was being a troll. Even I was afraid of pressing the submit button after I finished writing this thread. I could see how it could be view negatively, but I must always remember to give people the benefit of the doubt that it wouldn't always be received negatively. If people trash talk me, that's just the way things works sometimes. All I can do is try to redirect what they thought and do my best to uphold my principles of calm and peaceful handling in tough situations. If I become hateful or violent with my words, then that means that I'm a failure and I learned nothing, therefore losing the right to talk (self-applied right). Because anything else I would say would contradict me and my philosophy of life, turning me into the thing I hate the most:

A bigotted and ignoramus baffoon. :D

Not words you hear everyday huh? hehehe
siegeonthorstadt's avatar
Your style of replying to a long post was GENIUS!!! :D I think I might do that from now on! I didn't misunderstand a single thing you typed and I didn't even find the need to re-read any part.

Haha thanks. Just easier for the eye candy. Sorry for the late reply btw, I was just uhm, spending my energy to a more negative discussion. Ironic right?

I suppose not a lot of people like to talk on the internet, but I think it's because of the ingrained "net" culture. People are afraid of looking dumb or afraid of encountering someone who is dumb so they end up choosing not to respond. You are spot on though, I love to conversate with all types of people. For what I want to do in this world, I think it's a highly valuable skill to be able to reduce conflict created due to cultural differences. However you are absolutely right about how it could throw me off when someone doesn't even bother to try see it my way, when I try so hard to view it their way. Of course at that point I know it's not their obligation and it doesn't make them impolite to choose not to see it my way. (Although it doesn't stop me from experiencing that oh-so-familiar anger, which I am forced to restrain.)

Yeah it's actually weird that people indeed want to be faceless on the net but than in other times want to be known by everybody for their smartness. Actually recently I noticed that people respect intelligence or what passes as intelligence on a whim regardless of their level of thought, morals or education. Also a funny thing.

You're pretty much on a right way to think that quality discussion ends conflicts. Actually this works best between literative people, ie intellectuals. When they do respect the constants that they have both grown up with only slightly touching them when necesary, they do come to an understanding in the end, or at least a mutual exchange of disagreement rather than mis-understanding. I used to hate literal criticism but only for this concept I started to respect it.

It is really not impolite for them to see it in their way, but that's different than just cursing at somebody for it. Cursing in a discussion usually proves fallacy. But anger is a natural feeling to experience, you just get stuck because our genes are not well adapted to let anger out trough text typing. Maybe having a punchbag next to the pc would help. I mean it's actually wrong to be angry over an internet discussion but it happens, people cant help it, me included.

Oh I loved what you said here: "...it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation..." that is SO true. I discovered this about myself a few years back and I realized that, a lot of the times, it wasn't the person on the other side of the computer that I was arguing with, but a self destructive confrontation against my own self. And all because I misunderstood something someone said that I ended up getting angry at what I thought they said when actually it wasn't what they said at all. So who was I really fighting against? The person? or myself?

I'd say it was my self image and respect I was destroying when I realized what I idiot I made myself to be.


Well at least you have seen yourself. You can only see the parts of yourself when they are distanced from you. So that means what you criticized about yourself was already pretty much externalized by your true feelings. Most people fail this and just go on being upset over the internet. Bad news is that government agents and police etc are also in this group that gets overly upset lol.

That was probably the best advice I've heard in a long time. However, I'm not doing this for other people and especially not for the internet. I'm doing this to find the self I believe is who I wish to be. I know that the saying is be yourself, but I always felt there was something wrong with that statement. So I changed it to, "Be yourself but be the best of who you are and what you can be." One day, I want to lie down on my death bed thinking, I did the best I could with what I had and became the best person I could ever be. I should be proud and satisfied.

Thanks for all the kind words :) Well that's actually the best thing to do. Change for your self. For example we all whine about how India changed from a simple apperance of British, but actually we are disregarding the mimic factor that has developed in India and that currently British\Indian academicians and intellectuals being far more smarter than both British and Indian counterparts. I am giving this example as to show that changing for yourself in the effect of other people will put you in the advantage of those other people as long as you have the right mindset.

Thing is, it would be good to find like-minded people, but I fear that we might end up just always agreeing with each other that in the end we don't really learn anything because there was no one there to challenge the way we thought. I don't want to become arrogant, not saying that I will, but it might happen... So maybe I should find them, but have them in small doses Hahaha :D

Well that does happen :D Best enviroment is the place where you are either honestly and blatantly enemies with your opponents or just very close friends that are only sharing information with each other. Believe me honest enemies are more understanding than anti-critics from your own species.

I think this learning experience was mutual. :) I don't know to what value you learned from me (I hope it is something that you find valuable) but I definitely feel that I learned a lot from this conversation with you.

That's nice. See? We didn't even have to participate in a mutal first-line family member abuse investiagtions in order to make each other learn something.

I'm not really surprised that you thought I was being a troll. Even I was afraid of pressing the submit button after I finished writing this thread. I could see how it could be view negatively, but I must always remember to give people the benefit of the doubt that it wouldn't always be received negatively. If people trash talk me, that's just the way things works sometimes. All I can do is try to redirect what they thought and do my best to uphold my principles of calm and peaceful handling in tough situations. If I become hateful or violent with my words, then that means that I'm a failure and I learned nothing, therefore losing the right to talk (self-applied right). Because anything else I would say would contradict me and my philosophy of life, turning me into the thing I hate the most:

A bigotted and ignoramus baffoon. :D


Well thats how things are. You are right to think this way. I myself didn't even doubt before replying you with an anti-troll-troll to your post :p So you win on the grounds of self-awareness.

Not words you hear everyday huh? hehehe

Not really haha.

Now let me try to answer briefly to the first parts of your post.

1. Is there a God?

Actually I have argued this on many grounds. The fact is that even a materialist person has to accept the existance of God, on social and juridical terms. Actually God is more provable on a social aspect than a spiritual one. But spirituality is not proof-obsessed to begin with. Anyway let me try to quote you from a computer game to answer lol:

Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me. We long for a caring Universe which will save us from our childish mistakes, and in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary we will pin all our hopes on the slimmest of doubts. God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist.

Academician Prokhor Zakharov


I know how crap it is to quote from a game but afterall the author has a good point. Cant help it :p

But you see all this argument is obsessed around the idea that human has to be convinced in order to prove God. Even though that it isn't the case with almost most of the beliefs in the world. Many of them will easily tell you that God doesn't need the aproval of people to exist or do anything, but many like to convince the other side in order to comance with the discussion which many of them also enjoy to make.

2. Will there ever be unity in humanity?

How do you define unity? Does it have to be long-lasting? Well I ask because I want to point out that there were times when there was unity in humanity. Like in helenistic Macedonia, Antique Persia or the fabled Celts as in unity in the "known world" of their times, but these all came with sword and militaristic operation. There were also the minor unities like the Carthige, the Alexandria times, Abbasi Kalihpdom times, Sytchia, Sarmatia, golden age of Al Andulus etc. But these have all been short lived no matter how their effects echoed in the future generations. I do believe that the same will repeat itself several times in future history but I also tend to believe that ALL of humanity will once unite altogether.

Why do I believe that? Because I observed that all the "secret organizations" illumunatis, half-demons, super-rich people, elders etc that we have replaced with the deeper government in our world of fantastic inventions, are actually nothing but the deprived interpretations of thought-upon human nature. Everything in history that has developed or devolved can be explained by the un-surpassed hegemony of human nature. So what is human nature? It tends to strike for perfection or at least modest perfection, so I come to the natural conclusion that if this is the constant rulership in human history, than human history has to come to an agreement at one point.

3. Is there even a meaning to life?

This is the question with the longest reply but without answer. Actually the search for meaning of life directs everything in a humans life. Therefore a philosophy that plays trough this culvar will always have major effects. I personally believe that life is just a shadow of afterlife. So the point is to make the afterlife.