Shop Mobile More Submit  Join Login

Details

Closed to new replies
January 22, 2013
Link

Statistics

Replies: 47

Free Us From Ignorance

:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Professional General Artist
In this life we have many questions. Some are answered, some are left unanswered, but sometimes there are some answers that you may or may not believe you should know the answers to.

Like:

1. Is there a God?
2. Will there ever be unity in humanity?
3. Is there even a meaning to life?

This is not a religious debate. It is more of a philosophical one. I am a strong believer in the desire to know everything, however I also do not believe I will ever get to know everything.

The question for the discussion I would like to raise is:

Do you believe one can know too much and there is a limit to how much one should attempt to learn before it becomes more harm than good, or do you believe that knowledge is out there for us to take in the palm of our hands and there is no such thing as knowing too much?

I would like to believe that there is no limit, because there is so much wonder in this world and I would love to be able to live my life unrestrained when it comes to knowing. However, lately I'm beginning to doubt whether or not it is good to know so much. I don't know if I've become arrogant, (I would like to believe I'm not) but I get so tired of uninteligent, ignorant people. Of course I understand it is their choice to live how they please and what they learn, but I believe that the world is capable of so much and we the people of earth are holding ourselves back.

Imagine a world where ignorance is something everyone aspired to escape and community is something that everyone dreams to achieve. A world where people work for the end result, not the monetary gains they acquire. Money is a thing of the past and people work together, not just for themselves, but for the betterment of all humanity. Of course people should be compensated for their work, but I think that it shouldn't be money. I believe that the end result should be "THE DREAM" to see their hard work come to fruition and THAT is compensation enough.

Community isn't predominant anymore and is close to none existent and that is sad, but I see it EVERYWHERE. Just... not in the way it benefits man kind. What I mean by this is that everyone still works together (somewhat) but only for selfish self-serving purposes. It is this stupid tug of war where everyone is tugging at everything for what they feel they are entitled to, and you know what happens if two people of equal strength try to pull against each other: they go no where.

The internet is the biggest community the world has ever invented, but you know how most of it is known for... Porn and a Gate Way to laugh at dumb people on Youtube... sigh... I'm not saying I don't find some of these things enticing to laugh at silly people doing idiotic things videos but it's not so funny anymore (Rather, it is harder to laugh at it now a days). I truly believe man kind is capable of more but we can never see this happen while the few remain rich and wealthy leaders, and the majority become mindless ignorant followers who cannot wait for their next paycheck so that they can spend it on something quick and useless.

Now... if you are wondering how this relates to the question, it has everything to do with it.

I used to be ignorant about my ignorance (I know and accept that I can never not-be-ignorant) and I know I don't know everything. However at a price I might know so much that it came at the cost of my happiness. I used to be so happy and I used to look at people with such wide-eyed brightness, but now (although I always give people the benefit of the doubt that they aren't mindless ignorant followers), it's hard not to get pissed off when I meet one that is.

I fume behind a fake smile always trying to be understanding, always trying to forgive people for their ignorant behaviours. (Forgive might be too arrogant, but I can't find a better word) It isn't their fault that they don't know what you know, but more of mine for not being able to relate or accept them for who they are.

Please do not take this as arrogance, although I know it sounds that way, I just want to talk about this with people who are interested in what I'm saying, or are like minded, or people who used to think like this but have become enlightened above the state that I currently am. I know that I can very well be wrong for my way of thinking, which is why I lay it out so plainly. I want to change the way I think and become free from this burden I've allowed myself to bare. If anyone can discuss this with me, I would highly appreciate it.

So I return to the question: Could it be that I know too much, or I know way more than I can handle and that I am not ready to know what I know because of my immaturity or irresponsible responses to certain "ignorances"?

These are things I battle with internally everyday. Do you feel the same way? or Do you think you have an answer/response to it?

Thank You for reading up to here. If you plan to comment, please read the conditions below.

CONDITIONS:

1. I am here to discuss, NOT ARGUE.
My response to someone who just wants to argue is to ignore them. I will try to keep discussing with you on your points, but if it gets too angry, I will just say goodbye. I don't anger easy, but only because I don't allow it to escalate to that point. So I would appreciate if you do the same for me. You may find that it is I that is ignorant so please be patient with me and try to explain this without treating me like a fool and I will do the same for you.

2. Make sure that you read EVERYTHING that was written here.
Nothing is more aggrivating than someone who replies to only one thing from a long comment and what they said completely misunderstands what was intended. I would request that you give a benefit of a doubt that whatever someone says, no matter how you understood it, to see it from the way they said it. Just because you believe someone is wrong doesn't mean that what they said was ACTUALLY wrong. You might have misread it. So please re-read if necessary. People get hot headed too fast and end up making a fool of themselves so please try not to make this into a thread of fools.

3. Respect is given before received.
No matter how stupid or ignorant someone may appear, they may not ACTUALLY be ignorant. (I know this contradicts what I said above, but I do respect everything anyone says, even if I don't agree with it.) It may be that you misunderstood was said, so please maintain coolness and respect, and even if you never receive respect in the end, the one that stays calm in the end is the most respectable of all. Never stoop to someone elses level, because even if you aren't dumb/ignorant/disrespectful in real life, you still displayed that you are very capable of it, and it's better to never show this side of you to anyone but yourself.

4. Do not respond with single comments.
I took time to type this and carefully word it so that I don't sound stupid (so I hope:)). If you have something to say, please explain why you said what you said and why you believe what you said is valid. Please do your best to explain what you want to say as clearly as you can so to prevent misunderstandings. If a misunderstanding occurs, please ask first before attacking someone for something that you ended up misreading something, you might end up learning something rather than looking like a fool.

5. Benefit of a Doubt.
If something looks wrong or insulting to your principles, read and re-read again. If you still don't understand ask for clarification before responding. If you cannot come to an understanding or common ground, please do your best to come to a peaceful resolution. Fighting on the internet is dumb and a waste of time.

6. Comment to Discuss not to Win your argument.
You may win the argument with smarter or wittier remarks but in the end you don't really achieve anything. Worst of all, you might have held yourself back learning something from someone that might have actually had something real to say, just because you were too proud to allow yourself to be

Hopefully that is everything.

Point is Peaceful is the name of the game.

Thank you for reading this far.
Reply

You can no longer comment on this thread as it was closed due to no activity for a month.

Devious Comments

:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Justice is blind, Ignorance is all-seeing.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
That is awesome! :D

That should be a quote.

I think I'll remember that quote for the rest of me life. ^____^

Thank you.
Reply
:iconbrownboxstudio:
BrownBoxStudio Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
I think you might be rewarded from doing at least one of two thing.

1. Have you even tried asking yourself, when your in a weird situation where your feeling your ignorance has made you unrelated, "What could I be doing to make this situation better?"

2. Have you thought of sharing with those who you see ignorance in and explaining to them?

Ignorance can hold us back and your post makes me feel that your at the stage of understanding that you were ignorant and now that you are not you don't understand what to do with that knowledge. I don't think it is that you know to much but it is that you might not know what to do with all that knowledge. I think it could help you to spend time looking at why your doing what your currently doing.

Instead of asking yourself, "Why do I feel this way?" go ahead and ask yourself, "What doors and possibilities has this new thinking opened up for me?", "What can I do with this new knowledge?". Maybe your life will be headed in a new direction due to your change in thinking? Only you can decide that one.

One final thought, instead of focusing on all of the things that you might not enjoy now because of your new thinking why not focus on all of the positive effects of this new thought process? I feel you have opened up a world of possibilities for yourself but I wouldn't want you to weigh yourself down with negative side of things because in the end the negatives are not what matter and it is the positives that can get you moving forward.
Reply
:iconbenkeart:
BenkeArt Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Student Traditional Artist
I understand what you mean. You have an interesting way of thinking. I think our humans have too short life for to know all about universe, at least for one single human. However, all the knowledge accumulated we have now seem to be a mere base. Maybe if all of us work for the same objective, thinking like a unity, like specie and not like an isolated being, we can reach a reason to be here.
Well, personally I try to reduce my ignorance through reading books, studying science and art. I know I can't be perfect, but if I can at least collaborate for human society with any study, any effort of thinking I will be more satisfied than I would have a normal life toward my greed.
This is my opinion. Thank you for read my reply!
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013  Professional General Artist
Thank you for sharing :)

Life is too short that's for sure, I wish that people are able to work together.

I think, if people can start learning to change their negative thoughts and learn to keep positive ones in it's place. Not just selfish positive thoughts, but thoughts that are geared on improving human relations. If that happens the world will become a better place naturally.

Of course there is no such thing as a utopia, but is it really impossible to happen? I think it's only impossible because the greater majority of people don't believe it's possible. So if they think like that, it's no surprise that it is.

I believe it is possible :) people just need a reason to believe in it.
Reply
:iconnarutokunobessed:
narutokunobessed Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013  Student General Artist
This is not a religious debate. It is more of a philosophical one. I am a strong believer in the desire to know everything, however I also do not believe I will ever get to know everything.

Im sorry, but does it just say philosophy forums, or that its philosophy and religion.


And argue and dicussion can mean about the same thing.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013  Professional General Artist
Well, you misunderstand me then.

(The following definitions are by my personal definition.)

Arguing to me = A conversation that goes nowhere, where one and/or the other is speaking only to "MAKE" the other listen but nobody is listening. In other words, a waste of time. That what I meant by arguement.

Discussion to me = A conversation where one says one thing the other listens and the other says a response then the other listens. An understanding is created between the parties involved in 'said discussion' and everyone gets to learn something new. Which hopefully ends up re-enforcing what they originally believed in or demolishing old views to replace it with new and fresh sets of beliefs.

(The Following are by websters definition)

Arguing - Aimed to "persuade" someone to share one's view. (So that means the goal is to get the other to agree with you)

Discussion - Aimed for consideration or examination by comment, response, etc., especially to explore solutions. (So that means the goal is to come to an answer "together".)

I think discussion is better, simply because it doesn't aim to force one's beliefs down another's throat. Although an argument if handled well can be positive, it can get nasty when you aren't able to get the other to agree with you. So if you enter into a discussion without expecting to convince the other to agree with you but instead allow the person to come to their own decision, it typically ends positively.

Your statement, "And argue and dicussion can mean about the same thing." is about right, but if the two words mean exactly the same thing, they wouldn't need to be coined in the first place. The context is different, so therefore there is a reason why two different words are needed because each represents a purpose for different situations, even though they have similar meanings. (mouthful... >___>)

You began this conversation with a topic that is outside the subject of this thread, but because I'm more interested discussion, I will answer your questions as respectful as possible. So I would hope you would do the same for me.

So now that I answered one, I will now answer the other. I'm sure I haven't broken any rules when I said that I wanted to make a Philosophical one. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you are informing me that I'm stepping off the rules, so I read the rules over and it doesn't say that I'm not allowed to choose which side I'd like to have a discussion about in a tread called "Philosophy and Religion".

However I'm not a bigot. So if you want to make a religious debate I will gladly have a discussion with you, but if you do or say anything that starts to turn it into an ugly argument, I'm afraid that I will have to end it.

I don't have the energy or attention span long enough to maintain a heated argument. (I really don't) So on that note; so that we don't end up wasting time each others time starting one. I'll save you the trouble and let you know in advance that, "Whatever you argue against me in the future I accept and agree with everything you are going to say, that you are smarter than me and you definitely are right no matter what I say or do. Even when I try my best to turn it back to a peaceful discussion."

So hopefully you understand that I'm peaceful. :)
Reply
:iconironhold:
Ironhold Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
For the bit about learning -

There's a difference between "learning" and "applying what one has learned to practice in the real world."

It does no good for a person to sit and "learn" if all they do each day is sit.

Speaking as someone who's been through academia (I have an MBA), I'd rather keep company with an "uneducated" man that is possessed of desire and common sense than an "educated" man who is too busy holding his nose up at the world to do anything about it.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
Do you really learn if you all you do is study and sit all day? If you do not apply what you know, are you really learning?

I know that right now I'm unable to do much about the things I'd like to see happen in this world, but I'm still trying to figure out how I can be useful for this world before I die.

I agree that I would much rather company an uneducated man than a stuck up, because one can be uneducated but not ignorant and visa versa another can be educated but still ignorant.

I know a lot of the things I said makes me sound arrogant and stuck up, but I really mean to correct this. I don't believe I'm being arrogant, just having a thought doesn't make someone arrogant. It's just introspective thoughts that concern me (A LOT). I think I would be arrogant if I believed that I'm more enlightened than everyone in this whole world. In fact I believe the opposite. I truly believe that I have so much to learn before I'm ready to face the world with my concerns, but what I'm trying to find out is, how do I go about achieving this?

Is it arrogance that I want to help the world because I'm concerned about it? I mean even I ask myself that question every single day of my life, who the hell do I think I am that I want to help encourage new ways of positive thinking to people of earth? I'm not Ghandi, but I think it's irresponsible to see an elephant in the room and choose to ignore it.

I don't actually believe that everyone I meet are ignorant. I know people are deeper than the surface they present themselves and even sometimes they really aren't as bad as you perceived them. It's just that at that time and at that confrontation the people involved are the ones who act ignorant and bigotted because of a misunderstanding. I don't even believe that the people I end up having an argument with are ignorant. I don't confuse the results of an interaction with who they are as a whole, but I do think that it could have ended differently. It could have been more peaceful, and it could have ended with both people learning something and bettering themselves, or at least I wish it would end that way...

That is the tragedy that troubles me.

I've seen so many things in this world that troubles me greatly, hate, violence, bigotry, greed, fear mongers... the list goes on... these are my definitions of what stirs the pot of ignorance. I'd like to contribute to this world the idea of believing that the goal of ending most of it is possible. I'm not naive to believe that these things will permanently go away (for now), but what's the harm in trying right? The problem is that most people believe that it's impossible to make these things go away, but isn't that the problem?

They "BELIEVE" it is "IMPOSSIBLE" these keywords are soooo important, I truly believe this, but I opened this thread because, how better to challenge those thoughts than to throw it into the lions den of Deviantart, right? :D I might learn something new that supports my thoughts, or even better I might learn something that changes the way I think. This is my process of learning, and I don't just sit down and do nothing. I plan a lot of this everyday, and I really want to do something for the world. Just not yet because I'm just not ready. :) (I mean look at me from my posts, the world will EAT ME ALIVE. Hahaha!)

So I leave you with this thought:

"If people keep thinking that it's impossible, do you think these things will ever go away?" However flip that thought and say, "What would happen if most of humanity (if not everyone) believes that they can contribute to help create the enviroment necessary to allow for the possibility of it actually going away?" and final thought is, they don't stop at believing, they actually act upon that dream and then maybe some day, at some future, it will happen.

Anyway, I ramble too much... I try not to but it's hard to compress everything I want to say in a few words. Especially when I'm so passionate about it. I hope I was clear and I didn't offend you. I really hate conflicts and I always try to talk in a manner that doesn't invite it. (Hopefully...)
Reply
:iconironhold:
Ironhold Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013
You presume that only certain people can ever do anything, correct?

If so, then you really ought to go and take a look around.

Everyone can do something to make the world a better place, even if it's just in their own little circle.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013  Professional General Artist
Actually that isn't what I meant, I meant that people are all capable of great things. It's just that people limit themselves by telling themselves that things cannot be changed because they are small and insignificant.

Imagine what the future would be like if people took action upon the things they find wrong about the world and actually tried to work together with others for the shared goal of making it a better place for all.

Of course it's a utopian paradox, because you cannot have good without the bad... but what's the harm in trying to work together to make the future a better place?

I know that it would make me happier if I found a small community where I can make a difference in a small scale, but sadly my Bi-Polar makes me ambitious. I want to do my best to take my place in humanity to become a fine example (Of course I don't know what that is but I'd rather try and fail than to not try at all).

I know I talk too much, I apologise for getting too passionate. I know that it can get tiring, I just hope that even for a little bit I was able to give you positive things to think about and maybe even ponder on the type of person you wish to become before your inevitable end (Whenever that may be and may it be that you have a long and happy life). Then at least I didn't waste your time. :)
Reply
:iconlifh:
Lifh Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
Scientifically, there IS such a thing as "knowing too much" because the brain can only take in and process so much information before it dumps old information until it just stops. I thought that was common knowledge, but apparently, I was wrong.

It depends on the individual, honestly. If the individual is a hard-core bible-thumper, then despite all evidence, they will not accept evolution. The only limit is the limit you make, except for what I said above, when your brain literally takes in too much information to handle.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
I know that the most languages one person ever learned was 68. I could be wrong, but I think that is amazing. :D

I knew that it was possible to learn so much that your brain cannot contain it all. So what it tends to do is drop knowledge that is used the least. I think this process is called extinction. Something I could also be wrong, but it's something I remembered from the top of my head.

What I meant about knowing too much is, in situations where your knowledge gets you into trouble. Like people get upset because what you talk about goes against what they believe. Problem is that I always tell people that this is something I learned and only wanted to share with people who are willing to listen. The conflict I experience is that I get people who call me stupid for believing in what I said, but that is completely wrong. I don't automatically accept that everything I know is a fact... but something that I learned and currently hold as facinating until someone tells me something new that changes that way of thinking. Then I research on what they said and correct my outdated thinking.

I love to learn new things... the problem is, that sometimes I get into trouble because I share with some people what I know and they get vicious... T____T So I started to wonder what's the point of knowledge if I get into trouble for it. Of course my thirst is still stronger than my worries... so I guess I'm like a guinea pig that doesn't learn no matter how many times I get zapped. Haha :D

I could get killed one day because of my inability to know when my knowledge is necessary/warrented or not. Which is why I started this thread. I don't want to die because of people who wish to stay ignorant or bigotted...

Anyway... I hope my rabblings made sense, I worry a lot now a days whether or not I am capable of conveying the thoughts in my head. That could be a reason for people misunderstanding me. :)

You mentioned in your comment about bible thumpers, I avoid those people like the PLAGUE! :D Unless they are willing to have a constructive philosophical discussion. I'm always open to those. ^____^
Reply
:iconlifh:
Lifh Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
That is amazing! But honestly, how pratical is knowing 68 languages? Can that person even speak it all fluently? Because if you 68 words, each one in a different language, then technically you can speak 68 languages.

It depends on the knowledge and the person. Since your reply is very cryptic, I can not have an opinion for sure, because I'll no idea what I'll be talking about.

But I do want to know what kind people you know and friends you have that would kill you over something so trivial? 0_o

I don't mind people being... um... assertive with their religion, that is trying to convert other people to their way of thinking. Its when those people are downright hateful and stupid is when I get pissed off.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
I know right? :D I think the person can speak all 68 fluently, but don't underestimate the power of the brain. People don't always get a chance to push the limits of how much their brain can take. However it could be 68 languages that are near similar to each other. So maybe he's cheating ahaha, who knows.

I have to apologise for not being able to explain myself better, I will try though. I think it's cryptic because I have ADHD... so I tend to have 5-10 things whizzing in my head and that is at the least. So trying to stay on topic is challenging for me.

Anyway, here are the points I'll try my best to summarize it:

I tend to get into trouble because of the knowledge I share with others. I'm not saying this is always, but it is a significant enough amount that it bothers me. Sadly the people I'm talking about are mostly my family (Aunties and Uncles) and a lot of the things they know are outdated and old school. So I get into a lot of trouble when I try to talk with them about the things they are trying to force me to believe in. I don't want to become the type of person that ignores family just because I find it hard to talk with them, problem is that it really IS HARD to talk "WITH" them. Sigh...

What I meant by it killing me one day is a little darker than how I said it. My hidden agenda there is that it might be I that kills myself, but I'm not a quitter and I will never take my own life. So in the end it might be stress that kills me. Irony is beautiful and poetic, such is the philosophy of life. :)

----


About the last paragraph you wrote, you are SO spot on about what I'm talking about. I love to talk to people and listen to the things they believe in and swear by, but that's where it stops for me. I want to learn about them and what they know, but I don't want to BECOME them. There is no point to life if all I'm going to do is copy the way someone else lives.

So that is what I meant by knowing too much... I have too much knowledge about many things that I'm not easy to fool. If you tell me about something I never knew about, I would accept what you said, but I would research it first and learn more about it, before I come to a conclusion that what you said is valid.

Maybe that is what gets me into trouble... because when someone tells me something, my natural stance is to think that you are are neither right or wrong until I've confirmed it myself through research so I can come to my own educated conclusion. Maybe my family don't like it when I don't accept what they say as truth as immediately as they wish I should... >____<

I think I've found my answer... the only thing to do now is to talk to them about it. Hopefully I don't get into trouble again... Conflict is so tiring... :P
Reply
:iconlifh:
Lifh Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2013
WOW! You come up with really long replies. *Gets Popcorn* Okay, now get this essay started! >:P

I have schizophrenia. :)

It sounds to me like those family members are closed-minded. They believe that their in the right no matter what, and since their older then you, I assume, then they believe they don't have to listen to you or take you seriously.

I guess in order for relationships (of any kind) to work, then you need to be able to talk without one of you being rude and trying to block the other out. Personally, the fact that somebody had some genetic code that's vaguely similar to mine doesn't not warrant actually having a relationship with them. For one, their people and most of the time they always have controverting likes and dislike and ideas and philosophical beliefs that are different then yours or most of the time is directly the opposite of yours. Its difficult to have a relationship with such a person in the first place, let alone when that person is very rude and treats you and your words like worthless piece's of crap.

N
O
B
O
D
Y

has the right to force you to believe in anything! If somebody is trying to FORCE their beliefs on you with their power over you by simply being older, then you need to break your relationship off with them or tell them that NOBODY has the right to tell you what to believe in. You are YOUR OWN MIND, and you are a HUMAN BEING. You have rights just as much rights as everybody else. If you want to be a Satanist then you have a full right to be, no matter how young, and NO ONE has the right to tell you otherwise.

My father talks about people who commit suicide in the same way you do. As pathetic people who are weak and are better off dead because their quitters. That's just not true. People who commit suicide are just people who feel like there is no other way out from an inescapable suffering in their life. And perhaps if they feel their suffering is that bad that they feel the need to end their lives, then how wrong can they be? They were people who needed help but didn't get it.

There is no such thing as being to knowledgeable. However, there is a such a thing as being too closed-minded. Whoever is putting these ideas in your head is WRONG. For one, NOBODY should take whatever some else says as the truth and nothing as the truth. Like I said before, you ARE NOT a mindless drone! You have the right to think for yourself. Its obvious that these people have NO respect for you!

If you get in "Trouble" as in they try to restrict your rights, perhaps it is time to end your relationship? I would never continue being around people who treated me with such arrogance and disrespect.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Professional General Artist
Sorry for the long replies I need to learn to control that. ADHD makes it hard to keep on track of things I want to say.

Wow, schizophrenia is not good... I have Bi-Polar and ADHD, I don`t enjoy them at all, but I don`t think I would like schizophrenia very much. I hope medication is able to help you as it does for my disabilities.

But you are right, no one has the right to tell me how to live my life or how to think. Problem is that I`ve been brought up to respect my elders and it`s more of a habit for me that I cannot kick off easily. Mind you I do speak my mind while still trying my best to be peaceful, but you seem to have a good Idea on the kind of people they are from my descriptions... so, it`s pointless...

Regarding suicide, I apologise for being unclear I do not blame people for taking actions on their own lives. It really is their choice and I do not think they are weak or pathetic. It`s just something only pertaining to me. The reason for why I said I would never kill myself is that I perceive it as quitting. However that was directed at me because I have goals and dreams that I must accomplish no matter what. So killing myself would on that note would make me a quitter.

However I think people who commit suicide without having a clear mind is not fair. I accept that people who have a clear mind is okay to make that decision because it truly was theirs to make. I don't think a severely depressed person has the right mind set to make such a drastic action because if they didn't have an affected mind, they might have made different choices. Then again that's my opinion, only because I know what it's like to be severly depressed. Bi-Polar helps make this very easy... so on normal circumstances I don't even think of suicide as an option.

Damn I wrote too much again... sigh... anyway thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me. I will always be willing to talk with you if you have anything to ask me. I will always listen (in this case... read. :))
Reply
:iconmercury-crowe:
Mercury-Crowe Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional Artisan Crafter
I think it is possible to know to much- in that you can understand factors and consequences of your actions that make that action harder to take. Knowing all sides can make a decision much harder.

Having limited information can make those things easier.

I tend to see all sides of an issue, and it's always a problem. You wind up never feeling like you're really doing any true good as there is always a bad side.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
Wow, that is exactly how I feel all the time. Sometimes I end up knowing too much about something that someone else isn't knowledgable about and knowledge is power. I truly believe this.

Sometimes I have to make fast decisions on how to interact with someone because I don't know how they will take my opinion on something. They might appreciate it, but they could also think that you're a know-it-all arrogant prick... :P problem is to know when it's okay to use your knowledge and when it's better to hold back, because no one likes a know-it-all and especially someone who makes them feel dumb for not knowing what you know.

Problem is that I tend to get so excited when I talk to someone that I'm very knowledgable in and I blabber on in my happy world of what I know, but some people get offended if it goes against what they think... but I was so happy to talk about something that I thought was exciting... I wasn't trying to go against their beliefs, I was trying to share what I know... I think that is was upsets me a lot...

I feel that I get hated on or misunderstood a lot when my intentions are typically opposite of what they hated me for... T___T
Reply
:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
simply because you have adjectified yourself with ideologies that are mistakenly taken as positive in certain closed circiles doesnt mean that anyone else having a different way of expressing themselves have to be less smarter. it also doesnt mean that once you automatically adhere yourself to this philosophy you are suddenly one of them or somehow better or more open minded than the people that are out of the circle. one can be einstein and still be a bigot. except that his work will result in countless political conspiricies instead of research, but one cant criticize the context of mental data produced by looking at the negative result, coming from einstein being morally positive while his research having been resulted in being misused to be an ultimate negativity.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
Quite right, I understand very well about the
conundrum of the things I've said in this post.

I hate ignorance, so much that it affects me
a lot, but it could be that it is I that is
ignorant and not the person who I think is
ignorant. So I try my best to smile and listen
to people even if I start to think they are
completely nuts. It does become circular when
I realize that we are just misunderstanding
each other. At that point I really want to
understand that person but I also really want
that person to understand me. It's my OCD. The
moment I feel the need for something, it gets
very hard to stay calm. I hide it well though
because I hate conflict more than ignorance.

Probably the biggest tragedy in my opinion is
that if I am having a discussion with someone
and what we say to each other is lost due to
miscommunication. I find it worse when it is
on the internet because people don't see when
you are being ACTUALLY rude or you're only just
trying to say something neutrally. (I mean this
in the tones of voices and facial recognitions.)
Of course it's different if the person is being
rude with obvious keys such as: "$^#& You you
*&^hole!" AHAHA! Then at that time I tell them
the conversation is over if no matter how I
respond to them, no matter how respectful I react,
they still throw insults at me. OMG JUST THINKING
OF IT BURNS ME UP!!! >____< ahaha...

(okay I'm calm...) :D

Most internet conflicts could have been avoided
people understood that their annoyances, or
reactions to a post was only due to the fact that
they are confronting a cold computer that is
without emotion, and not a human that tried to
express themselves. I truly believe if people
tried their best not to see the negative in things
people say, off and on the internet, the world
would become just that little bit better.

I always try my best to retranslate what I hear
and repeat it in my head over and over again the
things people say that piss me off because, what
if it's because I misunderstood what they said?
If I couldn't understand still, I politely ask
for them to clarify some more. If they really are
just being bigotted or just plain assholish, then
I say goodbye and turn around. Problem is, I
cannot hold my internal storm well enough that
it doesn't hurt me.

That is my problem I really want to change. That
hatred that causes me to hate and be hateful and fall
into spiral reasoning. I hate myself so much when that
happens... >____<

:) Hopefully I explained what I said as clearly as
possible. Like I said, I do hate conflict and I tend
to avoid them as much as possible by redirection. If
that doesn't work no matter how hard I try. I'll
just politely step back and walk away.
Reply
:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
Quite right, I understand very well about the
conundrum of the things I've said in this post.

I hate ignorance, so much that it affects me
a lot, but it could be that it is I that is
ignorant and not the person who I think is
ignorant. So I try my best to smile and listen
to people even if I start to think they are
completely nuts. It does become circular when
I realize that we are just misunderstanding
each other. At that point I really want to
understand that person but I also really want
that person to understand me. It's my OCD. The
moment I feel the need for something, it gets
very hard to stay calm. I hide it well though
because I hate conflict more than ignorance.


Ah I see how that can be a problem. The other problem is that you like conversing I guess. Most people don't, they see it as a requirement to survive or like a kind of response that they feel obligated to feel responsible for, and they express it in different ways since they want to stay inside the walls of legitimate politeness. This lack of integrity probably throws you off and you can't put your finger on it.

Probably the biggest tragedy in my opinion is
that if I am having a discussion with someone
and what we say to each other is lost due to
miscommunication.


I understand that pretty well haha.

I find it worse when it is
on the internet because people don't see when
you are being ACTUALLY rude or you're only just
trying to say something neutrally. (I mean this
in the tones of voices and facial recognitions.)
Of course it's different if the person is being
rude with obvious keys such as: "$^#& You you
*&^hole!" AHAHA! Then at that time I tell them
the conversation is over if no matter how I
respond to them, no matter how respectful I react,
they still throw insults at me. OMG JUST THINKING
OF IT BURNS ME UP!!! >____< ahaha...


Yeah.. Even when someone uses cursing language it feels much worse trough the internet since, well, a lot of factors, as you have said the lack of expressions and tone being the number one. Also due to those other factors people feel masked and invulnurable on the internet and want to express their true selves without the hinderence of social rules and moral expectations and laws. But hatred harms the owner first, so their aggression turns into continued abuse where it would become physical or vocal aggression in reality.

(okay I'm calm...) :D

Most internet conflicts could have been avoided
people understood that their annoyances, or
reactions to a post was only due to the fact that
they are confronting a cold computer that is
without emotion, and not a human that tried to
express themselves. I truly believe if people
tried their best not to see the negative in things
people say, off and on the internet, the world
would become just that little bit better.

I always try my best to retranslate what I hear
and repeat it in my head over and over again the
things people say that piss me off because, what
if it's because I misunderstood what they said?
If I couldn't understand still, I politely ask
for them to clarify some more. If they really are
just being bigotted or just plain assholish, then
I say goodbye and turn around. Problem is, I
cannot hold my internal storm well enough that
it doesn't hurt me.</strong>

Exactly. They don't even see the computer, its a kind of text that materializes their negative emotions that they see and it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation rather than communicating in a hindered way. Probably negative things are easy to pick out from a text on the internet where it would go unnoticed or forgiven in a face-to-face talk.

That's a nice thing you do but there's no way to diminish the internal storm so I can't advice you to "better let it out on the spot" since there's no such thing like that on the internet.

Also the points and arguments on the internet are written. Treating them as if they are said would be really wrong. You agree with something written or you don't agree, you can write why you don't agree if a response is possible, but turning it into a face-to-face conflict is not good. The eternal question between textualism and verbalism. You can't mix the two..

That is my problem I really want to change. That
hatred that causes me to hate and be hateful and fall
into spiral reasoning. I hate myself so much when that
happens... >____<


Don't change yourself because of other people. Especially on the internet. Either stop doing it or find a certain closed community on the internet that are like-minded with you on this subject. There are places like that.

:) Hopefully I explained what I said as clearly as
possible. Like I said, I do hate conflict and I tend
to avoid them as much as possible by redirection. If
that doesn't work no matter how hard I try. I'll
just politely step back and walk away.


You did lol. You even explained my problems and make me think on them. I prejudicely stepped in for an empty intellectual-sounding troll but it wasn't deserved by you so sorry haha. Actually I will do that - find some research or whatever based community to find people to discuss, even if they're like "we know everything worm!" style. That's better than "you know better than me, I feel inferior but I won't let you get away with it!"-based insults.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
:iconmother-of-god-plz:
Your style of replying to a long post was GENIUS!!! :D I think I might do that from now on! I didn't misunderstand a single thing you typed and I didn't even find the need to re-read any part.

Ah I see how that can be a problem. The other problem is that you like conversing I guess. Most people don't, they see it as a requirement to survive or like a kind of response that they feel obligated to feel responsible for, and they express it in different ways since they want to stay inside the walls of legitimate politeness. This lack of integrity probably throws you off and you can't put your finger on it.

I suppose not a lot of people like to talk on the internet, but I think it's because of the ingrained "net" culture. People are afraid of looking dumb or afraid of encountering someone who is dumb so they end up choosing not to respond. You are spot on though, I love to conversate with all types of people. For what I want to do in this world, I think it's a highly valuable skill to be able to reduce conflict created due to cultural differences. However you are absolutely right about how it could throw me off when someone doesn't even bother to try see it my way, when I try so hard to view it their way. Of course at that point I know it's not their obligation and it doesn't make them impolite to choose not to see it my way. (Although it doesn't stop me from experiencing that oh-so-familiar anger, which I am forced to restrain.)

Exactly. They don't even see the computer, its a kind of text that materializes their negative emotions that they see and it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation rather than communicating in a hindered way. Probably negative things are easy to pick out from a text on the internet where it would go unnoticed or forgiven in a face-to-face talk.

Oh I loved what you said here: "...it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation..." that is SO true. I discovered this about myself a few years back and I realized that, a lot of the times, it wasn't the person on the other side of the computer that I was arguing with, but a self destructive confrontation against my own self. And all because I misunderstood something someone said that I ended up getting angry at what I thought they said when actually it wasn't what they said at all. So who was I really fighting against? The person? or myself?

I'd say it was my self image and respect I was destroying when I realized what I idiot I made myself to be.

Don't change yourself because of other people. Especially on the internet. Either stop doing it or find a certain closed community on the internet that are like-minded with you on this subject. There are places like that.

That was probably the best advice I've heard in a long time. However, I'm not doing this for other people and especially not for the internet. I'm doing this to find the self I believe is who I wish to be. I know that the saying is be yourself, but I always felt there was something wrong with that statement. So I changed it to, "Be yourself but be the best of who you are and what you can be." One day, I want to lie down on my death bed thinking, I did the best I could with what I had and became the best person I could ever be. I should be proud and satisfied.

Thing is, it would be good to find like-minded people, but I fear that we might end up just always agreeing with each other that in the end we don't really learn anything because there was no one there to challenge the way we thought. I don't want to become arrogant, not saying that I will, but it might happen... So maybe I should find them, but have them in small doses Hahaha :D

You did lol. You even explained my problems and make me think on them. I prejudicely stepped in for an empty intellectual-sounding troll but it wasn't deserved by you so sorry haha. Actually I will do that - find some research or whatever based community to find people to discuss, even if they're like "we know everything worm!" style. That's better than "you know better than me, I feel inferior but I won't let you get away with it!"-based insults.

I think this learning experience was mutual. :) I don't know to what value you learned from me (I hope it is something that you find valuable) but I definitely feel that I learned a lot from this conversation with you.

I'm not really surprised that you thought I was being a troll. Even I was afraid of pressing the submit button after I finished writing this thread. I could see how it could be view negatively, but I must always remember to give people the benefit of the doubt that it wouldn't always be received negatively. If people trash talk me, that's just the way things works sometimes. All I can do is try to redirect what they thought and do my best to uphold my principles of calm and peaceful handling in tough situations. If I become hateful or violent with my words, then that means that I'm a failure and I learned nothing, therefore losing the right to talk (self-applied right). Because anything else I would say would contradict me and my philosophy of life, turning me into the thing I hate the most:

A bigotted and ignoramus baffoon. :D

Not words you hear everyday huh? hehehe
Reply
:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2013
Your style of replying to a long post was GENIUS!!! :D I think I might do that from now on! I didn't misunderstand a single thing you typed and I didn't even find the need to re-read any part.

Haha thanks. Just easier for the eye candy. Sorry for the late reply btw, I was just uhm, spending my energy to a more negative discussion. Ironic right?

I suppose not a lot of people like to talk on the internet, but I think it's because of the ingrained "net" culture. People are afraid of looking dumb or afraid of encountering someone who is dumb so they end up choosing not to respond. You are spot on though, I love to conversate with all types of people. For what I want to do in this world, I think it's a highly valuable skill to be able to reduce conflict created due to cultural differences. However you are absolutely right about how it could throw me off when someone doesn't even bother to try see it my way, when I try so hard to view it their way. Of course at that point I know it's not their obligation and it doesn't make them impolite to choose not to see it my way. (Although it doesn't stop me from experiencing that oh-so-familiar anger, which I am forced to restrain.)

Yeah it's actually weird that people indeed want to be faceless on the net but than in other times want to be known by everybody for their smartness. Actually recently I noticed that people respect intelligence or what passes as intelligence on a whim regardless of their level of thought, morals or education. Also a funny thing.

You're pretty much on a right way to think that quality discussion ends conflicts. Actually this works best between literative people, ie intellectuals. When they do respect the constants that they have both grown up with only slightly touching them when necesary, they do come to an understanding in the end, or at least a mutual exchange of disagreement rather than mis-understanding. I used to hate literal criticism but only for this concept I started to respect it.

It is really not impolite for them to see it in their way, but that's different than just cursing at somebody for it. Cursing in a discussion usually proves fallacy. But anger is a natural feeling to experience, you just get stuck because our genes are not well adapted to let anger out trough text typing. Maybe having a punchbag next to the pc would help. I mean it's actually wrong to be angry over an internet discussion but it happens, people cant help it, me included.

Oh I loved what you said here: "...it turns more into a kind of alienated self-confrontation..." that is SO true. I discovered this about myself a few years back and I realized that, a lot of the times, it wasn't the person on the other side of the computer that I was arguing with, but a self destructive confrontation against my own self. And all because I misunderstood something someone said that I ended up getting angry at what I thought they said when actually it wasn't what they said at all. So who was I really fighting against? The person? or myself?

I'd say it was my self image and respect I was destroying when I realized what I idiot I made myself to be.


Well at least you have seen yourself. You can only see the parts of yourself when they are distanced from you. So that means what you criticized about yourself was already pretty much externalized by your true feelings. Most people fail this and just go on being upset over the internet. Bad news is that government agents and police etc are also in this group that gets overly upset lol.

That was probably the best advice I've heard in a long time. However, I'm not doing this for other people and especially not for the internet. I'm doing this to find the self I believe is who I wish to be. I know that the saying is be yourself, but I always felt there was something wrong with that statement. So I changed it to, "Be yourself but be the best of who you are and what you can be." One day, I want to lie down on my death bed thinking, I did the best I could with what I had and became the best person I could ever be. I should be proud and satisfied.

Thanks for all the kind words :) Well that's actually the best thing to do. Change for your self. For example we all whine about how India changed from a simple apperance of British, but actually we are disregarding the mimic factor that has developed in India and that currently British\Indian academicians and intellectuals being far more smarter than both British and Indian counterparts. I am giving this example as to show that changing for yourself in the effect of other people will put you in the advantage of those other people as long as you have the right mindset.

Thing is, it would be good to find like-minded people, but I fear that we might end up just always agreeing with each other that in the end we don't really learn anything because there was no one there to challenge the way we thought. I don't want to become arrogant, not saying that I will, but it might happen... So maybe I should find them, but have them in small doses Hahaha :D

Well that does happen :D Best enviroment is the place where you are either honestly and blatantly enemies with your opponents or just very close friends that are only sharing information with each other. Believe me honest enemies are more understanding than anti-critics from your own species.

I think this learning experience was mutual. :) I don't know to what value you learned from me (I hope it is something that you find valuable) but I definitely feel that I learned a lot from this conversation with you.

That's nice. See? We didn't even have to participate in a mutal first-line family member abuse investiagtions in order to make each other learn something.

I'm not really surprised that you thought I was being a troll. Even I was afraid of pressing the submit button after I finished writing this thread. I could see how it could be view negatively, but I must always remember to give people the benefit of the doubt that it wouldn't always be received negatively. If people trash talk me, that's just the way things works sometimes. All I can do is try to redirect what they thought and do my best to uphold my principles of calm and peaceful handling in tough situations. If I become hateful or violent with my words, then that means that I'm a failure and I learned nothing, therefore losing the right to talk (self-applied right). Because anything else I would say would contradict me and my philosophy of life, turning me into the thing I hate the most:

A bigotted and ignoramus baffoon. :D


Well thats how things are. You are right to think this way. I myself didn't even doubt before replying you with an anti-troll-troll to your post :p So you win on the grounds of self-awareness.

Not words you hear everyday huh? hehehe

Not really haha.

Now let me try to answer briefly to the first parts of your post.

1. Is there a God?

Actually I have argued this on many grounds. The fact is that even a materialist person has to accept the existance of God, on social and juridical terms. Actually God is more provable on a social aspect than a spiritual one. But spirituality is not proof-obsessed to begin with. Anyway let me try to quote you from a computer game to answer lol:

Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me. We long for a caring Universe which will save us from our childish mistakes, and in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary we will pin all our hopes on the slimmest of doubts. God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist.

Academician Prokhor Zakharov


I know how crap it is to quote from a game but afterall the author has a good point. Cant help it :p

But you see all this argument is obsessed around the idea that human has to be convinced in order to prove God. Even though that it isn't the case with almost most of the beliefs in the world. Many of them will easily tell you that God doesn't need the aproval of people to exist or do anything, but many like to convince the other side in order to comance with the discussion which many of them also enjoy to make.

2. Will there ever be unity in humanity?

How do you define unity? Does it have to be long-lasting? Well I ask because I want to point out that there were times when there was unity in humanity. Like in helenistic Macedonia, Antique Persia or the fabled Celts as in unity in the "known world" of their times, but these all came with sword and militaristic operation. There were also the minor unities like the Carthige, the Alexandria times, Abbasi Kalihpdom times, Sytchia, Sarmatia, golden age of Al Andulus etc. But these have all been short lived no matter how their effects echoed in the future generations. I do believe that the same will repeat itself several times in future history but I also tend to believe that ALL of humanity will once unite altogether.

Why do I believe that? Because I observed that all the "secret organizations" illumunatis, half-demons, super-rich people, elders etc that we have replaced with the deeper government in our world of fantastic inventions, are actually nothing but the deprived interpretations of thought-upon human nature. Everything in history that has developed or devolved can be explained by the un-surpassed hegemony of human nature. So what is human nature? It tends to strike for perfection or at least modest perfection, so I come to the natural conclusion that if this is the constant rulership in human history, than human history has to come to an agreement at one point.

3. Is there even a meaning to life?

This is the question with the longest reply but without answer. Actually the search for meaning of life directs everything in a humans life. Therefore a philosophy that plays trough this culvar will always have major effects. I personally believe that life is just a shadow of afterlife. So the point is to make the afterlife.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Professional General Artist
Wow, that has to be the best comment I've ever receieved in my entire life. :D ahahaha

Thank you so much for taking the time to trade thoughts with me. It's hard to find calm and patience now a days and I learned so much from just one person.

If you ever feel the need to ask a random question, feel free to ask me. :)

I'm always open to a conversation.
Reply
:iconsiegeonthorstadt:
siegeonthorstadt Featured By Owner Feb 9, 2013
Cool. Just make threads :)
Reply
:iconsiantjudas:
siantjudas Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013   Digital Artist
It's a public forum and you don't make the rules.

Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
It's not rules, it's only something people can follow to avoid conflict. I don't enjoy conflict.

So I placed them in hope that people try to be nice.
Reply
:iconsiantjudas:
siantjudas Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013   Digital Artist
So if it's optional, why waste the time and space, especially since your post is already so long.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
I don't think it was a waste of time and space. Sometimes you have to lay out how it is you like conversing with people. People aren't always intuitive on how others converse. Everyone is different and it would make social interactions a lot better if people were honest and respectful. I tend to be able to talk with plenty of personality types. If I encounter someone I don't understand it's because I've never encountered that kind of person before. If they expressed themselves clearer, conflicts would be greatly reduced.

I've learned from experience that no matter how much something makes sense in your mind it doesn't always translate to others. So I explain things in more detail in hopes that my intentions are clear and not misunderstood.

People that I don't understand tend to be the type who don't bother with clarity. They are either self centered, lazy, too shy, or just don't have the communicative capabilities on how to convey their thoughts. (I say tend to be, I don't assume that they are all like that. Just a personal observation.) So I do my best to talk to people on their level and not just talk how I think I should talk because I believe that people should just understand me no matter what. "If they don't understand me, then it's not my fault it's theirs." <=== many people think like that and although they have the right to live that way, I don't think it's correct to think like that.

So in short:

The reason why it's optional is because I'm not God and I do not force people to believe the way I do. Like you said, "I don't make the rules." I just like to give people the chance to be able to communicate with me, especially if they do not wish to end in an argument.

Anyway, I have to ask only because I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt that you aren't pulling my leg, but are you trolling? I'm only asking because it looks like you're interrogating me and I don't have the energy to argue with anyone.

If you aren't and you just want to have a conversation/debate then I'm always open to it. Even if it has nothing to do with what the thread I created is about.
Reply
:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
Ignorance is bliss. I saw that on a church flyer once. It's not really, though, it just means you don't know that you're being harmed.

The truth can hurt but never harm you.


Unless Lovecraft was right.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
Ignorance really is bliss... I don't miss the ignorance, but I do miss the bliss.

It's hard to know how to be happy now a days.

But sometimes the truth is important, even if it hurts, because it's only then that you are able to change.
Reply
:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
The pookie mookie is stinky.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Professional General Artist
Is this an intro to something deeper and meaningful? :D

Or is it in reference to my nationality? :P

I looked at your page and it says you're a student, a poet, and a philosopher. Three things we have in common. ^____^

Or are you a student that is a poet that is a philosopher? Or a Student who studies Philosophy in Poetry?

Here's a list of things that you could be:

Student Poet who IS a Philosopher
Student who is currently studying poetry and Philosophy
Student that is studying Poetry but is a Philosopher
Student that is a Poet that studies Philosophy
Student that is studying something else but is a professional Poet and Philosopher
Student that is studying something else but wants to be a student of Poetry and Philosophy
Student that is studying something else but wants to be a student of Poetry but is a Philosopher
Student that is studying something else but is a poet and wants to be a student of Philosophy

I could go on, but I'll stop here just incase I found what it is you are. :)

I'm glad we had this discussion. -____^
Reply
:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
No-one is deliberately ignorant.
Reply
:iconsmkiller:
Smkiller Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist
TimeHasAnEnd.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
Yes I understand this well, I think that is why I started this thread.

My question was, is this there a point where you could know too much?

This has a dual meaning. Could it be that I know too much, or is it
that I 'think' I know more than I should?

One question makes me sound modest and the other makes me sound arrogant.

I think I can be arrogant, but I really don't mean to. Which is why I
feel that I'd like to get other peoples opinions to tell me if I am right
or wrong and if I am right it's nice, but if I am wrong, I would like to
know how I can change and improve myself.

Sorry about my response earlier. You gave such an odd comment, so I thought
I'd give you an equally if not odder response ahaha. :D

Pookie Mookie? What the hell? ahaha
Reply
:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Half knowledge is as dangerous as delusion.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Professional General Artist
"Half knowledge is as dangerous as delusion."

I like that :D I see that in a lot of people. I also see that in myself, so I try my best to fill in any gaps I find when I find it.

I always do my best to learn as much of the truth as possible.

However just because I think I know the truth doesn't mean it actually is the truth, and I always accept that I could very well be wrong. Which is also why I would never challenge someone elses knowledge without learning more about what they are talking about.

Here is a quote I live by:

"What get's us into trouble is not what we don't know, but what we know for sure that just ain't so."
~Mark Twain

I'm amazed that you can read an entire comment and compress a reply into a single sentence that says a lot! :D

I think I would do well to learn from that. :) I think you interest me the most compared to the others that reply back with essays.

Anyway, I don`t know if you are uninterested by my thread. So if you aren`t, I`m won't force this subject on you any further. Just say so, :) because I can talk forever if you let me. hahaha
Reply
:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013
Eric Hovind would contest that theory.
Reply
:iconwolfyspice:
WolfySpice Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
I would say you're immature and irresponsible, yes. The important thing is you can recognise that within yourself and work on changing those thought patterns. I'd suggest regularly seeing a therapist if you'd like help with that. For everything else, there are online forums.

What ignorant behaviours are you pissed off at, exactly? ...Bigotry? Or just general innocent ignorance? 'Eh, it doesn't matter. In either case, I'd challenge preconceptions and educate; learning is far more fun than fuming, and you often learn something yourself. If they're not receptive, ignore them. You're in charge of your own happiness, and you have little control over other people's behaviours. If you can't change them, or if you dislike discussing those things with them, then I'd say simply accept it and move on. Cast them off. Don't let other people bring you down.

To the original question, no, there's no such thing as knowing too much. It can only harm someone if they become arrogant, or if you cannot handle that other people will not always immediately agree with you. For example, there's one person I know who is intelligent and knowledgeable, but is a right fucking arsehole to everyone that deserves to be belted for their arrogance. They rub everyone the wrong way and will have their head caved in later in life. Don't be that person.

Just sit back and listen, really. Better to be silent and thought the fool, yes? You don't have anything to prove; if you challenge them and they're not participating, just be confident in your own knowledge and not let others' behaviours drag you down.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Professional General Artist
Funny thing is that I actually am seeing a therapist.

The ignorant behaviors that kills me the most is definitely
bigotry. Also people who do things to hurt other people
intentionally. Like trolls. I always try my best to listen to
everything anyone says to me and keep an open mind. Because who
knows what I might learn? I always keep in mind that what I know
to be truth could very well be false. So I listen. I just wish
that more people would do the same because I've met one too many
weirdos that are hell bent on their opinions that it's like they
think they are God. Even when they obviously can no longer support
their argument, they continue to push what they believe and when
push comes to shove, they resort to violent words and insults to
the integrity of the ones who don't agree with them... OMG THAT
ANNOYS ME!!!! BLAH!!! ahaha.

Mind you, at this point, I probably have to say that I have Bipolar
Disorder. I get a lot of feelings of grandeur and over self importance
and when things go wrong I tend to blame myself a lot for it. I talk
to my therapist about this a lot, things like my desire to help people
open their minds and when I see that I can`t do most of the things I
wish to do in this world by myself I place a lot of blame on myself.
Hence a need for heavy doses of expensive anti-depressants... and ADHD
doesn't help either, because I tend to think about 5-10 things a minute.
I don't think you should try it... it's very exhasting... :)

So if I sound arrogant it's not because I mean to, but I don't
want my problems to be an excuse so I try my best to learn about
everything and anything. About the world and different cultures
and personality types so that I reduce the chances of sounding
arrogant. Even if I don't mean to, it doesn't change the fact that
I'm being arrogant. So I would love to change that side of me.

You really arranged what you said well and it was so well written.
I think I really learned a lot from what you said and I thank you
so much for taking the time to explain this to me.

My main reason for opening this thread is because one day, I`d
like to become a teacher of wisdom and enlightenment, but I cannot
do that if I feel too much self importance. If I cannot deal with
the short comings of humanity, how can I expect to teach. If you
remember what I mentioned about community, I would love to one day
become like the wize old man. :) There`s always one in a village.
I hope to become one in a future where the village is earth and I
don't want to be thanked for it. I would even do this for free,
because I don't think you can put a price on knowledge.
Bi-polar much? :D ahaha

Also when I say this I don't mean to force my wisdom on others. I
would only do this in subtle ways and try to do my best to affect
as many people who care about what I have to teach. If it helps
the world become a better place, not just for me but for others,
then my life mission is complete.

Recently (before new years to be exact... :P) I realized that one
of the things I hate the most is that when there is something some
people find wrong in this world they choose to say, "well, I'm
only one person." So they accept that the world is that way and
don't do anything to change it.

Example: I truly believe the education system is keeping our
children from becoming smarter and knowledgable. Whether they
are doing this on purpose or not I don't really care. What I
do care about is when people realize this is happening but they
choose to do nothing about it. I think nothing hurts humanity
more than people who see a problem and choose to do nothing.

Do you think this way of thinking is bad? If so, what I do you
think I should do about it? I don't want to join the ranks of
people who do nothing. I want to do something about the world
around me because it's only those who see a problem who can
affect the outcome. People who don't see it are only excused
because one cannot fix what one cannot see. So I do feel an
obligation to reach out to those who can't see, that care to
learn to see from what I know, but I still don't know how to do
this and I most definitely don't learn this from my therapist...

She tells me to relax and let go of the need to be important, but
it's not about being important. It's about knowing what is important.
Helping people to see how important the world is, I believe is very
important. Also that we need to help each other to create a better
place. Obviously I'm not really learning what I want to know from
her, but she tries her best and I appreciate her for that. However
about the last paragraph you typed, I really enjoyed what you said
there. I tend to feel heavy when I realise a person I'm talking to
isn't talking to me to converse, but to tell me how I should think
and how I should live my life without explaining to me why it is what
he/she is saying has more importance/truth compared to my argument.

Anyway... I'm rambling... Like I said... ADHD... 5-10 thoughts a minute
and that is the least. I can get up to 20 thoughts, but that's not an
actual number I counted. It's an estimate because I had to write it
down on paper for my therapist. She said I need to write all my thoughts
down and in about a year ended up with a library of journals, ahahaha

I'm not kidding about that library... I have a room almost filled with
journals... Sorry if I typed to much or made no sense. I hope I made
sense.

Thank you for your comment.
Reply
:iconwolfyspice:
WolfySpice Featured By Owner Jan 23, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
I've become adept at being succinct despite my own mind constantly racing, and I'm used to reading large texts, so no worries. I'm also personally aware of the effects of mental illness. I only wish that text had spread across my screen, rather than as a thin column...

I'm not sure about your life, but I've practically lived on the internet since I've had access to it. I don't know if it's because of that, or because of my personality, but I tend to easily ignore the trolls. Now that you're starting to understand what it is about some people that annoy you, you'll be better placed to recognise that quicker and stop yourself before you engage them. If you're lucky, they'll display their terrible personality as a warning sign so you can avoid them easier.

I don't think your way of thinking is 'bad' per se. Rather, it could be misapplied then misconstrued as such by those who might not share your way of thinking. I think, if they don't agree after you've explained it to them and the discussion isn't going anywhere... just stop, and don't take it personally. I similarly get annoyed, but you just have to learn when something is fruitless and move on. I see some people explode constantly when faced with idiocy, and although I agree with them, they do tire me out a bit.

I used to feel the same way as you, many many years ago. Once my eyes were opened and I started to see the terrible things in the world, I wanted everyone else to see them, too. I read, and read, and wrote, and wrote. I researched so much and found other people who were interested in what I was. I had correspondence with a few politicians, urged friends and family to partake in government discussion papers, and made submissions to the government on issues. So yeah, I think I have an idea of what you're feeling right now.

When I say 'used to', I just mean I still do it, but I'm less... hmm. Well, I'm more passionate than ever. I'm just less frustrated, I suppose. I can agree with what you said about it not wanting to 'be important', but rather wanting to let others know about what is important. But, from my experience, I don't think you need to try too hard. You can exhaust yourself. But, the thing I've found is, it's often not who you're talking to. It's about who else is listening, the audience you don't notice. You might eventually realise the person you're talking to is just trolling; you might end the discussion because it's fruitless; or you might end up having an interesting discussion.

But.

That person is not the only person. For everyone who is reading our replies to each other, most of them... honestly? They're probably ignoring us because we're not spitting soundbites or memes. But there are also people who are reading this who we might never know about, who are actually interested in what we're saying. They might even be in a similar position. From experience, I know of a few people that others and I have had an influence on in changing their opinions and getting them interested. I think, in an average day, I must also read at least a thousand different thoughts per day. Possible a couple or few thousand. But I don't respond to them... as do most people. They're the silent audience, who are either laughing at us, ignoring us, or are finding it interesting and pondering it themselves.

I think in the end, I don't think it should be a matter of 'needing' to be heard. Rather, it should be a matter of saying it anyway, and to not be afraid if a discussion goes nowhere, because these posts aren't in a vacuum.

I hope I was helpful, but think about it and tell your therapist what you think after you've considered matters. I've been an impromptu therapist for my closest friends at times because I listen, but I would recommend writing these thoughts down (perhaps not a library-full) to share with your therapist. They can only act on the information given to them. Other than that, good luck! I apologise if there are errors; I've been working non-stop all week and am getting sick of my usual habit of triple-checking correspondence.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Professional General Artist
You know what, you said the most amazing things I could ever read. I learned so much from what you shared with me and I thank you so much. I only have a few questions left though.

First Question - where can I find more people who think along the same lines as what I'm talking about? I mean, I don't even know where to start. This was only a recent thing that I thought to myself, "You know what? All I do is complain about the world aroung me and I've had enough! I should do something about it instead of &!@$#ing about it." Recently as in 4 months ago. I'm so consumed with thoughts and desires to think of something I could do for this world and do it peacefully. Not like those crazy fanatics that shout in the streets demanding that people listen and agree with what they say. Or else they will shout louder like as if the higher volume in voices would make a difference to my already damaged opinion of them.

Second Question - do you have any suggestions or advice on where you feel that I should watch out for? I mean if I could get fair warning of any mistakes you've made in the past, maybe I can try my best to share the weight of that torch you are holding. I mean, people who care about the world should stand and work together. Problem is that not everyone is ignorant. They just would rather do nothing about it than to do something about it. Which does infuriate me, because nothing will change even if they pretend that the elephant in the room is invisible.

Last Question - do you think that my goal is naive? I just want your opinion, it's not going to stop me because my mind is set, but I feel that you would have invaluable knowledge on this subject that would be crazy for me to ignore.

I talk to my therapist about this all the time and she says that it's unhealthy for me to keep stressing about this goal of mine. However she adviced me to continue researching on the subject and to call her immediately if ever I experience one of my crashes (Bi-Polar)... not a very good experience. She's very good really, I feel bad that I don't always take her advice, but I don't think this is one of my highs. If it was a high, I wouldn't be feeling so stressed out. Plus my meds are regulating the problems, so I'm safe as long as I don't miss a day of meds.

Explaination so you know what I mean by Highs and Crashes (Symptoms of Bi-Polar):

Highs - is when I get so excitable that I think I'm God (Near over-exaggeration) I did once think I had super powers... not a good day for my family...

Crashes - is when I experience the exact opposite, with equal intensity, as the high I encountered. The depression can cause me to get pretty unhappy thoughts (under-exaggerated)... also not a good day for my family.

I don't know if you know what bi-polar is, so I explained it just in case. Anyway, I'm so sorry for typing too much. It's so hard to compress what I want to say.
Reply
:iconwolfyspice:
WolfySpice Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Aye, I know what bipolar is. A close friend of mine has it. It's certainly not one of the easier conditions to manage. I have an anxiety disorder myself which left me largely crippled at home for five years. Only in the past 18 months have I actually had a normal life through sheer courage and force of will. Imagine your worst fear, then multiply it by a factor of ten. Then have sickening, terrifying panic attacks over it almost constantly, every day, every week, every month, for years. Each attack feeling like a heart attack, like you're about to collapse and die. Can you imagine it? Probably not. It's not terribly enjoyable.

As for your first question... I'm not sure I'm the best person to answer. I have maybe one peer my own age that thinks likewise; the rest are much older or professionals. However I would say look for groups online. I found an excellent community myself and met many locals just last week. I'm not sure what there is in Canada, but there should be things around. I'm just a member of the Atheist Foundation of Australia and I found both a lot of support and like-minded people interested in social justice. Apart from that, and a guitar site or two, dA is the only other place I post; I've barely done any serious visual art in yeeeaaars. I'm just a forum whore. Any other communities or blogs I just read without commenting.

For your second question... I'm afraid I don't know much about you beyond what you've posted. I'm not sure I've made any 'mistakes' as such that you might make. I suppose all I can offer is to show empathy. Some people may be ignorant, but they might not be purposefully so, nor might they be unintelligent. Some things just aren't noticed. I'd say just check your behaviour, and be aware of it. See how certain things make you feel, then learn to recognise when that's happening. Cognitive behavioural therapy is great when you can do it. When you go to do something you shouldn't, or think something you shouldn't, you'll be able to catch yourself and think twice before doing it.

Hmm... I would also say, if you feel offended or taken aback, ask yourself why, and look at it from a clear perspective. When I heard of the concept of 'male privilege', I had no idea what was meant by it. But I grew suddenly and alarmingly aware; it seemed so simple, but I had no idea it existed because I wasn't discriminated against based on gender. Then I started seeing even more things wrong. But, the thing is I actually stopped, looked, and considered. Some people don't. And going by my example, those people who don't are 'men's rights activists', a festering pool of degenerate scum who refuse to listen to women because they want to treat them as meat and not lose their privilege.

Last question... naive? ...Your goal isn't, I don't think. How you go about it might or might not be. I can't really offer much in that regard... All I can say is that talking about things is better than not talking about things. I'm perhaps not the best to talk about this; I ended up studying law because I wanted a challenge and I wanted to make a difference. It's not exactly something everyone can just make a commitment to do, after all. But, that kind of ties into everything. I'm a very quiet, reserved and introverted person and I don't like public speaking... but when I stand behind that desk in a trial and launch into my argument, I'm imposing, confident, persuasive and damn near unstoppable. Maybe you could find an outlet to work towards your goal? I'm really not sure what to offer; maybe spread awareness of issues? Talk about things with others?

In the end, I'd say your therapist is right: don't stress. Given my history of crippling anxiety, I would think that coming from me would be far more poignant than anyone else saying that. I'm one of the most calmest, stress-free people in existence despite my anxiety. If something happens, it happens; if it doesn't, it doesn't. Leave the disappointment but take the lesson for next time. Always learn and do better next time.
Reply
:icondigitalripple:
DigitalRipple Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Professional General Artist
Thank you so much for the taking the time to explain your views on this subject. I've learned a lot from what you said and I feel I can use your advice to formulate a more mature way of thinking. It's interesting how much you can learn from other people because I get so caught up in my own thoughts that I forget that the reason why that happens is because it becomes circular.

Circular as in, you never grow if all you have is your own thoughts so the reason why a problem arises is because the same thoughts get recycled and nothing truly new comes out of it.

I hope that I was able to inspire thought on your part as much as you were able to do for me, and I don't think I can express how greatful I am, that you took the time to help out a stranger like me.

I hope to use what I learned and pass it along so that it doesn't get lost on me. ^___^
Reply
:iconwolfyspice:
WolfySpice Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
No worries!
Reply
Add a Comment: