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January 18, 2013
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Power = Responsibility

:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013
We've all heard the famous quote from Spider Man, "With great power, comes great responsibility." God is supposed to be all-powerful, but allows terrible things to regardless, often as a result of his own doings. Seems rather irresponsible, doesn't it? When asked why, many Christians will respond with, "He is the Almighty, He can do what He wants."

So my question is: If great power comes with great responsibility, then why does infinite power exempt God from infinite responsibility?
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Devious Comments

:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Because God is good, he cannot be evil.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013
Considering the state of the world, he must then be incompetent.
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Student Digital Artist
All good things come from God.

All bad things come from man, it's simple.

To answer your signature.

God is only willing to help those that turn to him, yet he even helps those who do not ask him for his help. God says MANY times in the Holy Qur'an that he is able to unite all of mankind and restore peace and order and justice in the world and remove poverty, but then where is the test? What is the point of our existence? He is indeed the omnipotent, he can do whatever he pleases, and what he wants to do is create a world full of creatures following his orders and surpassing his tests.

The reason poverty exists is because of us humans. Tell me, if God is truly evil, then when a man plants a seed and waters it, will the ground refuse to grow the plant with its fruits that you may eat? Of course not.

God created this world filled with EVERYTHING we humans need to survive and live and cherish, only what we humans invent bring about corruption and disorder.

And this is all part of our test.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013
"God is only willing to help those that turn to him, yet he even helps those who do not ask him for his help."

If you cannot understand the inconsistency of that sentence, then this conversation will go no further.
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Sorry my bad in my English.

What I meant:

"God helps those who turn to him for help, and yet, he even helps those who do not turn him if he so wills."

A father will reward his child with dessert if he finishes dinner, but if the father is well pleased with his child in school, he may give him two desserts!

This father-son relationship is the same type with that of God and human.

Religion is the system that establishes this connection, like a family establishes a connection between parents and their children.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013
I believed in God, once. And let me tell you; you can't have a relationship if it's wholely one-sided.
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Feb 12, 2013  Student Digital Artist
How many sides are there?
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Good conclusion.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013
Of course; benevolence is no excuse for negligence.
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
God is negligent but he is not evil per se.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013
There's also the option that God is impotent; he's actually not all-powerful and can't really do a damn thing about anything.
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
There's also the medieval Jewish question: Is God broken?
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013
At this point, I'm confident that the answer is a big, resounding, "YOU THINK?!"
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(1 Reply)
:iconroflo-felorez:
RoFlo-Felorez Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013  Student Digital Artist
ok i hate to make myself sound like the typical Catholic defending his religion, but i have to say this,
you're forgetting that God let us live in a world with free will, and it's our choice to decide whether we want to use our abilities to help or hurt the world, we cannot blame God for the actions of others. we are all His children, and a loving Parent will love His children despite everything they do, yet we take advantage of this so much so that if nothing happens we assume that He's left us alone. If He took action to the point where we see criminals magically flying to jail without any help from the authorities, then the world would be all too easy for us and nobody would work to achieve anything great. I'm sure He's doing everything He can right now to make sure that all the little speedbumps in the road will get us exactly where we need to be, and where we are right now.

Tell me, why is it when someone is faced with the crappies conditions they could imagine, or even a first world problem, they think "God has forgotten me, screw him!", but when they achieve success or joy, they think "I did this all on my own, God didn't do a damn thing!"? People like to think that they can do whatever they want, but i'm sure this is all part of something much greater than you and me, and however long it takes, we cannot blame God for the actions of evildoers, we blame the evildoers themselves. And don't go around forcing other people to explain why they think God does what he does, we're all human, and i'm pretty sure the person with the right explanation is nearly impossible to find. All i'm saying is to keep an open mind to see maybe why things happen the way they do. Here's a quick example; people think its bad to say "everything happens for a reason" when it comes to rape, but despite what happened to Pam Stenzel's mother, she continued the rest of her life helping people everywhere practice safe sex and to prevent sexual diseases from spreading, how? by helping people think on a deeper level instead of acting on impulses. The world is not perfect, and i'm sure there's a lot of other great stories that begin with tragic events, yet hopefully the world realizes its problems and rises from its mistakes to start over a new. If that doesn't happen, don't blame God, blame the actual people responsible for ruining our world.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2013
I should point out that free will and a divine plan are actually incompatible. If free will takes precedence, then a divine plan is pointless, as it would have to be constantly changed and adjusted to fit with every new action and decision. If a divine plan takes precedence, then free will is just an illusion, as everything you do, say or even think is all "part of the plan." If we have the choice, the future is not set; if the future is set, then we have no choice.

[link]
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:iconroflo-felorez:
RoFlo-Felorez Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013  Student Digital Artist
again, i must reinstate that the person with all the right answers to these questions is difficult to find, and probably a lot harder to understand. i admit that i don't know enough to take on your point, but that doesn't mean everything about free will and divine plan is wrong, for all we know there's probably a much more complicated plan for it all than we're capable of knowing about.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 3, 2013
All I can say is that God is either trying to play an RPG with an avatar that does whatever it wants, or we're all just characters in a story; our personalities and decisions adhering to a cosmological plot already predetermined by the pancelestial author.
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:iconroflo-felorez:
RoFlo-Felorez Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013  Student Digital Artist
well whatever happens, there's always an underlying reason in the end, and no matter how long we wait it always becomes apparent to us in the end, whether we believe in God or something else
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 8, 2013
Of course there's always a reason; there's just no reason to think that that reason is the will of a deity.
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:iconroflo-felorez:
RoFlo-Felorez Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013  Student Digital Artist
one day we'll see what it's all meant to be, i promise
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Feb 10, 2013
...You wouldn't happen to be talking about End Times, would you?
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(1 Reply)
:iconjoope:
JooPe Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013
"Kill one man they call you a murderer. Kill millions and they call you a king. Kill them all, a god..."

Human power structures have diluted humanity itself, to the point that many worship an obscenely sadistic sky-wizard which determines infinite punishment/reward at death based not on the moral conduct of the individual, but whether or not it chose to mindlessly believe/obey (or so they believe/claim to). In human behaviour and institutions, there is a huge discrepency between punishment for unethical/illegal behaviour relative to the power of that individual. Serial killers are at the very least imprisoned (as they should be) and brutalised for life (severe brutalisation/abuse is what creates most serial killers), yet those who torture entire fucking populations live long, luxurious lives only to die unpunished for their crimes, even many high ranking Nazis from WWII had decades of freedom before they stood trial.
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Responsibility grows with independence. To be responsible one must be dignified and honourable. Dishonour is a coward's conceit.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
:iconclapplz:
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:iconiriastar:
Iriastar Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
That is assuming God is an individual entity that's somehow separated from us.
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
God is a plague upon mankind.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
Reason is the cure.
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:icongalacticgoat:
GalacticGoat Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm pretty sure its been established quite well by now most religions views of God are so backwards ass and full of cognitive dissonance its a surprise the people that hold them don't start drooling from the sheer stupidity required to maintain those beliefs.

This is why when it comes to God by beliefs are deist at best. If a creator God exists it only is capable of creation and likely has little to no impact on what actually happens in our day to day life therefore with limited ability their only responsibility is creation. If their creations are idiots and our killing each other over stupid things like... say religious beliefs then its those creations' problem.

So my opinion is if there is a God the being is not actually all powerful. Its impossible for it to be without it being a massive douchebag or the worst parent ever.
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Student General Artist
Depends on what you believe God is responsible for. God, as I've know Him, is responsible for the spiritual growth of His people, meaning Christians. Thus far, He hasn't shirked that responsibility.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
If that's the case, then I'm a staunch believer that God is responsible for the fall.
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013  Student General Artist
And I'd have to agree with you. Satan and the concept of evil are necessary for a Christians growth into what God intended for humanity at the beginning: to be made in His image.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 22, 2013
You agree that Adam and Eve were not at fault?
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Student General Artist
Adam and Eve had to be responsible for their own actions, like us all, otherwise God's plan wouldn't work (No one forces Him on a course of action after all.) He will, however, permit our actions to take their full course.

Eve was at fault for believing a lie, and allowing insecurity and inferiority, the root of all sin by the way, to make her decisions for her.

Adam was at fault for not insuring his wife's safety, and listening to her rather than obeying obeying God, being the one God told directly.

Both of them were at fault for trying to hide their actions, and not taking responsibility for their actions, passing the blame on another. Throughout these events Adam and Eve chose time and again to reject the god-like image God had already given them, causing the death they were warned about. Not a physical death, as that was already in place, but a spiritual one.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
I still don't see how the fall was Adam and Eve's fault. Who chose to let the events play out as they did, despite knowing the consequences of their inaction? Who created the forbidden, yet strangely easily accesible, tree of knowledge? Who created the talking snake who instigated the event? Who failed to teach Adam and Eve that disobedience and death were to be avoided?

If a parent leaves a gun lying on the floor, who's fault is it if their child shoots themself in the foot?
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:iconkillianseraphim:
KillianSeraphim Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013  Student General Artist
Who said they didn't know that disobedience and death were to be avoided. God spent time with them on a daily basis for who knows how long, and concepts such as death and pain were not completely new to them. Thus to say they were ignorant I believe would be erroneous.

Sure, I agree that everything that occurred in the garden was allowed by God, and later in the Old Testament, God takes responsibility for it as well as everything else that occurs on this planet. However, humanity was also given responsibility for this planet, and we are also responsible for our own actions. God took care of His end when He died on the cross. He provided a means for us to return to that state before the fall, one so simple a child could accomplish it. What remains is our desire to choose that means.

Yes, I believe God is responsible for a lot, but I also believe, like Adam and Eve, we have a habit of shifting our responsibility on someone else.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2013
Nowhere in the Bible is it indicated that Adam and Eve had knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, nor is it stated that they interacted with God on a daily basis. This is nothing more than speculation. And this still doesn't change the fact that God set these events into motion, even while knowing they lead to a less than desirable outcome. If you have the power and the forknowledge to prevent evil, but chose not to, then you have no excuse.

Vicarious redemption through human sacrifice is disgusting. Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving god resort to such barbarism in order to forgive us for something that was ultimatly his fault? And why wait thousands of years to do so? Also, why would he need to forgive us? Adam and Eve were the ones who ate the fruit. Not you, not I, not anyone else in human history. Why forgive us for a crime we didn't commit?
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(1 Reply)
:iconghostinthepines:
GhostInThePines Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
Because He gave humans free will... He never promised to save us from our own stupidity, only our sins and an eternity in hell after death... Why should He intervene when humans abuse a right that He gave us? If we don't like what others do with that right, it's our responsibility to intervene, not His. Otherwise, His intervention would result in the taking away of that free will right from humanity.

It would be like promising a child that he can have whatever he wants to eat for dinner, and then when he chooses ice cream, telling him no. The ice cream might not be a "good" dinner for the child, but to tell him no is to go back on your word and turn yourself into a liar. God isn't supposed to go back on His promises, even if we make choices that He knows are not good for us.
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
Behold God [link]
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:icondotb18:
DOTB18 Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
*shudders*
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:iconsiantjudas:
siantjudas Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013   Digital Artist
Besides the fact that great power does not equal great responsibility.
Besides the fact that your trying to equate human values to what would be a superior being.

I'm treating your question as a hypothetical since I don't believe in God, but I can still make a clean argument.
In your problem, God is all powerful all knowing. You are not. You're just an ant. What you see is a very small narrow view of a much larger picture, a portion so small in fact that it is near worthless. You do not see the bigger picture, and think of things on your scale as "evil" "bad" "horrendous", yet in the greater scheme all these things are necessary, all these things are part of a plan for a greater good. Your tiny brain just can't comprehend that.
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
To counter your hypothetical argument "everything needing to occur for the greater good" is negated by the ither attributes of God. God is omnipotent then God IS capable of creating a universe in which free will exists without evil or suffering. God is omnibenevolent or all loving then it would be God's desire that evil or suffering would not exist. God is omniscient God would have known the universe in which we exist would not be perfect so long as he was not omnipotent as well and wiuld know how to mitigate this mistake or prevent it from happening at all.

Once logic is applied to the argument it falls apart as God cannot exist with all of the attributes and still be considered one or the other.
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:iconsiantjudas:
siantjudas Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013   Digital Artist
Not really, maybe he didn't want to make a "prefect" world.
But also you're viewing perfection from you vantage point. Perhaps to a superior entity the system is prefect.
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:iconsaeter:
Saeter Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013
This is where Epicurus Problem of Evil states that God is either malicious, uncaring, impotent or nonexistent.
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:iconsiantjudas:
siantjudas Featured By Owner Jan 19, 2013   Digital Artist
Good point. I think one more to the list should be oblivious though.
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:iconstoneman123:
stoneman123 Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
There you have the crucial logical flaw of an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent deity. Supposing he were omnipotent and omniscient, he's certainly not benevolent. The analogy I like to use is that of Superman. If Superman saw somebody getting mugged, he'd swoop down, beat up the mugger, return the victim's property, and fly the perpetrator off to jail. God, however, would (or does, if you prefer) just sit back and watch. If that mugger then proceded to throw their victim to the ground, rape them, and slit their throat, in all likelihood, God would just sit back and watch.

Often times, theists try to justify this in various ways, such as the cop-out of, "he works in mysterious ways." Indeed, I too would be hard-pressed to explain why wise old Jehovah would allow some innocent bystander to be robbed, raped, and murdered for nothing. Of course, this is far from the only glaring logical flaw in the idea of an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent deity.
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:iconincandescentinsanity:
IncandescentInsanity Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Student General Artist
God left his chemistry set active and went to watch TV
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:iconknightster:
Knightster Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013
"He is the Almighty, He can do what He wants." -looks at his name-
Awesome! : D

Anyway, God doesn't fall under our label of responsibility because of religious people's logic.
And although it means fuck all, they chose to roll with it regardless.
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:iconkittythenekoalien:
KittyTheNekoAlien Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Any evil that comes in the world is because humans chose to do it. Maybe God is trying to teach us to be responsible for ourselves and make us learn to actually cooperate with each other?
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2013  Student Digital Artist
God does not 'allow' terrible things to happen.

There are bad things that happen everywhere, but God does not help those who do not call for him.

There are haircuts in this world, right?

So because there are haircuts, there should be NO people running around on the streets with messed up shaggy hair.

Then why am I seeing people with long hair that is messed up?

It is simple, they don't bother visiting the salon and get their hair trimmed.

So its the same thing with God.

People are suffering every day, how many of them call God for help?

Some of these people never call God to help them except when they are suffering, so then this type of suffering is now a TEST from God unto YOU. Why should God help those who never call him for help except when they THEMSELVES are struggling, THEN they turn to God to help them. These are hypocrites.

They ask God to help them when they suffer, but when they aren't suffering, they are living their life full of sin or whatnot, enjoying themselves, forgetting all about God again.

Now this is just the first scenario.

The second scenario is also explainable.

There are problems in this world like world hunger, poverty etc. Why is God allowing this stuff to happen?

You are wrong, he is NOT allowing this stuff to happen, WE ARE.

Humans are the ONLY creatures in this entire world that were given FREE WILL.

And because of this free will, WE are able to do BAD things, harm ourselves, harm others, and these acts are NOT committed by God, you cannot blame him for it.

Also, these problems that arose in society and this world, are NOT created by God, so it is NOT his responsibility to remove these afflictions. WE were the creators of these problems, NOT God, so it is up to US humans to solve these problems, inevitably. However, because of God's extreme grace and mercy, we ARE able to seek his help.

If every human strives to end these problems, GOD will be helping us as well. However, if we make NO efforts, God won't bother with us.

God will NOT end this himself, because it was not by him. God can HELP us with this, but it is not up to HIM to stop these evils, it is up to US.

God does not create anything bad in this world, everything that is created is good. Only what we HUMANS turn it into is bad, so it is then a creation from us humans, not God.

WE are responsible.

You think that God allows these terrible things to happen? You think he allows poverty and hunger?

Tell me, did God ever refuse to grow fruit from a tree when you planted it and watered it? Did God ever refuse to let you choose a place to live in in this world to start making a living? Did God ever refuse you to take a drink from his rivers and lakes spread throughout the world?

His mercy is so great, that HE himself grows the fruit and vegetables whenever he pleases. HE sends down the rain, when we don't water our plants, HE will do it for us, and then our food will grow, and we will eat it for our sustenance. He has given us pure water, as well as give us honey and milk, and out of all the natural things he has given us, we use those to create more things.

Anyone can take a seed, plant it and start growing food. Is God disallowing this? NO, of course NOT. It is HUMANS that disallow this freedom.

If you want to blame God for doing terrible things, claiming he is responsible for them, then actually find a legitimate reason for WHAT he is responsible FOR, and justify it.

Because all that God does is good, and he indeed is the most MIGHTY, the most POWERFUL.
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