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January 2, 2013
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
i see a lot of people floating around this forum suggesting that this isn't real, something is a lie, or some other thing isn't possible; i was just wondering: what sort of things are real, true, and/or possible? Or is there even room for any of those things in our philosophy?
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:iconkarinta:
Karinta Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013  Student General Artist
Nothing is. Experience is merely an objectification of the mind.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013
It is now perhaps, but was it always so?
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:iconkarinta:
Karinta Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013  Student General Artist
Time is cyclic, and even that is an objectification of the mind, so yes.
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:iconsolum-ipsum:
Solum-Ipsum Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
"Knock, knock, Neo."

Oh, you might find interest in Advaita Vedanta Hinduism [link] and Solum Ipsum [link] – though neither links are an easy read.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013
:iconredpillplz:

Awesome thanks for the reading material, it should prove useful to experience the misconceptualizations of reality by other beings on the same quest.
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:iconsolum-ipsum:
Solum-Ipsum Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm glad I could contribute to your development. :D
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Well if WE humans are real, then whatever we experience, should also be considered real...right?

Because think about it, everything else in this world besides us humans is LESSER in intelligence than us. There are living and non living things, out of all the living things, the creatures, humans are the more intelligent and adaptable ones of its kind. So anything below us, we have the ability to perceive, experience, overpower, and those lesser things and objects AFFECT us and can change our views, our lifestyle, our condition...then it is real.

Well then how do we prove that WE are real?

Well by these simple Latin words. "Cogito Ergo Sum".

Translated in English. "I think, therefore, I am."

We humans are able to THINK and understand things that we find complex or things we want to correlate to. We think to solve problems when we are in difficult or awkward situations. These practices emit 'feelings' and alter our emotions, so when we see these 'effects' being brought forth by ALL of these different types of causes, the EFFECTS that we see and think is the EVIDENCE that we, human beings, exist.

So now that we exist, everything lesser than us (every physical object of this world and universe), exists as well.

We humans are the only creatures or animals, lets say, with free Will.

Now I believe in a creator, a God, and it may not be the same case with some of you, but I am pretty sure that you cannot deny that there is NOTHING else in the universe (as far as our knowledge goes), is more intelligent than us human beings.

And if you try to THINK of something EXISTING that is more intelligent than us, then you are just creating more evidence for yourself that you YOURSELF exist, because you are thinking. =)
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2013
Not necessarily, i am often faced with manufactured or false experience on my path, in fact i would say that a great deal of human experience is unreal. i do believe in a hierarchy of higher intelligence as displayed in nature though, which i think bears similarity to the model you described. However i have not experienced this as a case supporting the reality of our experience, if anything i think that it strengthens the case against accepting our experience at face value. You say that we humans are the only animals with free will, i was wondering if you thought that animals had souls or spirits?
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Student Digital Artist
None of our minds are perfect, because we have free-will, we are able to make errors.

Animals, trees, plants, life, etc do have souls, but their souls are not in the state of complete freedom as compared with humans.

ALL animals and other forms of life are under the Will of God.

Can a tree stop producing oxygen? Can a seed refuse to grow its fruit? Can the Sun refuse to shine its light? Can a moon refuse to become a mirror for the Sun? Can the grass refuse to grow? Can the clouds refuse to bring down precipitation?

Of course not.

Everything that God created in this world, somehow, correlates with human beings. All the creations are USED by humans in someway for their benefits.

God created these things FOR us. This entire world is for HUMANS.

God has given humans free will, we have the choice to do whatever we want. How can God test us if HE is controlling us? He cannot, that would be hypocritical.

We exist, there is no denying that. I do not really even know HOW people can deny it, but wherever there is doubt, the truth always can be found.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013
True. Do you believe that Humans have the power to alter other Humans free will?
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Humans can try and force or dictate the will of others, but remember, NO human can alter a human's inner will or state of mind.

For example, I am a slave, and my slave master can beat me and whip me and force me to do all his work, the master can separate me from my family, and put me through tiresome troubles and hard labor. The master will always say that we slaves are not even human, and that we are meant to be serving the rich, and this master will always keep telling me that I am nothing, that I am supposed to be a slave etc etc.

But the master can NEVER change my OWN will, that I AM a human, and that I DESERVE to be a free man etc etc.

Another example, a person can FORCE another person to accept a specific religion, but that person who is being forced to accept that religion, he may physically accept it, but MENTALLY and SPIRITUALLY, they DENY that religion.

So humans only have power over your body, but do not have power over your spirit. This type of stuff still exists today, no denying it.

Remember, Free Will comes in many forms, our freedom can come in our actions, the way we act, you know, or the way we think, the way we speak, the way we worship, the way we feel towards other people and things.

Evil humans can try and force humans to try and do something, but they will never succeed, and God will punish them for doing this in the after life.
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:iconepsilonxiii:
EpsilonXIII Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
what we eache are all the same person, but from different alternate universes, and all thos universes are just clumped together in a near singularity?
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
There is only one universe, to mention time as an example of this, basically like a long thread but instead of being stretched out lengthwise, it's knotted up and any infinite number of points along the timestream touch any infinite number of other points along the timestream.
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:iconepsilonxiii:
EpsilonXIII Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
so is it more like a fabric of interweaving points, or is it more like a ball of yarn, all in and out in a giant lump of knots?
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
i think it changes from moment to moment and place to place. Perhaps somewhere along the way a Chronoarchitech may have interwoven patches of silky materials, and other places someone may be fumbling around with numerous tangles of knots, maybe both from time to time.
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:iconepsilonxiii:
EpsilonXIII Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Ahhh, science... Makes no sense and so much sense at the same time
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Indeed. :)
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:iconpokecat:
pokecat Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Its the MATRIX man. BD

Science did show an experiment where obsereved tests yields results diffrent from the unobserved tests...
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Dude...what if we are the MATRiX?
:matrixfight:
Were the observers being observed? i wonder if that might also have affected the results... And what if those observing the observers were also observed would that have any effect?
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:iconamalaazula:
AmalaAzula Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013   Digital Artist
This damn hunger I'm having is REAL.
But I'm so lazy to go to the kitchen.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
At some point reality is going to out weigh the illusion of lazyness and you're going to head for the kitchen.
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:iconamalaazula:
AmalaAzula Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013   Digital Artist
I've done it!!! I went and got food!! It was bound to happen.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2013
perhaps, but i was gambling against the odds that your random lazyness might escalate into sleepiness or moreover might cause you to develop psychokinetic powers that you might employ to bring you food.
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:iconepsilonxiii:
EpsilonXIII Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
you're obviously a time lord... because you knew what I was about to do before I did it.
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:iconwonderglass:
Wonderglass Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013   Photographer
i prefer the term Chronoarchitect.
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:iconepsilonxiii:
EpsilonXIII Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
lawl
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:iconedenhearne:
EdenHearne Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Our brain is telling us everything. How can you or I know for sure that this is real? We can't see from other people's perspective and never will. Are they real people? Do they see what we see?
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Perhaps we could devise a way to see things through perspectives other than our own.
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:iconcarusmm:
carusmm Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Reality's something you don't wake up from.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Wake up?
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:iconincandescentinsanity:
IncandescentInsanity Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student General Artist
I am real and you are all figments of my imagination. I am talking to my subconscious
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
But i'm not real either.
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:iconincandescentinsanity:
IncandescentInsanity Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student General Artist
Nope
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
aren't you worried that talking to yourself might make you a bit crazy?
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:iconincandescentinsanity:
IncandescentInsanity Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student General Artist
nope 8D
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Me either i guess... :XD:
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:iconsnitz3l:
Snitz3l Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
I'M REAL!
:D
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
You'd almost have to be.
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:iconsnitz3l:
Snitz3l Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
Lawl
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:iconstripedpower:
StripedPower Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013   Digital Artist
I would say everything is real in it's own reality.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
That's a possibility... but i wonder if there is perhaps an ultra-reality, a deep underlying reality connecting all individually relative realities, a deeper reality more real than any reality.
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:iconstripedpower:
StripedPower Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013   Digital Artist
There are many deep underlying realities. They're called "dimensions".
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
Are these dimensions like length and width or like a parallel world you might find on the far side of an Einstein-Rosen bridge?
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:iconstripedpower:
StripedPower Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013   Digital Artist
States of consciousness.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
So a little of both then. :)
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
It would seem to be a simple proof by definition at the very least. What is "real" doesn't seem to be the problem. "How do we know what is real" is much more interesting. Especially since the world as revealed by our senses is merely a useful model of our environment and not an accurate representation of what reality is really like, which lies beyond our perceptions.

For example, colours are merely mental labels for data that tell us something about the wavelengths that different substances absorb, reflect and refract, but they aren't "real" properties that actually exist outside of our minds. Another example: we know that objects are composed of atoms that are mostly empty space, and filled with a probability cloud of electrons that obey the most esoteric of quantum rules. We know this to be true and can understand reality in this context. But to truly witness this, to know reality in this form as we do the familiar mental models, defies comprehension. We can't live in an unfiltered reality.

Well, actually I don't know that to be true, I can't know it. Though I suspect that would be the case. If we could somehow render someone's experience of the universe that way from a young age then we could test that proposition. They might learn to find it natural, though I don't know what alterations to the brain would be required to do so nor what effect on the development of the brain such perception would have. Idle speculation since there's no way to know, but you've got me wondering now.
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
You'd find them floating around the forum looking for reality.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Ah, but would they see words on a screen they can read, comprehend and therefore reply to, or witness only photons of various energies emitted due to recombination of electrons with electron holes in a patterned plane of gallium nitride semiconductor with a Y3Al5O12:Ce phosphor coating?
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:iconrionx:
RiONX Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Perhaps all three. :XD:
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Damn punctuation, I had only two options up there.
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