first thing is church marriage and civil marriage, if some bunch of people wants to believe that an old book that has been transcripted and translated many times and written by many many different people who claim to have spiritual inspired from a superior entity who they call God and get to conclussion that homosexual are not allowed to get married in their church that's just fine like is also fine that I get to believe that bananas are a evil weapon of aliens to dominate as all and that everyone that eats a banana is therefore doomed to mind control forever and for that those people can just not come to my friends parties, it's sucks, but people do have the right to believe what they want. Luckily there are civil rights provided for humans by nations states laws and constitutions no matter they skin tone, gender, music taste, sexual atraction and fruit choice, therefore homosexuals should be allowed to get married and banana eaters should be allowed to go to any party that is not hosted by me and my friends.
second, not all gays are adorable, if you knew me, being gay would be the last thing for what you would hate me.
and third and final, If there is a God out there everywhere and all that, he can really go and eat a banana and let me be, cause humans shouldn't be pets, nor pokemons, nor slaves, nor machines, nor tools for anyone. Human beings have will and is just so anoying that some omnipresent eternal powerful being dude claims that his will is more important, I mean ,yes, he she could have created and given me the gift of life and could bring the end of me with lighting strike any second he wishes like a kid playing to kill ants with a magnifier, but that's is just freaking fu**** up and psyco, is like being at the bottom of the well and him being at the top asking me to put the lotion in the basket, freeking insane. Gay marriage are going to be as bad as any other straight marriage, we can handicap some kid's judgment for life like any other straight couple with our beliefs, it our civil right and you know who isn't human? God. So I guess when I get to hell I'll burn for eternity and forever sufferunder his will, but meanwhile on earth, God could step a side and let me be.
THANK YOU, first off, for saying "SOME Catholic people" and not just Catholic people. I get so sick of being called a bigot, hater, and discriminator for merely being Catholic and voicing my opininons. (I have JUST as much of a right to express what I believe even if it goes against what's fashionable in the current social issues.)
Anyway, I do believe gay marriage shouldn't be legal. I'm not one of those people who say that gays "choose" to be gay. I believe that many gays are simply born that way and that's life. However, I believe the institution of marriage is between a man and a woman as this is the way that God made it to be. Gays are not mentally ill, nor are they "mistakes" of nature. They are like every human being who have a struggle in life. People are born naturally addicted to alchohol, does that make it okay to be an alchoholic? (I'm not against drinking. Everything in moderation.
Although some Catholics are bigots, many are not. They do not protest against the homosexual as a person. they protest against their lifestyle. I do not condemn being gay, you are what you are, but I protest marrying the same gender. Just as I do not protest people who drink too much, I protest against their unhealthy lifestyle.
I never actually seen/read something like this. I guess what you said is a bit too much for my brain to process because, I'm an antichirst and i can't see any possible way of not being against gay people or drunk people but protesting against their rights or lifestyle.
People who are insecure about their sexuality might find that hating homosexuals is a way of compensating for it. Perhaps they think that if people see them being against homosexuality, no one will think that they are gay. And what better environment to breed people who are insecure about their sexuality than with a religion that teaches you that nudity and sexuality are somehow dirty and indecent?
I understand what you mean but in my case I don't think that this is the issue, as my friend is really religious and will always fight for what she believes in (the whole Bible stuff). So I know that some people do that and I thought that she might be one, but after time I think that with her love for "God" she can't be a homosexual.
A lot of truth to this, I'm afraid. And as we've seen before again and again. "regligion", "rules" and "laws" generally backfire, because they have no true hold over a person's heart, their desires, and what they want deep down, anyway. :\ It just prelongs the inevitable, and often makes them even more indulgent in what it was they were refraining from! (regardless of it being right or wrong)
I just read this article that says you can't quote Leviticus to prove that God hates homosexuality. [link] It's a great article that really brings up a lot of great points that I did know, just never really thought about concerning this topic. Like how we are no longer under the Law of the Old Testament because Jesus wiped out that old law. I've argued with that point considering tattoos and piercings and how we no longer need to abide by the law so the verses about piercings and markings being sinful no longer applies. I apologize but I, nor anyone else, can no longer use that verse to argue that God hates homosexuality. However, in the New Testament, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
No where in there does it single out homosexuality as being any worse than the rest. I know I'm guilty of a few...that doesn't mean God hates me.
I've read your comment before and thanks for the link by the way. So, I knew that the Old Testament wasn't meant to be taken as a serious thing anymore as to the reasons that you've pointed out. I agree on the New Testament as it does say that everyone sins and that God loves everyone and isn't that what we were taught as children? That God loves everyone?
So in my opinion, a lot of Christians should be careful while picking out their evidence from the Bible as they are no longer under the Law of the Old Testament.
By the way, I'm really happy that this forum continued for such a long time
If you are no longer under the law of the old testament then the ten commandments are null and void because they're also in the old testament.
Adding to that, i hope you're aware that jesus said very concisely that the old testament would not be changed at all and that all that was said in those testaments would not be changed. And considering that jesus is in fact god, i think you can probably take his word for it.
Yes, you are correct, the external ten commandments are not longer required, since Christ is the fulfillment of the law set up in people's hearts. This is how the law is crumbling away (its effect and power is completely gone in one sense).
You are referring to Matthew 5:18, yes? "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
The wonderful news is that Jesus did fulfill the law's complete purpose (Hebrews)! He helped to complete it by further revealing the hate and sin in our heart against ourselves, other people, and God. Then his death on the cross and resurrection made him the new mediator for us, so we are no longer ruled and bound by the law. Now we yearn for God, others, and ourselves in freedom from legalism and indulgence alike, clothing ourselves in love, pursuing what is good without having to be told how to do it from some archaic stone tablets and lore - because truth is written inside of us now.
I understand but the point of me saying all that stuff is for the people that are against gay people getting married, and I don't mean Civil Partnership, I mean actual marriage like straight people get.
I really can't speak for those who oppose but as what to I know from the church (during mass and such), they really do oppose since the church always push (or force) what they think is right for the people (even to those who doesn't believe in Christianity). Well, as a catholic myself, I find it really hard to cope with, always, always pushing the 'right' thing to do (well the right thing according to their judgement).
If there's a religion who supports their orientation, then they can marry there. I do not really think that they can get married in Christian churches as far as I know...
Well, that's what they believe in.. We cannot do anything about it since there will always be a group of followers who will hate who you are based on their religious beliefs as long as they consider it is wrong. But it shouldn't be like that. As a catholic, I hope some of them would really take this to the heart, "love the sinner not the sin."
However, as for myself, I am having fun with gay people, I never think of them wrongly just because they are gay. Actually a lot of them are funny and cracks a lot of great jokes, thus makes me happy. I do not judge them, as I have no power to do that. But I'll repeat my point, concerning marriage, they can't marry to a church who oppose gay marriage. That is something that I think can never change.
hmm.. I have some troubles understanding this... *searched for the word retograde*
anyway, I do not know how you see my opinion, but my point is, I really don't mind gay couples. they could marry all they want as long they won't bug me like any other people do. that's their lives. adding the 'gun pointing at my head' is something that i would mind the most, thus made the comparison. it's like what i do not mind vs. what i would mind.
Its just a very stark comparison. And the point i was hinting at making is, why would you think they would bug you with it?
Under what circumstances could two people of the same sex getting married for the tax benefits ever interfere in your life? Because the implication is, when you say "so long as they don't X" is that you consider X a possibility.
And regardless, you may or may not know this but most gay couples don't want to be married for the religious connotations, its primarily because of the tax and social benefits. Which are being denied to them just because they're gay.
well, that is good. thanks for the information on your last paragraph.
about your first question, what? did I say anything that they bug me? What I said is that I do not mind them as long as they won't annoy me personally. for example, if that specific gay couple shouts at me, yell at me, etc., that I would mind (actually, even a straight person do that I would be annoyed, I couldn't care less about the orientation). but as long as they are peaceful, what should I mind them? Not minding is not equal to being bugged. they do not interfere my life.. =_=
I think you do not see my point. To make it simple, or to simplify it, -1. I do no care if they marry. Just that not on any church who doesn't support their orientation. (thanks for clarifying this though) -2. I do think of them as any other average person. Meaning, annoy me or not, that's what matters.
What I believe, being a theist, I do not force it unto others. Neither force them for the right path. I believe in free will. I mean, I'm not a perfect person, so neither anybody except who I believe is my Lord. With that reason, me and gays are alike, we are both sinners.
" for example, if that specific gay couple shouts at me, yell at me, etc., that I would mind (actually, even a straight person do that I would be annoyed, I couldn't care less about the orientation). You pretty much just admitted that your opposition was unfounded in the explanation. So why even make that connection? Replace the word gay with black and your statement makes just as much sense.
"but as long as they are peaceful, what should I mind them? You're talking about them as if they're animals. What kind of a human being are you? Where exactly is your reason in these assertions? Every opposition you come up with you then immediately try and cover your tracks by saying "I don't mind them so long as they're peaceful, but i wouldn't mind it anyway from anyone as long as they're peaceful." Define 'peaceful.'
" i do not force it unto others. " If you have kids, you'll teach them to think as you think and that is going to severely limit their ability to function in the real world.
"me and gays are alike, we are both sinners." So, you're a sinner because you have done things that god does not want you to do. And gays are sinners because god made them gay?
And you worship the being that did this to them? Condemned them to a life of misery if they chose to follow the teachings of the bible?
This is why religion is dying out and the world is getting better for it.
yup. replace anything, it works. black or whatever. I just don't care. You clearly don't understand my point as you complicate it that much.
Oh so my sentence makes you feel that they are like animals? Up to what kind of deductions or observations or whatever would you like it to view out of a simple sentence or point of view? Do you know that you are making it hard for yourself?
My kids are of a different issue here. VERY DIFFERENT, as I have a high maternal instinct. which separates my own to that not of my own. Let's not discuss this.
yup. I am a sinner. God made them gay? did you forgot that I told you that I believe in free will?
Yup I worship the Being, mg Lord, who I can never fully understand. For I believe that there is One out there who is superior to us to "everything." I want to use an analogy but I better not be, since you would complicate things out of a simple sense.
Dude, relax. Just relax, because now I don't know if your a troll or what.
Leviticus 18:22 ([link]) says it is an abomination. But then again, so is lying and cheating and pornography and killing and disobeying and coveting and cursing and stealing and...you get the picture. All of those things, things that you and I and every human being has struggled with, all of those are sins in God's eyes. That's why He sent Christ to pay for all of those sins. I am a strong Christian and I do believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman, HOWEVER I don't condemn homosexuals for wanting to or getting married. I believe that it is a sin, just like every single one that I have committed. I know I am not going to Hell because of the sins I have committed, so who the heck am I to think that gays are going to Hell because of the sins they have committed? I fully deserve to go to Hell. I don't deserve anything better, but I am saved because Christ paid that price and went to Hell for me and I fully believe that. Jesus says "Love one another." He doesn't say "Love only the Christians and hate all the homosexuals and liars and cheaters," although some Christians interpret it that way. It's none of my business to deny homosexuals the right of marriage. I won't love you any less. God won't love you any less, no matter what frickin Westboro Baptist Church says.
That's my view with the utmost respect. I hope that wasn't too much Jesus for anyone but then again, you can't have a religious thread and expect no religion.
But if you love someone then you're that sexuality so if you THOUGHT you were gay but liked a woman then that's you being a bisexual, but if you actually ARE gay then you wouldn't fall in love with a woman.