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December 30, 2012
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
First off, I just want to know what effect would the existence of ghosts have on religion. I only ask this because my Christian friend said if ghosts exist, then there is no God so ghosts don't exist.
Second, if you could summon a demon would you? And why?
Last, Have any interesting ghost encounters?
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:iconmci021:
mci021 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
First, your Christian friend is an idiot if he really believes that the existence of ghosts somehow negates the possibility of God. Considering that a ghost is one of the persons of the holy trinity, then it seems like god and ghosts get along pretty well.

Second, given what we know of demons, no, you don't want to summon them. It's just a bad idea.
Third, considering that humanity has been tussling back and forth about the existence of ghosts since the beginning of time, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that they're not real. Thus, no one has actually had a genuine ghost encounter, they've only experienced things they can't explain.
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:icondragonflae:
Dragonflae Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
I wouldn't take the time to summon any demons, I've enough running around already. It's at the point where I can't count them all on one hand.

As for 'ghost' encounters, do you want the list in alphabetical or chronological order?
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Chronological works for me :P
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:iconazncutie720:
azncutie720 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
I've been reading this book for a while
[link]

I've always been on the fence but I think I may start to lean towards a side soon!
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Interesting...I won't buy it but if you could give me a few quotes on what the evidence is then I'd love to see it! :D
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:iconangelxxuan:
angelxxuan Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student General Artist
I have summoned demons yes, know the rules upon summoning, casting a circle strong enough to hold one and don't ever believe a nice and fluff person to be not a demon. Ouija boards can be another dangerous device to play with. but ghosts do exist, some believe them to be an essence of something left behind, the person was so strong in life or they were so connected to something of possession that even in death they linger. and others believe they are actually true ghosts/spirits wondering about. Christianity is one of many religious beliefs towards ghosts/so forth, other religions and individuals believe otherwise. if it wasn't for so many near death experiences I believe I wouldn't have such a clear understanding of how this works.
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
So you can say without a doubt, you believe in the paranormal?
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:iconpuppy-dangerous:
puppy-dangerous Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Professional Artisan Crafter
How do ghosts disprove God? I though the idea among those type of people is that the soul didn't find its way to heaven or whatever.

Anyway:
For me, in my path, ghosts are a natural part of the universe. I don't believe they are, for the most part, the spirits of the deceased, more like echoes of their energy left behind. I believe once in a while there MAY be an actual soul in the area, but generally not.

Yes, I can and have summoned demons. But I know how to put them away properly. And the word 'demon' is rather subjective, anyway, Christians have a very different definition than I do. And as for the why, well, because I needed something from them.

Hm, when I was a kid my room was really badly haunted. It was built across an old logging road. Really, REALLY freaky things happened. Doors opened and shut, things grabbed me from under the bed (literally- so many times that until I was an adult I slept curled into as tight a ball as I could so they wouldn't be able to get my feet from the foot of the bed), I had double doors on my closet and they would disengage from the tracks and slowly bloom open in the middle of the night...

The only really interesting 'new' ones are from quite awhile ago. A farm I worked at had been built over a civil war road, and we'd occasionally see soldiers walking down it. There was a lady (well, half a lady) who would stand at the top of the stares and occasionally try ad push you down, really creepy nasty thing. Then there was Fred, who would roll glasses down the hall, change the TV and alarm clock (I caught him at it one night after the third time he did it) and write on the wall- you'd see impressions of lines appear that would go away after you either read or traced them with a pencil. And he'd sit down on the bed, you could actually see his butt-prints.
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Most interesting ghost story yet, nice! You're one lucky person.
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:icondeizzan:
Deizzan Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Your friend sounds conflicted, but at the very least he doesn't believe in ghosts.

If I had the ability to summon demons I would because that would be cool as hell.

Yes, I do actually have an interesting ghost encounter. Unfortunately the encounter takes a bit to recount. I do not believe in ghosts. I find it more likely that my brain was convinced that I was seeing something rather than something actually being there.
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:icondutchconnaisseur:
DutchConnaisseur Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
They all don't exists.
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:iconschnitzelmobile:
SchnitzelMobile Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
I'd summon a demon for my own gain, yes
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:iconreptilliansp2011:
ReptillianSP2011 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student General Artist
So you wanna try Lilith the demoness? ;)
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
What would you attempt to gain from it? :o
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:iconschnitzelmobile:
SchnitzelMobile Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Things of a highly sexual nature. That, and power. Not neccesarily in that order either
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Sums up what I'd do. Good taste in desires.
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:iconschnitzelmobile:
SchnitzelMobile Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013
If given the option, take it. 'S the motto I go by
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:iconiriastar:
Iriastar Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
When I was a christian, I didn't have any problems with the idea of "ghosts" existing. And neither did anyone else.
Perhaps you can tell your friend this: "Ghosts are disembodied spirits who haven't went to heaven/hell yet". That'll probably make him see things in a different way.

I wouldn't summon a negative entity if I could. There's no point in doing that.
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
What if the negative entity was forced to do your bidding?
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:iconiriastar:
Iriastar Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
I'd tell it to free itself from my bidding.
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:iconkyteglory:
KyteGlory Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
I don't really understand your first question. Are you asking what would happen if we suddenly gained irrefutable proof that ghosts either exist or do not exist? Or what would happen if ghosts had just been wandering around in plain sight all along?

Whether or not I summoned a demon would depend on how you're using the term "demon." If we're talking about about demons as in "inherently evil beings which will take any opportunity to harm to others," then no I would not summon a demon. That would be stupid of me. However, in a lot of mythologies, demons are perfectly capable of being kind, trustworthy, and gentle. In that case, yeah, I might summon a cool demon. He'd be my bro and we could do shit together.

I've experienced extremely weird phenomena that I cannot explain, but they've been nothing like typical experiences for ghost encounters. If anything, they'd be more animatistic and animistic experiences than experiences involving souls of dead people. The only times I've seen the likes of apparitions or poltergeists is when I'm on drugs or doing that thing where I wake up but am still dreaming, so I guess I can explain that. For the rest, I still remain largely unconvinced, because I've studied psychology and I know how fallible our perceptions and memories are. I'm not going to blame my experiences on spirits or "energies" or hallucinations or anything, because the only truth is that I don't know what happened.
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
To answer your first question, yes, if we gained proof they existed; would if affect religion?

The demon question is however you want to interpret it, whether it be the evil/kind demons so be it.
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:iconkyteglory:
KyteGlory Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
Probably not. Those whose beliefs are confirmed by the new findings will gloat, of course. Those whose beliefs are discredited by the new findings will rationalise and deny it the same way they might rationalise and deny the facts that the earth orbits the sun and evolution is a thing. Maybe some followers will be won and lost. But overall, I doubt much change would occur.
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:iconkaikaku:
kaikaku Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I don't fully understand why that would be a deal-breaker. I guess because it implies that the spirits didn't go to heaven or hell? Most of the Christians I know believe in ghosts of a sort, I think...? I guess I haven't asked them all specifically.

I don't know if I've had ghost encounters. I've had things happen that I thought might be encounters, but they didn't stand up to scrutiny, and in any case I couldn't prove that they were encounters. I've also got so much wishful thinking that they were that I'm afraid to let myself imagine that's what they were. I want people to survive death. But I think the most likely scenario is that they don't, and that human cognition is funny. There are patterns where there are no patterns.
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
If it helps, I had 2 encounters.
1) Woman as tall as my hallway (8 feet) with no eyes and fully blackened out mouth and white clothing (Cliche' much? Come on ghosts!) Then I went blind for a few seconds.
2) I was walking down the hall and bumped into something. But nothing was there. Like, the hallway is 4 feet apart, and I bumped into something, like a wall/or maybe a person that was invisible.
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:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
In Buddhism, there is an entire realm of life for hungry ghosts. so yeah, I think ghosts exist.....

I don't know why ghosts existence means God doesn't exist?

Maybe I will summon a demon, to ask what he eats, how he live, whether he is bounded by the law of physics or not, etc. it would be an interesting conversation! :D

no ghost encounters
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
That's what I like to hear!..err see! Curiosity regardless of present knowledge of danger! Huzzah!
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:iconhanciong:
hanciong Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think the evil-ness of demon is a propaganda spread by anti-demon group LOL :D
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
I know right? Wow, only took 4 years to find someone accepting of demons xD (Someone not devoted to the subject). Another example of propaganda would be the fact Hell is full of flames and fire but not described as that in the Bible.
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist
Confirmation of ghosts probably wouldn't have a negative effect on religion.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Is the demon evil, or perhaps only chaotic neutral?
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Depends on which one you summon, but yeah, there's chaotic neutral. And some dude who I assume is a demonology professional said you can restrain it's presence meaning you can release just enough of it to see it and speak without it being able o harm or influence. With that said, I'd go for the ugliest, most evil one you could find.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
That's no good, you'd just be promoting the stereotype. People are terribly racist towards the differently demonic.
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:iconhametsunocharge:
HametsuNoCharge Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
1 - well Buddhism believes in reincarnation of if there are spirits wandering about they might be those who are stuck on the earthly plane and simply haven't been reborn yet. Hinduism seems to share this characteristic (from what little I know of it).

Christianity....seems to stay away from the topic altogether. The only mention of it seems to be that of the holy ghost/spirit who is an aspect of god.....later people made up that thing about becoming an angel if you were a good person before you died.

Shintoism seems to thrive on the premise that everything ever has a soul and personality that can "become a youkai" if it leaves said body, is worshiped, or gains enough knowledge and wisdom to live beyond it's years.


2 - yes, partially t see if I could, partially because I think demons are rife with motivations and complex thoughts just like anyone else and don't really deserve their bad reputation. If one can be summoned safely...well I'd to try :)


3 - this one time, my friends and I were in a car, alone at a stoplight that was flickering between red and green. We wrote it off as a broken light and went our way. When we came back later though, there was another car on the road, and the light was working fine. Being somewhat out of our minds (I blame too much sugar and lack of sleep) we circled around about ten more times. When we were the only car in sight (about 5 times), the lights would flash. When we weren't (about 3 times...this was like midnight) it would be normal. The last two times we were alone, but it worked normally so we figured whatever was trying to fuck with us had basically given up by then XD
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Those subtle encounters whether paranormal or not are always the creepiest ones xD Your imagination takes hold and comes up with crazy stuff :P
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:iconhametsunocharge:
HametsuNoCharge Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
XD so very true. We actually MIGHT have imagined the whole thing, but hey I will never EVER forget that night......and I'm probably not goign to let anyone else forget either :D
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:iconrunespainter:
RunesPainter Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well, I can honestly say that no human *should* have the real answer to that first question. I'm a Christian, but in my opinion, I think there could be spirits wandering around.
I would not summon a demon. There is plenty evil in the world without them.
No, I don't believe I've encountered a ghost.
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:iconabstract-mindser:
Abstract-Mindser Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
Your christian friend is either understudied in their allegedly holy Bible, or taking it far too literally, as if he were to study a bit more, he'd realize that according to his religion, there is an entire invisible spirit world of angels and demons.
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:iconenuocale:
EnuoCale Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I think he might be basing it on the idea that if ghosts can wander around the world that that means there is no automatic afterlife anyone is immediately pushed into.
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
Yet again, an amazing example of Christians contradicting their own beliefs. And he studies or, well,appears to be reading it. Sadly he has invested too much in God so he's adamant about HIS interpretation which many Christians seem to be doing nowadays.
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist
Did he say he believed in ghosts and then said ghosts didn't exist? If so then that would be a contradiction. Making an ignorant statement isn't a contradiction, especially since your friend isn't any kind of scholar or expert.
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:iconskullwarrior13:
skullwarrior13 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
He just seems to contradict himself a lot so I'm just used to calling him out on it. :P
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:icontacosteev:
tacosteev Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist
Probably like many folk and just talk out of their butts :lol:
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