Keep up the good work After--Life! We need to start bring Gods word back into the mainstream again! We cant let satan trick us up! Satan is indeed trying his best to make us think sin is good, but we cant fall for that!
It makes two, primary claims in this particular piece:
1) That the promotion of homosexuality is propaganda to promote the underlying cause of preventing over population. 2) Homosexuality will lead to a multitude of other perversions, and cause society to delve into moral depravity in the sexual field.
To very easily and handily refute number one, there are thousands of years of history between the Greeks and us. Their motives are not our motives, it's that simple. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the motives in our present day society are population control. The first point is hardly worthy of a conspiracy theory, as at least conspiracy theories have shady and heavily pixelated photographs.
Secondly, the first point claims that society asks people to be homosexual, or that society is "recruiting" homosexuals. The most egregious, erroneous, and disgusting load of bullshit aside from the first point. No, society asks people to keep in mind that who they are is infinitely more important than what other people want them to be. The identity is a state of being where the human being is most comfortable and most at ease being, and if the person is most comfortable having sex with members of the same sex -- because, you know, they're homosexual -- then they should feel free to live the life they are most comfortable living.
It also implies by its claim that homosexuals are recruited that homosexuality does not occur naturally. I'm not going to argue about this, yes it does, objectively and irrefutably.
The second point is also ludicrous. Things like bestiality are not morally acceptable for legitimate reasons. It is mistreatment of animals, and animals do not have the logical capability to consent, in the same sense that a child doesn't have the logical capability to consent to sex either because they aren't adults who can understand the consequences of their actions. One does not lead to the other, because one has a legitimate reason to be illegal. The other, homosexuality, does not.
The author uses his research into Greek society as terrible excuse for research, and pretends like it has any relevance to his point whatsoever, when in reality it doesn't and when left standing alone it is a pretentious, abominable, and fallacy ridden garbage with fancy verbage.
Oh, and a theme throughout the piece that isn't horribly disgusting but simply wrong is that sexuality is about pragmatics. It isn't about what is beneficial for society, but beneficial for the person, because it has no effects on society. There are more heterosexuals than homosexuals, and it will stay that way for a long time, so there's no shame in letting people do as they please with their lives instead of suppressing what is wholly and entirely natural for some people.
it's not often you find a text which manages to collect so many fallacies in one place. This probably counts as some sort of reference material.
You don't like gay people. Do you really think they care? Why don't you just stay out of other peoples bedrooms. Dressing it up in ignorance only makes you look even more ignorant. I mean really, when you even start referencing actual scientific theories, it quickly becomes onvious that you have absolutely no idea what you speak of.
I think my favourite is linking homosexuality and child molestation, that one always works well for you bigots doesn't it? Really charming tactic.
Your friend's research, in my opinion, is a bit skewed. Homosexuality among the Greeks and what we see today are very different. In Greece, grown men, apart from their domestic heterosexual relationships, were expected to woo and court an 'eromenos' ie. pre-pubescent boy until he reached, i think, 17 yrs of age, whereupon he started a relationship with another young lad.
A grown man with another grown man in a relationship, which is our modern opinion of homosexuality, was considered perversion. Today, a grown man with a boy is called pedophilia and is considered as perversion.
Thus you see, homosexuality is a relative concept and has too many variations across time and culture which nullifies your historical viewpoint.
Also, if u insist that homosexuality is a product of environmental forces such as media, Id like to point out that religion is also a product of environmental forces. If u want homosexuals to give up their acts of homosexuality, u should also encourage the religious, starting with urself, to give up their religious acts.
Would you please give me the references your friend has used to come up with the conclusion that homosexuality was used by the Greeks to control population. As far as my knowledge goes, ancient cultures were susceptible to war which reduced manpower drastically and therefore encouraged breeding. (I am also of the opinion that Islam encourages many offspring, marriage at a young age and polygyny for the same reasons. I'd like if you could validate/refute this with adequate proof.)
It's not because, they cann't produce. It is the Law of God. It's abomination and against the nature of God, period. We read this truth in the book of Leviticus 22:18. We cann't get around that, no matter how we look at it.... "....Thou shalt not lie with "Mankind, as with Womankind." It is abomination."
Okay, let us look at this more cleary. We can enhance this verse and harmonized them in the book of Romans 1:24-28........... Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever................ For this cause "God gave them up" unto vile affections for even their "Women" (bisexual) did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And, likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another. "Men with Men" (homosexual) working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, "God gave them over to a reprobate mind", to do those things which are not convenient. . . Romans 1:24-28."
Do realise that homosexual behaviour has been observed in about 1,500 animal species, so it's far from unnatural. In fact, there's even a species of "lesbian lizards". Yes, the New Mexico Whiptail (Cnemidophorus neomexicanus) is an all-female species that engages in lesbian intercourse to induce parthenogenesis (asexually producing offspring that are clones of themselves). Once more, your Bible is bullshit.
-You can argue this for gold-star lesbians, but you seem to ignore that there are lesbians who do not act upon her own attraction, there are lesbians who would use men as masturbation device (it's possible to be interested, but not attracted in the abstract intrinsic conceptualized feeling(Oh, even attraction is relative to each people as people have different definitions, so it's abstract.)), and you seem to ignore that there are homoromantic females who wouldn't mind having sex with men, and there's more. So yes, there are lesbian who would actually sleep with men. Why do I have to see so many bullshit laymen that shows themselves little understanding of the sexuality topic as a whole? Do they just rely on their emotions and generalization instead of actual researches and analysis?
I was just pointing out that the Bible only appears to be against a very specific form of homosexuality, being "a man lying with a man as he would with a woman". Seeing as lesbians are women themselves, the passage doesn't apply to them.
Also, not having children (whether you're gay or not) is not the same as "death", or "taking one for the team". But that's a whole 'nother issue and not really related to the topic of homosexuality (seeing as gay couples who desire a family will make one on their own).
In fact this pandoras box is slammed wide open and it would be only a matter of time that behaviours as damaging as bestiality will be petitioned in society to be legalized and accepted. If the door of homosexuality is opened, then society will be forced to open the door of bestiality.
Slippery slope fallacy. That's just like saying that "if we make homicide illegal and abolish death penalty, then we'll have to stop killing animals for food." (On the other hand, bestiality is in its essence more similar to rape than homosexuality. Rape isn't going to be legitimized anytime soon... at least in developed world.) So, slippery slope fallacy and you got zero points while homosexuality scored one.
Even the Holy Prophet (sa)... Even His Noodliness (FSM) says that homosexuality is okay. Homosexuality: 2, you: 0.
I see that the rest of your so-called "argument" was already shredded into pieces by others.
Don't forget that nature goes by the term of 'survival of the fittest'.
And homosexuality does exactly opposite that, it cannot be considered part of that term.
All species and life in Earth reproduce, procreate, sustain a generation, and survive in the environment.
Homosexuality destroys this process, it isn't considered to be natural.
It is a mix of errors in the genetics and the corrupted practices that us people, in the society, practice every day. Homosexual behaviors are spread by influence.
Heterosexual males will molest young boys because they cannot find any women, this is because the society is unbalanced in one state.
This is what happened in Azande of Africa. They had a low population of women, the males resulted in having sex and pleasures with the young boys. These are horrid practices, you simply cannot defend this immorality.
Don't forget that nature goes by the term of 'survival of the fittest'. Yes it does.
And homosexuality does exactly opposite that, it cannot be considered part of that term. No it does not. Last time I checked, homosexuals can live just as long as heterosexuals and asexuals can unless they happen to be in an uncivilized country with islamic or overly christian rule.
All species and life in Earth reproduce, procreate, sustain a generation, and survive in the environment.
Homosexuality destroys this process, it isn't considered to be natural. Funny that homosexuality happens in the nature just about... all the time.. And since this process is apparently still going on, saying that homosexuality destroys that process is bullshit... totally off the mark.
It is a mix of errors in the genetics and the corrupted practices that us people, in the society, practice every day. Homosexual behaviors are spread by influence. It's a mix of genetic errors and especially estrogen/testosterone exposure in the womb. There is no other influence by which homosexuality is spread.
Not to mention that homosexuality is actually beneficial to the society, refer to ~staple-salad's argument.
At this point, homosexuality: 8, you: -1.
They had a low population of women, the males resulted in having sex and pleasures with the young boys. These are horrid practices, you simply cannot defend this immorality. And hererosexual guys molest small girls, too (Muhammad included. IIRC, his youngest wife was 9 years), and you actually defend this immorality. What a sick fuck you are.
I think the survival part refers to the procreation system. Survival of the gene perpetuation. Homosexuals are a dead end in this chain. But in our modern times that's not the case since there are plenty ways for that.
But the fact that it happens in nature doesn't mean that the species will keep on existing. The effects might appear later when we are 6 feet under.
Homosexuality isn't bad, in human or animal societies, but it doesn't mean it isn't a malfunction. A beneficial malfunction, but still a malfunction.
Implying homosexuals don't reproduce when there are homosexuals who have no problem getting it on with the opposite sex. Many homosexuals don't reproduce or getting it on with a member of the opposite sex because they're not interested into procreation or other reasons, but not all are like that. Generalizations, generalizations, tsk, tsk.... By the way, artificial reproduction and even frozen sperms has its set of issues and that's becoming more alerting slowly.
Homosexuality has some benefit. I know I explained this to you in another post, but it boils down to homosexuals being very beneficial for a group as a whole because they create ideal adoptive families. They also are completely capable of reproduction and reproduce by proxy by offering adoptive homes and extra care for nieces, nephews, etc. So children with gay relatives are more likely to be successful than children without gay relatives. The pervasiveness of homosexuality suggest and evolutionary benefit.
I suggest you take some classes or read actual anthropological papers before posting more about your flawed and incomplete logic.
I know I explained this to you in another post, but it boils down to homosexuals being very beneficial for a group as a whole because they create ideal adoptive families.
-Are you assuming that sexuality has to do with how well a family copes? There are so many flaws with that assumption that one can easily point to certain homosexuals that do not create ideal families.
They also are completely capable of reproduction and reproduce by proxy by offering adoptive homes and extra care for nieces, nephews, etc.
-It sounds like the argument has a problem because a lot of it has to do with resources rather than homosexuality itself. Anyone else of other sexuality can offer adoptive homes and care. Asides, sexuality has nothing to do with physical reproductive capability and there are homosexuals who don't mind reproducing heterosexually and there are homosexuals who don't act on their attraction.
"Homosexuality destroys this process, it isn't considered to be natural."
Except it totally occurs in nature. Which makes it by definition... natural.
"It is a mix of errors in the genetics and the corrupted practices that us people, in the society, practice every day."
So thát's what I forgot to do today! To get my gay on! Thanks for reminding me.
"Homosexual behaviors are spread by influence."
[CITATION NEEDED] (actually, this is redundant, as it can be applied to every sentence you wrote).
"Heterosexual males will molest young boys because they cannot find any women"
So a gay man... is a hetero man who can't get laid? And instead of raping the women he's sexually attracted to, being a hetero man and all, he goes after boys? So his inability to not get laid didn't just make him gay, it also turned him into a pedophile?
"This is what happened in Azande of Africa. They had a low population of women, the males resulted in having sex and pleasures with the young boys. These are horrid practices, you simply cannot defend this immorality."
I thought this topic was about homosexuality, not pedophilia? That's like the second time you mix those two subjects up in one post alone.
That's why the Bible says, men has corrupted themselves. Because, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither they were thankful! But, they became vain in their imaginations and their foolish heart was darkened and became evil. Professing themsevles to be wiser than God, but they became fools to those who committ suchs abominations. The have changed the glory of the uncorrutible God into an iamge made like to corruptible mana and fourfooted beast or creeping things on earth. Wherefore, God also, "gave them up" to uncleanness through the lust of their own heart and dishonour their own bodies, thus corrupting between themselves.
I'm not sure if my previous post made it clear enough, so I'll say it a different way: I don't care. If this discussion was about the Bible or included the Bible then maybe I would, but the Bible is nowhere mentioned in the OP, in my post, or in the post I replied to.
Unless you have something RELEVANT to say, just keep your goddamn mouth shut. Not every discussion needs to have your voice in it. Especially not if you have nothing of value to add.
Firstly, I'm not sure how you equate homosexuality to signing a death warrant...sure it probably will spell the end of your family line, but then again I was pretty sure we'd gotten over the bloodline thing a very very long time ago. Also I'm pretty sure homosexuals realize that their sexual habits will not produce any children. So yes, it's a measure of population control, as well as an act of mutual pleasure for those involved.....No, I'm still not sure why it's a bad thing.
Secondly, incest was technically totally ok until people realized that it caused bad mutations in the gene pool, a good reason to stop. Homosexuality doesn't have that problem because, again, no biological kids. If children being raised by homosexual parents have social difficulties it's because society as a whole has this stigma against it. Children will subconsciously avoid, and think badly of those things their parents considered strange and disgusting....at least until adolescence.
As for opening Pandora's box to fetishists and bestiality, the presence of porn has already done that, so you're a little too late.
Besides, I can admire the beauty of a man's body and I can acknowledge the beauty of a woman's body. I can't really see it the other way around, but then there's no reason not to believe that point of view exists. So I don't see what's wrong with there being some men who see things my way and some women who see things the other way.
After reading this, it's pretty clear that you're not trying to "tackle" anything here. More accurately, you're trying to find some, albeit woefully inaccurate, justification for your own biases and misguided beliefs. Your "history check" is both historically inaccurate and deeply illogical. If your primary point here is that the Greeks practiced homosexuality as a means of population control, then why did they go out and build the world's first great empire? Why purposely go out and forcibly gather more people to your society if you want to keep the numbers down? The acceptance of homosexuality by the ancient Greeks had absolutely nothing to do with population control.
Your "why not factor" is not just a slippery slope argument, but it's a lazy, dishonest one as well as being so tired and hackneyed that it's almost not worth going in to. It all boils down to a lump of insecurity without even a hint of any relationship to facts that's just looking to justify its existence by bagging on someone else. And do you know what, I wouldn't mind that half so much if you didn't try to wrap it up in a false mantle of attempting to understand or learn about homosexuality.
Such a strange coincidence that the ignorant religious individuals lack knowledge of their own fiction novel, history of homosexuality(Hell even their own religion's history). While all of the tolerant religious/non religious individuals actually know the Bible better than people who practice it. I was raised by a paranoid Christian grandmother and was forced to pray to the television during Mass. I was taught that homosexuals, African Americans, and anyone different from me was evil (Kind of contradicts the whole "forgive and befriend" mantra). Then suddenly, My Dad divorces my Mom and invites me to his new home. I get there and there's a man with my Dad; I greet the man and my Dad tells me the man is his boyfriend. I shrug, and go play Playstation 2 (when it was all the rage). And everything is alright. No bad side effects from my Dad's homosexuality. BUT, I did suffer from other Christians' "homophobia", and my Grandma even threw away my Vegeta action figure. So ya.
If the Bible was fiction, why is it, that there's so many people in the world today, that are backbiters of God, haters of God, disobedient to parents, covenant brakers and being filled with unrighteousness, envy, ungodliness, murderer, adulterer, fornications, idoleters, etc, and so on. We read this truth in the book of Romans 1:18-32. Where, "GOD GAVE THEM UP", to wickedness to fulfill the desire of their evil hearts, so that the scriptures may be fulfilled. We see today, its spreading, like wild fire all over the world. Wherefore, this is not a science fiction book. This is the time of the day of judgment, where God is fulfilling all his Words in the Bible. So, that we may believe in him........................................... For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools! ..........And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves...................Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections for even their WOMEN (bisexual) did change the natural use into that which is against nature. "And, likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; "MEN with MEN" (homosexual) working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet........And, even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient........................ ". . .Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them...Romans 1:18-32.