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December 20, 2012
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No transitional forms?

:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Dec 20, 2012  Student Writer
So I keep on getting in debates with creationists.

Besides the oh-so-stupid crocoduck theory and banana theory there is nothing else for them to go on. Besides that everything is too complex.

Therefore, they tell me that there are no transitional forms ever found. *facepalms*

If they knew anything about the Theory of Evolution (scientific theories are facts)then they would realize that EVERY SINGLE form of an organism that has ever lived is a transitional form.

Nature never reaches perfection and never will because the conditions always change. Everything is always a slight change in a direction for a certain traits.

Evolution doesn't start and then take a break before working again. It is a constant process that never ends and never will as long as there is natural reproduction.

Evolution is not a series of steps, its a slope that branches off in every which way, some paths being cut off while others continue on or even merge. THAT is evolution.
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Devious Comments

:iconpippintookoftheshire:
PippinTookoftheShire Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Hobbyist Writer
Time-has-an-end not posting Bible quotes on this thread?
0_0 OMeffingG
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:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Student Writer
I know it's shocking
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Student Digital Artist
I am a Muslim and I believe in something called Guided Evolution.
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:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2013  Student Writer
Yes I know you're a Muslim. You are the one with the newer prophet beliefs right?

And we can observe unguided evolution before our eyes, it is not necessary for a direction.
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Not new prophet beliefs, but the SAME beliefs as all the previous prophets, since Adam (as).
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:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Student Writer
What I meant was the belief in the word of the relatively newer prophet from the 19th or 20th century I think.
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:iconafter--life:
After--Life Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Student Digital Artist
True, but I think you mean 14th century.
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:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Jan 14, 2013  Student Writer
Probably I just thought I was showed a photograph. Oh well
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:iconsaidryian:
Saidryian Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Everyone please just ignore maddmatt, he's a troll.
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:iconsmkiller:
Smkiller Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Hobbyist
We figured this one out.
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:iconcandanceamy:
CandanceAmy Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
Actually nature is in perfection. Its constant change is what makes it perfect because we live in an universe that is in constant change. So if nature would stagnate it would go against the universe laws.
In my point of view the transition from chaos to order makes everything this change to acquire balance or equilibrium.

But don't try to debate with creationists. I like to associate the religious tales as how a 5 year old (that is unaware of science) would try to understand and explain how things happened.
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:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Student Writer
Yeah but a 5 year old can't dictate what is taught in schools.
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:iconcandanceamy:
CandanceAmy Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
yeah yeah but that's how they would explain how it works and tell their friends about it, no?
The indoctrinating is an adult thing.
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:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Student Writer
Yeah and its faarrrr to common
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:iconcandanceamy:
CandanceAmy Featured By Owner Jan 15, 2013
unfortunately.
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:iconxternal7:
xTernal7 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Debating with creationists? Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?

Debating with them is pretty much just like playing chess with piegon: sure, you can know all the rules you want, but the pigeon will just knock over all figures and shit on the board.

Yes, I know, it's a hopeless matter. Also, try to have creationists argue this. Warning: piegon-on-a-chessboard thing can still happen even with this.
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:iconaviscelox:
AvisCelox Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Never would have thought of that analogy. Bookmarked.
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:iconbetweenskill:
BetweenSkill Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Writer
Thank you :) hahahaha
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:iconkalinka-shadows:
Kalinka-Shadows Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012
It doesn't matter what you propose, Creationists will absolutely plug their ears and not listen because to Creationists, if you believe in Evolution, Jesus's sacrifice means nothing, so you might as well not even bother with Christianity at all. Evolution is a non-starter.

To them, this is about their religion remaining relevant and surviving. It really doesn't matter. NOTHING will convince them.
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:iconforeverteatime:
ForeverTeaTime Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Well I have found that usually people who strongly believe in creationism don't really know much about the sciences, including the Evolution Theory, they criticise.
Then when you try to explain to them how it actually goes, and what the actual evidence is, then they just seem to ignore what you're saying and repeat their old arguments.

But really, it is an useless discussion, because of several reasons:
A) Sincere creationists don't want to be convinced otherwise, they are not going to listen to what you are saying, no matter whether it makes sense or not, no matter whether you've got facts or not. They do not want to change their worldviews, so arguing with them just creates anger and frustration.
B) At this point in time, the evolution theory can't be proven for sure completely. There is still things that can be doubted, gaps in the explanation, assumptions that are used as arguments. So it isn't a fact yet, just your opinion and in my mind that makes it about just as valid as believing in a god.
C) Even if the evolution theory is true, it doesn't disprove god (which I think many people who have serious discussions with creationists defending the evolution theory want to achieve). A god could very well be the one who is continually altering species, evolutionizing them. Plus, many things in religious books have yet turned out to be not true, yet religion is still around so one more wrong won't make religion disappear either.
D) Focusing on being happy and not killing eachother might be a better way to spend your energy. Convincing people of doing that a better argument to have.
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:iconaviscelox:
AvisCelox Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
The theory of evolution isn't proven in the same way the heliocentric theory isn't proven. There is evidence for it but it cannot be 100% proved; it can, however, be disproved. This falsifiability is what seperates it from religious beliefs.

Point C is true.
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:iconaviscelox:
AvisCelox Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
In any heated argument either side can get pretty hateful, unfortunately.
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:iconforeverteatime:
ForeverTeaTime Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Well, you can't really know anything for sure, you know?
It might be that our bodies are actually 30 centimaters to the left of what we think they are, but that our brains auto-corrects that because it can't really handle thinking about the body actually being in the wall when you think you are next to it.
It might be that you are imagined by the people around you. It might be that you imaged them.
It might be that what we see as blue is actually red.
And so on.
Yet you can't spend your time continually questioning everything. You have to take somethings as the truth to not go insane and be able to function on a daily basis.

I guess my point is: Maybe it isn't a certainity that the sun circles around the earth, or that the earth circles around the sun. Maybe it isn't a certainity that we evolved, and are still evolving, alongside with all species on this planet. Maybe it isn't a certainity that there is, or isn't, a god. But in order to be able to live your life, you have to pick one of the three options on each matter: I believe this, I don't believe this or I can find peace in the fact that I don't know.
Yet, we still cannot be a 100% sure either way, so it might not be right to get nasty at each other about it.
(Unfortunately, that is apparently something that is very difficult to understand for both religious and non-religious people >.<' As atheists and believers in the evolution-theory can pretend they're better all they want, because they believe in reason and science, they can get quite hateful and unneccessarily bashful as the people they claim to be against... And that's just as wrong!)
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 23, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Evolution has nothing on creation.

There is no "evolution vs creation" and anyone claiming so, would end up destroying evolution in their process to end creation, as evolution requires a living subject already existing. No subject = no evolution.

A magical big bang from out of the blue with unknown life soup mix crashing onto this rock, just does not cut it.
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:iconmr-bananasham:
Mr-bananasham Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
the big bang is a different theory, in its entirety, from evolution.
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Student Digital Artist
As I stated, evolution and creation is not on the same subject.
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:iconxternal7:
xTernal7 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes they are in case you believe the bible. sudo make plants && sudo make animals in a single day thing contradicts evolution about as much as it can. When you add the whole "man was created from dirt" thing into the equation, you ought to clearly see that evolution and creationism are about incompatible as it gets.

FYI: Creationism in 66,6% of all cases refers to a world-was-created-in-6-days-just-like-the-bible-says hypothesis. Therefore yeah, evolution and creation are pretty much on the same subject, as evolution targets a part of the latter.
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:iconmr-bananasham:
Mr-bananasham Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
you actually never stated that, you said, and I quote, "Evolution has nothing on creation." I find it funny though that you believe the scientific theory is just magic, when in fact that is how genesis worked, god spoke, bang it happened. also there are other big bang theories, not just the old, out of nothing theory, there is the contracting and expanding theory, and my favorite the multiverse theory. which both hypothesise a beginning to our universe, but a continuous and infite existence.
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Student Digital Artist
You do comprehend what sound waves does on matter, right?
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:iconmr-bananasham:
Mr-bananasham Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012
but did god not have to create sound? or at least air to make it, the fact is that with nothing in the universe aside from him, there is no possible way he could have even spoken. So no matter what soundwaves can do to matter, there is no possible way he could have just created the universe unless he just used magic (which does not exist).
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Same as what science claims is the same as what happens with God, as God is of nature, not magic.

I do not claim that God is magical, perhaps at times "unknown science", but not magical.
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:iconmr-bananasham:
Mr-bananasham Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
He created matter, you cannot just create information in the universe, it just is, the only way he could is with magic, which again, does not exist. Also it is not possible to necessarily disprove the existence of god, but nor can you prove it, there is no scientific evidence for him, and so one cannot just claim he exists, because then that person has the burden of proof.
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(1 Reply)
:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Professional General Artist
I find it very weird that you claim to be a pantheist, considering that there is no reason why pantheism should contradict the scientific account of things.
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Pantheists go by what they observe in their environment.

I have observed a lot in my time, that defies what science knows.
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:iconm-j-gagne:
M-J-Gagne Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Like what? If there is one thing that science has showed us its that how we perceive reality can be quite deceiving. Based on our observations alone, the world would appear to be flat until you actually do the experiment and find out that it isn't. Common sense perceptions of the world are often wrong, as are conclusions based only on observation rather than experimentation.
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Jan 21, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Experimentation works best for "repeatable" events, which does not mean with single events, that it makes them not real.
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:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Professional General Artist
I think that's your own approach, not necessarily the approach of all pantheists.
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Student Digital Artist
True enough, not all atheists are the same, not all theists are the same, and so on.

I never figured on all other Pantheists to have the same view as myself.
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:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Professional General Artist
I lean toward pantheism or panentheism myself, and I don't really have a problem with the Big Bang theory. The universe had to be born somehow. :shrug:
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Student Digital Artist
I have no problem with big bang, it is the abuse of using it magically out of nowhere to get to the beloved evolution and the slacker mentality of claiming it was done with nothing behind it, which pisses me off.
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:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Professional General Artist
Maybe something, maybe nothing. Within science one really can't say one way or the other.
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:iconkeydan:
Keydan Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012
You don't know what a big bang is, don't you?
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Sure I do, it is the creation of the universe.
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:iconkeydan:
Keydan Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
So why act as if you don't?
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:icondragonsnapalm:
DragonsNapalm Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
I think the term "formation" is a bit more succinct, if you ask me.
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:iconkingstephenarthur:
KingStephenArthur Featured By Owner Dec 26, 2012  Student Photographer
speaking things into existence is not magic though? do you really think someone spoke everything into existence? you actually think that sounds logical?
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 27, 2012  Student Digital Artist
You take energy, you layer it into matter, then you use sound waves to manipulate it into form. I see no problem with it.

Unless you are talking about just saying cow and magically having a cow fall from out of the sky. Then I have a problem with it.
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:iconkingstephenarthur:
KingStephenArthur Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Student Photographer
is that not what god did? "let there be light" and then there was light... logical inconsistency much? :)
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:iconwesmeadow:
Wesmeadow Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Let there be light = Let there be God.

It becomes a play on subject with word placement or simple logic.
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:iconkingstephenarthur:
KingStephenArthur Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Student Photographer
either way. does it say how god created things? it seems to me like he simply spoke them into existence.
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