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December 11, 2012
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Simulacrum - the internet - ego death

:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Student Photographer
Is it possible to experience ego death on the internet?

We have all of these avatars, and you are so far from your true persona on these anti-social networks and forums etcetera. There is all these second life virtual reality type things.

I have been spending some time in this place called X radio:
[link]

And people there keep switching their avatars and sometimes its almost as if you realise that you are just part of a hive mind. A kind of ego death play, play within the play. Does that make sense?

It's similar to the Anonymous movement I suppose.

Are we moving towards a total ego death, like the technological singularity or something?
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Devious Comments

:iconarcolm:
Arcolm Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012
Ummm i have to dissagree with the whole "its sort of like the anon movement" sence its evolved into a more politcal stance than anything else. Sure it had its roots in online culture on 4chan. But what about LULz sec or some of the other "trollish" subcultures?

If anything people use the intenet to escape from the world to an extent. And sometimes blow off steam(witch i'm not to fond of haters doing it somtimes) or just find a common ground to talk about like i'm doing now for you. Mind blowing isn't it? :rofl:
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Photographer
fair enough
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:iconalzebetha:
alzebetha Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
Also, statistics show that people tending towards many RL friends tend towards having many VL friends, and vice versa, though there may be some changed interactions the medium does not define the actor, its other actors that define them.

Interesting you mention Anonymous, because if anything, anonymous agents acting with others anonymously could go into that direction.

oh and I figure someone already stated my answer more or less, but I like having a non dumb question unrelated to religion for a change.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Student Photographer
Well put.
It's not like a hive mind will just be born over night. But the internet is undoubtedly one rung up the ladder.
Ultimately it will be humans decision to participate or not.
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:iconalzebetha:
alzebetha Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012
Humans aren't set up to be hive minded. you can tell by all the arguing going on everywhere on the internet.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Student Photographer
They are more likely to be parasites in some form of higher consciousness..
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:iconalzebetha:
alzebetha Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012
You've watched too much sci fi.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Student Photographer
Im not sayin' it was aliens.... But ....
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student Photographer
..it was aliens
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Student Photographer
Or has sci-fi watched too much us?
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Student Photographer
Actually that's a scary thought. I may just be onto something.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Student Photographer
lol. Thats true
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:iconsvataben:
Svataben Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
"We have all of these avatars, and you are so far from your true persona on these anti-social networks and forums etcetera."
That's one hell of an assumption. Wrong too.
I could argue that we are often more truly ourselves on the internet, because it is less restrained than most irl situations.

The entire premiss for your post is faulty.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Student Photographer
Ok sorry.

Just a thought.
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:iconsvataben:
Svataben Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
No need to apologize. :)
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Student Photographer
Have you spent any time in that place though?

Weird stuff happens there, I swear to god, its like being on drugs.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 13, 2012  Student Photographer
Weiiiird stuff.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 14, 2012  Student Photographer
pretty fuckin weird
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
having had a taste of ego-death, i'd say no. as for the hive-mind stuff, that goes on with or without active participation in it. that is to say, people with egos intact create and participate in hive-mind activities, often with no awareness of it.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Photographer
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
ffffffuck. i feel like i just got sucked into a wormhole.

i tried googling some of the art pieces (which are dated from the 70s) to no avail. that's damn odd...
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Photographer
Its gotta be a hoax. But an insanely crafted one.
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
oh wait, that false-prophet site randomly redirects you to stuff. i thought the eht-namuh site was the same as false-prophet, but the latter redirected me to the former...

i wonder how a redirecting site is related to what facerabies was saying about a "satire" magazine, if at all?
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 16, 2012  Student Photographer
I don't know. I fucking hate him.
One minute he is going on about the conspiracy and the next minute he says he is working for them. I want to know what he knows that I dont know.

Also. Check out this thread on 4chan:
[link]
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
it's a damn shame that thread got derailed...

the passwords didn't work out for me beyond 'level2'. not sure what's going on.

however, the references to "The Book of Loki" got me thinking. there's a book in the Poetic Edda that deals specifically with Loki, called the Lokasenna. i kind of doubt it has anything to do with this, but i'll give it a read and see if i come up with anything.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 17, 2012  Student Photographer
I don't know if you saw in the thread. But supposedly these guys know something more about all this:

[link]

I am pretty sure now it is just a big ARG or some kind of publicity stunt:
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(1 Reply)
:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
did that site just come up recently? because it looks like a site that's been around for a while...

after looking for a sig in some of the art, i determined the artist's name is David Denison. searching on that name and one of the painting names led me here: [link]

i'll probably note you with the rest of my observations when i've had more time to read and process...
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Student Photographer
Yeah.
But if we are participate in hive mind activities.

Is this larger mind as true and organic creature as a living creature. Is that a form of sentient AI?
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
ahhh, interesting notion! you mean the internet hive minds acting like AIs, or in general?
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Student Photographer
I have no idea what I mean.

Organisms are made up of all sorts of inidividual creatures right? Bacteria, etcetera, cells all evolved from single celled organisms.

So couldn't by this logic human life evolve the same way. Form these conglomerate creatures?
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
ahh, well. where do i start...

there is the theory of Gaia - that the entire planet is a living organism with its own consciousness, of which we are merely small parts. that relates to this.

hive-minds (the ones we're discussing) operate similarly, but on a smaller scale. there's a cord of common consciousness running through it, to which all the individual consciousnesses contribute and share in. the whole can be said to act in a way that is independent of the individual parts, much like individual consciousness acts in a way independent of the individual neurons in the brain. consciousness, or hive-consciousness, is an emergent property of a complex system (bullet-magnet will kill me for saying that... :lol:).

i've often wondered about AIs and how we might generate them. ultimately you'll see them emerge, i think, in a sufficiently complicated system. i don't know if we're quite there, yet, but we are approaching it quickly.

another thing i've thought about is how the internet, which is based on electromagnetic radation (much like a Gaian mind would be), could possibly be a carrier for a large (even hive) consciousness simply by virtue of it existing. that or it tying into and being utilized by the Gaian mind, possibly in a more conscious, more aware fashion.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Student Photographer
Wow.
You nailed it.
I'm speechless.
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:iconfacerabies:
FaceRabies Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
Hey. Are you working for Frank now?
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 15, 2012  Student Photographer
Are you working for Frank. wtf
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Student Photographer
What? No! What the fuck do you mean?
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(1 Reply)
:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
Freudian psychology is bullshit.
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
I would be careful with that. We have tried for over a goddamn century to prove that bastard wrong on a number of things and we are having serious difficulty in managing to do anything but slightly mofify the psychoanalytical model to fit the science. For example the Oedipus Complex is a very evidently existing phenomenon. Whether or not it`s effects are quite as necessary or important as freud said is not quite so supported, but you can betcha that 5 year old girl has issues with mum about dad.
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
that doesn't mean ego-death is bullshit.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
But my alarm bells start ringing when I hear his terminology
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:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
the term ego sort of transcended his work, as subsequently did ego-death.
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
I guess I find all psychology to be suspicious. My background is in the hard sciences, and I've grown used to particular standards of evidence and modelling which psychology lacks.
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Permission to ask what more specifically?
Seen as I am an immunologist/microbiologist and I find little in cognitive psychology lacking, considering what they have to work with.
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:iconsaintartaud:
saintartaud Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Professional General Artist
Yeah, I would say that cognitive psychology and behaviorism are two particular areas that have worked hard to improve the science of psychology.

I assume he has issues with most schools of psychoanalysis.
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Behaviorism... Was a little too restrictive. Even simplifying.

Even in most schools of psychoanalysis, they aren`t incredibly bad compared with some... Philosophical domains that try and come under the hood of psychology. The most extreme being supporters of various noetic sciences.
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(1 Reply)
:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
same with a lot of branches of psychology (i was a behaviorist, e.g.). you're essentially dealing with a black box scenario. you can look at the inputs and outputs in a very scientific manner, making a theory or model of what goes on inside the box.
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:icontotally-dead:
Totally-dead Featured By Owner Dec 12, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Behaviorism was a little too simplified in it`s view, compared with the complexity of their subject. On the other hand one has to applaud them for dragging a true scientific methodology and rigour into certain types of psychology, if I remember.
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(1 Reply)
:iconskulkey:
skulkey Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Professional Digital Artist
if you want to meet ego-death, i suggest about 250 micrograms of LSD. ;)
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
Uh, pass.
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:icontheotherlonegunman:
TheotherLoneGunman Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012  Student Photographer
So your a jungian?
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:iconbullet-magnet:
Bullet-Magnet Featured By Owner Dec 11, 2012
No.
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