Tiger's Rant: About Gay/homo and all that sex stuff
Aloha!
I usually don't post in Forums but since I have been doing quite some thinking I decided to share my two cents. Take it for what it is worth. I am also curious to see how people will respond.
A few things to note:
1-This is my own opinion. It will differ from yours.
2-I don't answer to flamers
3-This is a rant so I jump all over the place sometimes
4-This is not a post only on homosexuality but on sexuality in general
5-This is a very long post.
So as you may have guessed, I have been thinking about the whole Gay/homosexual scene and the heavy weight the US culture (were I live) has given to sexuality. As you may be aware (or not) there is an ongoing battle in the US wether to approve homosexual lifestyles as part of a healthy and acceptable lifestyle of american society (mainly by approving gay marriage).
When it comes to Homosexuality in general, it is too often boiled down to black and white. You're either for or against, you either love it or hate it. I think this is the wrong approach and unfortunetly the default approach we human beings always take towards any type of debate.
On a personal level, here is what I have to say about the subject:
I, as my own person with my own brain, do not agree with a homosexual lifestyle. That said, I am not homophobic. Homophobia is defined as "fear of homosexuals". Culturally it is also used as "hatred for homosxuals" which sometimes leads to violence. I you tell me you are homosexual, I will not flee from you, I will not insult you and I will not stab you to death. You exist wether I like it or not and I got over it and I move on with life. I will treat you with respect and love because you are first of all a human being. And that is what is most important. I like chocolate, you don't. So what?
This is what I probably would respond if you came out of the blue and told me you were gay: "Um... I have a hard time understanding how the knowledge of your preference to having sex with people of the same gender was vital to our friendship. I would actually label that the "Too much information" column. Do you see me telling people I want to have sex with a man?"
Granted it is assumed by society that as a woman I would share my sexual experiences with a man. However let me expand on my comment.
You are not defined by your sexuality! If you think that your preference in what gender you want to share your bed with is the most important defining factor of your life then you are doing it wrong (to put it in a nutshell). Sex is just a physical part of your body that happens to be there for two reasons:
-Practical reason: so that the human race doesn't go exctinct from the planet (babies!)
-Other reason: a type of pleasure (because really there is a limited amount of things you can do with sex)
Who you are is not defined by your genitals or who you sleep with. I fact sex is optional (no shame in being a virgin. Welcome to the club!) So who are you? That is a tough question to answer. Here's a question that can help: what do you own?
Here's an example: I am an adult who still has a childish heart because I want to see the good in this world. That is probably why I am an artist and why I like cartoons. I own my art and my art is cartoony and childish, inocent and fun and I dream like a little kid. I am a little person looking at the world in wonder and wishes that the boogie man would go away (don't you love metaphors?).
See? The fact that I have a vagina does not determine who I am. Sure it affected how my parents raised me (barbies instead of legos... I still snatched my brother's legos) but I don't become so obsesed with it that I have an identity crisis.
To get back on track what I am trying to say is that in life you don't really know who you are until you're old and gray (sometimes not even fully then either). When you are a kid you are growing up into something. You don't realize that sexuality is a part of you until puberty (seriously do you see 6 year olds asking themselves if they are gay or not). I mean I didn't realize it until 12 (and even then I didn't want to worry about it. Why would I want to at that age? I had more important stuff to do like pestering my brother and climbing trees).
And this comes to my next point. Yes we should teach kids to share and love others but do we need to teach them about the normalicy of having two women or two men sharing a bed? No. First of all because they haven't discovered that sex is part of them, and second of all because you are stepping onto the parents' ground: moral education.
Homosexual marriage is a moral and civil issue, general homosexuality is a moral issue (this next paragraph is a reaction to children's literature and programs geared towards teaching gay lifestyles). The tradition has been to let the parents teach their kids what is morally right and morally wrong (wether they do a good job at it or not is a whole other story). If you are a parent and you are forced to let someone else teach your kids something that is morally right when you believe it is morally wromg would that make you a happy camper? Probably not. I am not saying it's okay for parents to tell their kids to hate people, what I am saying is that it is okay for parents to teach their kids about different viewpoints and why they believe a certain way (basically teaching their kids not to be sheep but critical thinkers).
So now that I have gone around the subject a good bit I am going to back track a little. I will expand on why I do not agree with homosexual lifestyles (remember I don't hate them I just wouldn't live like that or encourage anyone else to but I still treat people like people).
What does it tell me when you are gay. Well as a (thought to be witty) poster put it "Gender isn't here (pointing to genitals), it's here (pointing to brain)". What that tells me is that there is a confusion somewhere between your brain and your physical appearance that make it so the two don't match properly. If your brain is telling you that you are a male but your body is clearly female to me that signals a problem. I would like to find out why ("born this way" doesn't cut it. Scientist have tried to see if it is genetic and nothing so far. Besides it's a stupid argument because it could be used for anything. "Why did you cut your sister's hair" "O but I was born this way"). So in a sense I do not find it to be a natural thing. And for the animal argument (that animals are gay too): some animals have the ability to switch sexes and others get confused (a friend of mine explained to me, after witnessing a stalion trying to hump another stalion, that if a male horse was neutered to early they would mistakenly identify each other for females...). And animals never have commited relationships (do you see mr and mrs cheetah walking down the isle covered in rose petals while pachebel's canon is played on the organ? Didn't think so...) and they don't do it for fun, they do it for survival.
Now don't get me wrong, homosexual relationships have been around for a long time (about as long as people figured out they could have sex). It has just never been forced into a pillar of society as it is today. Marriage is a pillar of american society. It has always been a crumbling pillar because it was first of all a religious institution. The only thing that matters to the government wether you are married or not is taxes (so you are better off not being officially married). Regarding religion, it has to do with the purpose of marriage. In our modern era we live in the illusion that "love" is a happy with pink roses and all kinds of wonderful things. The worst part is that love is equated with sex. Wake up! Love isn't about sex. In fact sex is the least important thing when it comes to love. True love happens when you've gone through the dirt of life with someone. Love takes commitment and hard work. It doesn't just happen. If all you are looking for in marriage or a relationship is a sexual experience then do it the fast way and be a prostitute (or get drunk and go to a random party where there are other drunk people). Love and marriage are not for sex, they are for people who truly care about each other and who share an intimate bond (the rest is just hormones).
Now I'm getting a little off track but I really wanted to share that. The problem with accepting homosexual marriage as marriage is that too many people's moral compasses are getting and already confused. What I mean by that is that once we allow homosexual marriage to be recognized, what will stop anyone from marrying anyone or anything else? Granted marriage is already pretty wacky with people marrying cardboard cut outs of celebrities or their reflections (which is why I think marriage should just be redefined anyway... I mean why should mormons be allowed to have x number of wives? isn't that illegal?). Also marriage has been at the center of the family (if the government is raising your kids, you're doing it wrong). There's always been a mom and a dad that have had two different functions in a child's life. So what happends when a child has two moms or two dads. Families are already messed up with divorce and pregnancies out of wedlock and whatnot. So how is this going to help? How will it shape society in the future? The research is way too slim to answer that unfortunately.
There is still a lot about the human psychy that we don't know and I think that we are rushing into this to quick without having a resonable discussion (another reason I say this is because in the latest TIME issue there was an article about mental disorders. Sexual disorders are no longer considered a mental disorder. Anyone else see a big wooping problem coming our way?). In addition I don't think we are helping ourselves by letting sex be the main theme in almost all of our media (Do you really need to listen to a naked female singer sing about having sex with her boyfriend? Here's the Batman soundtrack for some variety).
WARNING: the next paragraph involve a discusion about christiannity. You can skip this part if you want.
Finally, and there is good reason I have left this for the end, I do not believe it is God's design. What God? Well I believe in an infinite being that created humankind. Humankind thought it was better than God and that's how we messed things up. God created male and female to keep each other company and eventually populate the earth (you'll notice the first reason it is mentionned in Genesis that God gave Adam Eve was because Adam was lonely). When it comes to my own studies I have not found yet evidence of God's stamp of approval on gay relationships. If He did I think it would be a lot more evident than all the reading into scriptures some people have done (I'm sorry but Jonathan and David are not gay. I mean have you ever had to save your best friend's life? How would of you reacted when you heard your best friend had been killed? David and Batsheba anyone?). I believe that sin has twisted God's purpose of sexuality.
-----End of religious part
Well I'm pretty much coming to the end of my rant. Sure I have a little more thinking to do but I'd like to get some feedback.
When it comes to my own love life I had a decision to make. Yup I've had homosexual dsires towards some other women but I decided I didn't want to have relationships with them that way. It was much more fun to be friends and run around playing freeze tag. In fact I decided that I wanted to be single (and virgin) because I can do a lot more and have a lot more control over my decisions. Life has so much more to offer. The only way my situation would change is if an awesome man crossed my path. I'm already a girl, why would I want to live with another of me?
Well I'll leave the discussion up to the internet now that I've thrown my two cents out there. Not that I expect everyone to be civilized (this is the internet after all) but I'm sure there will be people with an interesting opinion.
I usually don't post in Forums but since I have been doing quite some thinking I decided to share my two cents. Take it for what it is worth. I am also curious to see how people will respond.
A few things to note:
1-This is my own opinion. It will differ from yours.
2-I don't answer to flamers
3-This is a rant so I jump all over the place sometimes
4-This is not a post only on homosexuality but on sexuality in general
5-This is a very long post.
So as you may have guessed, I have been thinking about the whole Gay/homosexual scene and the heavy weight the US culture (were I live) has given to sexuality. As you may be aware (or not) there is an ongoing battle in the US wether to approve homosexual lifestyles as part of a healthy and acceptable lifestyle of american society (mainly by approving gay marriage).
When it comes to Homosexuality in general, it is too often boiled down to black and white. You're either for or against, you either love it or hate it. I think this is the wrong approach and unfortunetly the default approach we human beings always take towards any type of debate.
On a personal level, here is what I have to say about the subject:
I, as my own person with my own brain, do not agree with a homosexual lifestyle. That said, I am not homophobic. Homophobia is defined as "fear of homosexuals". Culturally it is also used as "hatred for homosxuals" which sometimes leads to violence. I you tell me you are homosexual, I will not flee from you, I will not insult you and I will not stab you to death. You exist wether I like it or not and I got over it and I move on with life. I will treat you with respect and love because you are first of all a human being. And that is what is most important. I like chocolate, you don't. So what?
This is what I probably would respond if you came out of the blue and told me you were gay: "Um... I have a hard time understanding how the knowledge of your preference to having sex with people of the same gender was vital to our friendship. I would actually label that the "Too much information" column. Do you see me telling people I want to have sex with a man?"
Granted it is assumed by society that as a woman I would share my sexual experiences with a man. However let me expand on my comment.
You are not defined by your sexuality! If you think that your preference in what gender you want to share your bed with is the most important defining factor of your life then you are doing it wrong (to put it in a nutshell). Sex is just a physical part of your body that happens to be there for two reasons:
-Practical reason: so that the human race doesn't go exctinct from the planet (babies!)
-Other reason: a type of pleasure (because really there is a limited amount of things you can do with sex)
Who you are is not defined by your genitals or who you sleep with. I fact sex is optional (no shame in being a virgin. Welcome to the club!) So who are you? That is a tough question to answer. Here's a question that can help: what do you own?
Here's an example: I am an adult who still has a childish heart because I want to see the good in this world. That is probably why I am an artist and why I like cartoons. I own my art and my art is cartoony and childish, inocent and fun and I dream like a little kid. I am a little person looking at the world in wonder and wishes that the boogie man would go away (don't you love metaphors?).
See? The fact that I have a vagina does not determine who I am. Sure it affected how my parents raised me (barbies instead of legos... I still snatched my brother's legos) but I don't become so obsesed with it that I have an identity crisis.
To get back on track what I am trying to say is that in life you don't really know who you are until you're old and gray (sometimes not even fully then either). When you are a kid you are growing up into something. You don't realize that sexuality is a part of you until puberty (seriously do you see 6 year olds asking themselves if they are gay or not). I mean I didn't realize it until 12 (and even then I didn't want to worry about it. Why would I want to at that age? I had more important stuff to do like pestering my brother and climbing trees).
And this comes to my next point. Yes we should teach kids to share and love others but do we need to teach them about the normalicy of having two women or two men sharing a bed? No. First of all because they haven't discovered that sex is part of them, and second of all because you are stepping onto the parents' ground: moral education.
Homosexual marriage is a moral and civil issue, general homosexuality is a moral issue (this next paragraph is a reaction to children's literature and programs geared towards teaching gay lifestyles). The tradition has been to let the parents teach their kids what is morally right and morally wrong (wether they do a good job at it or not is a whole other story). If you are a parent and you are forced to let someone else teach your kids something that is morally right when you believe it is morally wromg would that make you a happy camper? Probably not. I am not saying it's okay for parents to tell their kids to hate people, what I am saying is that it is okay for parents to teach their kids about different viewpoints and why they believe a certain way (basically teaching their kids not to be sheep but critical thinkers).
So now that I have gone around the subject a good bit I am going to back track a little. I will expand on why I do not agree with homosexual lifestyles (remember I don't hate them I just wouldn't live like that or encourage anyone else to but I still treat people like people).
What does it tell me when you are gay. Well as a (thought to be witty) poster put it "Gender isn't here (pointing to genitals), it's here (pointing to brain)". What that tells me is that there is a confusion somewhere between your brain and your physical appearance that make it so the two don't match properly. If your brain is telling you that you are a male but your body is clearly female to me that signals a problem. I would like to find out why ("born this way" doesn't cut it. Scientist have tried to see if it is genetic and nothing so far. Besides it's a stupid argument because it could be used for anything. "Why did you cut your sister's hair" "O but I was born this way"). So in a sense I do not find it to be a natural thing. And for the animal argument (that animals are gay too): some animals have the ability to switch sexes and others get confused (a friend of mine explained to me, after witnessing a stalion trying to hump another stalion, that if a male horse was neutered to early they would mistakenly identify each other for females...). And animals never have commited relationships (do you see mr and mrs cheetah walking down the isle covered in rose petals while pachebel's canon is played on the organ? Didn't think so...) and they don't do it for fun, they do it for survival.
Now don't get me wrong, homosexual relationships have been around for a long time (about as long as people figured out they could have sex). It has just never been forced into a pillar of society as it is today. Marriage is a pillar of american society. It has always been a crumbling pillar because it was first of all a religious institution. The only thing that matters to the government wether you are married or not is taxes (so you are better off not being officially married). Regarding religion, it has to do with the purpose of marriage. In our modern era we live in the illusion that "love" is a happy with pink roses and all kinds of wonderful things. The worst part is that love is equated with sex. Wake up! Love isn't about sex. In fact sex is the least important thing when it comes to love. True love happens when you've gone through the dirt of life with someone. Love takes commitment and hard work. It doesn't just happen. If all you are looking for in marriage or a relationship is a sexual experience then do it the fast way and be a prostitute (or get drunk and go to a random party where there are other drunk people). Love and marriage are not for sex, they are for people who truly care about each other and who share an intimate bond (the rest is just hormones).
Now I'm getting a little off track but I really wanted to share that. The problem with accepting homosexual marriage as marriage is that too many people's moral compasses are getting and already confused. What I mean by that is that once we allow homosexual marriage to be recognized, what will stop anyone from marrying anyone or anything else? Granted marriage is already pretty wacky with people marrying cardboard cut outs of celebrities or their reflections (which is why I think marriage should just be redefined anyway... I mean why should mormons be allowed to have x number of wives? isn't that illegal?). Also marriage has been at the center of the family (if the government is raising your kids, you're doing it wrong). There's always been a mom and a dad that have had two different functions in a child's life. So what happends when a child has two moms or two dads. Families are already messed up with divorce and pregnancies out of wedlock and whatnot. So how is this going to help? How will it shape society in the future? The research is way too slim to answer that unfortunately.
There is still a lot about the human psychy that we don't know and I think that we are rushing into this to quick without having a resonable discussion (another reason I say this is because in the latest TIME issue there was an article about mental disorders. Sexual disorders are no longer considered a mental disorder. Anyone else see a big wooping problem coming our way?). In addition I don't think we are helping ourselves by letting sex be the main theme in almost all of our media (Do you really need to listen to a naked female singer sing about having sex with her boyfriend? Here's the Batman soundtrack for some variety).
WARNING: the next paragraph involve a discusion about christiannity. You can skip this part if you want.
Finally, and there is good reason I have left this for the end, I do not believe it is God's design. What God? Well I believe in an infinite being that created humankind. Humankind thought it was better than God and that's how we messed things up. God created male and female to keep each other company and eventually populate the earth (you'll notice the first reason it is mentionned in Genesis that God gave Adam Eve was because Adam was lonely). When it comes to my own studies I have not found yet evidence of God's stamp of approval on gay relationships. If He did I think it would be a lot more evident than all the reading into scriptures some people have done (I'm sorry but Jonathan and David are not gay. I mean have you ever had to save your best friend's life? How would of you reacted when you heard your best friend had been killed? David and Batsheba anyone?). I believe that sin has twisted God's purpose of sexuality.
-----End of religious part
Well I'm pretty much coming to the end of my rant. Sure I have a little more thinking to do but I'd like to get some feedback.
When it comes to my own love life I had a decision to make. Yup I've had homosexual dsires towards some other women but I decided I didn't want to have relationships with them that way. It was much more fun to be friends and run around playing freeze tag. In fact I decided that I wanted to be single (and virgin) because I can do a lot more and have a lot more control over my decisions. Life has so much more to offer. The only way my situation would change is if an awesome man crossed my path. I'm already a girl, why would I want to live with another of me?
Well I'll leave the discussion up to the internet now that I've thrown my two cents out there. Not that I expect everyone to be civilized (this is the internet after all) but I'm sure there will be people with an interesting opinion.
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Locked by OP's request.
Your two cents would have a lot more weight if you looked into what you were talking about before you posted your opinions.
No one is defined by their sexuality. No one is claiming to be defined by their sexuality. The homosexual community merely wants their basic, supposedly unalienable human rights, which the heterosexual majority has denied for a very long time.
Sexuality is not a "lifestyle." Not in the sense you use it. It's not a choice. It's as sexual identity, the same as a heterosexual orientation is. Claiming you "disagree with it" is the same as saying you "disagree with the African American lifestyle" because you don't like urban culture or rap.
Transgender =/= homosexuality. A homosexual man does not feel like a woman, he feels like a man who is sexually and romantically orientated towards men. A transgender man isn't homosexual-- he's attracted to the opposite sex, just happens to have the "wrong" biological sex in his own body. (Though some transgender people are homosexual).
Many animals do mate for life. Actually. And the species that homosexuality has been most documented in are not hermaphrodites. We're talking over 1,500 species, including primates, birds, dolphins, bison, and elephants.
Marriage is not about taxes. Aside from emotional desires, marriage makes insurance, hospital visitation rights, sharing finances, signing leases and taking out bank accounts and credit cards, and almost everything legal a lot easier, if not simply possible.
Funny, I just read an article about how the stagnant view of the nuclear family and its gender roles leads to homophobia and heterosexism. Guess that was just proved right. So what if a family has two moms or two dads? Honestly, so what? Please explain how a gay couple will reshape our future, because I'm having a hard time figuring that bit out.
And can you also tell me how you know so much about God? Because I'm pretty sure God works in mysterious ways, and just because you "haven't yet found evidence of God's stamp of approval on gay relationships..." Seriously? I haven't found God's stamp of approval on you, either.
No one is defined by their sexuality. No one is claiming to be defined by their sexuality. The homosexual community merely wants their basic, supposedly unalienable human rights, which the heterosexual majority has denied for a very long time.
Sexuality is not a "lifestyle." Not in the sense you use it. It's not a choice. It's as sexual identity, the same as a heterosexual orientation is. Claiming you "disagree with it" is the same as saying you "disagree with the African American lifestyle" because you don't like urban culture or rap.
Transgender =/= homosexuality. A homosexual man does not feel like a woman, he feels like a man who is sexually and romantically orientated towards men. A transgender man isn't homosexual-- he's attracted to the opposite sex, just happens to have the "wrong" biological sex in his own body. (Though some transgender people are homosexual).
Many animals do mate for life. Actually. And the species that homosexuality has been most documented in are not hermaphrodites. We're talking over 1,500 species, including primates, birds, dolphins, bison, and elephants.
Marriage is not about taxes. Aside from emotional desires, marriage makes insurance, hospital visitation rights, sharing finances, signing leases and taking out bank accounts and credit cards, and almost everything legal a lot easier, if not simply possible.
Funny, I just read an article about how the stagnant view of the nuclear family and its gender roles leads to homophobia and heterosexism. Guess that was just proved right. So what if a family has two moms or two dads? Honestly, so what? Please explain how a gay couple will reshape our future, because I'm having a hard time figuring that bit out.
And can you also tell me how you know so much about God? Because I'm pretty sure God works in mysterious ways, and just because you "haven't yet found evidence of God's stamp of approval on gay relationships..." Seriously? I haven't found God's stamp of approval on you, either.
I expected moar porn examples.
p.s. you're an idiot for getting the god created manking/mankind created god the wrong way around.
p.s. you're an idiot for getting the god created manking/mankind created god the wrong way around.
If gays learned to keep their mouths shut they wouldnt have half the problems they perceive themselves to have,
That's a brilliant idea. Only instead of gays, Christians should learn to keep their mouths shut. That way the rest of us don't have to worry about doing things that Chirstians don't like.
And if you kept your mouth shut, you wouldn't have half the flames coming towards you.
...Define "homosexual lifestyle".
In Islam,
We don't think being a homosexual is wrong, but committing the acts of homosexuality is what is sinful.
We don't think being a homosexual is wrong, but committing the acts of homosexuality is what is sinful.
i find christians who treat gays differently to be quite distasteful. our lord jesus christ taught about love and treating others as you would treat yourself, that includes all men and women of all walks of life. walk with christ brah.
I don't treat gays differently I don't agree with the lifestyle is all. No human being should be made fun of, beating, or murdered or whatever you consider "treated differently". In the end we are all sinners.
true
So what's the point of making a thread if your never going to reply to anyone?
Easy, reply to the people who agree or are indifferent.
A-This is throw up from a very frustrating night (thread will be locked soon). I was kind of angry and was wondering if anyone else felt my frustration (one person did). I really thought "two cents", "rant" and "long post" would of tipped people off...
B-Do you think I will be changing anyone's opinion with this kind of post? Nope. I'm tired of hearing third hand information so I'm doing some serious research on the subject (I'm hoping to post an educated rant sometime within the next month so that people realize I'm not a total jerk just because I disagree with something).
C-Granted, now that I've calmed down, this probably should of never been posted in the first place.
B-Do you think I will be changing anyone's opinion with this kind of post? Nope. I'm tired of hearing third hand information so I'm doing some serious research on the subject (I'm hoping to post an educated rant sometime within the next month so that people realize I'm not a total jerk just because I disagree with something).
C-Granted, now that I've calmed down, this probably should of never been posted in the first place.
Angry about gay couples wanting something that doesn't affect you or anyone else except for them?
Sounds reasonable.
Sounds reasonable.
The point of a forum thread is to provoke discussion, so if you don't intend on discussing there's little to no point, for future reference.
And on a side note, the girl that agreedx with you isn't exactly the brightest crayon in the box, so her agreeing with you is about as victorious as getting a sea sponge to agree with you.
And on a side note, the girl that agreedx with you isn't exactly the brightest crayon in the box, so her agreeing with you is about as victorious as getting a sea sponge to agree with you.
Discussion doesn't only involve me. Anyway the post probably belongs in the "complain section" by now. Thinking about it I'm surprised it's still not locked. As for the sea sponge, who says it's a victory? I surely don't. I was just making the observation that someone "agreed" with my frustration. I pretty much predicted everyone's else's post and understand why they replied that way (after I got all of that throw up of a post off my chest).
Point noted, let's grow up and move on with life.
Point noted, let's grow up and move on with life.
Don't start a debate or thread and not even bother to reply civil and mature with people that don't agree with you. If you wrote this under frustration then that implies you know your view might not be at all true, its based on frustration that blind logic and reasoning.
... I think that the complaints section would have been rather worse.
I'll keep that in mind. I've never actually been in that part of the forum... probably a good thing.
Well if things had really gone south a few may have migrated to your page, but over such a subject I doubt it. They would have just mostly said the same stuff here a lot more... harshly, or just trolled you.
... If he could get a sea sponge to agree with him then he has managed a feat that no rational being should be capable of.
I was scrolling down to search for the teal deer lol xD
Love is not sex. Well duh.
And homosexuals aren't the only ones who do sex for pleasure.. straight people do it too, but I don't see anyone complaining about it.
Love is not sex. Well duh.
And homosexuals aren't the only ones who do sex for pleasure.. straight people do it too, but I don't see anyone complaining about it.